What do you think about this video on Islam?

[GeoffP]

Ever heard Geert Wilders speak about Muslims?

If he so describes muslims per se, rather than islam (with the inherent understanding that he means political islam; although I wonder if well-intentioned secularists are held up to the same standard in their denunciations of Christian identity politics), then he and I disagree. I don't recall him saying "muslims", but if you have such an instance, please feel free to post. He appears to be quite correct in outlining the dangers of islamic identity politics, however,

You can't polish a turd and if you try, you will only end up with dirty hands.

An exciting and not completely relevant aphorism.

 

[S.A.M.]

. He appears to be quite correct in outlining the dangers of islamic identity politics, however

Really? Like the Dutch who rode their vehicles over fleeing civilians in Srebrenica?

Look around you, whose identity politics is imposing itself with military force, torture and murder on civilians? I can't believe you're educated people, acting like blind clueless morons. Can you believe if the situation were reversed and you were in some Gitmo while your family rotted in a refugee camp and the people whined about how dangerous YOU were to THEIR society? Fucking A.

What planet do you live on where YOU kill and torture people and blame THEM for it?

 

[ElectricFetus]

Really? Like the Dutch who rode their vehicles over fleeing civilians in Srebrenica?

What that have to do with Islamic politics?

Look around you, whose identity politics is imposing itself with military force, torture and murder on civilians?

Military force to do what, kill people for killing sack? Torture authorized by whom a corrupt moronic administration who no longer in power? And murder, our soldiers go and beat children to death, then go home and are awarded as heroes with everyone knowing exactly what they did but thinking that child soooo deserved to die? When Americans and Europeans saw civilians dieing, saw despicable war crimes by their soldiers they pulled back, they demanded an end, but say when the Lebanese see a Muslim 'freedom fighter' chop off someones head they dance in the street. Why is it that we westerns cringe at the murder of civilians while you find the murder of infidel children to be acceptable, imagine if we had your morality: all of the middle east would be leveled to trinitite and any remaining Muslims world wide would have been rounded up into death camps and gassed. You don't see the hypocrisy of whining about war crimes when you your self find war crimes acceptable (when they come from your side).

What planet do you live on where YOU kill and torture people and blame THEM for it?

We don't torture and kill like they do. We try to focus are attacks on soldiers, 'they' try to focus their attacks on civilians, we try to follow conventions of war and those that don't are eventual deposed or imprisoned, while 'they' worship and reward unrelenting brutality. We simply want to removed dictators, governments and organizations that we feel are a threat to world safety (a motive I and other westerns feel is moronic as the problem is the people them selves), 'they' want to bring down whole countries and kill everyone and have Islam rule the world and have all disbelievers converted or murdered.

 

[S.A.M.]

When Americans and Europeans saw civilians dieing, saw despicable war crimes by their soldiers they pulled back, they demanded an end, but say when the Lebanese see a Muslim 'freedom fighter' chop off someones head they dance in the street

More Hasbara. Obviously the Americans and Europeans get over it pretty soon, as the last 20 years of war in Iraq have shown. As Madeline Albright said when 500,000 children under 5 years of age died under sanctions "the price is worth it". Then they went on to the next occupation, and the next and the next.

So forgive me if I gag over the penitency of the Euro-American occupation machinery.

As for the Lebanese dancing in the streets, thats more Israeli Memri making. Works well on mindless people who get their idea of the world from mindless media.

Which is why we have the irony of occupiers and invaders and torturers and killers worrying about the terrorism from their victims. Ha! Kinda like the Nazis feeling oppressed by the Jews and thinking they were undergoing a Holocaust.

 

[ElectricFetus]

More Hasbara. Obviously the Americans and Europeans get over it pretty soon, as the last 20 years of war in Iraq have shown. As Madeline Albright said when 500,000 children under 5 years of age died under sanctions "the price is worth it". Then they went on to the next occupation, and the next and the next.

Your confusing politicians for people.

As for the Lebanese dancing in the streets, thats more Israeli Memri making. Works well on mindless people who get their idea of the world from mindless media.

it was on fucking al jazeera them celebrating the return of Samir Kuntar!

Which is why we have the irony of occupiers and invaders and torturers and killers worrying about the terrorism from their victims. Ha! Kinda like the Nazis feeling oppressed by the Jews and thinking they were undergoing a Holocaust.

The Jews in the holocaust did not terrorize the nazis, if they did it would have only hasten their deaths, jews were smart enough to figure that out but muslims aren't, dispite decades of never ending suffering continued partially by their own stubbornness to invigorate their attackers! Also I still don't see how Saudi Arabians are "victims" why is it so many muslims see them selves as "victims" when many of them live in states that are prospering wildly or have been under Muslim control for decades? Why is it muslims arn't bombing Egyptians for forbidding aide or even opening borders with the Gaza strip during times of blockades by Israel? Why is it muslims are so caring of muslims in other nations when the crimes against them are caused by infidels (not by other Muslims that they ignore) and cheer at the death of infidals, while eurpeans and americans increasingly questions and demand retraction of the policies of our politians with the death of every civilian? Why is it the Malaysians aren't sending suicide bombers to bomb America? Why is the Turks actually want to join the west?

 

[S.A.M.]

Your confusing politicians for people.

Again, its a VOLUNTEER army

The Jews in the holocaust did not terrorize the nazis

Nobody terrorised the Europeans or Americans either. Everyone is just fed up to the teeth of being exploited by the neocolonials.

”
it was on fucking al jazeera them celebrating the return of Samir Kuntar!

Ah yes Samir Kuntar. Captured at 16 years of age tortured and jailed for life, who still insists he did nothing. Unlike Shalit who probably shot and killed many Palestinians and can rightfully be shot as enemy combatant.

 

[ElectricFetus]

Again, its a VOLUNTEER army

Who volunteer to embedder the world or what ever bullshit the politicians feed them, just like the terrorist volunteer to kill infidels for allah, wait that not like each other at all, the terrorist are considerable morally worse then even the lowliest redneck solider!

Nobody terrorised the Europeans or Americans either. Everyone is just fed up to the teeth of being exploited by the neocolonials.

Exploited? The standards of living in saudi arabia, UAE, dubii, etc have rocketed at a incredible rate in just 2 generations and you have the balls to whine and say they are exploited by the west? If anybody is being exploited now it is the poor muslims by the rich Muslims, and the rich Muslims say "Well its the great satan's and little satan's fault, they must die, allah commands it!" to coo the poor into not rebelling by mixing religious faith into diverting attention away from the rich leaders, and most Muslims fall for it head over heal for it.

Ah yes Samir Kuntar. Captured at 16 years of age tortured and jailed for life, who still insists he did nothing.

Your delusional! You want me to quote the man? He admits totally to killing them, he even admits that he wants to do it again! Now the exact nature of how he killed them he does not admit to, that it, but when Kutar says "and Allah willing, I will get the chance to kill more Israelis." you know he fucking guilty!

Unlike Shalit who probably shot and killed many Palestinians and can rightfully be shot as enemy combatant.

After being capture he can't, of course hamas doesn't care about the geneva convention, and we all know he is long dead.

 

[S.A.M.]

the terrorist are considerable morally worse then even the lowliest redneck solider!

Why?

 

[swarm]

Terrorists fight a no holds barred war. They purposely target civilians and employ underhanded tactics such as kidnapping. By choosing terror as their goal they abandon any pretence of having a moral position.

The people they face may be as bad or worse, but as long as they must maintain their respectiblity in the world community, there are checks on what they can do.

There is nothing you can say in the defense of terrorism that can justify it as a tactic, that is the point of using it. Attempting to justify it only shows that you either are morally corrupt or you have no understanding of what yourside is doing.

 

[ElectricFetus]

Why?

Few rednecks would kill a child with the butt of his gun, gun down citizens, chop off heads, etc, these people are stupid and prejudice but not homicidal maniacs, they have standards, muslim terrorist have none, they kill anyone that they can label as the enemy, soldiers, men, women, children, anyone that does not believe in their particular brand of islam. They kill their own and say "well aaah, ummm, yeah their going to go to heaven anyways so it worth it" they make up what ever logic, they strap bombs to children and retards they don't care what.

Attempting to justify it only shows that you either are morally corrupt or you have no understanding of what yourside is doing.

Considering how SAM and at least one of the other Muslims here find murdering children for "freedom fighting" acceptable, I would go with the former.

 

[(Q)]

As for the Lebanese dancing in the streets, thats more Israeli Memri making. Works well on mindless people who get their idea of the world from mindless media.

Sam doesn't get her information from the "mindless media" but instead is on the front lines herself, reporting directly.

Which is why we have the irony of occupiers and invaders and torturers and killers worrying about the terrorism from their victims. Ha! Kinda like the Nazis feeling oppressed by the Jews and thinking they were undergoing a Holocaust.

Yes, the "occupiers and invaders and torturers and killers" first and foremost targets are schools, followed by orphanages and hospitals. Military targets are always left to the last.

 

[S.A.M.]

Yes, the "occupiers and invaders and torturers and killers" first and foremost targets are schools, followed by orphanages and hospitals. Military targets are always left to the last.

Correct. Which was the last "military" target?

WASHINGTON — United States officials acknowledged Thursday for the first time that at least some of what might be 100 civilian deaths in western Afghanistan had been caused by American bombs. In Afghanistan, residents angrily protested the deaths and demanded that American forces leave the country.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/08/world/asia/08afghan.html?_r=1&ref=world

 

[S.A.M.]

Few rednecks would kill a child with the butt of his gun, gun down citizens, chop off heads, etc, these people are stupid and prejudice but not homicidal maniacs, they have standards

Have you heard of the 15 year old who was gangraped after which she and her family was shot and burned?

Including a 5 year old?

Have you heard about the children in torture camps like Gitmo? Where are they?

Mohammed el-Gharani, a Chadian national and Saudi resident, was just 14 years old when he was seized by Pakistani forces in October 2001, in a raid on a mosque in Karachi, Pakistan, 700 miles from the battlefields of Afghanistan.

El-Gharani's defense lawyers charge he was treated with appalling brutality. They say that, after being tortured in Pakistani custody, he was sold to U.S. forces, who flew him to a prison at Kandahar airport, where, he said, one particular soldier "would hold my penis, with scissors, and say he'd cut it off."

They claim his treatment did not improve in Guantanamo. Subjected relentlessly to racist abuse, because of the color of his skin, he was hung from his wrists on numerous occasions, and was also subjected to a regime of "enhanced" techniques to prepare him for interrogation -- including prolonged sleep deprivation, prolonged isolation and the use of painful stress positions -- that clearly constitute torture.

Have you heard of the 500,000 children under five years of age who died and the Americans thought the "price was worth it"?

One sixteen year old held in prison for decades compares favourably to an entire country bent on destruction and murder worldwide, where "we don't do body counts", "waterboarding is not torture" and people are "collateral damages".

 

[ElectricFetus]

Have you heard of the 15 year old who was gangraped after which she and her family was shot and burned?

Including a 5 year old?

Have you heard about the children in torture camps like Gitmo? Where are they?

Nothing compared to terrorist organization which are actually dedicated to committing moral atrocities, I love to see terrorist prosecute one of their renegade soldiers for committing torture or murdering children, oh wait no terrorist is a renegade for such acts, that what they are suppose to do, and you even agree with it, when a western soilders commits an atrocity we demand he be punished as a criminal, when a Muslims terrorist does it you defend it as freedom fighting.

Have you heard of the 500,000 children under five years of age who died and the Americans thought the "price was worth it"?

Numbers out of someone ass.

One sixteen year old held in prison for decades compares favorably to an entire country bent on destruction and murder worldwide, where "we don't do body counts", "waterboarding is not torture" and people are "collateral damages".

The USA is not bent on "destruction and murder worldwide" sure some of the politicians are but the people are not, Terrorist on the other hand are by definition, you don't go blowing your self up in a school yard because you like people. You don't see american dancing in the street at the news of killing of civilians.

 

[S.A.M.]

Nothing compared to terrorist organization which are actually dedicated to committing moral atrocities

Bzwahahahaha!

Boy, your thought processes are really screwed. You think 500,000 children dying is "nothing"

 

[ElectricFetus]

Bzwahahahaha!
Boy, your thought processes are really screwed. You think 500,000 children dying is "nothing"

we don't like killing children, you do, that the difference.

 

[KennyJC]

Sam, sam, sam...

5 innocents are killed in a bomb blast which was aimed at militants.

1 innocent is captured and slowly has his head sawn off by Islamic militants.

You are saying that the former is the most immoral act.

 

[DiamondHearts]

The death of all innocents is wrong. Because you are a government and a superpower, doesn't necessarily mean you have more of a right to than unknown assailants to do so.

As for the term 'Islamic' militants, it is redundant, as all people in the region are Islamic. It is like calling the robber of a grocery store in America a 'Capitalist' or 'Christian' robber. So to is it unnecessary to use the term Islamic for a criminal. It further pushing Muslims against the West, as this is seen as a cheap shot against their faith which is unnecessary. Coverage in the US media have been anti-Muslim and serves to both demonize Muslims and Islam, and dissuade Americans from Islam.

 

[S.A.M.]

Sam, sam, sam...

5 innocents are killed in a bomb blast which was aimed at militants.

1 innocent is captured and slowly has his head sawn off by Islamic militants.

You are saying that the former is the most immoral act.

The method of killing does not matter. If everyone had a bomb, you could make a valid comparison.

You can't judge people for being too poor to have bombs, or overlook the death of a million people as collateral damages.

 

[ElectricFetus]

The death of all innocents is wrong. Because you are a government and a superpower, doesn't necessarily mean you have more of a right to than unknown assailants to do so.

We are not a government and a superpower, we are merely citizens who don't have control of the politicians, mainly because most of the electorate is ignorant or bias for them. Terrorism actually increases the chance kill happy politicians will be elected ("to defend America", "to make them pay",etc) against the will of us more liberal ones, wars of no use, were citizens are dying, soldiers are dying, moral atrocities are being committed by us actually increases the chance less kill crazy politicians will be elected, much to the joy of us liberals. Much the opposite of say Lebanon were Hezbollah is worshiped for every attack and child murders are praised as heroes.

As for the term 'Islamic' militants, it is redundant, as all people in the region are Islamic.

Incorrect and you know it. There are other people of other religions in there.

It is like calling the robber of a grocery store in America a 'Capitalist' or 'Christian' robber.

The political and social beliefs of a robber has nothing to do with them robbing, the robber could be a anarchistic satanists for all we know. The USA is not 100% capitalist or christian.

So to is it unnecessary to use the term Islamic for a criminal.
It further pushing Muslims against the West, as this is seen as a cheap shot against their faith which is unnecessary. Coverage in the US media have been anti-Muslim and serves to both demonize Muslims and Islam, and dissuade Americans from Islam.

Sure why not, lets call them "fundamentalist militants", is that pc enough for you?

I don't watch the media for many reasons, bias coverage one of them, endless crap another. I vowed long ago to never again have to hear even the first sentence to a news report about Brittney Spear's conch.