where is the evidence for alien visitation?
- Thread starter mars13
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Why?
What about presenting your evidence instead?
Because you have none?
You are not presenting evidence because you have none?
(that is a question and insinuation)
(that is a question and insinuation)
Puhutko suomea?
So there is no evidence of aliens visiting the planet earth?
At least nothing besides stories.
At least nothing besides stories.
First of all, duendy, you were warned by the moderator to stop posting that way, with the huge quotes smattered with one-line responses amongst them, so fucking stop it already. It's hard to follow and annoying as hell. Learn how to respond normally.
Why? Because I'd want evidence beyond their story? Because I'd want an artifact from the ship they were one during this abduction? Because I'd want something more than a sob story?
What constitutes open minded research? If I said that alien abductions and visitations are a strong possibility, would that makes me open minded? Becasue that isn't fair. I'm not saying it isn't possible, duendy, but I have no evidence placed before me to say that it's probable. Is it possible? Yes, of course it is. I don't see that as a close-minded view on the matter.
Your attacks on me seem to center around your misconception that it's OK just to take someone claiming a UFO abduction on TV at their word. I don't see it that way. It's not fair to ask me to be sympathetic or have empathy for someone on TV who claims a UFO abduction or experience, simply because, once again, I have no way of knowing their motives or where they were that night, or if anyone could place them at the supermarket during the time of their alleged abduction, for instance.
See? That's what I'm talking about. Just because I am skeptical, I am materialistic and mistrusting. That's plain old bullshit.
You're wrong again. I am not saying that ANY of them are claimed by lunies or crazies or psychos; I'm saying that you don't seem to consider that any of them MIGHT BE. You just believe, without anything to verify their stories, you just believe. I won't, and that doesn't make me sad or mistrusting, it makes me a human being.
If I knew, personally, someone who claimed a UFO abduction, I could at least do some research: I could ask others where the person was that night, I could interview the family, I could see if stories match up, I could do things that I just can't do to someone halfway around the world who claims it.
I am skeptical because with one or two notable exceptions, all of the aduction stories I've seen on TV or heard on the radio seem to happen at night, in their bedrooms, where nobody would know the difference if they were home or not. And these aliens do all these horrible things within the matter of moments or a couple of hours, never a few days or weeks, when some people might notice the disappearance of the person or people in question.
There was one story I heard of a young interracial couple in the 1950s or 60s who were abducted from their cars on a dirt road at night, and they claimed that the aliens communicated with them, not of some great message like some claim, or preformed anal probes or horrible experiments like many claim, but simple communication. The aliens showed the couple a map of the Andromeda Galaxy, which the couple claimed the aliens hailed from.
Now, had the story stopped there, I would have no reason to believe. I could dismiss it at hand because there would be nothing different about this story than any other, BUT...the man managed to draw a picture of this map he was shown. Not with arrows and lines, but a detailed star map of Andromeda. From what I recall (don't quote me, I saw this a while ago) the astronomists they asked claimed that there would be no real way for the man to know that information, let alone draw a map of a different galaxy.
That story really made me wonder if they were really abducted by actual aliens. I really, to this day, am very optimistic about their experience. I guess there may have been a way for the man to know what he knew, but it would have been difficult, from what everyone involved said.
JD
Why? Because I'd want evidence beyond their story? Because I'd want an artifact from the ship they were one during this abduction? Because I'd want something more than a sob story?
What constitutes open minded research? If I said that alien abductions and visitations are a strong possibility, would that makes me open minded? Becasue that isn't fair. I'm not saying it isn't possible, duendy, but I have no evidence placed before me to say that it's probable. Is it possible? Yes, of course it is. I don't see that as a close-minded view on the matter.
Your attacks on me seem to center around your misconception that it's OK just to take someone claiming a UFO abduction on TV at their word. I don't see it that way. It's not fair to ask me to be sympathetic or have empathy for someone on TV who claims a UFO abduction or experience, simply because, once again, I have no way of knowing their motives or where they were that night, or if anyone could place them at the supermarket during the time of their alleged abduction, for instance.
See? That's what I'm talking about. Just because I am skeptical, I am materialistic and mistrusting. That's plain old bullshit.
You're wrong again. I am not saying that ANY of them are claimed by lunies or crazies or psychos; I'm saying that you don't seem to consider that any of them MIGHT BE. You just believe, without anything to verify their stories, you just believe. I won't, and that doesn't make me sad or mistrusting, it makes me a human being.
If I knew, personally, someone who claimed a UFO abduction, I could at least do some research: I could ask others where the person was that night, I could interview the family, I could see if stories match up, I could do things that I just can't do to someone halfway around the world who claims it.
I am skeptical because with one or two notable exceptions, all of the aduction stories I've seen on TV or heard on the radio seem to happen at night, in their bedrooms, where nobody would know the difference if they were home or not. And these aliens do all these horrible things within the matter of moments or a couple of hours, never a few days or weeks, when some people might notice the disappearance of the person or people in question.
There was one story I heard of a young interracial couple in the 1950s or 60s who were abducted from their cars on a dirt road at night, and they claimed that the aliens communicated with them, not of some great message like some claim, or preformed anal probes or horrible experiments like many claim, but simple communication. The aliens showed the couple a map of the Andromeda Galaxy, which the couple claimed the aliens hailed from.
Now, had the story stopped there, I would have no reason to believe. I could dismiss it at hand because there would be nothing different about this story than any other, BUT...the man managed to draw a picture of this map he was shown. Not with arrows and lines, but a detailed star map of Andromeda. From what I recall (don't quote me, I saw this a while ago) the astronomists they asked claimed that there would be no real way for the man to know that information, let alone draw a map of a different galaxy.
That story really made me wonder if they were really abducted by actual aliens. I really, to this day, am very optimistic about their experience. I guess there may have been a way for the man to know what he knew, but it would have been difficult, from what everyone involved said.
JD
I'll be responding to duendy in this post, so I will omit the "Originally Posted By:" part of the quotes.
Yes, but they seperate the quotes and their responses. The quote bubbles are a different shade from the background so you can distinguish the difference easily. What you are doing is forcing me to squint and it's a very annoying read. I do read what you post, mind you, but everyone here would appreciate you doing what they do: Seperating the quotes from the responses with more than a "me:::" That's all.
How do you know they've actually been through that experience? You are already assuming truth on their part. Do you see? You think I'm being a cold bastard because I'm not sympathetic to an experience of which I cannot verify the validity of.
I'm not close-minded to such claims, I'm just skeptical. I want to see some evidence, that's all. If you hit me with a peice of what you claim to be a spaceship, I'd have to take it for testing first.
And yes, it's possible they were abducted by aliens. Is it probable? No.
Guilty until proven innocent? Yes, absolutely. It is the burden of claimant to prove thier case. Even a rape victim must be able to prove he/she was raped before the defendant is convicted. A horrid crime, yes, but people can and have lied about being raped in the past.
You cannot account for these people's motives. You cannot say, not knowing the people in their town or the people themselves, that they would be ridiculed or even care what the reaction would be of their claim. Maybe they just hoped to be the story of the century! You never know! They could be whackos!
And yes...they could be telling the truth! But you simply assume they are telling the truth, while I can only say that what they claim is not probable, based on the fact that we have no evidence of alien life visiting Earth. I am not saying they are lying; I'm saying that for me to believe them would take more than a story. How is that unfair? How is that unscientific?
Materialistic science? You mean the science where you need empirical evidence? Not just claims by unknown people for unknown reasons? Yes, I believe in that science.
Are you going to go to Lancaster? Are you going to follow up on the claim? No, because you simply believe it based on the documentary. I'm not going because A) I don't have the means to go, and B) That isn't my responsibility! I'm sure they've been interviewed by numerous people already. Let those people make the conclusions on that.
But like I said: If it happened here, in my town, to someone I know, I'd look into it. Sure, because it interests me, and I can afford to do that legwork. Otherwise, I can't.
Let me guess...they were on a road, a lonely dirt road, in the middle of the night, with no other cars or pedestrians around to see this happen...hmm...
It's just too convienient that there wasn't a single witness to this event, or most of the abductions events claimed by people. I'm sorry, but why doesn't it ever happen at 5pm on a Tuesday in rush hour in New York City? It seems to happen on these lonely stretches of road, in the backwoods, where nobody can see, and no independant witnesses can verify the events. It's just too convienient. It would be like a person on trial for murder saying that they were home alone on the night in question and nobody saw them all day. It just wouldn't fly.
And what the fuck does imagination have to do with it? My imagination prevents me from dismissing these claims altogether, but why would I just believe them? I don't know them or anything about them. If I believed them based on some documentary, I'd open every bit of spam email and listen to salesmen over the phone every time!
Again, I don't know if I believe what they reported "thyen." I can't say. I just don't know. That story was pretty serious, and this guy had something a lot of people said he shouldn't have had.
Let me stress: It would not have been impossible for this man to have this self-drawn picture of the andromeda galaxy. The people interviewed said it was "highly unlikely" that he would know this, but not impossible. So, let me state again: It is not impossible that these people were abducted by aliens. Just highly unlikely.
OK, let me clarify: He did not have a map stolen from the ship he says he was on. He, himself, drew a picture of the andromeda galaxy. Was he on the ship? I don't know. He could have gone to the library, I assume, and looked it up. He could have had a friend who had this information, who knows?
He could have been abducted!
See, duendy, I'm not the close-minded one in this conversation; you are. I cannot take people I see on TV at their word when they claim outrageous things like abductions because A) There is no empirical evidence for UFO visitation, B) I cannot verify the whereabouts of this couple the night in question, and C) I don't know them from Adam, so how am I supposed to uncover their motives? How do I know that they weren't just looking for their 15 minutes of fame? How do I know it wasn't intended as a practical joke that backfired and earned them some serious press? How do you know that this man didn't find this information, draw a picture, and claim to be abducted because he was absolutely in-fucking-sane? How do you know? How do I know?
We don't.
Therefore, I cannot just say "Oh yeah, he was abducted. For sure. Absolutely. No doubt in my mind." I'm sorry, but asking me to do that is insane in itself.
JD
Yes, but they seperate the quotes and their responses. The quote bubbles are a different shade from the background so you can distinguish the difference easily. What you are doing is forcing me to squint and it's a very annoying read. I do read what you post, mind you, but everyone here would appreciate you doing what they do: Seperating the quotes from the responses with more than a "me:::" That's all.
How do you know they've actually been through that experience? You are already assuming truth on their part. Do you see? You think I'm being a cold bastard because I'm not sympathetic to an experience of which I cannot verify the validity of.
I'm not close-minded to such claims, I'm just skeptical. I want to see some evidence, that's all. If you hit me with a peice of what you claim to be a spaceship, I'd have to take it for testing first.
And yes, it's possible they were abducted by aliens. Is it probable? No.
Guilty until proven innocent? Yes, absolutely. It is the burden of claimant to prove thier case. Even a rape victim must be able to prove he/she was raped before the defendant is convicted. A horrid crime, yes, but people can and have lied about being raped in the past.
You cannot account for these people's motives. You cannot say, not knowing the people in their town or the people themselves, that they would be ridiculed or even care what the reaction would be of their claim. Maybe they just hoped to be the story of the century! You never know! They could be whackos!
And yes...they could be telling the truth! But you simply assume they are telling the truth, while I can only say that what they claim is not probable, based on the fact that we have no evidence of alien life visiting Earth. I am not saying they are lying; I'm saying that for me to believe them would take more than a story. How is that unfair? How is that unscientific?
Materialistic science? You mean the science where you need empirical evidence? Not just claims by unknown people for unknown reasons? Yes, I believe in that science.
Are you going to go to Lancaster? Are you going to follow up on the claim? No, because you simply believe it based on the documentary. I'm not going because A) I don't have the means to go, and B) That isn't my responsibility! I'm sure they've been interviewed by numerous people already. Let those people make the conclusions on that.
But like I said: If it happened here, in my town, to someone I know, I'd look into it. Sure, because it interests me, and I can afford to do that legwork. Otherwise, I can't.
Let me guess...they were on a road, a lonely dirt road, in the middle of the night, with no other cars or pedestrians around to see this happen...hmm...
It's just too convienient that there wasn't a single witness to this event, or most of the abductions events claimed by people. I'm sorry, but why doesn't it ever happen at 5pm on a Tuesday in rush hour in New York City? It seems to happen on these lonely stretches of road, in the backwoods, where nobody can see, and no independant witnesses can verify the events. It's just too convienient. It would be like a person on trial for murder saying that they were home alone on the night in question and nobody saw them all day. It just wouldn't fly.
And what the fuck does imagination have to do with it? My imagination prevents me from dismissing these claims altogether, but why would I just believe them? I don't know them or anything about them. If I believed them based on some documentary, I'd open every bit of spam email and listen to salesmen over the phone every time!
Again, I don't know if I believe what they reported "thyen." I can't say. I just don't know. That story was pretty serious, and this guy had something a lot of people said he shouldn't have had.
Let me stress: It would not have been impossible for this man to have this self-drawn picture of the andromeda galaxy. The people interviewed said it was "highly unlikely" that he would know this, but not impossible. So, let me state again: It is not impossible that these people were abducted by aliens. Just highly unlikely.
OK, let me clarify: He did not have a map stolen from the ship he says he was on. He, himself, drew a picture of the andromeda galaxy. Was he on the ship? I don't know. He could have gone to the library, I assume, and looked it up. He could have had a friend who had this information, who knows?
He could have been abducted!
See, duendy, I'm not the close-minded one in this conversation; you are. I cannot take people I see on TV at their word when they claim outrageous things like abductions because A) There is no empirical evidence for UFO visitation, B) I cannot verify the whereabouts of this couple the night in question, and C) I don't know them from Adam, so how am I supposed to uncover their motives? How do I know that they weren't just looking for their 15 minutes of fame? How do I know it wasn't intended as a practical joke that backfired and earned them some serious press? How do you know that this man didn't find this information, draw a picture, and claim to be abducted because he was absolutely in-fucking-sane? How do you know? How do I know?
We don't.
Therefore, I cannot just say "Oh yeah, he was abducted. For sure. Absolutely. No doubt in my mind." I'm sorry, but asking me to do that is insane in itself.
JD
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JDawg said:I'll be responding to duendy in this post, so I will omit the "Originally Posted By:" part of the quotes.
(((((part 2)))))))
And what the fuck does imagination have to do with it? My imagination prevents me from dismissing these claims altogether, but why would I just believe them? I don't know them or anything about them. If I believed them based on some documentary, I'd open every bit of spam email and listen to salesmen over the phone every time!
me:K fine...i respect that you haven't even seen te documentary..........tat is cool. rather than make a judgement from stuff yo aint even seen. but what about al te abuction cases you possibly/probably have seen? you dimiss them all?.....
Again, I don't know if I believe what they reported "thyen." I can't say. I just don't know. That story was pretty serious, and this guy had something a lot of people said he shouldn't have had.
mew::you are in a state of ''''i dont know if i believe them''''''which is like where i am at. it is a limbo state of: 'I DONT KNOW'....agreed?
Let
part 3 in reponse to jdawg
(you have trouble ith my posts..i have trouble wid yours. i couldn't get past 'Let'...so had to begin new post)
you say 'How Do i KNow'.......right. when you got a problem of this magnitude, ii personally feel you have to then branch right out and go interdiscip;inary......ie., you have to researc all forms of inquiry which may give you hints. tis is why i ask such questions as 'do you believe in materialstic science'...to some thismay seem off the point. but it VERY isn't. it is about also exploring the CONTEXT one is exploring IN!....get me?
(you have trouble ith my posts..i have trouble wid yours. i couldn't get past 'Let'...so had to begin new post)
you say 'How Do i KNow'.......right. when you got a problem of this magnitude, ii personally feel you have to then branch right out and go interdiscip;inary......ie., you have to researc all forms of inquiry which may give you hints. tis is why i ask such questions as 'do you believe in materialstic science'...to some thismay seem off the point. but it VERY isn't. it is about also exploring the CONTEXT one is exploring IN!....get me?
Ophiolite
Valued Senior Member
You can say sorry. You have been requested repeatedly by member after member to use the quotation function. You continue to use the excuse of 'your set top digi-box', which is, in fact, quite capable of engaging the function.duendy said:
You take this massive stance Duendy of being so fair minded, for the underdog, against big business and corrupt government, and exploitative science, yet you lack the common courtesy to make it easier for other posters to read what you are saying. You are rude Duendy. Your actions are rude. You are a boor.
Use the bloody quotes.
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