What is Islam?

(Q) said:
Your scriptures? How many scriptures are out there purporting a one and only single god?
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These are my Scriptures.
There are many like them but these ones are mine.
Without my Scriptures, I am useless.
Without me...well, the concept of a personal God doesn't go quite that far. That's all I'm saying.
Maybe I'm integral or maybe I don't matter.
Up to the believer.

That's quite the chance your taking. Odds don't seem to be with you, though. :p
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Ah! but it is my chance to take. ;)
 
GeoffP said:
These are my Scriptures.
There are many like them but these ones are mine.
Without my Scriptures, I am useless.
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Full Metal Scriptures? :D

Ah! but it is my chance to take. ;)
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But, what does that say about mankind and our obligation to it? Don't you think you're being somewhat selfish with your beliefs. I mean, they do tend to alienate you from the rest of the world, yes?
 
(Q) said:
You are one sad individual, Sam. Pathetic.
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Yeah, I'm the sad individual here. You're of course, blissfully indifferent.

(Q) said:
Indeedy-do. Whatever you may assume has been done, Muslims have brought in on themselves.
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Maybe you might want to spend a few hours with that kid and learn how she brought upon herself the melting to death of her two sisters, while plotting the self-derived state of affairs upon her own body.

Send her any teddy bears yet?
 
(Q) said:
Full Metal Scriptures? :D
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Maybe my daddy didn't love me enough. :shrug:

But, what does that say about mankind and our obligation to it? Don't you think you're being somewhat selfish with your beliefs. I mean, they do tend to alienate you from the rest of the world, yes?
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Well, why should they? I don't mean anyone any harm...except maybe Happeh, who should probably be preventing from breeding just because, as you understand...and my beliefs, while odd, are certainly interesting. Look at the discussion they generate!

Look at it this way: at the worst, for my impression personally (though I...er...gather there have been a few problems from some of my earlier co-religionists :shy;) my beliefs are a harmless anachronisms. I love anachronisms! I like to watch them bash each other over the head at medieval festivals. A little harmless diversity of opinion - so long as it's understood harmlessly - is a harmless thing.

In all seriousness, I don't feel alienated from the world; in fact I feel a more urgent drive to benefit mankind. And selfish? Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we all are. I can't say for sure all the dread and damnation so earnestly cited in the NT is going to come to pass, and I hope to hell (so to speak) that it doesn't, if we want to be literal.
 
ok, so Q throws a general stupid post, i reply to it as if it was A, bells replies to me as if it was B.

A being that "doing whatever they want" is to others, others as in other nations. politics.

B being in how they treat each other, or how and what rules islam applies to them.

Lucysnow said:
But you are using a Sam strategy here which is to take Bells words out of context and then assume that what she says is irrelevant and what muslims do that may not be in their own or others interest as irrelevant because of a random number of abuses. This is like excusing crime because someone was hit by mommy and daddy when they were a child. Or its like saying that if a black person decided to seek revenge or cause havoc its their right because they suffered from slavery and discrimination. Its a rubbish argument. You also do not keep any of these examples within a specific context so anyone can respond to them. For example in what are muslims unable to teach their kids whatever they want in school? Within what context are you referring to muslims wearing whatever they want? I would ask you if you believe Danish journalists have the right to depict mohammed however they want in their own newspapers in their own country within the parameters of the laws which their nation allows. I can think of the same number of grievances the West would have against muslims but you would not agree that this is a reason for the west to behave any way they want.
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i think your note on how i took her words out of context are the most relavent..

as for "random number of abuses", well that's a card that can be played by anyone..but the general trend of reality now is that muslims are abused by others, an abuse that makes any back lash negligible, to say the least, muslims' abuse isn't done on a nation's scale. and to round this up, we're talking about NOW..


Bells said:
Oh, I know you were not agreeing with him. But your post is, as Lucy pointed out so well, weak.

But do tell us. Are Muslims who live in Islamic countries allowed to wear what they want? Learn what they want from school? Read whatever book they want? Watch whatever show they want on TV? Are women in Afghanistan allowed to say "no" to their husbands without risking starvation? Do tell Scifes..
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you seem to think you know the answers to those questions, and showing you wrong will be fruitless..
Do you think Muslims who hide behind their religion as justification to abuse women and children, deny basic human rights to other Muslims, who murder anyone who dares to show some sense of individuality or free choice.. should such Muslims be 'allowed to get away with it?' Should your religion be used as a justification for such crimes? And should you be proud of it?
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this is dumber than dumb.
i understand holding a code's moral values in question when applied to others who don't go by said code...

but questioning the moralities of a code when applied to people who chose it for themselves??

no and holding them as crimes?

and asking those crimes to stop?

are you telling us we don't have the right to be immoral and savage to ourselves? to those who choose to be of us? we don't have the RIGHT to? it's either be with you or nothing? either succumb to the depths of your civilized free modern democratic filth or nothing? weren't satisfied enough shedding your humanity and moral values off yourselves and becoming animals, but want us to follow you too?

so now what, we don't have the right to be muslims???oh no no no, we're free!! we're modern and civilized! we run by democracy..of course you can be muslims, ANYONE can be a muslim if they want to, we might become muslims too actually..

but uh, first we need a couple modifications..

well go screw yourself, islam is how it is and will stay so to it's followers, spare us your saving ideas of concern, save yourselves without opening our book every once in a while and copying us, just try to function like a goddamn society that isn't running downhill on a mono cycle with a flat triangular tire.

and enjoy it while it lasts,as we will have to save YOU one day..uh, maybe forcefully..

I don't boast about what happens in Gitmo, because what happens in Gitmo is a crime and a human rights nightmare. I don't sit there and do a smiley face and say 'we're getting away with it', as though all the bad that comes with the good of your religion is somehow equal in being acceptable. When the reality is that it is not acceptable to dig a hole in the ground and stone someone to death, just as it is unacceptable to lock up children in Gitmo. But you boast about one and condemn the other.
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people turn themselves to get in that hole.
people don't turn themselves to gitmo.

four people must see with their bare eyes, a dick going in a pussy, of a man and woman who aren't married, directly; no "i though i saw it" or "the bed was shaking"...to get in that hole.

what if they were lovers? well they should get married..what if they're assholes who loved but didn't want to get married? well such assholes shouldn't have been muslims.

and the hole is only for married adultery,if they're not married then it's not the hole, it's the whip.

gitmo.. you just dissappear off the face of the earth, to a place on no map, no lawyer, no law, no charge, only pure torture.

going in a whole has been done for 1400 years, gitmo and the kidnappings to it, that paper bush signed for the CIA, has been around for what? 10 years?


when was the last time you saw a guy in that hole?
when was the last time you seen the lucky guys in orange?
Your hypocrisy is amusing if the subject matter were not so god damn serious.
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a post by Q is "so god damn serious"?
i really wanna hear the jokes you think are funny, wonder if i won't faint of laughter from the first one.
So I need to ask you. Who the fuck are you kidding?
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:shrug:
You made the claim that it has. And I am asking you how exactly. Making a statement of fact and then telling others to justify your claim when others question you about said claims is silly.
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highest conversion rates, with the handicap of a mutilated image, letmee see you get around that?

it's amongst the poor and uneducated? show me statistics.

actually jump that, are conversion rates amongst the educated more to islam or atheism?
why are you still an atheist then?
I would question the respect you have for others on this forum.
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if someone started a thread saying "ony atheists should answer" i have enough dignity and respect not to, which seems to be where we're different.

all this fiasco of misunderstanding wouldn't have happened if q hadn't tried to be funny and answer them, and you too rigid to take the joke as it was.
 
Attacking the fabric of religious and cultural differences is a requirement to prejudice the people against the said "race" and also to anesthesize them against the effects of military terror used against them.

Note how much things like the veil weigh on the minds of people as compared to the invasion and occupation of the people wearing them.

The logic is something like this:
While African bushwomen enjoy the right to go around bare-breasted, women in NYC have to hide their beautiful tits under a bra and a shirt even under the scorching summer sun and with the temperature at 40 degrees centigrade.

Something is very wrong with a society that subjects its women to such a torture. It’s time to nuke the United States of America.
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Feeling so compassionate about the victims that you have to kill them.
 
If women had the choice to wear the veil or not, I would not complain. However, they are compelled under threat of harsh penalty to the extent that even visiting western journalists must wear it too.
 
Indeed its the law in some places. Which women of that country should be able to fight against if they disagree with it. Much like gay marriages or right to an abortion or the right to teach creationism in school or the right to stop saying God in oaths or the right to kill Santa Claus or the right to circumcise or not circumcise or the right to want a demographic of one race over others, etc. However unless they start liberating women in other countries by bombing them into wearing veils or occupy or disposses them for belonging to a race that does not wear one, its really a simple matter of cultural differences
 
:mad:
HOW DARE YOU!!

S.A.M. said:
Attacking the fabric of religious
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what fabric? we know your religion more than you do, we KNOW it's bad, and good smart educated criticalpeople of great numbers following it means nothing but that they're all evil too, how else could it be?

and cultural differences
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playing with words are we?
it's not culture, it's right and wrong.
is a requirement to prejudice the people against the said "race" and also to anesthesize them against the effects of military terror used against them.
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against?
but we are liberating you!!
we break down your door with our feet with an invit...oh where did i put it..well my invitation is back home, i forgot it, but i can write myself another one if it makes any difference with you..the point is we're here to save you, exactly like we saved ourselves..you see that's why we're here at your door..

Note how much things like the veil weigh on the minds of people as compared to the invasion and occupation of the people wearing them.
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we cross half the world treading as lightly as we can -disturbing nobody- to have you run around with lighter heads and that's the thanks we get?

The logic is something like this:
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that's a very good one:D
 
S.A.M. said:
Indeed its the law in some places. Which women of that country should be able to fight against if they disagree with it. However unless they start liberating women in other countries by bombing them into wearing veils or occupy or disposses them for belonging to a race that does not wear one, its really a simple matter of cultural differences
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But they do exactly that. Fundamentalist Muslims bomb people that conflict with their strict interpretations of Islam. They are busy dispossessing non-Muslim Africans in Darfur and trying to dispossess moderate Muslims in Afghanistan.
 
note that it could be the other way around too, which is the way -regardless of what truly the case is- the US, and hence the world's media prefer it to be.
 
spidergoat said:
But they do exactly that. Fundamentalist Muslims bomb people that conflict with their strict interpretations of Islam. They are busy dispossessing non-Muslim Africans in Darfur and trying to dispossess moderate Muslims in Afghanistan.
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How do you know which one is dispossessing which one?
 
SAM said:
However unless they start liberating women in other countries by bombing them into wearing veils or occupy or disposses them for belonging to a race that does not wear one, its really a simple matter of cultural differences
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So the argument seems to be: even serious oppression of women is not as bad as dropping bombs on them, therefore the varieties of female oppression are merely simple cultural differences, carry no weight of ethical value, cannot be compared as right or wrong, good or bad, even better or worse.
 
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