What is the future for this people?

jwyatt123

Your posts are self-defeating. Look to the people who have made it inspite of the obsticles and apply their methods to your situation.

What do you have to offer?

You talk of inner-city, is that where you are located? If so, look around you. Do the people around you need anything that you have to offer. If not, then apply the real-estate motto location, Location, LOCATION. If your selling 'soul cookies' and no one is buying, stop thinking its racism and look at your recipe. Maybe your cookies just aint that good.

I am not talking about the individuals who have made it in a white world. Making money for white affairs. They get all of this education and then go and spend thier money that they own from the white man and spend it on white business, giving it back to the white man.

I am saying that our education should be turned to building business and building business that support business, that we may gain money from black dollars and spend our black dollars on other black businesses.

I am not asking for handouts. I am not arguing that anyone owes us anything. But its people who don't understand the death of the black man that misunderstand me. I am asking that black people invest in land. They must produce their own raw materials and black producers must sell to black manufacturers and black manufacturers must sell to black stores. The black dollar must circulate.

Our children go to school and they get hired by a white man, doing work and increasing white business and they go home and they buy everything from the white man. We work at grocery stores we don't own. We work at bus stations and gas stations we don't own. Our people don't buy their clothes from black material suppliers. Our people dont buy from black mechanical engineers or black business owners of technology. We don't have oil business nor do we have stamping companies where are people exclusively buy from. We need to have integration within our own people. This is all that I am saying.

I am not throwing blame. I am just saying that my black people are blind. This is not racism it is just economic principles. We can leave other people alone. That is how we generate peace.

Why then are people on this forum opposing that we have our own? Is it that you want us to be dependent totally on you?

White people will never go to black business to purchase service. And even if they do give us money, they know it will go right back to them. We have almost nothing of our own and we all go into business from other than our own. We are a weak people and a weak minded people cannot economically survive.

I am offering an economic program that gives students the spiritual guidance, as well as the knowledge to be a self sufficient people in several communities.

I am not saying that individuals have not made it through opposition. That's not what I am saying at all. These individuals are great. But these individuals do not support their own people. That's all. They say that the unemployment rate is 9%. But they are only figuring white Americans and Americans in unemployment services and services that they can record from.

They don't tell you the black unemployment rate, which is over half in every black community where blacks dominate.

I am not trying to defeat anyone. I am peacefully saying that we can get our own . And provide for our own. And our money can come back to us because we can spend money on each other. This is all that I am asking. I am asking just for peace. And to leave us alone to do our thing. I am not trying to attack anyone. But it seems like everyone is attacking me for telling the truth. I am sorry I cannot provide clear evidences, but this is my people, I know them best.

I am not causing enmity, I want peace. I don't want to deprive anyone of anything. I am just asking, can we share some of this earth? Can we share some of this market? Can we please do for our own?

May I talk to my people and ask them to take their black earned dollars by black people and spend it on black businesses by black people. Our people already have the will to unite. It's just the school teaches our children that we can never be successful without white people.
 
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White people will never go to black business to purchase service.
oh, . . . nevermind.
when you get past 20 years old and can carry on a decent conversation without trying to stir up racial tension then we can talk.

BTW, blacks hold 4 of the most powerful offices in the US government.

so much for "the black man gets shit on" eh?
 
I am not talking about the individuals who have made it in a white world. Making money for white affairs.
...
Why then are people on this forum opposing that we have our own?
...

We are opposing a stupid idea, one that would hurt the inner-city black community. You are proposing a "white" world that exists. Not only is that a lie (for the obvious reason of every single race on earth contributing to a global economy), but you are trying to categorize anything that does not happen for the benefit of inner city black people as "white", which will no doubt result in the weak minded thinking "the rest of the world is white and the rest of the world is bad for me". So, your foundation begins as a lie.

Additionally, you think somehow you are going to reign in all inner-city black people, segregate them from the rest of the world, and magically gain the education, resources, infrastructure, and even wisdom required to start producing goods and services... without help from anyone outside that group of people. That is pure counterdependence and will destroy everyone who is involved (with each generation getting successively worse... assuming extinction doesn't occur quickly of course).

Lastly, you made a weird statement about Islam early on and we both know that inner-city black Americans are about as Islamic as Jews eating pork. The impression I get is that you may believe that inner-city black Americans embracing Islam is somehow going to gain them divine favor/guidance/miracles in the absence of education, resoures, infrastructure, and wisdom. Take a look at anywhere in the world where a foreign religion tries to *save* the downtrodden and see how well it works out. Fortunately, the inner-city black culture in America would reject Islam just by it's very nature so that would definitely not be an issue, but your intent is nonetheless harmful.

I said early on that education is the key for inner-city blacks and that message was either ignored or rejected... probably as being "white". I am going to put that message to the side for now and state that you need to better educate yourself. Start here to see what actually works to better the inner-city black culture in America:

http://www.blacksuccessfoundation.org/research.htm#scientific research

These are scientific research results and they are hosted by the black success foundation.
 
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I said early on that education is the key for inner-city blacks and that message was either ignored or rejected... probably as being "white".

We encourage education. We need learned people. We have a lot of learned individuals with know-how


Additionally, you think somehow you are going to reign in all inner-city black people, segregate them from the rest of the world, and magically gain the education, resources, infrastructure, and even wisdom required to start producing goods and services... without help from anyone outside that group of people. That is pure counterdependence and will destroy everyone who is involved (with each generation getting successively worse... assuming extinction doesn't occur quickly of course).

NO SIR!

I am not saying we don't want true integration and help. We as a people need help. We will not "magically" gain it. I am saying, we must work towards our own resources. We can't get a paycheck and get comfortable with our individual money and individual benefit.

We have to start to build it, that is all that I am saying.

Now, with your knowledge of business and economics, how can we start to build ? Will we be able to have our own land for agricultural work and utilize the fruit of that work to sell to black manufacturers that sell to black stores ?

You have knowledge, educate me brother. Don't just chastise me ( although I appreciate it; it builds character ), but I want you to also sincerely educate me.

Don't leave me in error.


Thank you for your comment by the way.


Lastly, you made a weird statement about Islam early on and we both know that inner-city black Americans are about as Islamic as Jews eating pork. The impression I get is that you may believe that inner-city black Americans embracing Islam is somehow going to gain them divine favor/guidance/miracles in the absence of education, resoures, infrastructure, and wisdom. Take a look at anywhere in the world where a foreign religion tries to *save* the downtrodden and see how well it works out. Fortunately, the inner-city black culture in America would reject Islam just by it's very nature so that would definitely not be an issue, but your intend is nonetheless harmful.

Islam is a unifying force. I am not pushing it on poor, uneducated kids. The practice of Islam is not the Mohammadean political Islam that you think of. Islam is a way of life. Whether people are unified in Afrocentrisim or anything that is unified, you may call that unity ISLAM. And that's what I mean by Islam. When I say that I mean unity.

In my economic program, I am targeting students who attend schools that are Afrocentric and practice African spirituality. They are already cultivated with a good spirit. They have not enmity. They love their brothers. They are of the best students in Detroit to start building with.
 
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To jwyatt123 In post 61, you state your concern better than in earlier posts which spoke of lost nationalities, not being Americans etc. How to climb out of a deep economic hole many urban blacks are born into is a serious and difficult social/economic problem, but not limited to inner city blacks; however, black community leaders can help by promoting what might be called "group self aid" (and many do already).

I.e. try to encourage those blacks who have been economically successful to give some of their time and money to helping improve opportunities and instill more productive attitudes in those still stuck in the poor black communities they emerged from.

Some of this exist already, but unfortunately many who have only made modest economic advance only want to distance themselves from those they have left behind.* I always liked what Jesse Jackson said: "Never look down on a man, unless it is to help him up." Jesse (and other black leaders) have also expressed the idea that part of being a man is to care for your family, not dessert them. Black religious leaders can do more of this but there are forces working for change.

You are wrong or at least greatly over generalizing with the idea that whites won't buy from blacks. Most certainly will, if the product offered is attractive and fairly priced. This has been true for generations in the music industry.

The govenment is trying to help too: "Urban Enterprise Zones (UEZs), also known as Enterprise Zones, encourage development in blighted neighborhoods through tax and regulatory relief to entrepreneurs and investors who launch businesses in the area." From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_Enterprise_Zone

Also the flow of money is not just out of the poor black community into the white communities. Thru several different government programs there is definitely a net flow of funds into these poor communities. If it were all one way as you suggest, soon there would be no money in these poor communities.

To try to answer your question as to how to start a business, it should be providing a needed service, with mainly labor and little capital required. Also as Jesse notes - part of the income gained should be saved / invested - that is where wealth / capital comes from.

--------------------
* I know this from personnel experience as a leader of the Civil Rights effort in Baltimore. I had many more high school aged blacks than I could transport to the 25 or so sit in restaurants we were "hitting" and picket lines, but essentially no black college aged students. I went several times to then all black Morgan State College trying to get some to join our effort - total failure. At that time Johns Hopkins, where I was a graduate student had no swimming pool, but Morgan did. I surely must be the first white, by several years, to swim in it. Quite a few black males made it clear I was not welcome in "their pool."
 
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To try to answer your question as to how to start a business, it should be providing a needed service, with mainly labor and little capital required.

Yes, but this is a starting economic program, obviously it is not finished. I am open to criticism. I know others are not going to help me polish it and make it acceptable, they will only attack it and attack me. But don't worry I'm used to it. Now read this and offer any criticism and point out all flaws ( I believe you will help me ):


ECONOMIC PLAN

If we can acquire some of our own producing land and utilize the fruit of our agricultural work, we can set up black manufacturing centers who distribute product to black stores of every kind.

But the key is, no matter what service or store you want to open up, or whatever kind of material you want to make or sell, your raw material supplier must be from a black supplier.

We can grow all types of material for food, and clothing, merchandise. We have bright black engineers who can fashion material into hardware for our stores and sell to our stores so we don't have to buy outside of the black community.

Now, I want to create an economic program.

I want to send this program to students of Detroit. I hear of some schools that are Afrocentric and practice African spirituality. I choose these schools because the students are cultivated at an early age a deep spiritual love for self and kind. So they will have no enmity in them, they know to love their brother. So they are of good spirit already. They have not been taught the devil's teaching; they are clean from the devil's teaching.

I give the economic program to the students and instruct the students, who subscribe to my program, that they have to learn skill specifically for building business. They must not be in the same business, just yet. They must choose from grocery, dressmaking, merchandising, trade, maintenance, agriculture, communications, trucking, factories, bricklaying, printing, stamping, construction, (etc. The list is still growing...)

The students must get the education towards building business. Then the now business owners compliment each others' business, by supporting business.

For example: We already have alot of black restaurants, and brothers looking to build restaurants. Well, for those who have established restaurants, then those established restaurants should buy their produce from black agriculturalists who sell to manufacturers. The established restaurant should hire black maintenance men. The established restaurant should buy all of their silverware, pottery, bowls, cups, spatulas, etc. from black artists who take material from the earth and fashion them into that which is usable to the established restaurant. This can go on and on.

Now for the up and coming restaurant. This restaurant should start from scratch and everything that is needed to support the restaurant should be black operated. If this up and coming restaurant needs walls and furniture and design of architects, then they should have a black business provide them these services. And if there is not one, then this economic program that I provide to students/business-owners should provide him excellent service from a black operated business. This should not just happen with one business, but nearly every black business, but we'll just shoot for 50.

Also, we'll get a quota from every black business in the books and ask them if our students are trained and ready to build their business, I ask the black business owner " Will you buy from them and have them support you "? They should because we are preaching group economics. And if every student on our list gets 50 clients looking for them to support us and us to support them, then we will have constant work and their dollars would constantly bounce back.

We are not looking to gain capital. We are looking to provide basic need. We don't need surplus just yet.

This economic plan is not yet finished.
 
We encourage education. We need learned people. We have a lot of learned individuals with know-how

Start with yourself, read the articles in that that link and educate yourself to actual reality.

NO SIR!

I am not saying we don't want true integration and help. We as a people need help. We will not "magically" gain it. I am saying, we must work towards our own resources. We can't get a paycheck and get comfortable with our individual money and individual benefit.

We have to start to build it, that is all that I am saying.

Working for pay does not preclude you from being active in a particular community and improving it. Working for pay is in fact working for resources. That cash can help you or a community purchase whatever you want.

Now, with your knowledge of business and economics, how can we start to build ? Will we be able to have our own land for agricultural work and utilize the fruit of that work to sell to black manufacturers that sell to black stores ?

To have land for agricultural work requires people who have extensive knowledge of farming and hundreds of millions of dollars to buy land, equipment, pesticides, and hire employees. To have stores that sell farming goods requires money to buy store properties, hire employees, and buy the equipment required to present and sell groceries (just like any gorcery store has). To explicitly sell to black people only requires better prices than already established grocery chains, a way to legally violate anti-discrimination laws, and a way to convince customers that racial discrimination is ok.

You have knowledge, educate me brother. Don't just chastise me ( although I appreciate it; it builds character ), but I want you to also sincerely educate me.

Don't leave me in error.


Thank you for your comment by the way.

1) Read all the articles in that link I posted.
2) Go to college and earn at least a Bachelor's degree. If you can I would suggest a dual major. Somthing that is very marketable and something that helps you understand socioeconomics (your guidance counselor will help you a lot with this).
3) Discover all the organizations like the one I posted that exist for the betterment of inner-city black people. Understand all their successes and failures and donate your time and money to repeating those successes (and possibly supporting your favorite organizations).

Islam is a unifying force. I am not pushing it on poor, uneducated kids. The practice of Islam is not the Mohammadean political Islam that you think of. Islam is a way of life. Whether people are unified in Afrocentrisim or anything that is unified, you may call that unity ISLAM. And that's what I mean by Islam. When I say that I mean unity.

Any religion or socio-identity can be a unifying force. Islam is not unique in this regard; however, right now Islam is the most hated religion on Earth and I would avoid promoting it beyond your own personal choice. Afrocentrism can place people in the position of no longer identifying with the country they were born and live in. It just doesn't sound like a winning idea. If you want to create some kind of unifying identity then I would ask the people whom overcame the inner-city life about how they identify themselves. Turn that into a unifying force.

In my economic program, I am targeting students who attend schools that are Afrocentric and practice African spirituality. They are already cultivated with a good spirit. They have not enmity. They love their brothers. They are of the best students in Detroit to start building with.

I would instead consider talking to the people whom are in that organization that I linked. I think they would help you see many aspects of the inner-city black culture that you presently don't have visibility into. I think you would be able to relate to it too.

If you have a seprate passion for religion and spirituality, I would consider pursuing that separately because outside the scope of your own mind, I suspect it will be more harmful than helpful.
 
while the rest of us wants to live together in peace and harmony this joker speaks of segregation.

jw,
for your information the united states is on to this type of ruse.
i also noticed you have not responded to any of my posts.
it's okay though, i can see right through you.
 
while the rest of us wants to live together in peace and harmony this joker speaks of segregation.

jw,
for your information the united states is on to this type of ruse.
i also noticed you have not responded to any of my posts.
it's okay though, i can see right through you.

There's nothing else to see. I come in peace. I want for a people, not myself.

Take it or leave it.

If we do for our-self, why does that scare you so much?

You see me as a threat because you know if we provide for our own we will be stronger than a lot of established nations on earth.
 
while the rest of us wants to live together in peace and harmony this joker speaks of segregation.

jw,
for your information the united states is on to this type of ruse.
i also noticed you have not responded to any of my posts.
it's okay though, i can see right through you.

It's more than that. The more I learn about him, the more I get the impression that he is a teenager in Detroit who found spirituality and wants to take all the inner-city black people of America and go start a successful country in some underermined place with some kind of economic plan. It sounds like a creative fantasy (which is fine), but unfortunately the education, knowledge, and experience to evaluate his ideas against actual reality are missing. That of course is not surprising because teenagers often know very little about the world and have limited education at that point in their lives.

What he does see is that there is a problem within his culture and he's thinking about ways to fix them. The part that is likely going to be hard for him is the realization that he needs to become a success so he can lead people by example and mentoring. I don't think he will process that message regardless of how many times I mention it because he cannot relate to my presentation; however, if he talks to an organization for the betterment of inner-city black people (such as the one I linked), I suspect he will be able to relate to their presentation and finally process the message.
 
To jwyatt123:

I live in Brazil and it is now past midnight here so may have more to say tomorrow, but you are making mistake to try to make a separate "black community economy" and even if some rich black person were to give you land to farm it would not be in the urban problem areas. Further more it is very hard for individuals of any color to compete with the giants corporations of modern agriculture. Hell even African farmers can not deliver foods to their near by cites as cheaply as these corporations farming in the mid west can!

Instead of your some what egotistical (I'll teach skills / set up an economic plan, etc.) approach, think in terms of working with the existing organizations in the black community - especially the churches. They could organize / sponsor local services like car wash & wax after Sunday services and put up some announcement in parking lots and grocery stores used by both whites and blacks etc. Walking and washing dogs etc. is nearly a zero capital service with little skill required. Think in those type of terms with marketing thru the Churches etc.
 
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...I want for a people, not myself.

Be careful with that. There are many personal benefits to strong altruistic behaviors; however, you can go to far. Think about it like exercise, it's good for you but if you overdo it then you will hurt yourself.
 
I am not talking about the individuals who have made it in a white world. Making money for white affairs. They get all of this education and then go and spend thier money that they own from the white man and spend it on white business, giving it back to the white man.
White alone --- 223,553,265 --- 72.4%
Black or African American alone --- 38,929,319 --- 12.6%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States

Like it or not, you need white peoples money. And that means you need to offer something white people want to buy. The other posters are correct to admonish your black focus. Its not about race, its about profit for self.

...I am saying that our education should be turned to building business and building business that support business, that we may gain money from black dollars and spend our black dollars on other black businesses Where we get the most for our money.
That is what you learn in college or on your own.

I am asking that black people invest in land. They must produce their own raw materials and black producers must sell to black manufacturers and black manufacturers must sell to black stores. The black dollar must circulate.
So how much land do you own? What raw materials do you produce? What do you have to sell? Are you leading by example?

Our children go to school and they get hired by a white man, doing work and increasing white business and they go home and they buy everything from the white man. We work at grocery stores we don't own. We work at bus stations and gas stations we don't own. Our people don't buy their clothes from black material suppliers. Our people dont buy from black mechanical engineers or black business owners of technology. We don't have oil business nor do we have stamping companies where are people exclusively buy from.
http://www.theroot.com/multimedia/nation-s-top-10-black-owned-companies
The above url has a black owned oil company on the list. The key is these successful black owned companies are not geared to sell their product to black americans. They gear their products by demand. All money is green.


White people will never go to black business to purchase service. And even if they do give us money, they know it will go right back to them. We have almost nothing of our own and we all go into business from other than our own. We are a weak people and a weak minded people cannot economically survive.
This is self-defeating. This is wallowing in self-pity. See above URL. But honestly I wouldnt drive into Detroit if I could avoid it. I dont drive into Minneapolis or St Paul if I can avoid it also. Not worth the trouble, parking, crowded roads, violence, or cost. Actually, the only reason I go into cities at all is for some ethnic resturants. So a couple of times a year. Its getting cold now so not until next spring.
I am offering an economic program that gives students the spiritual guidance, as well as the knowledge to be a self sufficient people in several communities.
Sorry but in my opinion, anyone peddling spiritial guidance brings out the red flags. Reading your response to Billy T, I can see a bit of where you are going, but the reality is you dont need a lot of land to make money farming. You do need to be willing to do hard work. I know plenty of people who rent land and sell produce at the farmers markets of Minneapolis/StPaul. Some of these people gross 40 to 100K per year now. It starts slow and builds with reputation. My friend rents out his 40 acre field for $25 an acre per season (but the renter does all the field work). Thats $1000 per year. Thats also 40 miles out of the twin cities. Down the road from me they rent out land to Hmongs. I believe thats $50 per 1/2 acre per growing season (water hook up is $15 per year), but the owner plows and disks the field for you. Cukes are easy once you get them growing but they take a lot of water. Good water, not clorinated city water. Corn is a good seller, but you need room. Planted a week apart per row and we turned 5 lbs of seed, $125 in fert and spray into 3K and worked a few hours on weekends for a month (but we had a corn planter and had the crew come in and spray the field). And that was when corn was $1 doz. Two moms and 6 kids. And minimum wage was $1.25 an hour then. A years worth of wages in two months (one month planting, one month selling). And we ate all the fresh corn we wanted and froze a bunch for winter.

http://michiganmessenger.com/17755/few-sign-up-to-farm-abandoned-land
 

You should listen to Claud Anderson's arguments multiple times because it will allow you to seperate his actual claims from his emotional presentation (which can cloud your judgement). The reason you would want to do this is to see if his claims are true. For example, he stated that black people are 100% consumers and 0% producers. In searching through google, I can find business owners, CEOs, board of director members, etc. who are black. That means businesses exist that are owned and run by black people (and you can see the same thing too with a search engine). What this means is that Claud Anderson lied.

Another example is he claims that all black people's incomes were wiped out by immigrants... and he cited the very true increasing gap between the rich and the poor. But he didn't say how this was happening. He just said, look... gap between rich and poor... and immigrants are to blame for some unknown magical reason! Always be wary when someone makes a huge sweeping claim but cannot support it. I'll give you a brief history lesson (and you can verify this information for yourself with any search engine). In the late 1970s, special interests groups (ex. corporations, other countries, political factions, etc.) began purchasing members of our government to pursue their interests. This was most noticeable in the 80's during the Regan administration when the very president of the united states was purchased to de-regulate our internal economic policies. The result is that today the American government is run for the benefit of special interests (not the American people) and most of the countries wealth has been distributed to a tiny segment of the population while the ranks of the poor grow. That old "American middle-class" ideal no longer exists and 1 in 6 people right now are living below the poverty level in the United States. Unless your the beneficiary of special interest groups then your income was wiped out special interest groups as well as mine. It hurt people whom are part of the inner-city black culture even more because they have historically been poor, and if you are really from Detroit then it makes it even worse because Detroit lost an entire manufacturing industry. The point of mentioning all this of course is that Claud Anderson lied. Black people's wealth was not wiped out by immigrants.

Claud Anderson also tries to use a very disingenuous tactics in an attempt to make you accept his position. For example, he implied that every other "race" has a "market" except black people. The first question to ask is what exactly does that mean? Go ahead and try to clearly define it. You can see there are businesses owned and run by black people, yet Claud Anderson is implying that black people don't have a market whereas every other race does. That doesn't quite make sense does it?
 
It's more than that. The more I learn about him, the more I get the impression that he is a teenager in Detroit who found spirituality and wants to take all the inner-city black people of America and go start a successful country in some underermined place with some kind of economic plan.
i realize that.
i used to be young and dumb too you know.
What he does see is that there is a problem within his culture and he's thinking about ways to fix them.
he is not going to do it by segregation, not here in the US.
our country fought a massive civil war over this crap and it isn't going to happen again.
the only thing this kid will do is get the attention of the FBI.
The part that is likely going to be hard for him is the realization that he needs to become a success so he can lead people by example and mentoring.
just like every other successful black in this country, and there are thousands of them
I don't think he will process that message regardless of how many times I mention it because he cannot relate to my presentation; however, if he talks to an organization for the betterment of inner-city black people (such as the one I linked), I suspect he will be able to relate to their presentation and finally process the message.
i doubt it.
he will probably see those blacks as "uncle toms".
 
Remember, I am not preaching segragation


The black community must circulate their money within their own communities. Their earned money should go to other black businesses.


I am not talking segregation.
 
This is wallowing in self-pity.
the ruse of discrimination is exposed right there.
instead of taking responsibility for their actions or inactions you hear instead "i'm being discriminated against" when the facts of the matter are you just aren't worthy.
there is nothing "black" or "white" about it.

do you really believe i would pass up a black heavy hitter for a white pansy?

you NEVER hear of a "white man" saying "i'm being discriminated against".
whites had no choice but to face the facts.
 
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