What do you think about this video on Islam?

[S.A.M.]

Does not matter, most so called Christan countries are secular and do not have a recognized state religion, have separation of church and state and generally don't follow edicts out of a books of mythology and fancy as law. Unlike most Muslims countries, which have sharia law or base their laws off of the koran or worse the Hadiths. The Muslims need to secularize and literally stop following most of the koran just like how most christens stop following most of the bible.

What are the laws in Christian countries based on?

And by secularize, do you mean like the western countries Muslims need to replace native populations with foreigners, invade, occupy and militarily enforce their values on other societies as the secular societies have been so fond of doing?

Secular societies have been killing millions of people since before WWI. They currently occupy several countries, supply most of the worlds weapons, exploit the poor and are currently known for torture and waterboarding of innocents who have been illegally detained. They also dehumanise the people they kill through propaganda and by considering them as collateral damages.
Why should anyone follow their values?

This movie is an excellent example of how western societies demonise the other, as a prelude to nuclear bombing, occupation or genocide [as previously seen with the Japanese, the "savages" and the Jews]

All this movie is, is an excuse to justify further occupation, murder and torture of Muslims. The fact that the movie is perpetuated and spread by atheists and anti-Muslims over and over and allowed to generate more hate is ample evidence of this fact.

How many threads have already been devoted to this movie? But its against Muslims, so even the moderation here is willing to allow many more threads on it. Anyone who demonises Muslims has an open platform on this forum.

 

[ElectricFetus]

What are the laws in Christian countries based on?

The principles of men? Morals and ideals of the time? for example separation of church and state as a law was NOT a Christian ideal, it was advocated by our deist founding fathers.

And by secularize, do you mean like the western countries Muslims need to replace native populations with foreigners, invade, occupy and militarily enforce their values on other societies as the secular societies have been so fond of doing?

Secular societies have been killing millions of people since before WWI. They currently occupy several countries, supply most of the worlds weapons, exploit the poor and are currently known for torture and waterboarding of innocents who have been illegally detained. They also dehumanise the people they kill through propaganda and by considering them as collateral damages.
Why should anyone follow their values?

So your saying because secular countries have been nationalistic and militaristic, secularism is wrong? Your right fuck secularism and these ideas of giving citizens freedoms of speech, religion, human rights, women and ethnicities equal rights, we should go back to the day and age of killing people because god commands us too! Through out the baby with the bath water you say. And the qualities you mention are not even limited to secularism: What did the ottoman empire do to the Armenians? Muslim countries don't torture or kill innocents, no they just kill women that were raped or bury them half way in the ground and stone them to death. And muslims countries certainly don't dehumanize non-believers, they just legally value non-believers lives less.

This movie is an excellent example of how western societies demonise the other, as a prelude to nuclear bombing, occupation or genocide [as previously seen with the Japanese, the "savages" and the Jews]

Considering this was not a government propaganda film its is not so great an example as you think, its simply freedom of speech at its highest.

All this movie is, is an excuse to justify further occupation, murder and torture of Muslims. The fact that the movie is perpetuated and spread by atheists and anti-Muslims over and over and allowed to generate more hate is ample evidence of this fact.

I don't see where you came to that conclusion: I see it as and advocation for Muslims to secularize.

How many threads have already been devoted to this movie? But its against Muslims, so even the moderation here is willing to allow many more threads on it. Anyone who demonises Muslims has an open platform on this forum.

Hey if you find that such a problem why don't you leave, well of course because your a uncontrollable addict but also because we give you an open platform as well.

 

[S.A.M.]

My point was that whatever Geert Wilders says that Muslims want to do or Islam teaches Muslims, is exactly what the secular countries are doing today and have been doing for the last century.

So whats the issue?

 

[ElectricFetus]

My point was that whatever Geert Wilders says that Muslims want to do or Islam teaches Muslims, is exactly what the secular countries are doing today and have been doing for the last century.

Secular countries have edicts that say they must kill all disbelievers? There a difference between nationalism, militarism, secularism and religious rule, our problem with is with religious rule, your problem is with nationalism and militarism but your erroneously place on secularism.

So whats the issue?

2 wrongs don't make a right!

 

[S.A.M.]

So you are saying what people say is more important than what they do? Who cares what the "edicts" are?

Secular countries are occupying Muslim countries and don't do body counts, they kill so many of them. If this is what Geert Wilders wants Muslims to do, he is a strange person indeed.

 

[ElectricFetus]

So you are saying what people say is more important than what they do? Who cares what the "edicts" are?

You mean Muslims don't kill people based on religious edicts, they just say they should?

Secular countries grant their citizens many freedom and rights, they just have a blind spot for other peoples, this due to nationalism and has nothing to do with secularism as it is a problem endemic to all countries.

Secular countries are occupying Muslim countries and don't do body counts, they kill so many of them. If this is what Geert Wilders wants Muslims to do, he is a strange person indeed.

Iraq and Iran killed each other with great gusto.

 

[S.A.M.]

So its better to kill and torture millions than the few? Better to exploit entire continents and destroy them completely than have strict laws? Better to economically and politically exploit the world rather than be restricted in social intercourse?

 

[ElectricFetus]

So its better to kill and torture millions than the few? Better to exploit entire continents and destroy them completely than have strict laws? Better to economically and politically exploit the world rather than be restricted in social intercourse?

I don't get your logic? secularism does not equal those things, that nationalism. Though iran and Iraq collectively killed 1.5 million of each other and constantly used religion to rally up the people, the motives of the leaders was very much nationalistic, just like the motives of the political and military leaders of secular countries.

 

[S.A.M.]

So basically Muslims should be neither religious nor nationalistic. The Iran-Iraq war was another secular nightmare [both Muslim Shia nations].

IOW, Muslims should follow either a more cruel and globally destructive ideology or behave like aliens with some other higher ideal that no one else follows.

 

[Mr. Hamtastic]

Is it ok to do something because someone else does it now or has done it in the past? I'm not trying to vilify Islam, just pointing out that the argument that it's ok for muslims because the west is doing or has done whatever is not truly justification. Perhaps some higher standard is what should be striven for instead.

Or was the Holocaust justified because the Jews had committed genocide in claiming their "promised land"? Does the one justify the other?

 

[S.A.M.]

Is it ok to do something because someone else does it now or has done it in the past? I'm not trying to vilify Islam, just pointing out that the argument that it's ok for muslims because the west is doing or has done whatever is not truly justification. Perhaps some higher standard is what should be striven for instead.

That depends. Would you consider self defence justified after years and years of oppression?

Are people allowed to get angry when they are vilified by those who would murder them for resources?

Is it justified to build a society based on genocide and then preach to everyone else about human rights without making any reparation of your wrongs?

 

[ElectricFetus]

So basically Muslims should be neither religious nor nationalistic.

No, EVERYONE should be neither intolerantly religious (if you religious don't thump it on others) nor nationalistic, everyone should be egalitarian.

The Iran-Iraq war was another secular nightmare [both Muslim Shia nations].

No, one was ruled by sunnis the other by shia, it was a mix bag of many motives.

IOW, Muslims should follow either a more cruel and globally destructive ideology or behave like aliens with some other higher ideal that no one else follows.

Yeah, that would be great, I think everyone should behave like that, but if only a few do its still worth it.

 

[S.A.M.]

No, EVERYONE should be neither intolerantly religious (if you religious don't thump it on others) nor nationalistic, everyone should be egalitarian.

No, one was ruled by sunnis the other by shia, it was a mix bag of many motives.

Yeah, that would be great, I think everyone should behave like that, but if only a few do its still worth it.

So whats your opinion of the film by Wilders? What does it represent knowing his stance on banning the Quran and limiting the immigration of Muslims into Europe [thats what Fitna 2 is about, keeping out Muslims]?

What does it represent about the Muslims you know?

 

[ElectricFetus]

That depends. Would you consider self defence justified after years and years of oppression?

Egypt, Syria, Iraq, etc were defending them selves in the yam kippur war?

Are people allowed to get angry when they are vilified by those who would murder them for resources?

By cutting off the heads of innocents? By crushing a child to death? By blowing them selves up on buses and schools, by kamakazing into civilian building thousands of miles from their homeland which is at peace with said country anyways? no, no that is very wrong.

Is it justified to build a society based on genocide and then preach to everyone else about human rights without making any reparation of your wrongs?

If a serial killers calls another serial killer a murder is that wrong?

 

[S.A.M.]

Egypt, Syria, Iraq, etc were defending them selves in the yam kippur war?

No they were defending the Palestinians. From the Jewish terrorists, like the ones who blew up other Jews and who conducted the deir yassin massacre.

By cutting off the heads of innocents? By crushing a child to death? By blowing them selves up on buses and schools, by kamakazing into civilian building thousands of miles from their homeland which is at peace with said country anyways? no, no that is very wrong.

How is a country at "peace" with another when it supports a totalitarian dictator it has helped establish?

If a serial killers calls another serial killer a murder is that wrong?

Can a serial killer be his own judge jury or executioner? But thats how the system operates.

 

[spidergoat]

Try it.

Secular societies [like Geert Wilders'] have killed and tortured the most people in this century.

True or False?

False. And out of context. If the Communists were trying to extend their influence and we used violence to stop them, we appear to be the bad guys because our actions caused death. Death isn't everything, as living under an oppressive communist police state is a fate worse than death in many ways.

 

[S.A.M.]

Both sides were secular

 

[spidergoat]

Both sides had red in their flags too. That's irrelevent.

 

[ElectricFetus]

Both sides were secular

Ruhollah Khomeini secular? YOUR HIGH!!!

 

[S.A.M.]

We're talking about the communists and allies. Do try and keep track of the conversation.

Was Khomeini's name Rohullah? Thats the Islamic title for Jesus. Hilarious.