I'm just trying to find out why people believe what they do. No offense intended.
What is your belief regarding the existence of "God"?
- Thread starter SolusCado
- Start date
The Bible actually says that prayers will be answered if they are according to "God's Will". For me, God's Will is synonymous with the laws of the universe, so you would never be able to distinguish between prayers that are answered and those things that just happened according to the laws of physics. The mechanism would in fact be the standard laws of physics, and as such yes, his presence (if it were to be measured by physical reactions) would be indistinguishable from his absence. However, almost any Christian will tell you that his presence has been felt not by something physical that happened to them but by the emotional change they felt in their (soul/heart/consciousness).
I think plenty would argue that finding the giant gold bible would be evidence that early man was indeed influenced by alien visitors. That the bible was written by ancient jews is irrelevant if they were influenced by these aliens. I get the point you are trying to make, but I think it is the other way around. Evidence of God cannot be physical, and any suggestions of evidence can always be explained with other things.
Name one.
As long as said deviations don't impede on the will of others, who cares?
But it isn't murder to kill a cow. It is murder to kill a human, which the vast majority of humans agree is wrong. Pro-lifers believe that life begins at conception. A soul has nothing to do with it. You don't see pro-choicers arguing that its okay to kill a 30yr old, do you?
Thank you for that, but I'm not actually offended. None of the questions so far have been related to why I believe what I do though. I can answer that far more directly.
I believe the universe was created by SOMETHING because it is easier to conceive than a universe that sprang from nothing.
I still cannot conceive of a creator with no beginning, but if we are to describe this creator as "God" then at least there is a reason as to why I cannot conceive it.
I believe in the Christian theology because the things it says about God are consistent with the above statements, as well as everything else we know about people, the universe, and our planet. The message taught by Christ in particular is borne out to be an ideal that leads to peace and harmony in my own life. Deviations from the teachings of Christianity invariably lead to strife in my life, and vice versa.
I recognize that these same teaching are found in other religions, and that makes perfect sense to me, as any idea of God that followed mankind as he spread from his initial tribes would carry along certain themes that would be repeated in the religions developed in different parts of the world. This could also be a result of natural selection, but that could also simply be the way "God's message" was presented.
At its core, we are really talking about two different things - why I believe in a Creator, and why I follow the teachings of Christ. I COULD follow the teaching of Christ (for the most part) and still not believe in a Creator, but I have no reason to do so.
Aside from all of that, I also find the position of atheism to be intellectually dishonest. Atheists claim to not believe anything without proof (or at least evidence) and yet they believe there is no God. Christians claim that salvation can only occur through faith (which means you cannot have proof), and do so... believing in a God that cannot be proven. This is not why I believe, but it is reason enough to not choose to believe there is no God.
Any doctor says :confidence in recovery is half cured.
For some people the idea of God's existence give them feeling of safety.
They are frightened of this world.
Through prayer they gain confidence what give them feeling of safety
and through this, prayer help them concretely.
Not sure I follow your line of thought here. Atheists claim there is no God, and there isn't any proof or even valid evidence of one. Furthermore, Christians say there cannot be any proof, and that belief in the absence of evidence is a virtue. In no other area of life do we value such a proposition.
I can't say I "believe", but I suspect/hypothesize that the universe has always been. It runs through cycles, like an eternal sine wave. No need for a beginning or a creator.
I also "believe" that "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", is pretty damn good advice.
SolusCado,
Here is the bottom line on this part. We have evidence that primitive socieites had varying ideas of god(s) and they trypically were based on that which was around them, the types of animals etc
We have no evidence that there was a singular idea that started it all, as opposed to starting wherever man was.
So the burden is on you to prove the claim that it all started with one concept and that it changed. The evidence shows that it was each to it's own.
In your mind
First choose
No imagination. Most kids create all sorts of monsters in their minds. I used to be scared of this really tall black stick like creature I was sure existed in our back yard, only at night of course.
If god exists outside of the universe and is supernatural, why does the workings of the universe matter ?
We can, please explain.
Well since you are claiming a belief in god then you are claiming to know that god created the universe, otherwise you don't know what you believe.
Why doesn't it make sense ? Didn't christians believe that god was sitting in the clouds within our atmostphere at one point. Seriously, you guys just keep moving the goal posts to keep up with science.
Explain to me why spacetime is important to whether or not we have freewill.
The question is what difference does god make. If we don't need him for the universe to continue on it's way.
You don't have an answer do you ?
Yes enlighten me. And explain how god can interact with us and why the need since according to you all was in place beforehand, oh and he exists outside of the universe and the universe maintains it's laws.
This should be good.
Fair enough
Which is what I have been trying to explain. Without the evidence, why believe, why put a god in there when none is needed.
Why try to explain the unexplainable. Why support a notion that is not supportable.
Any claim that it is will be met with prove it and you won't be able to.
Look, I am sure you are a decent, nice and reasonable person, if you knew me you would know that I am as well. I am not questioning you because you believe, I am questioning the belief.
I want to be sure to point that out. I am not being judgemental about you as a person. I respect your opinions etc. I am trying to raise questions that challenge your positions.
The key is not to find that which supports, because in many cases that is easy, the key is to face that which contradicts and deal with it. That is the reality.
Like spider said, if we found something like a huge gold bible on the moon. We wouldn't be able to ignore it. And it would make us all re-think everything we have come to know. That doesn't mean that knowledge isn't reality, just that something else is going on that we don't understand.
Here is the bottom line on this part. We have evidence that primitive socieites had varying ideas of god(s) and they trypically were based on that which was around them, the types of animals etc
We have no evidence that there was a singular idea that started it all, as opposed to starting wherever man was.
So the burden is on you to prove the claim that it all started with one concept and that it changed. The evidence shows that it was each to it's own.
In your mind
First choose
No imagination. Most kids create all sorts of monsters in their minds. I used to be scared of this really tall black stick like creature I was sure existed in our back yard, only at night of course.
If god exists outside of the universe and is supernatural, why does the workings of the universe matter ?
We can, please explain.
Well since you are claiming a belief in god then you are claiming to know that god created the universe, otherwise you don't know what you believe.
Why doesn't it make sense ? Didn't christians believe that god was sitting in the clouds within our atmostphere at one point. Seriously, you guys just keep moving the goal posts to keep up with science.
Explain to me why spacetime is important to whether or not we have freewill.
The question is what difference does god make. If we don't need him for the universe to continue on it's way.
You don't have an answer do you ?
Yes enlighten me. And explain how god can interact with us and why the need since according to you all was in place beforehand, oh and he exists outside of the universe and the universe maintains it's laws.
This should be good.
Fair enough
Which is what I have been trying to explain. Without the evidence, why believe, why put a god in there when none is needed.
Why try to explain the unexplainable. Why support a notion that is not supportable.
Any claim that it is will be met with prove it and you won't be able to.
Look, I am sure you are a decent, nice and reasonable person, if you knew me you would know that I am as well. I am not questioning you because you believe, I am questioning the belief.
I want to be sure to point that out. I am not being judgemental about you as a person. I respect your opinions etc. I am trying to raise questions that challenge your positions.
The key is not to find that which supports, because in many cases that is easy, the key is to face that which contradicts and deal with it. That is the reality.
Like spider said, if we found something like a huge gold bible on the moon. We wouldn't be able to ignore it. And it would make us all re-think everything we have come to know. That doesn't mean that knowledge isn't reality, just that something else is going on that we don't understand.
Unlisted option. All human-claimed Gods do not exist and the claims are a result of how human psychology evolved (ex. anthropomorphism and hierarchy).
I believe God exists as an Idea.
An unproven idea.
I would LOVE for a divine being to come to me, to speak to me, to reveal herself to me, but this has yet to happen.
I can not disprove a god in any logic other than saying, that which is proven with no evidence needs not evidence to disprove it.
But I believe this is a horrible way to disprove something just as it is a horrible way to prove something.
My beliefs are closely tied to Buddhism and I see life as eternal.
I do not however see human beings as eternal.
When human beings stop working for life, life will exterminate us.
As life has always done.
But I do not stress this, you can not change reality.
There is no such thing as a good day, or a bad day. There is just a day.
It's all an illusion that we paint for ourselves.
It is what it is.
An unproven idea.
I would LOVE for a divine being to come to me, to speak to me, to reveal herself to me, but this has yet to happen.
I can not disprove a god in any logic other than saying, that which is proven with no evidence needs not evidence to disprove it.
But I believe this is a horrible way to disprove something just as it is a horrible way to prove something.
My beliefs are closely tied to Buddhism and I see life as eternal.
I do not however see human beings as eternal.
When human beings stop working for life, life will exterminate us.
As life has always done.
But I do not stress this, you can not change reality.
There is no such thing as a good day, or a bad day. There is just a day.
It's all an illusion that we paint for ourselves.
It is what it is.
how can you say that when you're still alive?
57.89% of the people that responded to the survey on here are atheists.
How the fuck do you guys put up with the ignorant horse shit that spouts from the mouths of these nut jobs like Lori and SolusCado.
Spidergoat you are a better man than I. I can’t stand reading this crap. I’m going to run back to the human science section.
Honestly this forum is like reading a dictionary written by toddlers. It’s just mistake after mistake with these religious people, you try to correct them and they goo and gaa at you and then shove a toy up their nose… while shitting their nappy.
With the quality of arguments and comments you religious people are making, it’s really hard to see you in any other way.
How the fuck do you guys put up with the ignorant horse shit that spouts from the mouths of these nut jobs like Lori and SolusCado.
Spidergoat you are a better man than I. I can’t stand reading this crap. I’m going to run back to the human science section.
Honestly this forum is like reading a dictionary written by toddlers. It’s just mistake after mistake with these religious people, you try to correct them and they goo and gaa at you and then shove a toy up their nose… while shitting their nappy.
With the quality of arguments and comments you religious people are making, it’s really hard to see you in any other way.
'Cuz it would be impossible to say it when I'm dead? :shrug:
Actually, my concept of god does not include afterlifes, heaven, hell, reward or punishment. I have a limited number of years to stand up and look around. After that my RAM is reallocated to the memory pool and I cease to exist.
It's OK - it's part of a cycle that's been going on for eternity.
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so iow, you have absolutely no idea what happens after we die, you just believe whatever you want to believe arbitrarily.
yes i know. you wouldn't be able to see that until you're dead. that's my point.
Hmmm, are you dead? If not then you make a pretty dull point.
why? i don't claim to know what happens to us after we die.
i have had some spiritual experiences that seem to indicate that there is more going on than meets the eye. :shrug:
I'll grant you that. It was the dood that looks like Bono who was saying belief affected the afterlife... (I'm still learning who the players are around here.)
As for the spiritual experience, I've always wanted one of those... But the closest I ever get is when I hear David Gilmour's guitar solo in Time. (Almost 40 years and it still sends shivers down my spine.)
