What is your belief regarding the existence of "God"?

What is your position regarding the existence of "God"?

  • God exists and created the universe through the laws of nature.

    Votes: 3 10.7%
  • God exists, and created the universe/world in seven 24-hours periods.

    Votes: 2 7.1%
  • God doesn't exist, the idea was invented by man to address the unknown.

    Votes: 18 64.3%
  • I don't know, and choose not to posit a belief.

    Votes: 5 17.9%

  • Total voters
    28
Do you have a non-subjective test that can be run? An experiment in which everyone gets the same result? I'm all ears. :bugeye:

why does it have to be that way? that's not ANY way.

how about an analogy...

my mom exists, and she has always been and will always be who she is.

that's objective right?

but when different people meet her, or see her, or talk to her, they may discover or appreciate different aspects of her, in different circumstances, or by different means.

that is subjective.

does that mean my mom doesn't exist?

do you believe my mom exists?
 
You example is flawed. Is god possible to know or IOW provide evidence of. So unlike chasing theories and hypothesis about the universe and everntually determining the validity of such, with God, there can only be faith. Never can there be knowledge.
i think you may be asking is god possible to define in measurable way, a way that ppl can point to and say that is god,there is no doubt.
i say this because it is possible to know god(of course on a personal level,anecdotaly,) and there is knowledge through god,


So god then has no say or control over our lives ? Or does he ?
you gotta listen in order for him to have a say..

No choices to be made ? But I can choose to sit up or down ?
if god wants you to stay sitting he would not let you see the board above your head..

Does god save people from car crashes ?
this sounds of the god genie..

How we have freewill but god is in control ?

i wanna argue god knowing what you will do does not equal god controls you..
 
My "belief" is that as long as it cannot be tested for or measured in anyway, the question is irrelevant.

now this statement confirms what i have said in the past..god cannot be measured..(or at least the attitude)

how does one 'Prove' they love another?
 
Even if the existence of some deity could be proven beyond a doubt...there will still be people (possibly even on this forum) unwilling to believe it, for emotional reasons.

i believe you are closest to the truth about god than anything i have heard to date..
 
To MODS..
i just realized how many responses i just made..you have my blessing to combine these posts..(sorry)

i also often contemplate the results if god did make himself known/measurable..i don't think it would be a good thing..
 
why does it have to be that way? that's not ANY way.

how about an analogy...

my mom exists, and she has always been and will always be who she is.

that's objective right?

but when different people meet her, or see her, or talk to her, they may discover or appreciate different aspects of her, in different circumstances, or by different means.

that is subjective.

does that mean my mom doesn't exist?

do you believe my mom exists?
I believe you have a mother. Mothers are an integral part of how human beings reproduce. I have one too.
 
Well, every primitive society created some form of belief in a supernatural entity or myth, including creation stories about how we came to be. So yes, they are creative enough to create the idea of god. It was essentially a survival mechanism, they were scared crapless of dying, they were trying to create answers for questions they could not yet answer.

You are positing an assumption without backing it up. The fact that every primitive society (from about 6000 years ago onward anyway) had beliefs in God/s is more easily believed to be the evolution of a single idea that spread and morphed as mankind spread out from a single point of origin. That still brings us back to a SINGLE locale for the 'invention' of God, and I still don't believe man was creative enough to come up with the idea on his own.

How would a primitive man interpret the meaning of thunder and lightning ?

Floods ? Earthquakes ? etc.

Since primitive man would have been familiar with the noises made from natural phenomena, such as trees or rocks falling, I think they would've more naturally assumed things like thunder and earthquakes to be the result of giant trees or rocks falling in the distance. Lighting would've no doubt looks like stars falling from the skies (and perhaps when they landed they would've caused the noise of thunder). These are of course speculations, but they all seem like a more reasonable deduction than the invention of the idea of a God or Gods.

Ok, so when there is evidence of god, then come talk to me.

You example is flawed. Is god possible to know or IOW provide evidence of. So unlike chasing theories and hypothesis about the universe and everntually determining the validity of such, with God, there can only be faith. Never can there be knowledge.

Agreed, and such is the basis for Christianity.

Sure, and as long as they aren't starting wars and killing people because they claim god told them to I have no problem with it. It's also not evidence of god to others.

Agreed, but the belief that people wouldn't find other reasons to kill people and start wars if there was no notion of God is ridiculous. There are more wars in the history of mankind that did not use God as a shield than did.

So god then has no say or control over our lives ? Or does he ?

No choices to be made ? But I can choose to sit up or down ?

You don't see the contradiciton ?

Does god save people from car crashes ?

All of your questions here represent a lack of knowledge of 4D spacetime. If God does save people from car crashes it was done when the universe was created, and no doubt done so in keeping with the laws of the universe that he created. You can choose because you don't know what your choice will be. There is no contradiction; it simply requires thinking about time differently than you do.

So does it interact with us in some capacity ?

Since people are claiming to have witnessed the effects of god in their lives then how can it simultaneuosly live outside of the universe with it's LAWS and still come to be part of peoples lives ?

See my statement above. The laws were created by God along with the rest of the universe, so His will would be manifested in His creation, through the laws he set in motion.

Sure, god is not a seperate entity that lives outside of the universe. He is part of everything, he is within us, he is reality. He does not make choices for us, he does not have control over our lives or what happens in the world.

I disagree. I think God would HAVE to be a separate entity that "lives" outside the universe. It is illogical to think that he created something he is part of.

It is everything. So once we get to this point, there is no separation from reality as we know it. So there is no reason to believe in a separate entity anymore. Thus, no reason for god.

Sooo... I have not 'gotten to this point', but the statement "there is no reason for god" doesn't make any sense. If God exists, He exists. There may not be any reason in your life for my presense, or the presence of the phone sitting next to me right now, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

The reason I state this is because if you face the contradictions that you yourself should have come to realize and asked yourself, you would understand the only workable concept of god is what I stated above. In which case the importance of believing in an entity disappears.

I'm still waiting for a contradiction. Your statements above are only applicable in a universe where time unfolds and everything changes with each passing moment - which isn't the way our universe is constructed.

Otherwise you can explain to me how it is outside of the universe and it's laws but can interract with each of us ?

How we have freewill but god is in control ?

Again, because God created the universe in the first place. His interaction is part of the creation itself. The notion that he would need to "revisit" His creation to interact with it would put him right back inside it, bound to the same sense of time that we are. But time is part of the creation as well, and so His interaction need not occur at any point beyond the initial creation.

The notion of "God being in control" is even a misnomer. Again, it assumes there is some movement or change over which he is exerting control. He already created it. Nothing moves. Nothing changes. We EXPERIENCE movement, change, and time because of the nature of our consciousness - and it is that same nature that gives us the freedom of choice; it's just that in the context of God's reality the choice has already been made, as he is not bound by the same sense of time that we are.
 
that's ridiculous. if it was proven beyond doubt, most would not have a problem with admitting it's existence.

it's so far the other direction right now, the assertion is even ridiculous to make.

And yet there are people who deny we landed on the moon, deny the holocaust ever happened, etc. Never underestimate the human mind's capacity to refuse the truth.
 
why does it have to be that way? that's not ANY way.

how about an analogy...

my mom exists, and she has always been and will always be who she is.

that's objective right?

but when different people meet her, or see her, or talk to her, they may discover or appreciate different aspects of her, in different circumstances, or by different means.

that is subjective.

does that mean my mom doesn't exist?

do you believe my mom exists?

Nice analogy!
 
people are overlooking something. even if one to believe a god created this universe, that would make it even more guilty. it is not worth or deserving of worship at least for many people.

religious texts try to rationalize or explain what they think caused the problems, pain, suffering or evil inherent in nature or the universe. interesting that it never points back to an all-powerful being that is responsible for the creation though? oh yes, that is explained by the "devil" and free will. but even one's choices will be based on one's inherent character except for the most frivolous and petty choices. the projection of the evil onto the 'devil' or it exists. if it does, or it represents an alternate source or reality which creates the duality or contradiction.

so either the belief is that "everything" was created by this or so-called god/gods (depending on one's particular religous belief) which makes it responsible or it is just a situation that is mixture of opposing factions.

still, there is no denying that there is a sense that many people feel trapped in this world to deal with it similar to how poor souls or gladiators were slaughtered or forced to fight in roman coliseum. for some, the reality that god is on their side or cares is unintuitive and contradictory when faced with enemies. this points to more a conglomeration of elements rather than a single deity or an opposing elements (even represented by people) trapped in this god's world, so to speak metaphorically or perhaps even literally in some fashion.
 
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You're kidding, right? Why should primitive man be any less creative than we are now? :shrug:

I don't think primitive man would be. But we've all been indoctrinated in the idea of a god for thousands of years. It isn't a representation of creativity to believe in one now. The VERY FIRST person who thought ... hmm, maybe there is this person that created all of us and everything around us, and is responsible for all these things we don't understand... I find that to be hard to believe.
 
people are overlooking something. even if one to believe a god created this universe, that would make it even more guilty. it is not worth or deserving of worship at least for many people.

Why, because the world isn't the way you'd like it to be?

religious texts try to rationalize or explain what they think caused the problems, pain, suffering or evil inherent in nature or the universe. interesting that it never points back to an all-powerful being that is responsible for the creation though? oh yes, that is explained by the "devil" and free will. but even one's choices will be based on one's inherent character except for the most frivolous and petty choices. the projection of the evil onto the 'devil' or it exists. if it does, or it represents an alternate source or reality which creates the duality or contradiction.

so either the belief is that "everything" was created by this or so-called god/gods (depending on one's particular religous belief) which makes it responsible or it is just a situation that is mixture of opposing factions.

The Bible does indeed say that God created evil. One of the themes in Christianity is that we don't - can't - fully understand the reasons behind the bad things that happen in the world, but that the fact that bad things happen should be irrelevant to our disposition.
 
Why, because the world isn't the way you'd like it to be?

if it's not the way i or someone else wants it to be, then it says something about the creator or it doesn't care what we think. we can use any line of reasoning, can't we?

furthermore, then why would it even expect love or devotion from everyone? if one has free will and the capacity to reject what they dislike or recognize what they dislike, then it is what it is, isn't it?

you don't realize that your statement is actually even more irrevelant besides being strange with it's misplaced insinuations, by even a theist. this is because even religion has problems with the way the world works and the people in it among myriad and countless other things. otherwise, there wouldn't be a bible as well as many religions pleading others to change or do. those things that are disagreed with is just not labeled as 'god'.


The Bible does indeed say that God created evil. One of the themes in Christianity is that we don't - can't - fully understand the reasons behind the bad things that happen in the world, but that the fact that bad things happen should be irrelevant to our disposition.

the disposition meaning the continuation of good, right? do you think that me pointing out what i or someone disapproves of or dislikes about nature or life means that somehow i'm going to go out and rape or kill people or someone does not value love, honesty, truth, compassion etc in a world that is also full of the opposite? of course not. what someone values is different than what one may think of a concept of 'god'. after all, not everyone views nature or existence as being perfect or even moral and perhaps not even created by a 'god'. for many, we are just here and deal with it the best we can. realistically, that is what everyone ends up having to do religious or not. one thing is for sure, nature is inherently predatorial so that is the foundation, even if there are aspects of the opposite values that are dealing with this aspect in nature. the disposition regarding or towards some 'god' is irrevelant to me though it's relevant to a theist.

your positions seem to be fragmented (on purpose) to suit one argument after another.
 
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I don't think primitive man would be. But we've all been indoctrinated in the idea of a god for thousands of years. It isn't a representation of creativity to believe in one now. The VERY FIRST person who thought ... hmm, maybe there is this person that created all of us and everything around us, and is responsible for all these things we don't understand... I find that to be hard to believe.
I find it to be the most natural thing someone would think. Since we, humans, build and make things, it would be very easy to imagine a greater being who built and made the world.

Children make up imaginary friends, fairies and monsters all the time.
 
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