How many days in the pokey would this derogatory statement based on race get you Billy?
Billy T said:
The good news is because of the 1st Amendment, in the US the answer is 0.
Arthur
What is the future for this people?
- Thread starter jwyatt123
- Start date
How many days in the pokey would this derogatory statement based on race get you Billy?
The good news is because of the 1st Amendment, in the US the answer is 0.
Arthur
I don't have any real data, less than a week I would guess, possible just 24 hours. Most of the time, I think, just a fine.
The judicial system in Brazil leaves much to be desired - It is very slow - may be years before you get a court date (unless it is a labor dispute which has a separate court system - in which the worker almost always wins.)
The justice is very uneven - depends a lot on the judge. The really big crooks, and the politicians, rarely go to jail - the cooks buy a light sentence from friendly judge if they do and the politician try themselves - not the civil courts - worst that happen to them (if of the minority) is they are barred from running for re-election for a few years. (if of the majority - nothing but public exposure for their crimes - seldom do they even get fined.)
The newspapers are very good - expose lot of corruptions and misscarage of justice. A few years ago a simple man was sent to jail for cutting a little bark from a tree to make a tea for his sick wife.* The papers picked this up and contrasted it with many acres of public land cleared illegally by a developer who was not even fined and the public outrage got the man set free. Many people have been "sold" simple houses on public land - years later most will get to continue living there, but some will be evicted.
* Brazil has very tough environmental laws (but again very erratic enforcement). I had ~100 acre cattle ranch. A bad storm blew many green leaves off a tree in my pasture, which were toxic and one of my steers died from eating them. I told my hired man, who actually ran the farm, "Well cut the dam tree down and burn it." He said: We can't do that - you will get into a lot of trouble. (Ever few months a plane flies over taking photos which are computer processed to note cut down trees, even slight expansion of the pasture into an adjoining woods, etc.)
But he said he would take care of the problem. I only went to farm one or two week-ends per month. On my next visit I saw the tree was still standing but had few leaves - he had cut a deep grove all the way around the base. The plane would photograph that the tree had died and then a few years later, we could cut it down for fence posts and fire wood. Brazil is an interesting place to live.
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I am not so sure that is "good news" - You do not have total freedom of speech under the 1st. Amendment. That is well established in the law. - The classic example being that it is illegal to yell "Fire" in a crowded theater.
The general principle of Chief Justice Warren statement applies to speech also. He said: "Your freedom to wave your fist ends, just where my nose begins."
I.e. you do not have the right to injure others, not even by just your speech alone. Admittedly it is hard to draw the line as to what you can say and what you can not*, but 1st Amendment's Free Speech is not without any limit. The "liable laws" are one example where free speech's limits are better defined in law.
* That is what judges must try to do.
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It is good news and I explained why.
And I never claimed we did.
I'm quite aware of the specific exclusions.
I missed your explanation - what post was it in? Or can you restate it, please.
"... Township High School District 214, located in Cook County, Illinois, has been plowing ahead on several technology upgrades in recent years, including cloud computing initiatives, server virtualization and, yes, free {iPad} tablets for incoming freshmen. ..."
From: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9221216/Chicago_area_school_district_gives_free_iPads_to_freshmen?source=CTWNLE_nlt_mobilew_2011-10-27
I don't know anything about the districts of Chicago, but guarantee you District 214 is far from the intercity's poor districts. - That inequality is what local funding of schools achieves - helps keep the poor, poor.
From: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9221216/Chicago_area_school_district_gives_free_iPads_to_freshmen?source=CTWNLE_nlt_mobilew_2011-10-27
I don't know anything about the districts of Chicago, but guarantee you District 214 is far from the intercity's poor districts. - That inequality is what local funding of schools achieves - helps keep the poor, poor.
Workaholic
Registered Senior Member
The problem is Americans are not really a united people, so to speak. Citizens of different portions of a city don't really consider people of other portions "true citizens". As such there is no real need to help "those people". One of the best ways to anger Americans is to demand they pay additonal taxes to subsizdize another portion of society far away (one of the core complaints of the Tea Party).
This extends up to the State and Federal levels of government. "Take care of your own" is the mantra of the USA. That's why we allow millions of kids to go hungry while continuing wars enriching companies like Blackwater (now Xe).
Ophiolite
Valued Senior Member
Perhaps, but you have gone on for multiple pages making a clear distinction between your people and other peoples. If you want to talk about the disadvantaged in society and how more could be done to help them improve their situation that would be one thing. But you are not making the distinction between 'haves' and 'have nots', but between black and non-black, and more often between black and white.
If you are making such a distinction between 'peoples', then you are indeed segregating. You can deny it as much as you wish, but the evidence is here embedded in this thread.
Strawman argument. If you think this represents Business Methods 101 you will make no progress in improving the lot of your 'people'.
Segragation again.:shrug:
By placing persons into the artificial constructs of race you are once again practicing segregation.
If I were in a situation where I was faced with dying for someone their race would not be something that would even come into the decision making process. Here you are stating that while you would die for black people any other 'race' can go **** themselves. Segregation thinking from you yet again.
I have given an objective assessment of what you have written. If you think what I have said is dirty and unrespectable you have a problem.
This is a discussion forum. My comments on one aspect of your posts is wholly on topic. I shall continue to comment as I see fit. You can place me on ignore if you wish - I'm sure a head in the sand attitude will be of immense help to 'your people'.
I have not assassinated your character. I have simply pointed out that you practice mental segregation. Well, I have gone a step further and implicitly condemned such mental segregation. You may wish to reflect on the fact that you consider an attack on segregation to be an assassination of your character.
Filth? I point out the truth to you and you respond by calling it filth! You practice segregation. It was what I commented on and in your response you have introduced further examples, which I've pointed out above. So now you appear to equating filth with the truth. How bizarre.
I'm not bashing you. I am trying to make you aware that you practice mental segregation.
The knowledge I have tried to communicate is that the problem you are trying to solve is not one of race. Your obsession prevents you from seeing this.
It doesn't frigging matter whether I am Caucasian, Black, Chinese, Arab, etc. These are all frigging artificial constructs. I acknowledge cultural differences. I acknowledge individual differences. Skin colour, however, is as relevant as blood type, which is not at all unless I'm wanting to know what sun screen factor to use, or am due for a transfusion.
charles brough
Registered Senior Member
Since you say it is a question, I will try to answer it, but it sounded like you were only complaining how terrible you think we are treating our black minority.
There future is that the minority sub-races of the human race are mixing here and they are generally no longer black. Also, they have no legal barriers against them and they are integrated into our social and economic system like all the many people who arrived and populated this country. There future is that racial color here will eventually be brown and the Caucasions will be a minority.
brough
http://civilization-overview.com
This is not all important to me.
I am concerned with those that are dependent in the inner city that will have food stamps and welfare taken away from them soon.
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I am not trying to push race, I am pushing to make my community better. My community is primarily Black. My program may reach the world one day, but I am not strong in power yet so I can't reach people who are not accepting to the teaching of Socialism that are outside of my reach. I beg your pardon brother. I do not want to segregate people. This is the wrong understanding of me. I am saddened that you perceive me this way.
I know text on a computer screen is cold and harsh, but if you could feel the energy coming from me through breath to breath contact, you would know that I am a good brother to all of my Brothers.
This is what I am thinking about doing with Black business owners in my community.
What do you think? Its going to be smaller and specially crafted but the idea ( although not that big ) will be the same effect on our communities
What do you think ?
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And what you quote from the Sustainable Business Network of Greater Philadelphia is all about LOCAL businesses, but what YOU post is all about BLACK business owners.
Can you not see the difference and why you come across as a segregationist?
Ophiolite
Valued Senior Member
It's just that you'll give preferences to your black brothers and let whitey look after himself. That's racism, pure and simple. Well done.
I'll note too that one of my heroes, Jesse Jackson, always spoke of "poor people" and seldom of "Black People" being abused by the system that educates them poorly and then blocks their advance as they are unqualified for anything but manual labor jobs, which machines can increasingly do at less cost.
It has been many years since I saw some men digging a ditch, except very short ones, where transport of the machine to the site is too much of the total cost.
It is no longer "black exploitation" in the US - it is the exploiting of the poor now. - In this "exploitation area," businesses and corporations have become totally "color blind" - No discrimination based on color at all. In part why the 99% may unify.
In the deep south for years white workers could not get better pay by joining unions. - Their employer would say: "If you join the union, some nigger will take your job." Back then businessmen knew the value of discrimination based on color. The old "divide and conquer" worked, but the 99% are finding inter racial unity in their common misery. If I were a billionaire, living in a major US city, I would have an agent checking out the cost of a small Greek island now. (I know what happened to the French aristocracy after a hungry jobless mob took over the armory called the Bastille one 14th of July.)
It has been many years since I saw some men digging a ditch, except very short ones, where transport of the machine to the site is too much of the total cost.
It is no longer "black exploitation" in the US - it is the exploiting of the poor now. - In this "exploitation area," businesses and corporations have become totally "color blind" - No discrimination based on color at all. In part why the 99% may unify.
In the deep south for years white workers could not get better pay by joining unions. - Their employer would say: "If you join the union, some nigger will take your job." Back then businessmen knew the value of discrimination based on color. The old "divide and conquer" worked, but the 99% are finding inter racial unity in their common misery. If I were a billionaire, living in a major US city, I would have an agent checking out the cost of a small Greek island now. (I know what happened to the French aristocracy after a hungry jobless mob took over the armory called the Bastille one 14th of July.)
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I am crafting a special program that has room to grow. If our businesses can come together then we can make progress in our community. 1. We can save our money from the businesses into a bank and work on the needs of our community if the government is not conscious to our needs and won't support our needs diligently and truthfully. 2. We can, through drafting into the organization, require all businesses to change in the way of Socialism. Meaning their business would have to supply equitably the needs of the community and this would shift the surplus into a bank for us to fulfill our needs as a community.
I am starting with black people and urging them to make business partnerships with each other and requiring them to subscribe to my idea of Socialism. It will be small at first, but it will start off strong. We must feed our poor people and share the wealth with our poor people. This program will reach to poor people and all people who wish to come together as a community and work for the needs of all in this business alliance ( of course we are fairly consulting our people ).
I choose black first because we are the majority where I live. It is easier to teach Black Unity than it is to teach Human Liberation, but believe me, I will open up to all that want to help us. And when others join, we will have to consider their needs and wants as a part of our needs and wants. We call our business owners that are partners in the organization Brothers. We are all Brothers in this organization ( not a cult ) but we are all Family.
Black Unity comes so easy to me. I can teach that most excellently. But I urge you to consider the Law of Retribution. When Black Unity comes, then everything else will follow. That is the key. The world has been waiting for the Human Family to come together for the past 6000 years, and it is time.
I will tell you the Secret of the Divine Science that is Time.
Brother, in that post, I was not saying that white people have to go and "suffer" and do for self. Its not that I don't care about white people. I am not leaving them in the dust Brother, they are not in bad shape just because I don't consider them. I do consider them.
Let me put it this way...
Soon, we are going to get to the point where I can call that so called "white man" my Brother. Soon I will be able to call my Jewish Brother. I will be able to say Hispanic Brother, and Korean Brother, and Chaldean Brother, and Arab Brother, And Mexican Brother.
Racism is a plague Brother, and I can't come in the Name of the God that made color and represent myself as a man of God if I am racist. Karmic Law and Spiritual Law will not allow me to succeed with evil thoughts in my mind.
I want to enjoin Brothers for goodness.
I do not seek superiority over anyone based on the color of their skin. That would be filthy. I am not concerned with skin color, but the condition of peoples across the earth.
You ask, why do I say Black?
Answer: We will do away with the effects of injustices of corporate greed and we will be an example for the entire world to follow. We were not brought here to America with Equality for us in mind, so I say that to say we are already disconnected somewhat from the falling economy that is so coveted by those that do not want this country to Fall. All those that love the economy and love other than their God and His People, then I say to you: you are in manifest error. This program will be good for all white, black, yellow and brown people who love the uplifting of fallen humanity and do not love the economy over the salvation of Human People.
^^^ Now Brother, please don't take that answer and butcher it and make it to mean something filthy and evil.
I understand.
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To jwyatt123
Here is something for you to consider, a more specific idea - an extension of my prior suggestions about working with & thru the churches, especially the AME. It fits in well with your socialistic ideas leanings:
Quite surprising to many, especially western bankers, small loans made within a community have default rates less than half the rate that the big, impersonnel banks experience. In China the total volume of loans within these closed groups is unknown, but may now be even bigger than official bank loans, as the government, trying to control inflation, has restricted the bank’s lending by several different ways.
I am just guessing but bet now at least half of the loans supporting Chinese apartment buying are "unofficial loans" - Part of why the government has had so much trouble curbing the rapid rise in apartment prices. "Saving face" is so important that these borrowers, who come into contact every day with some of the people who, as part of the group, have lent them money, that they will go hungry instead of miss a loan repayment! I forget what these lending associations are called, but they have essentially a zero default rate.
The interest paid by the Chinese banks has risen slightly recently but is still only about half the inflation rate. I.e. saving in banks is a sure way to lose purchasing power in China. But these groups charges several times more interest on their loans – another reason why the volume of “unofficial loans” by these closed groups is so large. – It is one of the few ways a Chinaman can passively invest with good gains.
You could suggest that the AME, even thought it does not have a lot of money, it has some and it has weekly income, begin making very small loans to it members – only to those most responsible and only those who have profit making plan requiring just a little to get started. (and preferably only to those who have long record of showing up for Sunday service.) Simple things like funds for a tropical fish tank and some starter fish to breed fish that could be put in plastic bag, taken to pet shop and sold at an attractive wholesale price to the pet shop owner (all after pre-arrangement deals). I am not suggesting this – the risk of fish dying and the economonics may be terrible. – I'm just trying to show that there are many tiny businesses that can be run from home. Perhaps the AME’s loan buys a second hand sewing machine and some black lady makes dresses for dolls, that are sold after church, etc.
In some cases, part or all of the loan repayment could be in “sweat labor.” For example, the AME (or other churches) could offer a Child Care / Babysitting service, that is modestly charged for, staffed by someone paying back the loan in “sweat labor” instead of cash. Loans could be paid back by washing cars, in a Church- sponsored and advertized, regular after services, car wash event; The church could maintain a dog walking service too. (I was very poor when in college but lived in a Fraternity that was remote for campus but near a large apartment complex. I put up my phone number in its halls, with offer of "immediate baby sitting service - when you need it -just call ..... If we don't deliver, your next service is half price." I and about five other brothers backed up this claim. The AME could do something like that - have a list of members willing to drop whatever they were doing and be picked up at the Church for the work someone need "right then" - did not schedule. Someone paying back a small loan in "sweat" could sit by the phone at the church to run these offered services, etc.)
SUMMARY: Try to get the black churches thinking more about sponsoring economically productive project for your community (and even better for sale to outsiders who would put dollars into the community) These money making small business services could be both directly run by the church or only sponsored by the church’s small loans. IMHO, you will not get anything good achieved by “talking up” the advantages of socialism – more likely, you will just get yourself known as some sort of communistic nut.
The natural tendency of all to “look out for number 1” is strong and against socialism*, I think, it is very strong, by necessity, within the black community. I remember well, the reaction I got when trying to get some blacks form Morgan State college to come and join our Civic Interest Group – Not actually stated, but clearly understood, was: “Hell no! I just got out of that ghetto mess. – You are crazy if you think I would willing go back into it.”
*Socialism has a very poor historical record when it comes to making benefits for a society. About the only place / conditions in which it does well / benefits the society is when the society is quite uniform and very well educated, with part of that eduction producing a strong sense of national unity, duty to the welfare of others, and pride – like in Scandinavia. Part of why I think the “black pride” movement helped. Why I think “gay pride” is good. Sao Paulo has one of the world’s largest “Gay Pride” day annual marches. I am (even at my age) strongly attracted to women, could not imagine doing anything sexual with a man, but twice now I have marched a few blocks in the Gay Pride march.
Here is something for you to consider, a more specific idea - an extension of my prior suggestions about working with & thru the churches, especially the AME. It fits in well with your socialistic ideas leanings:
Quite surprising to many, especially western bankers, small loans made within a community have default rates less than half the rate that the big, impersonnel banks experience. In China the total volume of loans within these closed groups is unknown, but may now be even bigger than official bank loans, as the government, trying to control inflation, has restricted the bank’s lending by several different ways.
I am just guessing but bet now at least half of the loans supporting Chinese apartment buying are "unofficial loans" - Part of why the government has had so much trouble curbing the rapid rise in apartment prices. "Saving face" is so important that these borrowers, who come into contact every day with some of the people who, as part of the group, have lent them money, that they will go hungry instead of miss a loan repayment! I forget what these lending associations are called, but they have essentially a zero default rate.
The interest paid by the Chinese banks has risen slightly recently but is still only about half the inflation rate. I.e. saving in banks is a sure way to lose purchasing power in China. But these groups charges several times more interest on their loans – another reason why the volume of “unofficial loans” by these closed groups is so large. – It is one of the few ways a Chinaman can passively invest with good gains.
You could suggest that the AME, even thought it does not have a lot of money, it has some and it has weekly income, begin making very small loans to it members – only to those most responsible and only those who have profit making plan requiring just a little to get started. (and preferably only to those who have long record of showing up for Sunday service.) Simple things like funds for a tropical fish tank and some starter fish to breed fish that could be put in plastic bag, taken to pet shop and sold at an attractive wholesale price to the pet shop owner (all after pre-arrangement deals). I am not suggesting this – the risk of fish dying and the economonics may be terrible. – I'm just trying to show that there are many tiny businesses that can be run from home. Perhaps the AME’s loan buys a second hand sewing machine and some black lady makes dresses for dolls, that are sold after church, etc.
In some cases, part or all of the loan repayment could be in “sweat labor.” For example, the AME (or other churches) could offer a Child Care / Babysitting service, that is modestly charged for, staffed by someone paying back the loan in “sweat labor” instead of cash. Loans could be paid back by washing cars, in a Church- sponsored and advertized, regular after services, car wash event; The church could maintain a dog walking service too. (I was very poor when in college but lived in a Fraternity that was remote for campus but near a large apartment complex. I put up my phone number in its halls, with offer of "immediate baby sitting service - when you need it -just call ..... If we don't deliver, your next service is half price." I and about five other brothers backed up this claim. The AME could do something like that - have a list of members willing to drop whatever they were doing and be picked up at the Church for the work someone need "right then" - did not schedule. Someone paying back a small loan in "sweat" could sit by the phone at the church to run these offered services, etc.)
SUMMARY: Try to get the black churches thinking more about sponsoring economically productive project for your community (and even better for sale to outsiders who would put dollars into the community) These money making small business services could be both directly run by the church or only sponsored by the church’s small loans. IMHO, you will not get anything good achieved by “talking up” the advantages of socialism – more likely, you will just get yourself known as some sort of communistic nut.
The natural tendency of all to “look out for number 1” is strong and against socialism*, I think, it is very strong, by necessity, within the black community. I remember well, the reaction I got when trying to get some blacks form Morgan State college to come and join our Civic Interest Group – Not actually stated, but clearly understood, was: “Hell no! I just got out of that ghetto mess. – You are crazy if you think I would willing go back into it.”
*Socialism has a very poor historical record when it comes to making benefits for a society. About the only place / conditions in which it does well / benefits the society is when the society is quite uniform and very well educated, with part of that eduction producing a strong sense of national unity, duty to the welfare of others, and pride – like in Scandinavia. Part of why I think the “black pride” movement helped. Why I think “gay pride” is good. Sao Paulo has one of the world’s largest “Gay Pride” day annual marches. I am (even at my age) strongly attracted to women, could not imagine doing anything sexual with a man, but twice now I have marched a few blocks in the Gay Pride march.
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And in doing so you discriminate against those who are in the minority in your community.
NOT a good way to start.
If you want to teach understanding, it helps to practice understanding.
Arthur
36 And it was revealed to Noah: None of thy people will believe except those who have already believed ( Billy T ), so greieve not at what they ( adoucette ) do.
37 And make the ark under Our eyes and Our revelation, and speak not to Me on behalf of those who are unjust. Surely they will be drowned.
38 And he began to make the ark. And whenever the chiefs of his people passed by him, they laughed at him. He said: If you laugh at us, surely we, too, laugh at you as you laugh ( at us ).
39 So you shall know who it is on whom will come a chastisement which will disgrace him, and on whom a lasting chastisement will fall.
40 At length when Our command came and water gushed forth from the valley, We said: Carry in it two of all things, a pair, and thine own family - except those against whom the word has already gone forth - and those who believe. And there believed not with him but a few.
41 And he said: Embark in it, in the name of Allah be its sailing and its anchoring. Surely my Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.
Holy Qur'an
Brother, if you don't understand the Black community, you never will. This is not a discrimination for me as a Jew to say to the Jewish community, "buy Jewish". It is not a discrimination if I want to uplift my Chaldean community to say "buy and support Chaldean". It is not a filthy transgression against Peace for me as a Korean to say to my Korean community "buy and support Korean so that we may continue to unite and grow stronger and live in Peace".
So why then, do you perceive it an awful transgression against Peace for me to be concerned with where I live? There is a such thing as a Black community you know. You have nothing to say to the Jews, Koreans or Chaldean in their communities, but why when I am concerned with my community do you have such misunderstanding? Why do you have no good words for me?
I am concerned with my community Brother, I do not want to do evil to anyone for anything. Our Black community is suffering real hard. I know there is suffering all over the world, but I have no power to change that right now. I am doing what I can with what I have.
37 And make the ark under Our eyes and Our revelation, and speak not to Me on behalf of those who are unjust. Surely they will be drowned.
38 And he began to make the ark. And whenever the chiefs of his people passed by him, they laughed at him. He said: If you laugh at us, surely we, too, laugh at you as you laugh ( at us ).
39 So you shall know who it is on whom will come a chastisement which will disgrace him, and on whom a lasting chastisement will fall.
40 At length when Our command came and water gushed forth from the valley, We said: Carry in it two of all things, a pair, and thine own family - except those against whom the word has already gone forth - and those who believe. And there believed not with him but a few.
41 And he said: Embark in it, in the name of Allah be its sailing and its anchoring. Surely my Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.
Holy Qur'an
Brother, if you don't understand the Black community, you never will. This is not a discrimination for me as a Jew to say to the Jewish community, "buy Jewish". It is not a discrimination if I want to uplift my Chaldean community to say "buy and support Chaldean". It is not a filthy transgression against Peace for me as a Korean to say to my Korean community "buy and support Korean so that we may continue to unite and grow stronger and live in Peace".
So why then, do you perceive it an awful transgression against Peace for me to be concerned with where I live? There is a such thing as a Black community you know. You have nothing to say to the Jews, Koreans or Chaldean in their communities, but why when I am concerned with my community do you have such misunderstanding? Why do you have no good words for me?
I am concerned with my community Brother, I do not want to do evil to anyone for anything. Our Black community is suffering real hard. I know there is suffering all over the world, but I have no power to change that right now. I am doing what I can with what I have.
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Except you have already admitted that your community is not all Black:
jwyatt123 said:
If you focused on helping your community and not doing so only based on the color of the people I think you would be more successful.
As it is you come across as a segregationist.
Arthur