Whats the worst that can happen if I do not believe in god?
- Thread starter New Atheist
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New Atheist
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Cool. Would you mind naming one (or more) that provides a simple, logical, provable answer?
um..
one..works will not save anyone..it is easy to go through the motions (tithes,donations,gifts,etc)
it doesn't require any intelligence to create routine..
two..commandments doesn't stand up to scrutiny???
don't steal
don't kill
don't screw someone elses wife..
how is this not valid?
Nice editing, NMSquirrel, I guess you can't defend all of them can you?
only if i remember all of them....
If by "provable", you mean 'provable by mainstream Western science', then you are already impliyng that you have taken that science as your religion. So you should look there, not elsewhere.
IOW, gain clarity on your own criteria for what you consider "valid," "relevant," "sound," "good," and then take your search from there, as this way, you will know where and what to look for.
Utter rubbish, I doubt he's into redefining words and there meaning, like you are. Just be honest and answer the man.
New Atheist
Registered Member
No, by "proving" I mean by the standards required for a human being to believe - Western, Asian, Alaskan - doesn't matter. I have not taken science as my religion. I take no religion. But it so happens that scientific forums should provide sufficent scientific arguments for or agains an OP, after all isnt that how ideas flow. Who knows, maybe I have an epiphany and become religious or you gain enlightenment and come to the conclusion that there is no god. I am open to that, are you?
I agree about gaining clarity and I think it is important enough to collaborate with people of like and opposing minds to air the differences. Isnt that why we are here?
New Atheist
Registered Member
I won't. I will not blindly eject fact. I am in search of truth not interested in making a point.
You should look into the mystic poetry of Mevlana Rumi (Sufi mystic), or the writings of Francis of Assisi (Christian mystic).
To gain a different perspective of religion:
The Dhammapada is a very good starting point for learning about Buddhist phylosophy.
The "Tao te Ching" is a beautiful scripture credited to Lao-Tzu (Father of Taoism).
I would suggest a book that doesn't seem to have much to do with the topic directly, but which I nonetheless find useful for developing one's approach to spiritual topics:
The Gifts of Imperfection: Let Go of Who You Think You're Supposed to Be and Embrace Who You Are
The author is a social scientist and uses current research to present her ideas.
The Gifts of Imperfection: Let Go of Who You Think You're Supposed to Be and Embrace Who You Are
The author is a social scientist and uses current research to present her ideas.
New Atheist
Registered Member
Thank you Wisdom Seeker. I think we are finally getting somewhere. I will make it a point to add this to my reading list. Have you by any chance had any Eureka moments in your quest? What made you decide there is a god - sorry i cant think of some cerebral way to phrase it.
New Atheist
Registered Member
The title alone already jumps out and appeals to my way of thinking so, I hope the contents is just as good. Thank you.
I have always had a soft spot for christian mysticism myself and some of the wisdom it imparts.
No problem; I'm looking forward to discuss them with you when you read them
.I don't know if I would call them Eureka moments, but once my understanding of many religions grew I found myself being captured by an overwhelming feeling that came to me in certain moments.Have you by any chance had any Eureka moments in your quest? What made you decide there is a god - sorry i cant think of some cerebral way to phrase it.
I can give you one example: you can read the New Testament superficially, and I did use to read it superficially when I was younger. I now realize I didn’t quite understand it until I studied many other religions and philosophies. When I felt that my understanding was higher (not only by reading, but applying certain teachings in my life), I re-read the NT with a different “light”. During my listening to an audio book of the “Sermon on the Mount” while sitting in semi-lotus posture with my eyes closed, my heart was filled with joy and tears were running through my face. I cannot describe this feeling very accurately, and I cannot find a better word for it than “Love”; but it is a very strange kind of Love, because it is not directed to anyone or any object in particular. Love is there, that is undeniable; but as to why, and how I don’t know the start of it.
It is like one of those feelings that you can only enjoy, the idea does not come into your mind to question it. It happens as an inner-realization of one’s truth I guess (like a thief in the night, without notice).
I have not decided anything really; I decided many things when I was younger but I know now that spirituality is never static, as in having the final answer for something. At least for me it isn’t.What made you decide there is a god - sorry i cant think of some cerebral way to phrase it.
And by personal experience I know that is very easy to believe in something, it gives a sense of stability and you can then focus on other things. If you have already decided that god exists (or decided he is not), then you will cease to look for “him/it”; and I somehow feel that spirituality is a never-ending search.
I recall something Buddha said, something like Human Beings have a “desiring quality” for completion, which comes from the sense of imperfection. In order to mitigate this desire, we create many imaginary objects of desire (some seek for material goals and some for spiritual goals) and there is where we miss the point. Buddha said that desire is not the problem, the problem is the imaginary objects of desire that we create; and that after full enlightenment the objects of desire disappear, while the desire remains, it is your true nature (pure, uncorrupted desire).
Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.