When Is Jesus Coming?

[Gravity]

Hey, Adstar - the real underlying point there? Anybody can use the Bible to prove anything they want. The Jehovah's Witnesses, the Catholics, Baptists, Presbyterians, etc. . . they all can prove they are "right" using the Bible. Just as sure as you are certain YOUR interpretation is the ONE TRUE WAY.

Believe whatever idiocy you want. However, folks like you scare me because you whine about the dangers of armed Middle Eastern religious fundamentalists . . . and then want to push prayer into our schools and relax gun controls. And you just are not even capable of seeing the hypocrasy of your position.

For the sake of my children, I hope sanity asserts itself soon. You scumbags are going ensure the downfall of this great nation otherwise!

All praise the REAL ancient days.

 

[TruthSeeker]

You all miss the 'sufferings' of Jesus. This is why he has most authority. It was through His sufferings that you are saved because it is His blood spilled out for you that you are redeemed.

This is all hard to prove. You have to prove more essential things before you consider those things. For instance, you have to prove the existance of God. Not that He doesn't exists, or that I doubt He exists, but if you want to prove yourself right, you have to put yourself in a position to question and try to find the truth yourself.

Jesus is alive because He is God. I amazed that you do not see this! As it is written No one has ever seen God, but Jesus said 'If you have seen me then you have seen the One who sent me'

If someone sends you, how can you be that someone? Don't you see that those two are two different people?

Let's try to split that sentence:
"If you have seen me...": So he is comparing himself to someone/something, basically...
"... then you have seen the One who sent me."
Do you see that he distinguishes himself from God?

So what does that passage means? Well.... what it can mean?
Ok. If I send you to do something, you are doing something in my behalf, right? So if you do that something, it is me that is doing something through you!

Isn't there a scripture that says that Christ is within us, in our hearts? Does that mean that we ARE Christ? No! That is the same thing.

All you wise people! How come you do not see this simple truth. Is Jesus not the Lamb of God?

Do you not see that God is both Righteous Anger (against sin) and Mercy ( because you are weak) and that you have Mercy through the death and resurection of Jesus Christ the Lamb of God?

1) God is "angry" against sin, not the sinner. Those are two completely different things.
2) God is not merciful, He is compassionate (and charitable). Those are two completely different kinds of love. Mercy implies that we are in a very low and bad position. Compassion implies that God forgives us simply because we are not perfect. When you forgive your kid, for example, you are forgiving your kid not because you are right and s/he is wrong, but because s/he doesn't know what s/he is doing!

I'm amazed you do not understand these simple things! And I am amazed that any thinking person would question the Authority of that through which you have life and not eternal seperation from Our Father because of your sin!

You choose to be separate from God....

 

[TruthSeeker]

You seem to miss the NOT very subtle point here. That was PARAPHRASING what you folks belive. Which is basically to praise and flatter them or you will be tortured in hell. Do you believe the Bible should be only literally quoted? Ok, should I start hitting you with the full horror of the quotes depicting a bloodthirsty, vain and jealous ''god'' who also advocates his subjects also do various horrific things in his name? They are in the New and Old Testaments . . .

Actually... I don't remember reading that in the New Testament. Do you mean in the Revelations?

but I'll bet you have excuses for any verses you disagree with? Or anything you *don't* like is ''out of context'' if you don't like how its being used?

It is actually often really out of context....
You usually have to take a lot into consideration in order to not be out of context...

But of course, other times we are not out of context. But usually, a single verse is for sure out of context.

Look, again, 2/3 of humanity are NOT Christians, are they all going to hell? Funny, many of them belong to different groups that believe YOU are going to hell. "My god can beat up your god" --- right?

What is really sad is that we all preach essentially the same thing....!

 

[TruthSeeker]

Jesus is the Son of God through whom all things were made.

Matthew 5:1-12

The Sermon on the Mount; The Beatitudes

"1When Jesus saw the crowds, He went up on the mountain; and after He sat down, His disciples came to Him.
2 He opened His mouth and began to teach them, saying,
3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 "Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5 "Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.
6 "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
7 "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
8 "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
9 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
10 "Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 "Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.
12 "Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. "

Note two things:
1) He didn't distinguish between Christians and non-Christians.
2) He called us Sons of God- not to mention he also calls us "children of God"....

Given that He is the Son of God who offers us all a way back to the Father through believing on Him and being born again of Spirit, it is quite obvious why believers see God as a Trinity.

1) Accepting him and his teachings are two different things. Which one is right?
2) There's only one God. Only because we are saved through Jesus doesn't mean that Jesus IS God.

Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Yes the Holy Spirit is God too poured out to all who accept Jesus as the Messiah. The Holy Spirit is the One who reveals the nature of The Christ to you so that you may know your salvation and be filled with Joy!

The Holy Spirit IS God. There's absolutely NO distinction between the Holy Spirit and God. God is the Holy Spirit. God is a spirit, right? And He is holy, right? What does that tell ya?

I say these things not for the praise of men, nor do I say these things to be accepted by men but so that you may know the truth and be saved through grace.

Don't plagerize. Quote.

Rejecting Jesus is tant amount to saying "Oh so some bloke thought he was gonna save me did he? Well I dont need no saving thanks. I'm just fine the way I am!"

Well, there might be an element of pride... but there's often an element of ignorance. Not complete ignorance, but simply not knowing what all this means....

Well if you are fine the way you are then you must be assured of eternal life already yes? Perhaps you do not want eternal life? Perhaps you are content to be cut off from the very source of love and affirmation that your soul was designed to receive and be sustained by?

Some actually prefer to die and compeltely cease to exist.

Perhaps you think that this grand galactic fiery merry-go-round we call our universe was brought into being for no purpose. Perhaps you think that you have no purpose?

Maybe there IS no purpose. Maybe God created us just because that's what he wanted to do. Maybe He was bored, who knows...?

Perhaps you hate love?

1) This is a non-sequitur.
2) No, I don't hate love. In fact, you can search my name and love, or ask other people and you will see that the very opposite is true. It's because I love that I defend sinners. It's because I love that I try my best to understand the Bible better and truly help others to find God. And by all means, unity amongst all people is in fact my ultimate goal.

Do you not see God's love for humanity as He Himself takes the just penalty for all the pain and suffering brought about by your sin? Does He punish you or does He take the rap for you because He knows you are weak? Is it any wonder given that God took the rap for you that you will remain under judgement by refusing His Life as an offering for your salvation? Is Jesus now not alive and measuring your hearts and minds, measuring your love for him? Jesus came to earth as a human being. God is a God of the Living. He Himself is a living being who hears and sees all.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is all great, but if you can't prove it, it is not going to help neither you nor all the atheists out there....

He says "Who are you mortal man whose days are numbered? You are like a child who never listened to their father and caused their father to grieve for your welfare knowing your disobedience can only lead to no good! You sit in your room cursing your father because you hate his authority, you hate being told what to do! You want to kill your own flesh and blood because you love the evil you do and cannot see that your father is trying to protect you! If you did what was right then the scowl you have would turn to a smile. Go now from your room. Go to your father and tell him you are sorry. Your father will thank God that his child has been restored to him and you will both be glad. Will the father even remember the disobedience? I think not!"

Would you, as a father or mother, send your kid to hell just because s/he didn't apologize? I mean.... call that deadly brocoli!

God is more compassionate then that...

Dont be like the faithless who sit in their rooms cursing their father because he wishes the best for them. Rather embrace that father who just wants to know that you love him and in humility trust in his word for you because it is good.

I do. I love God cause I love Love. And that's exactly why I try to understand Him better.

I pray that you who read this receive the Spirit of God as you accept the truth of these words from He that sent me to tell them to you.

If I wasn't Christian, I wouldn't.

Amen

Do you even know what that means?

 

[c20H25N3o]

Truthseeker - Where we essentially differ I think is that I bow to Jesus and call Him Lord. You seem to have a problem with Jesus as God. I dont know why. As you rightly point out we too are sons of God. Jesus is the head of the body of Christ. This is why I bow to Him because He is worthy of my praise. He is worthy of my praise because He did what I know in my heart I could not do. Jesus came as a human being. I am a human being. I could not have done what Jesus did do.
Without the work of the cross I would never have life. God showed me He loved me so much that no matter what I had done, He loved me. It was Jesus' life that showed me God because He was obedient to God whom He called His Father. God is Jesus to me. Not just Jesus the man but also Jesus the only begotten Son of Father God. No one has ever seen God.
I understand your dilema. Dont think that I dont. You rightly assume your relationship with Jesus as that of 'brother'. You do not feel that you should have to bow to your brother whom you know to be humble and mild though reading about His life and believing His testimony. Why would your brother want you to bow to him? The truth is, He is One to whom you must bow because He is worthy of your bowed head. Unless you exalt He who humbles Himself, you will never know true Glory. I bow my head in faith because I who humble myself am exalted in the Christ.
I am not trying to trip you up here but lead you to a greater understanding of Jesus whom you believe and trust in. Jesus is God Truthseeker. He is God because He only does what He sees His Father doing. This was God's will that His Son should be exalted above all others. However such Glory carries a price. The price was his life for yours so that you may have life in Him. Understand this though. Jesus' Glory existed before He said 'Let There Be Light' _ You were not even created through the line of Adam at that point. So Jesus was greater than the angels and sat at God's right hand side before man ever sinned. It was His humility and patience and forgiveness that we are able to witness through His testimony as a human being. We are able to witness these things because we testify that we are saved through Him. How could we know this side of God's nature unless we needed to be saved?
Please do not doubt my sincerity here. Ther should be no dissention among us who believe and I know that you believe in Jesus. If you like, please forgive me for so openly prostrating myself before that which I call God. I know it pleases God that I exalt His son. He smiles upon me when I do because He knows I am too like him. This pleases me because I am affirmed in my spirit of my salvation and know that I am accepted fully by my Creator.
I do not wish to trip you up in your love for Jesus the man. I would like you to see the resurrected eternal Jesus as well as the crucified man however. He said "I go now to prepare a place for you in my Fathers house but I will send a Helper to you."
The Helper is the Holy Spirit whom I have recieved. He testifies that Jesus is God. I know no other truth.

 

[philocrazy]

religion is religion
you people dont even know what it means
both those who follow it and those who reject it
i told you what it means
now tell me is yourself a religion or not?

 

[c20H25N3o]

religion is religion
you people dont even know what it means
both those who follow it and those who reject it
i told you what it means
now tell me is yourself a religion or not?

Religion is a term which defines a belief system which one may hold to in faith usually because of some promised reward at the end of it. There are evidently many belief systems because people can choose the one that seems to suit their understanding of the world and they are partial ultimately to the prize promised at the end of it all by their chosen religion. In a worldly sense I hate religion because as many rightly point out, religion seems to be the pivotal point of much distress in the world.
I think your question is "Am I myself a religion?" - well I would have to answer 'No' because I in myself am not a belief system. I could ask you to believe in me but this would not mean I was claiming to be religous. I might simply be asking you to trust my will over a matter where both of us stand to gain or lose. Again this is not religion in a worldy sense. Preachers of any religion naturally wish to convert people to their religion because more believers = greater hope that the promised prize is theirs.
As for me I can promise you nothing of myself. I cannot tell you how to live and I have no prize to offer. No I myself am not a religion.

c20

 

[philocrazy]

but you still would like other people to think along similar lines such as yourself's
now tell me
is morality religion or not?
morality is morality
and
distress in the world is distress in the world-save your arguements and come up with
solutions such as believe in me trust me is that religion or not because with most religions
you stand to gain or loose as well
now tell me
is religion a problem?
the problem is the problem
what is the problem?

am i a big philosopher?huh?no!!!!!!hmmmmm

 

[Adstar]

Believe whatever idiocy you want. However, folks like you scare me because you whine about the dangers of armed Middle Eastern religious fundamentalists . . . and then want to push prayer into our schools and relax gun controls. And you just are not even capable of seeing the hypocrasy of your position.

For the sake of my children, I hope sanity asserts itself soon. You scumbags are going ensure the downfall of this great nation otherwise!

Gravity why talk blatant lies to my face and to everyone else??

I challenge you to provide a quote where i supported the pushing of prayer into any school? And i challenge you to provide one quote where i supported the relaxation of Gun control?

Well there is no point putting that challenge to you is it. You liar. Call me a hypocrite will you? Look at yourself you will find a publicly exposed lying hypocrite of the first order.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[SnakeLord]

Just a quick point to Truthseeker:

2) No, I don't hate love. In fact, you can search my name and love, or ask other people and you will see that the very opposite is true. It's because I love that I defend sinners. It's because I love that I try my best to understand the Bible better and truly help others to find God. And by all means, unity amongst all people is in fact my ultimate goal.

You say it is your love that makes you "truly help others find god", but that is not love. If it were love, you would truly let others be who they are - and not find any difference between you both. What you speak of is little more than pity, all wrapped up in the corniest of used car salesman attitudes.

You might try and liken it to the 'pity-love' shown to alcoholics and the like, but there is a key difference. That difference is that unlike alcoholics, people who are not christian, are perfectly fine. Instead your personal little opinion claims they're not and you then try to persuade them into thinking just like you do. That's not love, it's a self-declared self-superiority. You pity them, you think you're in a better position than they are, but there is not one little sign of love present anywhere.

As for your "unity amongst all people"; It will never happen while people like you go around truly trying to help others believe exactly what you believe.

 

[TruthSeeker]

You say it is your love that makes you "truly help others find god", but that is not love. If it were love, you would truly let others be who they are - and not find any difference between you both.

1) I let they be who they are. It's their option if they want to listen to what I say or not. If I present an argument that is clearly true and they ignore, that's there own business. In the same way, if I present an argument that has no evidence and they believe, that is also their own business. All that I'm doing is to state my own position, my own opinions, and explaining them.
2) We are different. Everyone is unique. Or do you think we are alike? No. So one of the characteristics of love is recognizing and valuing our differences. You cannot change people, but you can change how you respond to them. That's one of the basis of my philosophy.

What you speak of is little more than pity, all wrapped up in the corniest of used car salesman attitudes.

I have no pity for him/her nor for you. You are who you are, and that's ok. But when you react in a bad way and don't "let" others be others - then you need to speak out about that.

There's a big difference between stating your opinions and "not letting others be who they are".

You might try and liken it to the 'pity-love' shown to alcoholics and the like, but there is a key difference. That difference is that unlike alcoholics, people who are not christian, are perfectly fine. Instead your personal little opinion claims they're not and you then try to persuade them into thinking just like you do.

I never say they are not fine. All that I say is that I see things in a different perspective. Then, I try to argue and prove that my perspective is true.

That's not love, it's a self-declared self-superiority.

You don't like Socrates, do you.....?

You pity them, you think you're in a better position than they are, but there is not one little sign of love present anywhere.

I don't think so. In fact, I don't think about that at all, since that is not important for me. Maybe it is important for you.

As for your "unity amongst all people"; It will never happen while people like you go around truly trying to help others believe exactly what you believe.

It's impossible to have unitiy if differences are not valued.


You have an extremely twisted perspective of myself.......
Is that an accident or your are just trying to make yourself look superior?

 

[SnakeLord]

If I present an argument that is clearly true and they ignore, that's there own business.

An argument?

All that I'm doing is to state my own position, my own opinions, and explaining them.

You're debating an issue, which you claim is through love, but is merely because you consider them wrong, and yourself right. It's the same reason people debate here or any other place. Where does love come into it?

We are different. Everyone is unique. Or do you think we are alike?

More so than people would care to admit. It's the reason psychology works, and it's also the reason when looking back 100 years or more, that you can see exactly the same religious/atheist arguments. Read some of Mark Twain's works: Here, and you'll see just how alike we all are when it really comes down to it.

You cannot change people, but you can change how you respond to them. That's one of the basis of my philosophy.

So on the one hand you claim you "truly" try to change people and then on the other hand state you cannot change people.

There's a big difference between stating your opinions and "not letting others be who they are".

In your case, apparently not. In every instance thus far, you have used the word "argument". You know, words say a great deal - even more than people realise or pay attention to. There are specific reasons you say "it's just my opinion", and then add "I try to argue it". You probably didn't even notice it, even though you used the very same word several times. Just a sudden coincidence, or are you saying more than you know?

I never say they are not fine. All that I say is that I see things in a different perspective.

Well, that sounds peachy.. until...

Then, I try to argue and prove that my perspective is true.

My point exactly. No sign of love here.

You don't like Socrates, do you.....?

Never met the guy.

I don't think so. In fact, I don't think about that at all, since that is not important for me. Maybe it is important for you.

Important for me? No, I don't preach - and if I did, it wouldn't be to people I love.

It's impossible to have unitiy if differences are not valued.

So.. you value their differences but then argue to prove them wrong - by using an argument that has no proof, evidence, or even worthwhile speculation but merely opinion and assumption?

You have an extremely twisted perspective of myself.......

Well perhaps you have a twisted perspective of yourself. It's what I get paid to do, and although this could never be as indepth or thorough as usual methods, it's generally quite accurate. Of course, I took the liberty of lumping you alongside the mass majority of religious people I have met and spoken to, but you don't come across as being any different.

Is that an accident or your are just trying to make yourself look superior

Nah, I'm a very basic guy.. If I wanted to look superior I'd just whip my willy out, and if that failed there's a whole bunch of areas we could go to from there: academic qualifications, price of house, who's dad is bigger, who has a bigger TV, or PC with more RAM. The list is somewhat endless - and personal debate has to hit bottom of the barrel.

And to Adstar:

Therefore there is no point in walking any further with you. May God cause you to loose faith in yourself and may you be forgiven.

Lol, that's a bloody classic.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Where we essentially differ I think is that I bow to Jesus and call Him Lord. You seem to have a problem with Jesus as God. I dont know why.

Because he clearly tells us that he isn't God. But you are right, that's where we differ.

As you rightly point out we too are sons of God.

So why do you bow your brother?

Jesus is the head of the body of Christ.

Jesus was a human being - in fact, a body. Christ is Jesus spirit, and Christ does live forever. The "head of the church" is a metaphor explaning that Christ is the spirit who created the church. I don't even think he intended for us to be a religious group, but I do think that he intended to unite all people.

This is why I bow to Him because He is worthy of my praise. He is worthy of my praise because He did what I know in my heart I could not do.

Of course you can do! In fact, you are even called to do the same! Ever read Romans 12?

Jesus came as a human being. I am a human being. I could not have done what Jesus did do.

Exactly. He was a human being. (Christ, spirit, lives forever.) But you can do what he did. This is the whole point of being a Christian! You should be able to do that. Of course, you need to be faithful. This is our purpose, as Christians. And I'm not saying that we should tell others to become Christians! I'm saying that we should teach others to love one another. This is the message to the Gentiles: that love accomplishes all things, it even covers a multitude of sins.

Without the work of the cross I would never have life. God showed me He loved me so much that no matter what I had done, He loved me.

I think He actually does that every day...! Ever watched the sunrise?

It was Jesus' life that showed me God because He was obedient to God whom He called His Father.

And you? Are not? You are certainly right that Jesus was obedient to God. But doesn't that also mean that he was an example for us to follow?

God is Jesus to me.

Fine. Just be aware that you are not the wisest man on earth, so you may even be wrong. Or you are wise enough to know for sure that Jesus is God?
I'm not saying "stop believing that right way". I'm just saying that you might reconsider that if you find a better explanation. Jesus called himself a rabbi. He also said that only the Father is good. He also said that God is Father and he is son - just like us. Do you deny any of those?

I'm not denying that Christ is a Son of God, I'm only denying that God want all of us to be little children forever.

Besides, humbleness and wisdom are not mutually exclusive!
Doesn't mean that we are wise, just means that we can be just human but also close to God! Which is a real gift!? Wanna try to govern the universe? You would probably go crazy!

Not just Jesus the man but also Jesus the only begotten Son of Father God.

So far.... I guess he IS the ony begotten son. Maybe (I don't know every single person that lived in this planet)...

No one has ever seen God.

1 John 4:11-12
"11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
12 No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us. "

1 Corinthians 13:11-13
"11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.
12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.
13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love. "

Do you see any connection between those verses? Basically, they seem to say that we need to grow up in order to know God and to understand His love. So, yes.... no one alive has ever seen God. But if you grow up enough, you become one with Him, His love becomes an integrated part of you and you are able to understand God the same way he has always understood you. But you need to stop being a child of God and become a grown up "man". If you don't grow up spiritually, you will never be able to get that (unless in heaven, of course). This is what I'm absolutely stressing here.

I understand your dilema. Dont think that I dont. You rightly assume your relationship with Jesus as that of 'brother'. You do not feel that you should have to bow to your brother whom you know to be humble and mild though reading about His life and believing His testimony. Why would your brother want you to bow to him?

Yes, you understand me. Or that.

The truth is, He is One to whom you must bow because He is worthy of your bowed head.

He is certainly worthy of my love. But he himself said that we should praise only God, in heaven. Also, you should worship God by helping and giving to others. God doesn't need anything from us. He already has everything. But if you give to others, you will truly be helping Him. The only true way to worship God is by loving others.

Unless you exalt He who humbles Himself, you will never know true Glory.

True glory comes from knowing God. Exalting Jesus won't bring you that. You need to go and get it. You can't just sit down and get it. It's a process that involves getting to know God. And you can only do that by serving others.

I bow my head in faith because I who humble myself am exalted in the Christ.

Oh yeah, absolutely. But it is that really what you want? To be exalted? Why don't you try being like him? Humble yourself, and you will be exhalted.

Matthew 18:1-4
"1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus and said, "Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?"
2 And He called a child to Himself and set him before them,
3 and said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
4 "Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. "

But remeber this: the lesson here is not "how to become the greatest", but "who is the greatest". If you humble yourself to become the greatest, you will just be fooling yourself. This is why Jesus compares them with a child. A child has integrity. A child is truthful to him/herself. This is what is important here.

Do you see that you have your own exhaltation as the focus, and not the "humbling" part?

I am not trying to trip you up here but lead you to a greater understanding of Jesus whom you believe and trust in.

Same here.

Jesus is God Truthseeker. He is God because He only does what He sees His Father doing.

This is why he says that he is One with God. But that doesn't mean that he is God, since we also can be One with God.

This was God's will that His Son should be exalted above all others.

I think God's will was to save us, not to exalt His son. What is more important for God? That His son is exalted or that we are saved?

However such Glory carries a price. The price was his life for yours so that you may have life in Him.

God is life. I have life in God. Christ taught us that. He even died for that.

Understand this though. Jesus' Glory existed before He said 'Let There Be Light' _ You were not even created through the line of Adam at that point.

I don't think that way. I think we have always been. God created us since the beginning. Just because we were born at this moment in time doesn't mean that our spirits weren't alive when God created the universe.

So Jesus was greater than the angels and sat at God's right hand side before man ever sinned.

We are all greater then agels.

It was His humility and patience and forgiveness that we are able to witness through His testimony as a human being.

Certainly.

We are able to witness these things because we testify that we are saved through Him.

Can't an atheist witness his humility, patience and forgiveness? If they can't, then they are screwed cause they would never know the forgiveness that comes from God, wouldn't you agree?

How could we know this side of God's nature unless we needed to be saved?

I'm not denying salvation, I'm just restating it in a different perspective.

Please do not doubt my sincerity here.

I don't doubt. You are one of the most sincere people I've ever met.

Ther should be no dissention among us who believe and I know that you believe in Jesus. If you like, please forgive me for so openly prostrating myself before that which I call God.

I don't need to forgive you. Even if you needed to be forgiven for that, you would already be.

I know it pleases God that I exalt His son. He smiles upon me when I do because He knows I am too like him.

If you are like Christ you will do what He has done. Serve others .

This pleases me because I am affirmed in my spirit of my salvation and know that I am accepted fully by my Creator.

You have always been accepted by your Father. He always loved you, even when you didn't know Christ. Don't you agree?

I do not wish to trip you up in your love for Jesus the man. I would like you to see the resurrected eternal Jesus as well as the crucified man however.

Jesus is dead. Christ, Jesus' spirit is alive and with God.

He said "I go now to prepare a place for you in my Fathers house but I will send a Helper to you."
The Helper is the Holy Spirit whom I have recieved.

The Holy Spirit is God. God is the "Helper".

He testifies that Jesus is God. I know no other truth.

If you don't want to listen to what I say, you are free to do so. But if you truly have faith in God, then you may consider the fact that God, as a Father, would probably prefer us to grow up and become like Him.

 

[TruthSeeker]

An argument?

Yes. That thingy that has premises and conclusion.

You're debating an issue, which you claim is through love, but is merely because you consider them wrong, and yourself right.

Maybe "wrong" and "right" are not very absolute terms. For example, some things c20H25N3o say I also agree.

It's the same reason people debate here or any other place.

Most people. But there are some that try to improve themselves and others. Which is hard. Most people have a hard time admitting that they are wrong. I'm one of those. But I do, when I need to.

Where does love come into it?

Good thing you asked. When you love your kid, don't you try to explain things for your kid? The same way here. The only difference is that people already come with some knowledge. So that knowledge has to be analized and then we may find a common ground on what is true - and that improves both people. Even if you are "teaching" something, you still learn something from your student. Which happened in the post above. Replying to c20H25N3o gave me a great insight into what I believe.

More so than people would care to admit. It's the reason psychology works, and it's also the reason when looking back 100 years or more, that you can see exactly the same religious/atheist arguments. Read some of Mark Twain's works: Here, and you'll see just how alike we all are when it really comes down to it.

Well... we are very much alike when it boils down to our essence and our problems, since we are the same species and wen live in the same environment thus making our problems and solutions very much alike. But there's a wide variety of attributes that meaks human beings very versatile and different. There's a wide variety of interests that you can choose from, and whatever you choose becomes part of your personality. And since one person will choose differently from others, that makes us unique - in attributes, not in essence. We are dealing with the same things and living in the same planet, but we see things through different perspectives. The thing that makes us unique is our choices.

So on the one hand you claim you "truly" try to change people and then on the other hand state you cannot change people.

I try to make them aware that they can choose who they are. But they can only change who they are if they want to. And it is hard, because people don't like to change their personalities. it's quite hard. Me, myself, am doing that right now. I'm trying to become less serious and more fun, but still keeping what I've learnt throught the last ten years. But it's hard...

In your case, apparently not. In every instance thus far, you have used the word "argument". You know, words say a great deal - even more than people realise or pay attention to. There are specific reasons you say "it's just my opinion", and then add "I try to argue it". You probably didn't even notice it, even though you used the very same word several times. Just a sudden coincidence, or are you saying more than you know?

I know that is logic, and love is not logical. But just a s I said to c20H25N3o, love and wisdom are not mutually exclusive.

Well, that sounds peachy.. until...
...
My point exactly. No sign of love here.

True wisdom comes from trying to balance logic and love. We need both sides. If we have logic, but have no love, we become cold. If we have love, but have no logic, we become unreasonable. You may see that through those years I spent here, I became more and more logical even tough I kept my love philosophy. Just take a look at the Pseudoscience forums, for instance. I haven't been there for a long time, have I? Does that give you a clue that I've been evolving?

We need both sides of the brain.

Never met the guy.

That's because he died some 2,000 years ago....

Important for me? No, I don't preach - and if I did, it wouldn't be to people I love.

Why would you "preach" to them if you don't love them? Doesn't "preaching" implies that you care?

So.. you value their differences but then argue to prove them wrong

I don't argue to prove them wrong, I argue in search for truth - on both ways. the same Socrates did. But again, people thought that he was arguing to prove others wrong when he was just trying to achieve excellence. He died for that, btw....

- by using an argument that has no proof, evidence, or even worthwhile speculation but merely opinion and assumption?

I have arguments.

Well perhaps you have a twisted perspective of yourself. It's what I get paid to do, and although this could never be as indepth or thorough as usual methods, it's generally quite accurate. Of course, I took the liberty of lumping you alongside the mass majority of religious people I have met and spoken to, but you don't come across as being any different.

If you say I'm just like the mass majority of religious people, then you don't really have a very good perspective of myself. Even because I see religion in a completely different then most people.

Nah, I'm a very basic guy.. If I wanted to look superior I'd just whip my willy out, and if that failed there's a whole bunch of areas we could go to from there: academic qualifications, price of house, who's dad is bigger, who has a bigger TV, or PC with more RAM. The list is somewhat endless - and personal debate has to hit bottom of the barrel.

Who cares about being superior? Besides.... is a completely dumb rich person superior then a wise and poor one?

 

[§outh§tar]

Therefore there is no point in walking any further with you. May God cause you to loose faith in yourself and may you be forgiven.

How can anyone argue against that flawless reasoning?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

§outh§tar: How can anyone argue against that flawless reasoning?
*************
M*W: Adstar, you are truly evil. You are a natural representative of your false religion. You will never reach heaven, because it doesn't exist. You are a lost soul. Get lost. You don't have the right to contanimate this forum with your bull caca. The world would be a better place if you just died. You are one of the martyrs that should be beheaded by Al-Queda. I wish that for you.

 

[robtex]

Matthew 5:1-12

1) This is a non-sequitur.
2) No, I don't hate love. In fact, you can search my name and love, or ask other people and you will see that the very opposite is true. It's because I love that I defend sinners. It's because I love that I try my best to understand the Bible better and truly help others to find God. And by all means, unity amongst all people is in fact my ultimate goal.

God is more compassionate then that...


I do. I love God cause I love Love. And that's exactly why I try to understand Him better.


If I wasn't Christian, I wouldn't.

Wow that was a very moving post. I like your explainations and concepts of being a Christian in a multi-belief world.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Wow that was a very moving post. I like your explainations and concepts of being a Christian in a multi-belief world.

Well.... thank you! That's exactly what I'm trying to do.
It took me a looooong time to get to that...

I hope I am on the right track towards unity. It's my job, ya know?
(Or at least that's what I heard... )

 

[nicoman]

Medicine Woman: §outh§tar: How can anyone argue against that flawless reasoning?
*************
M*W: Adstar, you are truly evil. You are a natural representative of your false religion. You will never reach heaven, because it doesn't exist. You are a lost soul. Get lost. You don't have the right to contanimate this forum with your bull caca. The world would be a better place if you just died. You are one of the martyrs that should be beheaded by Al-Queda. I wish that for you.[/QUOTE]
*************
nicoman: Adstar, you are so ignorant. There is no heaven for you! You are a lost soul who will never reach the fictional heven. You are Al-Queda fodder. Off with your head!

 

[Gravity]

Oh, if only we could lock all the religious militants in one room together, well armed. All the Christians, Muslims, Jews . . . . all in one spot. Let them work it out.