Whats the worst that can happen if I do not believe in god?

[audible]

Want to spew anymore insults, go ahead your an atheist you wont get an infraction for it.

Technically I'm atheist, but I label myself a humanist, I don't accept negative labels from theists. Where have I insulted you in that post. Saying your in cloud cuckoo land, is fact, your making bold statements about god that you have no evidence for and could not possibly know.
All I was requesting was you stop doing it, you ruin every thread because of you incessant, unverified BS, give it a rest, or put up some evidence (cite your frigging sources), for said BS.

that assumes a no-god scenario..you can't compare 'worse' without something to compare it to..

What! it assumes nothing, it's a statement of fact, unless you have some evidence to the contrary.

 

[New Atheist]

Comon this is so easy - you burn forever in hell.

Really, wow. How do you come to that?

 

[New Atheist]

Check back in 900 billion years and ask how many people remember Jefferson, oh right you won't be able to because you along with the earth and human race won't be here.

There are two things wrong with that picture for me: Here is why I have no qualms about accepting the truth as I see it. First of all - no human on earth has an inkling of the concept of eternity. So wanting to live for eternity is not a realistic desire. Is it? Second, here is one thing about religion I find duplicitous - they claim wanting to feed the poor, but yet don't - they claim selflessness but exhibit the need for recognition i.e. " I am not going to do something good as I wont be around to bear its fruits" ....

As for me, the obvious design of life is to improve via evolution and natural selection each generation has improved itself on the backs of history's giants - Plato, Galileo, Newton, and the list is long and sometimes incomplete as there were just so many.

I strive to contribute in my own way - and its not by helping the less 'fortunate' its to be the best i can be. I see that being selfish will result in a Pareto optimal outcome rather than been selfless. And cooperation (while being selfish), better than working alone.

Tell me different. but back it up. I am all ears.

 

[wynn]

First of all - no human on earth has an inkling of the concept of eternity.

How do you know that??

Have you questioned every single person, inclduing those that have lived in the past?

 

[New Atheist]

How do you know that??

Have you questioned every single person, inclduing those that have lived in the past?

Taking it in context, so I must ask, have you? meaning, do you have comprehension of eternity. Or do you know of anyone, or do you kow of anyone that knows anyone? As I would love to be proven wrong and shown something that is beyond me. Are you the same way or are you so delusional that you will not accept the possibility of what you think is true?

Asking me if I have asked every single person, is a puerile comeback, I thought better of you. However, in the realm of adult conversations, one knows that in the event we (any member of past or present society) did have an inkling of the description - and not a theory - it would have surfaced in the journals or it would have been unified amongst the religions as to what eternity is. But we are yet to have that - do you disagree, Signal?? By the way, was that a serious question, it would be impossible to ask ever one and it would be impossible to ask people in the past - you do know that right?

Please comment with something credible or interesting semantic comebacks do not advance the argument, just retard it.

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

Let me pose this hypothetical. Assuming I was born into a certain religion and now thinking of apostacy, and my last consideration is this: If i made the leap would I be punished - and if so what would that punishment be (if any.. think ''Prodigal Son") Or if I stayed I am limited to reach my true potential due to ridiculous laws, commandments, parables, teachings aimed at keeping me 'loyal' by guilt. From a purely cerebral perspective (please no old wives tales) what should my considerations be.....

Abandoning one's religion is an act of bravery, sincerity; on the contrary, staying in the religion you were born to just because it's convenient, is hypocritical. True religion has no sect, and if you meditate on the words of the founders of each religion, you will notice that you can't sign in to any specific religion, 'cause they were talking about an inner journey and not a dogmatic sect that worships them...

 

[NMSquirrel]

What! it assumes nothing, it's a statement of fact, unless you have some evidence to the contrary.

whats the worst that can happen if you do not believe in God?
requires comparison

A, God exists and if you do not believe in God you will go to hell
(if religious books have that part right)
B, God exists, religion has got it wrong and god cares more about how/who you are rather than you worshiping him and following someone else's rules.
so you may think you are going to hell,when you are not.
C, God does not exist, nothing happens if you do not believe in God..

the question was what was 'Worse', it did not ask what was 'truth'.

so with only the choices above (im sure you guys can add to it)
the 'worst' would be 'going to hell', wouldn't it? (of course this assumes, hell is as bad as we think it is)

 

[wynn]

As I would love to be proven wrong and shown something that is beyond me. Are you the same way or are you so delusional that you will not accept the possibility of what you think is true?

Wait till old age gets you, I guess ...

 

[audible]

whats the worst that can happen if you do not believe in God?
requires comparison

A, God exists and if you do not believe in God you will go to hell
(if religious books have that part right)

Far too broad, out of all the countless religious books, there are in the world, the most logical thing to do, as there is no evidence to support any of them, is to say" they can't all be right but they can all be wrong" and reject them all. (Hence no need for comparison)

B, God exists, religion has got it wrong and god cares more about how/who you are rather than you worshiping him and following someone else's rules.
so you may think you are going to hell,when you are not.

Well in this case, he would be fine as he does not worship god, and no doubt he is a good person, so again. (Hence nothing bad will happen to him, so no need for comparison)

C, God does not exist, nothing happens if you do not believe in God..

Which is clear as day.

the question was what was 'Worse', it did not ask what was 'truth'.

so with only the choices above (im sure you guys can add to it)
the 'worst' would be 'going to hell', wouldn't it? (of course this assumes, hell is as bad as we think it is)

No as we've established there's no evidence for such a place, that we know of, anything can be imagined. It is pointless entertaining such a possibility until we have evidence, it is merely scare tactics. So the worst that could happen is "nothing".

 

[gmilam]

What's the worst that can happen? IDK - The Spanish Inquisition would suck.

 

[New Atheist]

Abandoning one's religion is an act of bravery, sincerity; on the contrary, staying in the religion you were born to just because it's convenient, is hypocritical. True religion has no sect, and if you meditate on the words of the founders of each religion, you will notice that you can't sign in to any specific religion, 'cause they were talking about an inner journey and not a dogmatic sect that worships them...

Awesome point. Who are the founders of the catholic religion and the muslims?

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

Awesome point. Who are the founders of the catholic religion and the muslims?

That's a good question.

When I say the "founders" I don't mean the political ones. I mean the person from whose teachings a whole religion was born.

You may say Jesus was the "founder" of Christianity, although that is not true. Since Christianity did not exist when Jesus was alive, and Buddhism did not exist when Buddha was alive, etc. The same is true with every major religion.

The catholic religion was officialy founded by Roman politics hundreds of years after Jesus was walking this Earth, and it was much more a political movement than it is a spiritual one. I don't think you can learn much about spirituality from these founders.

But you can read the words of Jesus that we have available, and by not being in a dogmatic religion, you can interpret these teachings in your own way (according to your own understanding); that is not possible by following a cult or sect.

The same is true with muslims (which in Mohammads time the Islam religion did not exist), but he called people "muslims" from the literal meaning: "one who surrenders". It has nothing to do with the dogmatic religion that some branches of Islam now are.

It is very weird how people take the words of inspiration and love from Jesus or Mohammad, and translate them into something ugly like killing other people just for not believing what they do.

If you really follow the teachings of Jesus, you cannot be a Christian. It's paradoxical, but it is true.

 

[spidergoat]

Buddha actually created Buddhism in his lifetime, so did Mohammad. Mohammed also killed people in his lifetime for not believing as he did (the Jews in Medina).

 

[New Atheist]

That's a good question.

When I say the "founders" I don't mean the political ones. I mean the person from whose teachings a whole religion was born.

You may say Jesus was the "founder" of Christianity, although that is not true. Since Christianity did not exist when Jesus was alive, and Buddhism did not exist when Buddha was alive, etc. The same is true with every major religion.

The catholic religion was officialy founded by Roman politics hundreds of years after Jesus was walking this Earth, and it was much more a political movement than it is a spiritual one. I don't think you can learn much about spirituality from these founders.

But you can read the words of Jesus that we have available, and by not being in a dogmatic religion, you can interpret these teachings in your own way (according to your own understanding); that is not possible by following a cult or sect.

The same is true with muslims (which in Mohammads time the Islam religion did not exist), but he called people "muslims" from the literal meaning: "one who surrenders". It has nothing to do with the dogmatic religion that some branches of Islam now are.

It is very weird how people take the words of inspiration and love from Jesus or Mohammad, and translate them into something ugly like killing other people just for not believing what they do.

If you really follow the teachings of Jesus, you cannot be a Christian. It's paradoxical, but it is true.

Hi Wisdom Seeker,

I really appreciate you taking the time to write a lucid, unemotional and unbiased opinion. It is this sort of input I was hoping to read when I first posted the question.

You are right about the source of the religion being the true path to consider not the politicized versions. I agree and that is in part the problem I have with religions - all of them.

How have you reconciled the following - I am sure the questions have arisen - is it possible to know what Moses/Jesus/Budha/Muhammad all really preached since all religions may have been politicized. How do you extract their words from the sea of garbage that followed later and piled upon for millennia.

Next, if you are saying that these people found the truth about a supreme being and its contents a so complex that it has to be related in simpler forms, I can find a way of believing it, but if you say that these people were emissaries of a creator then we are back to square one.

Is there evidence of any of this, is my point at the end of the day?


Again, thank you, your input is appreciated. and btw, do you know if the teachings of all the 'founders' jive with each other?

NA

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

Hi Wisdom Seeker,

I really appreciate you taking the time to write a lucid, unemotional and unbiased opinion. It is this sort of input I was hoping to read when I first posted the question.

You are right about the source of the religion being the true path to consider not the politicized versions. I agree and that is in part the problem I have with religions - all of them. NA

Hi New Atheist ; You are welcome man.

How have you reconciled the following - I am sure the questions have arisen - is it possible to know what Moses/Jesus/Budha/Muhammad all really preached since all religions may have been politicized. How do you extract their words from the sea of garbage that followed later and piled upon for millennia.NA

Your assumptions are correct; truth is you can't know for sure which parts are garbage. Buddhism has not been tampered with as much as Christianity and Islam, but there are many interpretations of the original teachings.
One Zen Master was asked this question you ask, to which he responded: "All scriptures are the devil's teachings".
You really can't find the ultimate truth in scriptures, but scriptures do tend to lead you somewhere beyond their words if you are aware while reading. The way I read these type of literature is by integrating the teachings with my daily life, only taking in consideration that which I can relate to with my personal experience.

Next, if you are saying that these people found the truth about a supreme being and its contents a so complex that it has to be related in simpler forms, I can find a way of believing it, but if you say that these people were emissaries of a creator then we are back to square one.
NA

The very word “god” can be interpreted in many ways, but the concept of a separated deity is contradictory to the concept of an eternal god. As you may know time and space are not separate things, but a space-time continuum. If god is eternal (timeless), then he would also be space less; it is easier to understand this as: God is Love, or God is Unity (unity of everything) that leaves nothing behind.
One of my favorite interpretations is that god is creativity; and not the creator. God is evolution itself. God is within each living being as love and creativity. Jesus said “God is Love”, he didn’t say “God is a loving being” No!! There is a major difference between this two statements.
I don’t think the past, present and future prophets and messiahs are “sent” by anyone or anything. I think that these people had an inner-realization of something most people ignore due to ego-clinging and conditioning of personality by the society and environment.
I would explain it in pseudo-psychoanalytical words: these people reached a point in life were they are no longer bound by their repressions and unconsciousness. Everything is made conscious, every breath, every movement of the body and mind is conscious (on purpose, done with own will, not automatically due to past conditioning). I say “pseudo” because for psychoanalysis this point of personal growth or “state of being” is unreachable and only theoretical; I think that is because they have never studied someone who has reached it.
As Jesus is reported to have said: "You can enter God's Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way.”. The path of consciousness is the path of the few. But no sage has declared himself different than everybody else. Mohammad called this people the “muslims”, people who have surrendered their egos.

Is there evidence of any of this, is my point at the end of the day? NA

Some of these prophets are undisputable historical figures, others are just myth. But the reality is that they had something special that made millions of people follow them, something that a common or normal person lacks; some god-like quality.

and btw, do you know if the teachings of all the 'founders' jive with each other?NA

You would be surprised that yes, they mingle and jingle together like the notes of a beautiful song. I have read christian, muslim, buddhist and hindu scriptures and even if I have found contradictions, I also understood the point they were trying to make. Ultimately what really matters is never contradicted; and what really matters are statements that can make you grow as a human being.

 

[Me-Ki-Gal]

What's the worst that can happen? IDK - The Spanish Inquisition would suck.

Ain't that the truth . That little bit of hell did some real damage .

 

[cosmictraveler]

If you didn't believe ...

NOTHING WOULD HAPPEN

 

[Me-Ki-Gal]

I like that " Mingle and Jingle like the notes of a beautiful song part . Yeah! Way! Rock and Roll will never die . The Rockies may tumble Gibraltar may rumble there only made of clay , bur Our love is hear to stay

 

[Me-Ki-Gal]

If you didn't believe ...

NOTHING WOULD HAPPEN

The Christians will blow up your clinic. What you talking about ? It has already happened . Muslims might blow up a building . Buddhist will , I don't know what they will do , Probably sit and watch . There are lots of things that will happen . The Spanish inquisition was a great example. In to the fire . Ah ah ah ah ah ah Fire

 

[NMSquirrel]

as there is no evidence to support any of them, is to say" they can't all be right but they can all be wrong" and reject them all.

irresponsible to the discussion, to distract the question by making it about proof/evidence.the OP wasn't about proof/evidence..its about conjecture,

No as we've established there's no evidence for such a place, that we know of, anything can be imagined.

once again the OP doesn't ask for evidence, the question was not trying to establish a validity to the options..it just asked what is the 'worst' that can happen, not what is likely to happen..to dismiss an option just because you do not believe in it therefor not worth entering in any equation is irresponsible..

IE: i don't believe in ℵα, therefor if i see or hear of it i will argue that it doesn't exist,and not use it to calculate (whatever this is used to calculate..)
<represents an infinite cardinality (specifically, the α-th one, where α is an ordinal).>

you may keep your opinion that God does not exist,i won't even try to convince you that he does, but i will answer what i believe if asked,(sometimes when i am not asked) ,but remember it is my opinion as to who/what God is, not what IS the truth about God.(no one truly knows.)
(of course i think my beliefs about who/what God is closer to the truth than others..duh..thats human nature to think you know better than someone else)

if you ask a question about God, expect the answer to assume he exists..
IOW don't ask about God if all you are going to do is troll the proof/evidence argument.
thats not very intelligent as you limit your own thinking to what could be.