Whats the worst that can happen if I do not believe in god?

[NMSquirrel]

You really can't find the ultimate truth in scriptures, but scriptures do tend to lead you somewhere beyond their words if you are aware while reading.

sounds like you are saying that the scriptures teaches you to 'think for yourself' and make up your own mind.:thumbsup:

The way I read these type of literature is by integrating the teachings with my daily life, only taking in consideration that which I can relate to with my personal experience.

as it should..not 'do as your told.'

I don’t think the past, present and future prophets and messiahs are “sent” by anyone or anything. I think that these people had an inner-realization of something most people ignore due to ego-clinging and conditioning of personality by the society and environment.

well said..
evidence is testimonies,
proof is in your heart.

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

That's what I'm talking about NMSquirrel

 

[wynn]

Abandoning one's religion is an act of bravery, sincerity; on the contrary, staying in the religion you were born to just because it's convenient, is hypocritical. True religion has no sect, and if you meditate on the words of the founders of each religion, you will notice that you can't sign in to any specific religion, 'cause they were talking about an inner journey and not a dogmatic sect that worships them...

What role would you say does the community of believers play in one's own spirituality?

The Buddha said that admirable friendship in the holy life is the whole of the holy life.
Jesus also stressed the importance of associating with the like-minded, in his name.

Would you say that spirituality is primarily a solitary endeavor of studying various texts and applying some tenets from them to one's daily life?

Without taking part in an organized religious community, how can one have hope that one will atain what the various texts that one reads are promising?

 

[audible]

irresponsible to the discussion, to distract the question by making it about proof/evidence.the OP wasn't about proof/evidence..its about conjecture,

If it is about conjecture then anything can be assumed.
As was said in the very first reply "That will depend on which religion you subscribe to." and adding to that "whatever one you could conjure up"

Once again the OP doesn't ask for evidence, the question was not trying to establish a validity to the options..it just asked what is the 'worst' that can happen, not what is likely to happen..

I think you need to read the OP again, here it is in it's entirety "Let me pose this hypothetical. Assuming I was born into a certain religion and now thinking of apostacy, and my last consideration is this: If i made the leap would I be punished - and if so what would that punishment be (if any.. think ''Prodigal Son") Or if I stayed I am limited to reach my true potential due to ridiculous laws, commandments, parables, teachings aimed at keeping me 'loyal' by guilt. From a purely cerebral perspective (please no old wives tales) what should my considerations be....." You see it does ask what is likely to happen. You made more of it.
It is the thread title that asks "Whats the worst that can happen if I do not believe in god" As we have no proof of the existence of a god, then stating "nothing" is perfectly valid answer. considering he states he has no belief in a god, all these point to a preponderance of evidence that nothing will happen.

if you ask a question about God, expect the answer to assume he exists..

However I haven't asked a question about god, I've merely replied to the OP as I see it needs to be replied.

 

[lightgigantic]

Let me pose this hypothetical. Assuming I was born into a certain religion and now thinking of apostacy, and my last consideration is this: If i made the leap would I be punished - and if so what would that punishment be (if any.. think ''Prodigal Son") Or if I stayed I am limited to reach my true potential due to ridiculous laws, commandments, parables, teachings aimed at keeping me 'loyal' by guilt. From a purely cerebral perspective (please no old wives tales) what should my considerations be.....

that sometimes you get to be the hippo, other times the crocodile

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

What role would you say does the community of believers play in one's own spirituality?

I say this with no intention to offend anybody, but for me, the "community of believers" is just necesary when you believe in something you also doubt; so you need others to reinforce this. Actually belief and doubt cannot be separated easily, and with blind belief always comes the shadow of doubt.

The Buddha said that admirable friendship in the holy life is the whole of the holy life.
Jesus also stressed the importance of associating with the like-minded, in his name.

The commune is another matter, communes form when people want to live a spiritual life together, no need for belief or dogma. Everyone can follow his/her own heart. Most communes revolve around a spiritual guide; this only works if the spiritual guide has reached the realization himself (which is usually not the case). But there are also communes without a specific leader (although they read scriptures, they don't consider them "law" but just aids in the path).

A religious dogma congregation is different, they are just needed to cheer and reinforce blind belief.

When Jesus says "Gather in my name", he doesn't mean to praise him. But to gather for the goal of achieving Christ-Consciousness in this life; not in a place after death that you have to blindly believe in.

Would you say that spirituality is primarily a solitary endeavor of studying various texts and applying some tenets from them to one's daily life?

Not really, it is a solitary endeavor alright; but does not necesarily include the study of scriptures. What is really necesary is to know oneself; scriptures can help and are a very good starting point, but getting to know oneself is indeed a solitary endeavor. Faith in the sages who have achieved have proven to be a good inspiration to continue in this solitary path.
If you meditate, then you will be totally alone, even if you have people meditating around you (which actually helps), you are alone with your thoughts. And you don't need a group of people to encourage you or cheer you up, 'cause getting to know yourself is a goal into itself.

We are bound by our "incomplete past actions" or karma, or repressions; you may call it different ways, but these control most of your thoughts and therefore present actions. If you enter into this realm, you will start seing the causes of the thoughts (where they originated from) and just by seing you will be free of them. Nobody can do this for you, psycoanalisys can help, but it won't get you to the end of the road.

Without taking part in an organized religious community, how can one have hope that one will atain what the various texts that one reads are promising?

There is a Zen saying: "When the disciple is ready, the master arrives".
The work you do on yourself can only get you so far most of the times. You will see the results of your practice without the need of external guidance.
But if you reach a point where you feel that you are stuck, then a proper guide is needed.

Very few times a man reaches to the realization all by himself, most of the times a master is needed. Even Jesus had a master who guided him at the beggining of his journey (John the Baptist).

 

[NMSquirrel]

If it is about conjecture then anything can be assumed.

uf..
<realization of ironic truth..>

It is the thread title that asks "Whats the worst that can happen if I do not believe in god" As we have no proof of the existence of a god, then stating "nothing" is perfectly valid answer.

actually, i surrendered at:

Is there evidence of any of this, is my point at the end of the day?

i just forgot to tell you..

 

[NMSquirrel]

anyway..

church helps immensely when trying to read the bible,they help to provide references you can check, at least the better ones..the ones that teach 'think for yourself', the ones you have to hunt for..

biblegateway is what i use for looking up scripture online, but i would recomend a site that has multiple translations that you can compare side by side to glean a little more understanding..
E-Sword is a good program for your computer (its not an online one,but better)

 

[New Atheist]

anyway..

church helps immensely when trying to read the bible,they help to provide references you can check, at least the better ones..the ones that teach 'think for yourself', the ones you have to hunt for..

Well, not really. And here is why, the bible itself has numerous contradictions and we know it was written by a mere mortal for political reasons. Why then would we seek the answer form there?

Is there some place credible I can look to for an answer to such an important question.

 

[NMSquirrel]

Well, not really. And here is why, the bible itself has numerous contradictions and we know it was written by a mere mortal for political reasons. Why then would we seek the answer form there?

Is there some place credible I can look to for an answer to such an important question.

no matter where you go, the answers will be subjective..

i'm just saying churches are more knowledgeable as to sources of info concerning the bible..not trying to say look to the church as ultimate authority,just as a resource for reference material.

 

[wynn]

Is there some place credible I can look to for an answer to such an important question.

This is an intelligent question.

Whom can one ask important questions?
What ought one read in order to find answers to important questions?
What must one do in order to get in contact with those people or books?
How should one approach them?
How should one formulate one's questions?
What attitude should one have toward those people or books?


- these are things to think about.

 

[Lori_7]

to the op,

the worst thing is that you miss out on experiencing, and having a relationship with, god. that's because you would at least have to believe in the possibility of god existing, in order to decide whether it's a good idea to seek it out or not. and if you refuse to believe something, then you could be staring at it all day long, and still not allow yourself to recognize it.

 

[wynn]

to the op,

the worst thing is that you miss out on experiencing, and having a relationship with, god. that's because you would at least have to believe in the possibility of god existing, in order to decide whether it's a good idea to seek it out or not. and if you refuse to believe something, then you could be staring at it all day long, and still not allow yourself to recognize it.

But Lori, the OP cannot relate to that to begin with. It was probably vague advice like yours that drove him to the edge.

 

[Lori_7]

But Lori, the OP cannot relate to that to begin with. It was probably vague advice like yours that drove him to the edge.

sorry, i didn't address the op at all did i? i didn't read it. i just read the thread title.

i'm being a bad sciforums member. here, i'll give myself a spanking...:spank:

in regards to the op, i don't think that god really wants people to obey rules without not only understanding why they are what they are, but having understood why, and experienced why, actually have a conditioned desire to do the right thing. you can't fake it with god, and even if you could, it really wouldn't mean anything, you know?

at the end of the day, you have to be ok with who you are and why. you don't have to look into it. you don't have to question it if you don't want to, but a lot of people live a huge chunk of their life, or even their entire lives, not being ok with who they are, and that's really sad.

i don't think you can learn anything from following rules except how to be disciplined, which is good but, is supposed to arrive at an outcome of some sort, not just go on indefinitely with a war going on inside of you...strife, because you have to do things that you don't really want to do, and don't understand why you should have to.

from what i know about god, he wants you to be entirely free, to be the best you that you could ever be. he's not a big fan of conformity or religion as far as i can tell. god really just wants to get to know you. the real you, whoever that may be.

 

[NMSquirrel]

i don't think you can learn anything from following rules except how to be disciplined, which is good but, is supposed to arrive at an outcome of some sort, not just go on indefinitely with a war going on inside of you...strife, because you have to do things that you don't really want to do, and don't understand why you should have to.

being forced to conform whether right or wrong, increases dissension.
(i wouldn't mind paying for insurance if i wasn't forced to..same with seat belts)

from what i know about god, he wants you to be entirely free, to be the best you that you could ever be. he's not a big fan of conformity or religion as far as i can tell. god really just wants to get to know you. the real you, whoever that may be.

i agree with that 100%

 

[wynn]

sorry, i didn't address the op at all did i? i didn't read it. i just read the thread title.

i'm being a bad sciforums member. here, i'll give myself a spanking...:spank:

in regards to the op, i don't think that god really wants people to obey rules without not only understanding why they are what they are, but having understood why, and experienced why, actually have a conditioned desire to do the right thing. you can't fake it with god, and even if you could, it really wouldn't mean anything, you know?

at the end of the day, you have to be ok with who you are and why. you don't have to look into it. you don't have to question it if you don't want to, but a lot of people live a huge chunk of their life, or even their entire lives, not being ok with who they are, and that's really sad.

i don't think you can learn anything from following rules except how to be disciplined, which is good but, is supposed to arrive at an outcome of some sort, not just go on indefinitely with a war going on inside of you...strife, because you have to do things that you don't really want to do, and don't understand why you should have to.

from what i know about god, he wants you to be entirely free, to be the best you that you could ever be. he's not a big fan of conformity or religion as far as i can tell. god really just wants to get to know you. the real you, whoever that may be.

I find this vague as well.

My point isn't that there should be focus on rules, as you seem to suggest.

It is that for many people, "look within", "you have to be ok with who you are and why", "he wants you to be entirely free, to be the best you that you could ever be" and such are extremely vague notions that they don't know what to do with, and they just frustrate them.

Perhaps for you and some others, these things are easy to understand, but for many people they are not.
And perhaps you are unable to understand how anyone could not understand these things.

One cannot make oneself understand them by somehow gritting one's teeth, thinking "I am okay with who I am - whatever that means".

Hence the importance of philosophy.

And please, spare us wit "God is easy for the simple-minded, and hard for the crooked" and the like. It may be true, but it doesn't help anyone.

 

[Lori_7]

I find this vague as well.

My point isn't that there should be focus on rules, as you seem to suggest.

i was addressing the op. that was my response to the op, not to you. in response to you, i was elaborating.

It is that for many people, "look within", "you have to be ok with who you are and why", "he wants you to be entirely free, to be the best you that you could ever be" and such are extremely vague notions that they don't know what to do with, and they just frustrate them.

Perhaps for you and some others, these things are easy to understand, but for many people they are not.
And perhaps you are unable to understand how anyone could not understand these things.

One cannot make oneself understand them by somehow gritting one's teeth, thinking "I am okay with who I am - whatever that means".

Hence the importance of philosophy.

And please, spare us wit "God is easy for the simple-minded, and hard for the crooked" and the like. It may be true, but it doesn't help anyone.

i didn't say it was easy. :shrug:

 

[New Atheist]

But Lori, the OP cannot relate to that to begin with. It was probably vague advice like yours that drove him to the edge.

It's not a laughing matter, but I have to say - that has me in stitches. But to clarify, seriously, it wasn't a reason, but it sure was a catalyst.

 

[New Atheist]

sorry, i didn't address the op at all did i? i didn't read it. i just read the thread title.

i'm being a bad sciforums member. here, i'll give myself a spanking...:spank:

in regards to the op, i don't think that god really wants people to obey rules without not only understanding why they are what they are, but having understood why, and experienced why, actually have a conditioned desire to do the right thing. you can't fake it with god, and even if you could, it really wouldn't mean anything, you know?

at the end of the day, you have to be ok with who you are and why. you don't have to look into it. you don't have to question it if you don't want to, but a lot of people live a huge chunk of their life, or even their entire lives, not being ok with who they are, and that's really sad.

i don't think you can learn anything from following rules except how to be disciplined, which is good but, is supposed to arrive at an outcome of some sort, not just go on indefinitely with a war going on inside of you...strife, because you have to do things that you don't really want to do, and don't understand why you should have to.

from what i know about god, he wants you to be entirely free, to be the best you that you could ever be. he's not a big fan of conformity or religion as far as i can tell. god really just wants to get to know you. the real you, whoever that may be.

You say " i don't thinks god really wants people to obey rules without... understanding what they are...understanding why...conditioned to do the right thing..." but isn't that the exact opposite of what Abrahamic religions teach. "Do as he says without question or perish." Also, if you say that then would the opposite be true. i.e. I do not understand the reasons agains apostasy, thus there are no implications?

I am really ok with who I am by the way, and it is a very new feeling. Before I had the epiphany, I was not happy with who I was. Constantly wondering what I am going to say at confession. I wish I had all those times back. and you are right... that is sad, do you think I will teach this to the next generation - not a chance, we teach our kids to love and live life - not be caught up with an invisible fairy tale.

i don't think god (if there is such a creation singularity) wants to get to know me, why not the other 6billion people, what about horses, cats and dogs and ants and apes. Does he want to get to know all of them? Or is he something we created to sooth ourselves from our mistakes and the inevitable end.

Anyone catching my drift?

 

[New Atheist]

And please, spare us wit "God is easy for the simple-minded, and hard for the crooked" and the like. It may be true, but it doesn't help anyone.

I think its the crooked who need the 'Get out of Jail Free Card that gods seem to offer through tithes, donations, gifts, confession/penance, etc etc. God being for the simple minded may be true as simple natural concepts just "does not compute" But for those who can think - the logic, rules and commandments do not stand up to scrutiny.