what defines marriage?

[Lori_7]

Genesis 24:67

Then Isaac brought her into the tent of Sarah his mother and took Rebekah, and she became his wife, and he loved her. So Isaac was comforted after his mother's death.

AND convenient for you to chop up this scripture. he "took" rebekah, and she "became" his wife. the way that reads is that she became his wife by way of him taking her, not by way of some religious ceremony.

so he had sex with her, took her as a wife, and loved her. what a novel idea.

you are suggesting that love = sex. and how preposterous is that?!?!? bahhahahaah!

 

[Lori_7]

Yes, Lori, you are using a convenient interpretation to salve the wounds of the car wreck that has been your life.

And it seems you banged your head in that wreck, and are still suffering from delusions.

You don't have a relationship with God. You aren't special. You're just damaged goods looking for a way to make herself feel better. It's quite sad.

my life isn't a car wreck. my life is a miracle.

 

[Lori_7]

and religion is convenient when it's used as a substitute for a real relationship with god, for atheists and the religious alike. the atheists because it's obvious and they can jump all over it, and for the religious because it seems easier.

who is an atheist accountable to? the police.

who is a religious person accountable to? their pastor or priest. perhaps the people in the pews staring them down every sunday morning.

and who am i accountable to? a god that is all over my ass 24/7. my creator, my salvation. i'm not fucking around.

 

[river-wind]

As an atheist, I'm accountable to my own conscience. It tells me not to place myself above others, and not to harm another person for my own gain.

 

[Lori_7]

As an atheist, I'm accountable to my own conscience. It tells me not to place myself above others, and not to harm another person for my own gain.

sounds like you have a decent conscience.

 

[Lori_7]

As an atheist, I'm accountable to my own conscience. It tells me not to place myself above others, and not to harm another person for my own gain.

you decided through experience that this was the right way to live?

you know that a lot of people don't see it that way. why do you think that is?

 

[phlogistician]

my life isn't a car wreck. my life is a miracle.

No, your life is so humdrum and pointless you had to invent an invisible friend.

Most kids grow out of that. Seems you've regressed.

 

[sandy]

Marriage is a stupid institution for stupid people who think they need another person to make them happy or complete. They don't. Marriage is fine if you plan to have kids but not necessary otherwise. Marriage=giving half your stuff to some greedy pig--usually a person who hasn't worked their whole life. Marriage in Mexico is stupid. MX is a disgusting, filthy country. Gays should stay single. Most marriages end in divorce. It's not worth the stress, aggravation and misery that come with it.

 

[Bells]

Marriage is a stupid institution for stupid people who think they need another person to make them happy or complete. They don't. Marriage is fine if you plan to have kids but not necessary otherwise. Marriage=giving half your stuff to some greedy pig--usually a person who hasn't worked their whole life.

I am guessing your parents never taught you the meaning of sharing did they? I mean if you view marriage as having to give your stuff to another, whom you deem a greedy pig, I could imagine why you should not get married.

Marriage and a relationship = Not being so selfish and self centered that you realise and recognise that there are other people around you who are just as important.. In other words, Marriage and any relationship is about less "me me me" (ie. your attitude) and more about "us". You, it seems, cannot seem to quite grasp that.

Marriage in Mexico is stupid. MX is a disgusting, filthy country.

It's a beautiful country. Shows that you really don't get out much.

Gays should stay single.

Gays should do whatever they damn well please and not be judged or forced into pigeon holes because they are gay. Gays should have the same rights as straight people.. in the right to marry and not marry if they so choose.

Most marriages end in divorce.

If they have your attitude, yeah, I can imagine why.

It's not worth the stress, aggravation and misery that come with it.

No, and heaven forbid someone should take your stuff away or you'd have to share.

 

[Lori_7]

No, your life is so humdrum and pointless you had to invent an invisible friend.

Most kids grow out of that. Seems you've regressed.

you're so full of shit.

you know what's humdrum? people taking vows in courtrooms and churches every day that don't even trust each other. not enough to make a life long commitment, thinking "well if it doesn't work out, i can always get divorced". not enough to have a child together, thinking "well we'll see how it goes for a couple of years, and then see if we're ready". and i'm not talking about financial preparedness, but emotional and mental preparedness. but hey, that lack of trust and preparation doesn't stop them from fucking around, and reciting vows, and performing ceremonies does it?

you know what's not humdrum? eight years of celibacy in the middle of your sexual prime, and for all you know, for as long as you live. why? because unless god made it perfectly clear to me that i was to do so, i was not willing to have a child with, and therefore marry, a man. i had resided myself to a vast probability that would never happen and god proved me wrong when i met my husband. so trust me when i say that putting my body, my future, and my commitment down, in front of a god that i very much believe in, by having sex with a man he gave to be my husband, and had every intention of getting me pregnant, was WAY more important to me than a ceremony.

don't get me wrong, both the ceremonies where nice. but despite their niceties, they paled in significance and importance in comparison to having sex with him.

 

[Lori_7]

Marriage is a stupid institution for stupid people who think they need another person to make them happy or complete. They don't. Marriage is fine if you plan to have kids but not necessary otherwise. Marriage=giving half your stuff to some greedy pig--usually a person who hasn't worked their whole life. Marriage in Mexico is stupid. MX is a disgusting, filthy country. Gays should stay single. Most marriages end in divorce. It's not worth the stress, aggravation and misery that come with it.

you are so hideous.

the truth is it's a covenant used in the doctrine that you propose to follow as an example of the relationship between christ and his church. it represents communion, and isolation is death. you do need other people to make you happy and complete. in fact, that's the only reason you exist. to commune. yes, even with dirty mexicans and filthy gays. you hypocrite. most marriages end in divorce because people are hateful, arrogant, lying little pigs like you are.

you are the one who is greedy, and blasphemous, as you don't even trust your own god with "half your stuff". pathetic. your stuff means nothing to god, and it means everything to you.

and if you're going to get into the kingdom, you're going to have to fall...a long way down, and it's going to hurt.

 

[river-wind]

Lori_7, it seems like I agree with you on the principals of the issue: that ceremony in unimportant to commitment; that love and connection to another person is a tremendous experience; that many people replace the difficult effort and consideration required to live up to such a commitment with veils of ceremony....however, I have to disagree with your use of the Bible to back up those things.

Judeo-Christian faith and culture is very clear about the sin of fornication (including premarital sex), and of homosexual behavior being evil. Being gay is an abomination to god, as mentioned quite clearly in the old and new testaments. While I'd take no exception if you said that your faith told you that true and honest love and and devotion was the heart and meaning of marriage, or that homosexuality was not a burn-in-hell-for-eternity sin (I'd in fact agree with you on both counts) - the bible does not support those two items.

Now Jesus himself said very little about fornication (though he did seem to support the institution of marriage and the wedding ceremony), and he said nothing about homosexuality, so the teachings of Jesus could be used to argue against being judgmental against other's behavior. But the Bible as a whole (particularly the letters of Paul), is to me quite clear on the issues.

This is part of why I rejected (edit: many of) the teachings of the Bible so early in my life - they were bigoted and morally objectionable. (edit: I should clarify - Jesus' teaching are generally awesome; it's the rest of the bible I take issue with).

Marriage is a stupid institution for stupid people who think they need another person to make them happy or complete. They don't. Marriage is fine if you plan to have kids but not necessary otherwise. Marriage=giving half your stuff to some greedy pig--usually a person who hasn't worked their whole life. Marriage in Mexico is stupid. MX is a disgusting, filthy country. Gays should stay single. Most marriages end in divorce. It's not worth the stress, aggravation and misery that come with it.

I'll take these items from a logical standpoint. Why is marriage not needed? Why is marriage needed when children are involved? Why is marriage equal to giving half your stuff away? What does Mexico have to do with anything discussed thusfar (outside of Lori_7's choice of a beach ceremony which I would say is off limits to critique with regards to the institution of marriage). why do you feel that Mexico is a bad country? Why should homosexuals "stay single" (celibate)? Actual polling data suggests that 41% of US first marriages ends in divorce; this number is lower in other nations due to cultures not supporting (or even legally allowing) divorce - so I don't think your claim here is valid. I think I agree on your last point, though I'm sad that you have suffered through such experiences to bring you to such a conclusion.

 

[Lori_7]

Lori_7, it seems like I agree with you on the principals of the issue: that ceremony in unimportant to commitment; that love and connection to another person is a tremendous experience; that many people replace the difficult effort and consideration required to live up to such a commitment with veils of ceremony....however, I have to disagree with your use of the Bible to back up those things.

Judeo-Christian faith and culture is very clear about the sin of fornication (including premarital sex), and of homosexual behavior being evil. Being gay is an abomination to god, as mentioned quite clearly in the old and new testaments. While I'd take no exception if you said that your faith told you that true and honest love and and devotion was the heart and meaning of marriage, or that homosexuality was not a burn-in-hell-for-eternity sin (I'd in fact agree with you on both counts) - the bible does not support those two items.

well, in all fairness, i haven't seen the scripture that backs that claim up, and if you have i'd appreciate you sharing it.

what the bible says is that all sin is a burn-in-hell-for-eternity sin. that's why we need christ. being a homosexual is as much of a sin as being born, and if it makes someone else feel better to think they've got a one up on god because of their "sexuality", then think again, because it's not that easy. the bible speaks of ideals that are attainable, and yet NEVER attained by human beings. none of us.

 

[jpappl]

Q

“ Originally Posted by jpappl
What Q is missing here or is purposely avoiding because he doesn't agree with it, is the many outs that are granted for our human errors. The whole thing seems like a big exercise in futility because apparently if Hitler in his heart claimed Jesus as his savior than he gets in the pearly gates.

If that's the case a little sex isn't going to keep you out. ”

I'm not missing anything here. If Christians are going to tell us how to live using scriptures, don't you think they should follow scriptures themselves? Where does it say in the bible Lori has an out for her fornication out of wedlock?

or " purposely avoiding because he doesn't agree with it"

I don't agree with Chrisitians who try to tell us how to live but can't seem to do so themselves either.

But my point is that it is futile because yes they can sin all day long and still go to heaven.

In my back and forth with christians here, the bottom line is it doesn't matter what you do in this life. In the end as long as you give your heart to Jesus your good.

Just one more contradiction.

 

[Lori_7]

Q




or " purposely avoiding because he doesn't agree with it"

I don't agree with Chrisitians who try to tell us how to live but can't seem to do so themselves either.

But my point is that it is futile because yes they can sin all day long and still go to heaven.

In my back and forth with christians here, the bottom line is it doesn't matter what you do in this life. In the end as long as you give your heart to Jesus your good.

Just one more contradiction.

being born into sin and recognizing jesus as the only way out is not contradictory.

you want to know what it's like to know god? it's like someone who's always right following you around with a mirror asking you questions about yourself and forcing you to look into it.

 

[Lori_7]

certainly you can see why people are just jumping at the chance to sign up for this!

and if "sexuality" is a reason not to, then that's a shame, but that would be said for everyone, not just gay people. it was for me. so was religion.

 

[jpappl]

being born into sin and recognizing jesus as the only way out is not contradictory.

you want to know what it's like to know god? it's like someone who's always right following you around with a mirror asking you questions about yourself and forcing you to look into it.

The point I was making is that it doesn't matter what sins are listed in the Bible.

In the end, the only thing that Christians have to really do is to believe Jesus is their savior.

Correct ?

 

[wsionynw]

Marriage is a stupid institution for stupid people who think they need another person to make them happy or complete. They don't. Marriage is fine if you plan to have kids but not necessary otherwise. Marriage=giving half your stuff to some greedy pig--usually a person who hasn't worked their whole life. Marriage in Mexico is stupid. MX is a disgusting, filthy country. Gays should stay single. Most marriages end in divorce. It's not worth the stress, aggravation and misery that come with it.

I take it he said "no" then.

 

[river-wind]

well, in all fairness, i haven't seen the scripture that backs that claim up, and if you have i'd appreciate you sharing it.

And in all fairness, you'll be correct. If you don't take fornication to include premarital sex, then the Bible doesn't explicitly talk about premarital sex. I have to resort to anthropological sources to define that word to try and convince you; I don't know of any sources recognized as scripture by modern Christians that define that word.

 

[gendanken]

Lori:

first part...when my rjr6 and i first had sexual intercourse, i considered myself to be his wife. i was committed to him and the relationship in that way.

I want to see something here:

Both of you had a mutual desire for each other's happiness,
Both had a mutual desire for each other's safety.

You were honest, caring, loving little proles who could understand each other without speaking.

You trusted each other with things like money and assets.

In other words, good people at the exclusion of everyone else ...

.....and yet it took him sticking his veiny proboscis between the folds of a slimy cunt for you to consider him worthy of respecting and loving "completely"?


Is the vagina that powerful?