Oh, I see. I thought it was some sort of inside joke that I couldn't figure out.Me not paying attention while failing to copy a link to clipboard, apparently.
Not sure what to say about this but it seems relevant. In some way, shape or form...
Twerking woman ... faces 10 years
Sexual harassment by either gender should not be tolerated.
tali89:
tali said:
I never said that. I observed that one of the examples of supposed sexual harassment in the video was a guy saying hello to a woman, - -
iceaura: No, that's not what you "observed". You referred to the video of harassment scenes as an entity, and dismissed that video, as guys saying hello - you were using that supposed innocence directly, to denigrate the people who observed a rape culture in full bloom on that video.
tali89:
At this point, I'm noting that your responses to me have gotten shorter and shorter
iceaura: Repetition will do that.
tali89 is presumably referring to the following thread:
http://www.sciforums.com/threads/street-harrassment.142928/
There's also a follow-up thread to that one:
http://www.sciforums.com/threads/sexual-harassment.152471/
Readers will note from tali89's writings in both threads that tali89 is a misogynist. Nothing he says on the topic of sexual harassment should be taken seriously.
Tali89 said:- That I live in a rape culture.
- That rape jokes are evidence of rape culture, whereas Holocaust jokes are not evidence of an anti-Semitic genocide culture.
- That I'm lying when I claimed I haven't heard anyone in my culture tell a rape joke, and explain how your assertion is relevant to me eating hamburgers.
- Clarify who is qualified to identify a rape culture, when you have claimed that people both within and outside of a rape culture may have trouble identifying it as such.
- You need to explain why the prevalence of rape is irrelevant when attempting to determine whether a rape culture exists, and why you claimed I was the only one discussing these statistics when it was another poster who posted them to fuel discussion of how common rape is in the United States.
- You need to provide evidence of organized gangs of rapists in places you deem to be rape culture, as well as evidence that officials systematically protect them.
- You need to demonstrate that theft is taken more seriously than rape by the police, and that convicted thieves are given longer convictions than rapists.
- You need to demonstrate that convicted rapists aren't blamed for raping individuals.
The above are all claims that you have made which you have yet to support. I'd like to remind you that posters are encouraged to support their claims with evidence, although I suspect that rule might not come into effect if you chant the party line.
By the way, I've noticed you have finally dropped the 'mocking mental illness' shtick. It's nice to know that even a hardcore socialist is capable of being shamed into adopting the pretense of decent behavior.
I’ve been referred to as a "rape advocate", too, but I think the correct term is a "rape apologist".It also seems relevant at this time to wonder when you―generally in your habits―and other rape advocates like Bowser and Milkweed are going to start posting something affirmative.
No. I think assigning bad/criminal behaviors to 'culture' lessens the impact of intent to change these behaviors. I dont see the effort here to label all kinds of normal human behavior as Rape culture (such as the street harassment video) as doing anything but making people reject the issue as being important. I dont see much difference between the effort to assign "hey girl, you look great in that dress" to rape culture and Ted Bundy blaming pornography for his rape-murders.What if "Sexual Assault Culture" was used instead of "Rape Culture", would you agree with that?
Me too. (And misogynist, of course.) It's all part of life here. We should start a club!I’ve been referred to as a "rape advocate", too, but I think the correct term is a "rape apologist".
Oh, I see. So, you would probably agree with RAINN’s criticism of the term then, right?No. I think assigning bad/criminal behaviors to 'culture' lessens the impact of intent to change these behaviors. I dont see the effort here to label all kinds of normal human behavior as Rape culture (such as the street harassment video) as doing anything but making people reject the issue as being important. I dont see much difference between the effort to assign "hey girl, you look great in that dress" to rape culture and Ted Bundy blaming pornography for his rape-murders.
To concede the point gives legitimacy to Bundy's claim. You cant have it both ways. And I reject Bundy's claim of porn made him do it. And I reject the bible made him do it, or football made him do it, etc.
RAINN, one of North America's leading anti-sexual violence organizations, in a report detailing recommendations to the White House on combating rape on college campuses, identifies problems with an overemphasis on the concept of rape culture as a means of preventing rape and as a cause for rape, saying, "In the last few years, there has been an unfortunate trend towards blaming 'rape culture' for the extensive problem of sexual violence on campuses. While it is helpful to point out the systemic barriers to addressing the problem, it is important to not lose sight of a simple fact: Rape is caused not by cultural factors but by the conscious decisions, of a small percentage of the community, to commit a violent crime." It is estimated that in college, 90% of rapes are committed by 3% of the male population, though it is stipulated that RAINN does not have reliable numbers for female perpetrators. RAINN argues that rape is the product of individuals who have decided to disregard the overwhelming cultural message that rape is wrong. The report argues that the trend towards focusing on cultural factors that supposedly condone rape "has the paradoxical effect of making it harder to stop sexual violence, since it removes the focus from the individual at fault, and seemingly mitigates personal responsibility for his or her own actions".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture#Criticisms
Secular Sanity said:I’ve been referred to as a "rape advocate", too, but I think the correct term is a "rape apologist".
Just sayin'
Incorrectly applied in this case, regardless of which method of mis-direction used.I’ve been referred to as a "rape advocate", too, but I think the correct term is a "rape apologist".
Just sayin'
...it is important to not lose sight of a simple fact: Rape is caused not by cultural factors but by the conscious decisions, of a small percentage of the community, to commit a violent crime.
There were no such examples. There were no scenes of men "simply saying 'Hello, how are you' " labeled as harassment. You invented that to characterize the video, the entire thing. At no time did you refer to the video as a documentation of obviously tolerated, normal, culturally standard street harassment of a woman simply walking down the street. At all times you referred to these imaginary scenes of innocence as characterizing the video and the source of people's reaction to it. And so forth.tali said:"I recall one example on this forum where a video of supposed 'street harassment' was posted, and men simply saying 'Hello, how are you?' to women was regarded as evidence of rape culture."
I did not claim that the entire video consisted of guys saying 'Hello', but was instead referring to some examples of supposed sexual harassment in that video that involved men simply saying 'Hello, how are you' to women.
So you see little difference between a norm of coerced subjugation to unwanted sexual attention bordering on assault, and one of consensual engagement in agreed sexual behavior, in their cultural implications.milkweed said:I dont see much difference between the effort to assign "hey girl, you look great in that dress" to rape culture and Ted Bundy blaming pornography for his rape-murders.
So there is little significant influence of one's culture on one's conscious decisions. Seriously, you are presenting the conscious decisions of a key and enormously influential percentage of the community as something separate from - and largely irrelevant to - cultural factors.milkweed said:...it is important to not lose sight of a simple fact: Rape is caused not by cultural factors but by the conscious decisions, of a small percentage of the community
Eh?You're *still* fuming over those discussions?
Well, it depends on which idea of rape culture you're referring to. The one, say, I describe? Yeah, most likely.
Setting aside the Godwin violation, how many Jews did Nazis burn in ovens yesterday?
Rape jokes are so prevalent in modern societies that the only way an adult has of saying they haven't heard anyone tell a rape joke is to use ths standard, "That's not a rape joke."
It also seems relevant at this time to wonder when you―generally in your habits―and other rape advocates like Bowser and Milkweed
are going to start posting something affirmative.
I mean, the thing is that people know you're all completely full of shit,
tali89: - Clarify who is qualified to identify a rape culture, when you have claimed that people both within and outside of a rape culture may have trouble identifying it as such.
Tiassa: Social scientists? How about anyone with functioning perceptive and analytical faculties?
tali89: - You need to explain why the prevalence of rape is irrelevant when attempting to determine whether a rape culture exists, and why you claimed I was the only one discussing these statistics when it was another poster who posted them to fuel discussion of how common rape is in the United States.
Tiassa: You need to explain where you're getting all these fucked up fantaasy questions.
tali89 - You need to provide evidence of organized gangs of rapists in places you deem to be rape culture, as well as evidence that officials systematically protect them.
Tiassa: Whence comes this demand?
tali89: - You need to demonstrate that theft is taken more seriously than rape by the police, and that convicted thieves are given longer convictions than rapists.
Tiassa: Show me a prosecutor with a confessed theft in hand who tells the victims they contributed to their own theft, and then tells the people he doesn't think they're capable of convicting a confession.
Show me a prosecutor who refuses to charge thieves because "boys will be boys".
Show me how putting a steering lock on my car is the same degree of disruption to quality of life as planning one's day around being sexually assaulted.
There were no such examples. There were no scenes of men "simply saying 'Hello, how are you' " labeled as harassment.
In feminist theory, rape culture is a setting in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender and sexuality.
The sociology of rape culture is studied academically by feminists, but there is disagreement over what defines a rape culture and as to whether any given societies meet the criteria to be considered a rape culture. Behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, sexual objectification, trivializing rape, denial of widespread rape, refusing to acknowledge the harm caused by some forms of sexual violence, or some combination of these. The notion of rape culture has been used to describe and explain behavior within social groups, including prison rape, and in conflict areas where war rape is used as psychological warfare. Entire societies have been alleged to be rape cultures.
There is evidence to suggest that rape culture is correlated with other social factors and behaviors. Rape myths, victim blaming, and trivialization of rape have been found to be positively correlated with racism, sexism, homophobia, ageism, classism, religious intolerance, and other forms of discrimination.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture
[Rape culture is] a complex set of beliefs that encourage male sexual aggression and supports violence against women. It is a society where violence is seen as sexy and sexuality as violent. In a rape culture, women perceive a continuum of threatened violence that ranges from sexual remarks to sexual touching to rape itself. A rape culture condones physical and emotional terrorism against women as the norm . . . In a rape culture both men and women assume that sexual violence is a fact of life, inevitable . . . However . . . much of what we accept as inevitable is in fact the expression of values and attitudes that can change.
--- Emilie Buchwald, Transforming a Rape Culture.
In a rape culture, people are surrounded with images, language, laws, and other everyday phenomena that validate and perpetuate, rape. Rape culture includes jokes, TV, music, advertising, legal jargon, laws, words and imagery, that make violence against women and sexual coercion seem so normal that people believe that rape is inevitable. Rather than viewing the culture of rape as a problem to change, people in a rape culture think about the persistence of rape as “just the way things are.”
This is what it means when people say that sexism and violence against women are “naturalized.” It means that people in our current society believe these attitudes and actions always have been, and always will be.
http://upsettingrapeculture.com/rapeculture.php
“Rape culture” is a culture in which sexual violence is considered the norm — in which people aren’t taught not to rape, but are taught not to be raped. The term was first used by feminists in the 1970s...
http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/what-is-rape-culture
Rape culture is the ways in which a society trivializes, rationalizes, or even condones rape and other acts of sexual violence. Rape culture includes a variety of issues from the way raped individuals are treated by police to the way rape is portrayed in fiction and by the media.
Modern rape culture is steeped in institutionalized misogyny, having at its core cultural features of a society that is defining, politicizing, and ultimately controlling women's bodies. Rape culture, like all other aspects of culture, informs individual behaviors on many levels - often in ways the individual isn't even aware of.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Rape_culture