What It Means To Be A Christian

[TruthSeeker]

Raithere,

Really? Then please show the passage to me. The term "original sin" is not used once in the Bible. God did indeed punish all of us by casting 'us' out of the Garden of Eden and so forth but there is no mention of sin being automatically assigned to us for one of our ancestors actions.

There is no "original sin" in the Bible. That's why I've put it in quotation marks...

And God didn't punish us. We went against His Word and we had to leave. Besides, what we receive is an inheritance of the nature of sin. We are predisposed to sin because of that first sin. It is not that that sin is assigned to us, it is just that sin passes from generation to generation.

This is once again Paul speaking and so I question it's validity in any case but I still see no mention of original sin. What I do see is the statement that the flesh is weak, therefore God sent his son as an offering; to pay the price of redemption for us. It was not meant as a 'Get out of jail free' card.

Whoever accepts the free gift of God is granted eternal life. Original sin... I already answered that.

I think you're close here. I think what he was saying is that because the flesh is weak we are, most likely, going to fail and break the law but even if we do we can be forgiven and redeemed. That is not the same thing as saying that the laws no longer apply.

I didn't say the Law doesn't apply anymore, I just said that we are not under it, subjected to it.

Btw... you seem to know the Word quite well... I wonder why...

I think that this was the most important lesson he taught; that if one always acts in love one will be following the law. Further, he was saying that those who follow the letter of the law, yet are against it in their hearts, are hypocrites and are actually breaking the law. As he said (and I'm paraphrasing here), even if you do not fuck your neighbors wife, if you walk around every day lusting after her you are still breaking the law. He was saying that the law is about more than one's actions, it involves one's mind and heart... but he was not saying that it was only about the mind and heart.

I agree with that.

Please note that these are John's words (or so we assume). What Jesus said was, "John 15:12
"This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you."

Jesus never said, "Believe in me or die/burn in Hell." That was added to the doctine much later on. What he did say was; Believe in me and in what I say, follow the commandments with your heart, and love each other as I love you and you will find Heaven/be rewarded/have eternal life.

I used to believe that too. However:

Mark 16:16-18
"16 "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
17 "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;
18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover." "

Also, it is written that whoever believe that He is raised from the dead shall be saved.

Again, please show me where Jesus says we do not have to follow the law?

He never tells us NOT ot follow the Law, He only tells us that we are free from it.

Romans 6:14
"14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace. "

Romans 8:2
"2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. "

THOSE are the scriptures which I'm speaking about.

There is a crucial issue here for Christians and it is a source of quite some disagreement, though I think you have resolved it fairly well. It seems that the original apostles and Paul had some disagreements. Paul tends to stress faith while the others tend to stress works/law. One of the primary reasons for this is that Paul was much more involved with converting gentiles. And one of the gentiles' main issues with conversion was circumcision. This is easy enough to understand; "Yea, that all sounds great. How do I join? (long pause) I have to do what?" Paul therefore took the position that circumcision was not mandatory.

Paul never disagreed with the other apostles. They speak of the same thing, though with their own personality. If you read the four golspels and someone reads a scripture for you from one of the, you can probably recognize who wrote it! That doesn't mean that they speak something different, that just means they use different words.

John, James and Peter don't just stress works and law. They also talk about faith:

James 2:17
"17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. "

James 1:6
"6 But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind."

James 5:14-15
"14 Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord;
15 and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him. "

1 Peter 1:6-9
"6 In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials,
7 so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
8 and though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,
9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls. "

1 John 5:4
"4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. "

Those are just some examples. The last one in John stress A LOT the importance of faith. The scripture of Peter says that without faith, we can't even be saved. So they also stress faith as Paul does.

Despite the fact that Jesus pointed out that circumcision was more important than 'technically' keeping the Sabbath:

John 7:23
"If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath so that the Law of Moses will not be broken, are you angry with Me because I made an entire man well on the Sabbath?"

Before His death, that was the only way to save a person, or actually, TRY to save someone, since that person had to keep the Law. But after Jesus died and was raised from the dead; now, in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means nothing, but faith working through Love.

 

[TruthSeeker]

SnakeLord,

Happy 200 posts...

I quoted three lines..... don't be so quick to jump to conclusion. However, either way you're not in a position to label this as any less valid than your story. And like i said considering there's a gap of over a millennium between these two many changes in story would occur.

I was just pointing out the differences...

And the gods put man to work in the gardens of their 'house of purity' and thus the story was handed down to the bible authors, (badly translated of course).

Not that. What made sense was how the words are bulit...:bugeye:

1 god or a hundred gods is irrelevant. You are no different to ancient people. You adopt their beliefs of worship when it remains there might not even be a god- only thing that states there is are documents of people thousands of years ago who had no science. They did not understand many of the things we now take for granted. You keep yourself in line with shepherds of old because being a modern man is what.... too difficult?

Of course there IS relevance wheter is only one god or hundreds....
Being a modern man is not difficult. It is just that what is written in the Bible is very helpful. Like faith working trough Love, let all things be done in Love and faith without works is dead by itself. There is wisdom in those words. They basically say that if you don't believe you can do something, you are already defeated. They also say that if we believe we can do something and just sit down and don't do it, it won't happen by itself. Those things are good guidelines for living a healthy, happy and successful life.

Easy as that heh?

Well yeah...
...Are you Canadian...?

I have always been an open searching 'agnostic'. Simply being on this forum listening to you people is turning me further away from the possibility of there being a god.

And why? Have you looked for the evidence I gave you?

 

[MooseKnuckle]

TruthSeeker-

And God didn't punish us. We went against His Word and we had to leave. Besides, what we receive is an inheritance of the nature of sin. We are predisposed to sin because of that first sin. It is not that that sin is assigned to us, it is just that sin passes from generation to generation.

"We" didnt go against anything, I love this particular line of thought- Punish many for the actions of few. That rational is the kind that makes people think all muslims are to blame for the terrorist's actions. Genes pass from generation to generation not sin. I thought one of the messages of religion is that people are responsible for their actions and thus they are the ones who either sin or do not sin. Others are not pinned with something they had no say in. Its called the responsible party.

WE didnt do any such thing. So does God say "hey look...I know each and every one of you would have done the exact same, therefore you will get no chance to live free from sin, Sorry they ruined it for all of you, too bad."

Sorry for the tone, a little brash but the point remains the same. Really though, that idea is such a sham, forgiveness? where does that fit in? Dont we get second chances with God? How does the situation with adam and Eve differ from any other people. Why was this particular instance of such importance that a failure to comply would have a chain reaction lasting throughout generations of humanity. If a current human being goes against God the reprecussions are no where near as extreme and dare I say......Unfair?

 

[SnakeLord]

Happy 200 posts...

Oooooooh, do i get a cake or something?! Oh nm this'll do: :m:

Don't argue! My mother always told me to have my vegetables!!

Not that. What made sense was how the words are bulit...

Boooo

Of course there IS relevance wheter is only one god or hundreds....

Well... i really don't think so. Take for instance the people born way way before Jesus on the other side of the world that believed in a god/gods. I think the very fact they believed in an almighty is good enough- or should be good enough for your god. They searched as well as you have and to deny them would be a tad malicious. Ok, deny us foolish, sinning mofo non-believers but the poor old people of ancient times?? They're harmless.

Being a modern man is not difficult. It is just that what is written in the Bible is very helpful. Like faith working trough Love, let all things be done in Love and faith without works is dead by itself. There is wisdom in those words. They basically say that if you don't believe you can do something, you are already defeated. They also say that if we believe we can do something and just sit down and don't do it, it won't happen by itself. Those things are good guidelines for living a healthy, happy and successful life.

Ok a nice black book of moralistic behaviour. That is nice and helpful however most people do have the ability to work out good morals and sense of direction without the need for that book. If you do need a book to guide you whats wrong with I-Ching? People always come to a stage where they need guidance. Some choose religion, some choose tarot, some choose psychiatrists. None of them are wrong. If it helps so be it. BUT!! from a scientific and learning perspective things such as god/tarot/star signs are somewhat debateable because they cannot be proven. It may very well help you like a shrink does but science is more interested in the facts instead of the heresay. Nothing is to suggest they aren't real but nothing is to suggest they are. Some people are willing to just have 'faith'. Some of us require more. Can you, can your god just condemn people for that? Again that would be somewhat malicious.

Well yeah...
...Are you Canadian...?

Nope. English. However I might have been Canadian in a past life-who knows.

And why? Have you looked for the evidence I gave you?

I look at everything. I assume you and god are happy with me looking at evidence and looking for answers? If so how can anyone condemn me if i don't manage to find those answers in my lifetime? The evidence i've seen through my entire life does not and cannot show proof of a god. I will not just make that 'leap of faith'. I am committed to more than that- and making the most of my life. Simple acceptance is not an option.

 

[TruthSeeker]

MooseKnuckle,

"We" didnt go against anything, I love this particular line of thought- Punish many for the actions of few. That rational is the kind that makes people think all muslims are to blame for the terrorist's actions. Genes pass from generation to generation not sin. I thought one of the messages of religion is that people are responsible for their actions and thus they are the ones who either sin or do not sin. Others are not pinned with something they had no say in. Its called the responsible party.

Balance is important. I don't say that sin pass from generation to generation so you are guilty of it. Neither I say that we are not responsible for our actions. What I say is that because of what was done in the past, the probability of us to sin is much greater.

WE didnt do any such thing. So does God say "hey look...I know each and every one of you would have done the exact same, therefore you will get no chance to live free from sin, Sorry they ruined it for all of you, too bad."

No, He does the exact opposite. He gives you a new hope through Christ so that you may be saved. Then, when you ask Him for forgiveness He will tell you that there is nothing to be forgiven of, that all sins are already forgiven. If you can live a perfect life without sinning, then you don't need Christ. Can you live a perfect life?

Sorry for the tone, a little brash but the point remains the same. Really though, that idea is such a sham, forgiveness? where does that fit in? Dont we get second chances with God? How does the situation with adam and Eve differ from any other people. Why was this particular instance of such importance that a failure to comply would have a chain reaction lasting throughout generations of humanity. If a current human being goes against God the reprecussions are no where near as extreme and dare I say......Unfair?

He GAVE us a second chance. He gave up His Son so that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. Our sins are already forgiven. Those that we did in the past and those that we will do in the future. ALL forgiven, as long as we accept this forgiveness.

 

[TruthSeeker]

SnakeLord,

Don't argue! My mother always told me to have my vegetables!!

Why would I argue?

Boooo

Interesting answer...

Well... i really don't think so. Take for instance the people born way way before Jesus on the other side of the world that believed in a god/gods. I think the very fact they believed in an almighty is good enough- or should be good enough for your god. They searched as well as you have and to deny them would be a tad malicious. Ok, deny us foolish, sinning mofo non-believers but the poor old people of ancient times?? They're harmless.

Acts 17:23
"23 "For while I was passing through and examining the objects of your worship, I also found an altar with this inscription, 'TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.' Therefore what you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you. "

They did seek God, they just didn't know where to find Him. God sent Christ so that everyone could have the opportunity to be saved. This is not like God only letting those who know Him go into Heaven, it is just that those that don't know Him don't know where to find Heaven, that's all.

Ok a nice black book of moralistic behaviour. That is nice and helpful however most people do have the ability to work out good morals and sense of direction without the need for that book. If you do need a book to guide you whats wrong with I-Ching? People always come to a stage where they need guidance. Some choose religion, some choose tarot, some choose psychiatrists. None of them are wrong. If it helps so be it. BUT!! from a scientific and learning perspective things such as god/tarot/star signs are somewhat debateable because they cannot be proven. It may very well help you like a shrink does but science is more interested in the facts instead of the heresay. Nothing is to suggest they aren't real but nothing is to suggest they are. Some people are willing to just have 'faith'. Some of us require more. Can you, can your god just condemn people for that? Again that would be somewhat malicious.

It seems you are so used with blind faith that you don't understand the significance of real faith. Real faith is the power that flow through us in order to do things. You need faith even to turn on the computer. If you have the comptuer and know how to turn it on, you can have faith that when you press the button, it will turn on. However, if you don't know that by pressing the button it will turn on, then you cannot have faith that it will turn on. In the other hand, if you know it can be turned on and have faith in it, but you don't act in that faith to turn it on, it won't be turned on all by itself. So you see...:
Wisdom----leads to---->Faith----leads to--->Works

Nope. English. However I might have been Canadian in a past life-who knows.

... o-k....

I look at everything. I assume you and god are happy with me looking at evidence and looking for answers? If so how can anyone condemn me if i don't manage to find those answers in my lifetime? The evidence i've seen through my entire life does not and cannot show proof of a god. I will not just make that 'leap of faith'. I am committed to more than that- and making the most of my life. Simple acceptance is not an option.

There is no condemnation. The thing is that if you don't know God, you cannot simply be in His presence after this life.

Did you go to any conference at all, as I suggested you too?

 

[MooseKnuckle]

TruthSeeker-

Thanks for the to the point answers

He gave up His Son so that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Why did he need to give up his son so we could have eternal life?

 

[SnakeLord]

Why would I argue?

It was English humour, don't worry about it.

They did seek God, they just didn't know where to find Him. God sent Christ so that everyone could have the opportunity to be saved. This is not like God only letting those who know Him go into Heaven, it is just that those that don't know Him don't know where to find Heaven, that's all.

They did seek god they just didn't know where to find him..... Ok firstly what's to say they didn't find god? If alive they would probably guarantee you they did, just like you do now. You're hardly in a position to say they're wrong, or that their god is false. Who's to say your god is real and odin, (whoever/whatever), is a fake? You cannot make that assumption. Secondly if they didn't find him it's because they weren't shown. As such they can be held at no fault if they failed.

God sent Christ so that everyone could have the opportunity to be saved.... Except anyone who was alive before the arrival of jesus and believed in a different god, or as you put it: didn't find him.

This is not like God only letting those who know Him go into Heaven ............. Ok, it's not?

it is just that those that don't know Him don't know where to find Heaven ........... Lol. All boils down to the same thing.

It seems you are so used with blind faith that you don't understand the significance of real faith.

Eh? oh you have 'real' faith compared to everyone else who just has 'blind' faith. I see now. But you've known yours was real since you were three and heard voices so it must be right? You're hardly in a position to make such a baseless assumption. "Mine is real, others are fake" <------- again more pompous self righteous attitude that is at the very core of religion.

Real faith is the power that flow through us in order to do things. You need faith even to turn on the computer. If you have the comptuer and know how to turn it on, you can have faith that when you press the button, it will turn on. However, if you don't know that by pressing the button it will turn on, then you cannot have faith that it will turn on. In the other hand, if you know it can be turned on and have faith in it, but you don't act in that faith to turn it on, it won't be turned on all by itself. So you see...:
Wisdom----leads to---->Faith----leads to--->Works

*snore* That's the best you can do? To attempt to symbolise some sort of link between believing in an invisible all powerful entity offering eternal life to some pathetic little creatures he created and turning a computer on?? Keep it in the right frame of discussion please.

More to the point would be

Faith in a life creating all powerful being who wrote a book, had a son who died for all of mankind, and if we love him and his son we get eternal life or....

Faith in our tarot cards telling us we're gonna be rich by the end of the week, dead by the end of the month and pregnant by next year. or maybe.....

Faith that in our eternal life we'll sail off into heaven, our organs will be replaced and we will sit with the sun god Ra...

All of these are nothing more than blind ideas, hopes and desires that stem from the root of insecurity. It's not to say they're false- but there is absolutely nothing to say they're true either. It might very well be your own personal little truth but it is by no means 'real' truth. It is pure faith- you might consider your faith as real against other faiths but i can guarantee you they're all the same which is: Something that requires absolutely no proof or credible evidence.

So, going back to my post i will restate some of us require more than your own brains little assumption of what is real and what isn't. As such we will not just accept something on 'blind' faith or your translated version: 'real' faith.

Lack of wisdom----leads to---->Faith----leads to---->Self righteousness.

There is no condemnation

ok.....

The thing is that if you don't know God, you cannot simply be in His presence after this life.

Lol. That's being condemned. If we weren't comdemned i'm sure god would let us get to know him once we'd already died.

 

[TruthSeeker]

MooseKnuckle,

Why did he need to give up his son so we could have eternal life?

Because everyone sins, and the wages of sin is death.

 

[TruthSeeker]

SnakeLord,

Ok firstly what's to say they didn't find god? If alive they would probably guarantee you they did, just like you do now. You're hardly in a position to say they're wrong, or that their god is false. Who's to say your god is real and odin, (whoever/whatever), is a fake? You cannot make that assumption. Secondly if they didn't find him it's because they weren't shown. As such they can be held at no fault if they failed.

The other gods are made just by hands. They are simply objects. But God is pretty alive...

Except anyone who was alive before the arrival of jesus and believed in a different god, or as you put it: didn't find him.

God spoke to many people before Jesus. And wasn't just the Jews.

Eh? oh you have 'real' faith compared to everyone else who just has 'blind' faith. I see now. But you've known yours was real since you were three and heard voices so it must be right? You're hardly in a position to make such a baseless assumption. "Mine is real, others are fake" <------- again more pompous self righteous attitude that is at the very core of religion.

First of all this kind of faith I have is not just mine, many people have. Second, "blind faith" is the faith that simply says soemthing and do nothing about it, while "real faith" goes there and accomplish it.

*snore* That's the best you can do? To attempt to symbolise some sort of link between believing in an invisible all powerful entity offering eternal life to some pathetic little creatures he created and turning a computer on?? Keep it in the right frame of discussion please.

Yes, it is that simple.

All of these are nothing more than blind ideas, hopes and desires that stem from the root of insecurity. It's not to say they're false- but there is absolutely nothing to say they're true either. It might very well be your own personal little truth but it is by no means 'real' truth. It is pure faith- you might consider your faith as real against other faiths but i can guarantee you they're all the same which is: Something that requires absolutely no proof or credible evidence.

I'm not insecure. I just found something that you haven't that's all.

So, going back to my post i will restate some of us require more than your own brains little assumption of what is real and what isn't. As such we will not just accept something on 'blind' faith or your translated version: 'real' faith.

No assumptions at all... It is pretty real...

Lol. That's being condemned. If we weren't comdemned i'm sure god would let us get to know him once we'd already died.

No. Because He would appear rigth in front of you and you would probably not believe at all.

 

[SnakeLord]

The other gods are made just by hands. They are simply objects. But God is pretty alive...

They say exactly the same about yours. Yours is just some pages in a book made by hands. Simply an object. Their god is pretty alive.

Neither of you convinces me, and neither of you has more substance than the other.

God spoke to many people before Jesus. And wasn't just the Jews.

Many gods spoke to many people and still do. What's your point? The fact remains no belief in a god/gods holds more credibility over any of the others.

First of all this kind of faith I have is not just mine, many people have. Second, "blind faith" is the faith that simply says soemthing and do nothing about it, while "real faith" goes there and accomplish it.

O...k. Many people have faith in other things.... Again yours holds no more credibility over theirs. As for accomplishing... Tell me what you've accomplished. Then tell me how that would be any more credible than the same accomplishment that has been performed by every different faith on the planet.

Yes, it is that simple.

To a simple mind perhaps.

I'm not insecure.

Yes you are. Everyone is.

I just found something that you haven't that's all

Yeah you have..... a faith in something without anything to suggest it as being real. I've found something you haven't aswell. It's called open mindedness. My lifes motto is 'might be, might not be'- yours is: 'im right.' As proof of this:

No assumptions at all... It is pretty real...

However i do wonder why you say 'pretty' real.... does that signify not really real or what? Or your subconcious mind is fighting you to regain control over your slavery into blind faith?

No. Because He would appear rigth in front of you and you would probably not believe at all.

I don't neccessarily believe in vampires but if i saw one i'd run for the garlic. Like i said my life's motto is 'might be, might not' and as such i consider anything possible and am always prepared to be enlightened when the truth comes to pass. That's what an open mind is.

 

[Horseman42]

TruthSeeker,

There is no condemnation. The thing is that if you don't know God, you cannot simply be in His presence after this life.

Right so if I don't believe god exists and don't come to know him I cannot go to "heaven" when I die. Then why doesn't God just appear and prove to me that he exists? Surely and all-powerful, being that wants everyone to find him and come to heaven with him when they die would be able to prove his existance.

Surely he must know (as he's all-knowing) what it would take to prove to a simple mortal like myself of his existance. You cannot say this has happened as there are many people who don't believe in God.

I understand SnakeLord has been keeping you busy, but I was wondering when you were getting around to responding to my last post.


Horseman42

 

[TruthSeeker]

Horseman42,

Luke 16:19-31
"19 "Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day.
20 "And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores,
21 and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man's table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores.
22 "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.
23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'
25 "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.
26 'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.'
27 "And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house--
28 for I have five brothers--in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
29 "But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.'
30 "But he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!'
31 "But he said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.'"

If God would appear right in from of you, I'm pretty sure you would come up with a "logical" explanation...

 

[MooseKnuckle]

Because everyone sins, and the wages of sin is death.

I thought that we can confess our sins and we will be forgiven?

31 "But he said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.'"

So Moses and the Prophets were supposedly more convincing than evidence? Look at this from another point of view- Science- a scientist goes around telling everyone of this remarkable new theory that he devised. Now this theory was pretty remarkable, so it was only logical that people wanted more than mere testimony to be convinced of its legitamacy. The scientist should not admit defeat and cry about how nobody believes him, instead he should get some common sense and prove how he was correct, this could be done through mathematical equations and the like. Still many people would remain skeptical, as they should be, so then the Scientist decides to conduct some experiments. The scientist would not give up after just stating his theory and proclaiming its validity and say "well these stupid people have no idea" so ill leave them in the dark and keep the strategic information to myself because they upset me by not just blindly accepting what I say to be correct.

How can you blame people for wanting evidence? A claim NEEDS to be supported by evidence, otherwise it is still speculation.

 

[TruthSeeker]

SnakeLord,

They say exactly the same about yours. Yours is just some pages in a book made by hands. Simply an object. Their god is pretty alive.

Well... not really...

O...k. Many people have faith in other things.... Again yours holds no more credibility over theirs. As for accomplishing... Tell me what you've accomplished. Then tell me how that would be any more credible than the same accomplishment that has been performed by every different faith on the planet.

Not much really... I'm just 19 years old and I don't have many interests...

However i do wonder why you say 'pretty' real.... does that signify not really real or what? Or your subconcious mind is fighting you to regain control over your slavery into blind faith?

"Pretty" means "very". Just common everyday language...

 

[TruthSeeker]

MooseKnuckle,

I thought that we can confess our sins and we will be forgiven?

Yeah, but then you sin again and you need to be forgiven again, unless you have accepted Christ in your heart. If you don't understand that, you migh have some difficulty understanding me. Better study more and then come back...

 

[MooseKnuckle]

Yeah, but then you sin again and you need to be forgiven again, unless you have accepted Christ in your heart. If you don't understand that, you migh have some difficulty understanding me. Better study more and then come back...

I understand what you are saying, dont worry its not quantum mechanics.......but what I don't understand is why does God only forgive the religious? Has does asking for forgiveness have any bearing on the action itself. A sin is a sin? is it not? Why does it matter if you accept Jesus? Arent you as deservant of the consequence as the other, non christian person. A crime is a crime, but somehow his "favorites" get better treatment for simply accepting Jesus Christ into their belief systems.

Shouldn't the Christian be punished more harshly?? I mean they believe in God and the heaven and hell concept, so aren't their actions in direct defience of God.

 

[New Life]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
Christianism is about New Testament and NOT Old Testament:
Have you ever wondered why the Bible is divided between "New Testament" and "Old Testament"? Why is that? Very simple, because they are two separate things that don't relate to each other. So what is written in the Old Testament has nothing to do with us. In the words of Christ Himself:

Luke 5:36-39
"36 And He was also telling them a parable: "No one tears a piece of cloth from a new garment and puts it on an old garment; otherwise he will both tear the new, and the piece from the new will not match the old.
37 "And no one puts new wine into old wineskins; otherwise the new wine will burst the skins and it will be spilled out, and the skins will be ruined.
38 "But new wine must be put into fresh wineskins.
39 "And no one, after drinking old wine wishes for new; for he says, 'The old is good enough.'"

The parable says that the Old Testament and the New one cannot be mixed together.

I disagree. The Old Testament provides us with the background and history of God's choosen people, Isreal. Also there is much wisdom to be found in the Psalms, Proverbs, Songs of Solomon, etc. One cannot fully understand the christian faith unless they understand BOTH testaments.
The Jews follow only the Old Testament, so you would think that christians would only follow the New Testament, but that isnt the case. There is a reason that God put both testaments together to make the Bible. If we didnt look also at the OT we would have very little proof for Jesus being the messiah as we would have none of the prophesies to look at.
The OT provides the context and background for the NT, as christians we cannot dismiss one just because some of the laws changed. we are still to follow the 10 commandments, which are found in the OT.
So I dont think you can follow just one, we as christians must study and use both testaments

 

[New Life]

Originally posted by MooseKnuckle
I understand what you are saying, dont worry its not quantum mechanics.......but what I don't understand is why does God only forgive the religious? Has does asking for forgiveness have any bearing on the action itself. A sin is a sin? is it not? Why does it matter if you accept Jesus? Arent you as deservant of the consequence as the other, non christian person. A crime is a crime, but somehow his "favorites" get better treatment for simply accepting Jesus Christ into their belief systems.

Shouldn't the Christian be punished more harshly?? I mean they believe in God and the heaven and hell concept, so aren't their actions in direct defience of God.

maybe I can help a bit with this, we just studied it in youth group.

There are two types of 'sanctification' (being made pure or holy), there is POSITIONAL sanctification and PROGRESSIVE sanctification. Positional is where we get on God's happy side for all of eternity, and we cant lose that position that we hold (ie we sin by fighting with someone then die on the way home before we have a chance to ask forgivness, but because we are followers of Christ we go to heaven anyway). A diagram:

(God's happy side) | (God's upset side)
|
I've accepted Christ | I have not accepted Christ
and now I'm on this | and am stuck without God
side with God for all |
eternity |

As I understand it, we get Positional sanctification when we accept Jesus as our Lord and Saviour and ask forgivness for our sins in His name.

Progressive sanctification comes AFTER positional. Each time we sin we ask forgivness for that sin and we get forgiven. Sinning once becoming a christian does not condem you to hell but instead puts up communication barriers between you and God. so we ask forgivness so that we can talk without that standing in our way..... we may have lost communication briefly, but we never lost our position. We remain 'holy' throughout it. However, those who havent accept Christ dont have the position yet, so they are already going to hell, sinning again isnt going to change that. I also dont believe that they will be forgiven each time they ask for it until they accept Jesus and His death as their attonment, and gain that 'position'.

Check it out in Hebrews 10:1-18.

 

[Horseman42]

TruthSeeker,

If God would appear right in from of you, I'm pretty sure you would come up with a "logical" explanation...

Did you even read what I posted before?
Ok let me spell it out for you exactly then.

1) God is all-powerful
2) God is all-knowing
3) God is all-good

I'm sure we can agree on these three points

3) God wants all to come to heaven (being all-good)
4) In order to be accepted in to heaven you need to believe God
exists, or at least come to know him.(you say)
5) God knows what it would take to convince anyone what it takes to believe is his existance (being all-knowing), and is able to carry it out (because he's all powerful)
6) God hasn't sufficiently done this (as evidenced by other
religions & beliefs)

Go ahead and explain and enlighten me please!

Just for the record I do believe in God, but I'm very unsure if the Christian religion has all the details right.


Horseman42