What do atheists think that "to know God" means?

wynn

You seem to think that LG is a Christian, a "follower of Jesus."

If you do think that, can you tell us how come, based on what?
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The tenor and content of his posts and arguments. I don't particularly care what form he calls himself part of, either. It's similar to the conclusion that you are a stealth theist, it's obvious from the form of your posts and responses. I don't know why you hide it(not very well), but to each his/her own.

Grumpy:cool:
 
lightgigantic said:
I was actually explaining the construction of parody and how it need not rest on precepts of evidence and what not in order for one to fathom the intent of the author .

This intention of the author of parody often culminates in a representations of the said subject that are unique to the the general needs, interests and concerns of the author's group.

So for instance, a racist can parody the inhabitants of a country by suspending their ideas about evolution to present something that is typical and unique to racists ....... just like atheists can parody religion by suspending their ideas about the nature of the universe to present something that is typical and unique to atheists.

Hence in both cases parody, aside from making jokes at the expense of the subject, also reveal characteristics, ideas and views unique to the said party.

IOW if it was technically impossible to talk about racist concepts of race or atheist concepts of god, neither party would have access to the tool of parody.

Obviously that is not the case.
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Generally agreed, but the distinction is that their racist view on evolution departs from the standard view while the parody religions are the same as actual religions, having no major deviations - for example, the FSM simply replaces Yahweh, the creation story is the same except that gravity is explained rather than evolution, the chosen people are pirates not a desert tribe. However, there is no unconventional or radical break from the specifics of standard religions. Hence they cannot be used to reflect ideas specific to non-believers.
 
Grumpy said:
wynn



The tenor and content of his posts and arguments. I don't particularly care what form he calls himself part of, either. It's similar to the conclusion that you are a stealth theist, it's obvious from the form of your posts and responses. I don't know why you hide it(not very well), but to each his/her own.

Grumpy:cool:
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I dont think wynn is a theist [for a personal god], she is more like a theistic partisan agnostic.
 
aaqucnaona

I dont think wynn is a theist [for a personal god], she is more like a theistic partisan agnostic.
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Fair enough, but she is still on the theist side of the fence based on her responses and arguments. I just wish she would learn more about what science is and says so she would stop misrepresenting it. It is just as important that the theist understands science and what it actually says as it is for the atheists to understand and not misrepresent theism. I understand both, having studied both for decades, and rather than argue strawmen I argue the merits.

Grumpy:cool:
 
Grumpy said:
The tenor and content of his posts and arguments.
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And your biased, uneducated, superficial standards of what makes someone a Christian, or a theist.


I don't particularly care what form he calls himself part of, either. It's similar to the conclusion that you are a stealth theist, it's obvious from the form of your posts and responses. I don't know why you hide it(not very well), but to each his/her own.
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It's "obvious" only to you, from your biased, uneducated, superficial standards of what makes someone a theist.
 
aaqucnaona said:
Generally agreed, but the distinction is that their racist view on evolution departs from the standard view while the parody religions are the same as actual religions, having no major deviations - for example, the FSM simply replaces Yahweh, the creation story is the same except that gravity is explained rather than evolution, the chosen people are pirates not a desert tribe. However, there is no unconventional or radical break from the specifics of standard religions. Hence they cannot be used to reflect ideas specific to non-believers.
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Riiiight. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
wynn

And your biased, uneducated, superficial standards of what makes someone a Christian, or a theist.
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Biased, maybe, I do tend to stick with reality. Uneducated, no, nor are my standards superficial. I probably know and understand Jesus and Christianity better than you do.

It's "obvious" only to you, from your biased, uneducated, superficial standards of what makes someone a theist.
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It's obvious when you reply that YOUR bias is toward the theist side. Your attempts to be coy about it notwithstanding.

Grumpy:cool:
 
Grumpy said:
The cartoon. And I think JR is quite serious, if more forgiving than I would be in this case. But I respect his judgement and consider the case dealt with, but not closed. The whole thing would have passed if LG had just done a mia culpa but I guess that was too much to expect.
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No one denies that the cartoon was racist, but it was not used for racist purposes. To call LG's post racist is incorrect. By that logic, a song or film with the N word in it is a racist song or film.

So should we simply pretend this kind of thinking does not exist in the world? All LG did was point out how foolish that kind of mentality is. How is that wrong?

And I don't doubt JamesR is serious. I do doubt that he could have possibly reached the conclusion that LG's post was racist in nature, and I want an explanation as to how he would make such a comment.
 
aaqucnaona said:
Generally agreed, but the distinction is that their racist view on evolution departs from the standard view while the parody religions are the same as actual religions, having no major deviations - for example, the FSM simply replaces Yahweh, the creation story is the same except that gravity is explained rather than evolution, the chosen people are pirates not a desert tribe. However, there is no unconventional or radical break from the specifics of standard religions. Hence they cannot be used to reflect ideas specific to non-believers.
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There are your radical unconventional breaks in bold- with the specifics of the ideas being that they are all essentially nonsensical constructs of fantasy and whimsy that have no valid historical precedence.

IOW, just like the racist is departing from their views of evolution to present what they "really" think is the "real"picture of race issues in the context of parody , the atheist is departing from their views of the universe/historical continuum's to present what they "really" think is the "real" picture of theistic issues in the context parody

IOW its not about evolution vs religion for the sake of making a parallel - its about evolution vs views of the universe (IOW its similar in that both parties, in the pursuit of parody, suspend their ideas to highlight their "real" view of things)
 
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DaveC426913 said:
This is my claim as well.
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JDawg said:
No one denies that the cartoon was racist, but it was not used for racist purposes. To call LG's post racist is incorrect. By that logic, a song or film with the N word in it is a racist song or film.

So should we simply pretend this kind of thinking does not exist in the world? All LG did was point out how foolish that kind of mentality is. How is that wrong?

And I don't doubt JamesR is serious. I do doubt that he could have possibly reached the conclusion that LG's post was racist in nature, and I want an explanation as to how he would make such a comment.
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I guess we will have to wait for JamesR to come to the table on this one .... might even warrant a a separate thread in itself
 
lightgigantic said:
I guess we will have to wait for JamesR to come to the table on this one .... might even warrant a a separate thread in itself
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Don't hold your breath. And given the absurd disconnect of his first post on the matter, I wouldn't get my hopes high that he'll come around.
 
The mods have considered this case and ruled on it. Since it seems to have satisfied no one maybe they succeeded in slicing the baby into equal parts. But I would advise you all to move on and strictly avoid repeating the offensive behavior, but I would probably have a schadenfreude momment in the case that you don't think my advise is worth considering. Good either way, as far as I am concerned.

Carry on.

Grumpy:cool:
 
Given your own embarrassing behavior in this thread, I would not be advising anyone of anything, were I you.

And I doubt "the mods" ruled on anything. It appears JamesR made his decision without even reading the post in question. At this point, I should not be surprised that political correctness won out over reason.
 
lightgigantic said:
There are your radical unconventional breaks in bold- with the specifics of the ideas being that they are all essentially nonsensical constructs of fantasy and whimsy that have no valid historical precedence.
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So FSM would be a valid religion 2000 years from now?
 
JDawg

Given your own embarrassing behavior in this thread, I would not be advising anyone of anything, were I you.
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I didn't post a racist cartoon and pointing out the offensive behavior is not an embarassment. It will happen again if you or anyone else let's their racism show. Remove the beam from your own eye. Don't like it, report it to the mods, otherwise KMA.

And I doubt "the mods" ruled on anything. It appears JamesR made his decision without even reading the post in question. At this point, I should not be surprised that political correctness won out over reason.
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Not only did he read the post, he commented on it at the time. It seems your hatred of PC is a result of being the target of it, it overrules your reason, often. We've been through this kind of crap before, I don't back down when I think I am right. Bring it.

Grumpy:cool:
 
Arioch said:
@aaq --

Apparently anything can become true if you simply allow enough time to pass.
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Indeed. Some ships keep sailing because they are pursuing a worthy goal; but others do so only because the ship is already underway.
 
aaqucnaona said:
Ok, I will grant you that and take you up on debating an substantiation you can provide on that.
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As LG already explained, the parody religions are not the same as actual religions.

In the parody on evolution, the racist view on evolution departs from the standard view on evolution.

In the parody on religion, the atheist view on religion departs from the standard view on religion.
 
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