What do you think about this video on Islam?

S.A.M. said:
No they were defending the Palestinians. From the Jewish terrorists, like the ones who blew up other Jews and who conducted the deir yassin massacre.
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Well the Palestinians need to get some new defenders because the current ones suck and can't even defend themselves.
 
Lucysnow said:
Because he isolates an interpretation of the koran held by extremists and not muslims at large
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Add I think his argument was those that do interpret those sections like that, not to.

swarm said:
Well the Palestinians need to get some new defenders because the current ones suck and can't even defend themselves.
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Not to mention these so called defenders also kill and oppress Palestinians.
 
Lucysnow, I just want to say that although you are not Muslim, what you stated as far as the Muslim view regarding this film and how this alienates almost all Muslims is very true. You are a very intelligent person, and I am glad you are posting in this forum. If you would like to ask me anything, please PM me, it would be an honor.

Unfortunately, some people such as the producer of this film want to ban the practice of the Islamic religion from all Western countries, and to do this they will lie, deceive people, and spread false information about Islam and Muslims. Some of those who are not exposed to Muslims in the West think that somehow Muslims want to supplant the system here and force Islamic law on the populace. These people don't even know that Islamic law in Muslim countries does not apply to Non-Muslims, only those who profess themselves to be Muslims. They isolate Islamic law to isolated punishments for vague crimes, intentionally not defining them. For example, the punishment of execution for adultery is only allowed in the context if two individuals engage in this in front of four eye witnesses, yet the punishment is written to prevent the crime and dissuade others simply from the known possible crime. There are other examples, but in modern times many Islamic societies have feel into absolute ruin and anarchy, because of wars imposed on them. Do you expect war-torn Somalia and war-torn Afghanistan which have both in invaded and involved in civil wars to be an example of an enlightened Islamic state?

What we have today are the ruins of the Islamic justice system and attempt by war-torn societies to establish a minor semblance of order any way which they know how. The European colonization, genocide, and theft for 200 years of the Muslim World has left its mark on the Islamic world and what we live in today is world in which people are trying to recover a past which was stolen from us. We were forcibly secularized, we never wanted European laws, yet they didn't leave any of our old institutions intact, and they completely obliterated our independence with their chosen monarchies and dictators.

The Muslim psyche is one of a long history of victimization, subjugation, and shame at defeat. Therefore, outrage and grief are natural expressions for a people whose culture was forcibly removed from them, whose great leaders were captured, tortured, and murdered in gruesome ways, and whose way of life has been on the defensive for nearly 200 years of European intellectual, scientific, militaristic, and economic attack.
 
DiamondHearts said:
Unfortunately, some people such as the producer of this film want to ban the practice of the Islamic religion from all Western countries, and to do this they will lie, deceive people, and spread false information about Islam and Muslims. Some of those who are not exposed to Muslims in the West think that somehow Muslims want to supplant the system here and force Islamic law on the populace. These people don't even know that Islamic law in Muslim countries does not apply to Non-Muslims, only those who profess themselves to be Muslims. They isolate Islamic law to isolated punishments for vague crimes, intentionally not defining them. For example, the punishment of execution for adultery is only allowed in the context if two individuals engage in this in front of four eye witnesses, yet the punishment is written to prevent the crime and dissuade others simply from the known possible crime. There are other examples, but in modern times many Islamic societies have feel into absolute ruin and anarchy, because of wars imposed on them. Do you expect war-torn Somalia and war-torn Afghanistan which have both in invaded and involved in civil wars to be an example of an enlightened Islamic state?
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Wait, Saudi Arabia is a war torn Islamic state? You mean to tell me that they don't maim, whip and behead people publicly, that they don't execute people for witchcraft and apostasy? And that they don't impose sharia based law on non-muslims?

We were forcibly secularized, we never wanted European laws
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Many Iranians tell my quite the opposite.

The Muslim psyche is one of a long history of victimization, subjugation, and shame at defeat. Therefore, outrage and grief are natural expressions for a people whose culture was forcibly removed from them, whose great leaders were captured, tortured, and murdered in gruesome ways, and whose way of life has been on the defensive for nearly 200 years of European intellectual, scientific, militaristic, and economic attack.
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Oh woe is you. That way some Islamic state are incredibly rich yet live so backwards.
 
Like all anti-Muslim threads, we go from Netherlands to Palestine to Saudi Arabia is a seamless homogenous manner. Typical.

I suppose this is what Skinwalker means when he wants to discuss the movie "on its own merit"?
 
Naturally, there is no point in even debating some people. Basically all criticism of Islam can be isolated to Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, so what of the 50 other Muslim countries. They are a minor inconvenience to this view.

So what's your purpose in debating about Islam? To prove that Muslims are as they are portrayed in this movie?

Intentions are very important. If one wishes to increase hatred of Islam, then nothing of truth shall touch him. Whereas, if one genuinely wishes to learn the subject, then the world will open up for him. It is all about intention.
 
On this forum, its mostly anything goes as long as its against Muslims.
 
DiamondHearts said:
Naturally, there is no point in even debating some people. Basically all criticism of Islam can be isolated to Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, so what of the 50 other Muslim countries. They are a minor inconvenience to this view.
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And Iran, Lebanon, Jordon, Syria, etc, I guess I have not heard anything bad about Malaysia they have been pretty liberal, neither Turkey, at least the cities in Turkey.

So what's your purpose in debating about Islam? To prove that Muslims are as they are portrayed in this movie?
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no, I simply advocate having secular states instead of religious ones.

Intentions are very important. If one wishes to increase hatred of Islam, then nothing of truth shall touch him.
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So if a Nazi says 2+2=4, its not true? Truth does not care about intention, rather it is action that is dependent on intention not truth.

S.A.M. said:
On this forum, its mostly anything goes as long as its against Muslims.
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Suck to be you.
 
Its the same type of propaganda. Even has the verses from Deuteromy thrown in for god effect. It was people like you even then shaking their heads and seeing how right the Nazis were when they made that movie
 
S.A.M. said:
Its the same type of propaganda. Even has the verses from Deuteromy thrown in for god effect. It was people like you even then shaking their heads and seeing how right the Nazis were when they made that movie
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So this film is also a product of a ruling government and was not say rejected by said government? The Dutch are not going to start hording Muslims into concentration camps, and if they do I'll object to them.
 
ElectricFetus said:
So this film is also a product of a ruling government and was not say rejected by said government? The Dutch are not going to start hording Muslims into concentration camps, and if they do I'll object to them.
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They are killing them in Afghanistan at present. Just substitute ruling government for colonial cousins/

Note that the movie is not about Dutch Muslims.

Besides, its nothing new where the Dutch are concerned. e.g. the Srebrenica massacre



Source
 
S.A.M. said:
They are killing them in Afghanistan at present. Just substitute ruling government for colonial cousins/
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They aren't being killing simply because they are muslim.

Note that the movie is not about Dutch Muslims.
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In the full movie it is: at the end/climax/crescendo its specifically about muslins in the Netherlands.

Besides, its nothing new where the Dutch are concerned. e.g. the Srebrenica massacre



Source
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So the Duntch UN battalion represents all of the dutch government and people?
 
Sure, in the same way that fitna represents Muslims, the Dutch who rode their vehicles over the people they were sent to protect represent all Dutchmen.
 
DiamondHearts said:
Lucysnow, I just want to say that although you are not Muslim, what you stated as far as the Muslim view regarding this film and how this alienates almost all Muslims is very true. You are a very intelligent person, and I am glad you are posting in this forum. If you would like to ask me anything, please PM me, it would be an honor.

Unfortunately, some people such as the producer of this film want to ban the practice of the Islamic religion from all Western countries, and to do this they will lie, deceive people, and spread false information about Islam and Muslims. Some of those who are not exposed to Muslims in the West think that somehow Muslims want to supplant the system here and force Islamic law on the populace. These people don't even know that Islamic law in Muslim countries does not apply to Non-Muslims, only those who profess themselves to be Muslims. They isolate Islamic law to isolated punishments for vague crimes, intentionally not defining them. For example, the punishment of execution for adultery is only allowed in the context if two individuals engage in this in front of four eye witnesses, yet the punishment is written to prevent the crime and dissuade others simply from the known possible crime. There are other examples, but in modern times many Islamic societies have feel into absolute ruin and anarchy, because of wars imposed on them. Do you expect war-torn Somalia and war-torn Afghanistan which have both in invaded and involved in civil wars to be an example of an enlightened Islamic state?

What we have today are the ruins of the Islamic justice system and attempt by war-torn societies to establish a minor semblance of order any way which they know how. The European colonization, genocide, and theft for 200 years of the Muslim World has left its mark on the Islamic world and what we live in today is world in which people are trying to recover a past which was stolen from us. We were forcibly secularized, we never wanted European laws, yet they didn't leave any of our old institutions intact, and they completely obliterated our independence with their chosen monarchies and dictators.

The Muslim psyche is one of a long history of victimization, subjugation, and shame at defeat. Therefore, outrage and grief are natural expressions for a people whose culture was forcibly removed from them, whose great leaders were captured, tortured, and murdered in gruesome ways, and whose way of life has been on the defensive for nearly 200 years of European intellectual, scientific, militaristic, and economic attack.
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Thank you Diamond for the offer. I think no matter our differences we have a lot to contribute in exchange with one another in these forums and I will take the opportunity in future to ask for your knowledge and perspective on issues relating to Islam and regarding Muslims both historical and current. I know there is a bias in the West and its reflected here on these boards which is unfortunate because we miss the chance to learn from each others experience and perspective.
 
Lets see what Fitna: The Sequel has to say before we get ahead of ourselves.
 
Lucysnow said:
Thank you Diamond for the offer. I think no matter our differences we have a lot to contribute in exchange with one another in these forums and I will take the opportunity in future to ask for your knowledge and perspective on issues relating to Islam and regarding Muslims both historical and current. I know there is a bias in the West and its reflected here on these boards which is unfortunate because we miss the chance to learn from each others experience and perspective.
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Agreed. I also respect your view. It is very rare for someone to show an inquisitive nature regarding modern affairs, especially in regards to Muslim affairs. Though our viewpoints are mocked and disrespected, this does not lessen the point that we indeed have much to say. We are not one dimensional savage characters who are predisposed to violence and fanaticism. It is very unfortunate that we are misunderstood in the West to such a large degree. Reading the posts from people such as you gives me hope in a future in which humanity can live as equals in mutual respect of one another.

We are not as different from other humans as some want us to believe. When we are happy, we laugh. When we are hurt, we cry. When we are wronged, we thirst for justice. When our skin is torn, we bleed the same red blood. I only hope more people can see this.

The pleasure is all mine. It is a great honor to read your posts. Please continue to honor this forum with your presence.
 
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