what defines marriage?

phlogistician said:
Quite the opposite, but it seems you haven't noticed in this debate I am taking the position that if we take God's word and the bible as correct, it proves that your lifestyle choices are sinful.
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why are atheist always trying to prove how sinfull christians are?...

1 John 1:8
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us

duh..we are all sinners..

Show me just ONE scriptural reference that says sex = marriage then. Nothing vague, or open to your twisted interpretations.
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show me one scriptual reference that says it is ok to have sex outside of marriage..
if there were proof one way or another there would be no need for disscussion..
why do you insist on law?..why is the law there? do you think we would need law if we were capable of moderating ourselves?

And the demon that is leading you to Hell agrees.
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do you see him? get yur shotgun!

and how quickly the atheist tells the theist, she is going to hell...weren't you one of the ones accusing the christians of that?
 
Lori_7 said:
no, the month. can't you read?

and what in the hell do you think "go in unto her" means? are you kidding me?!
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Going into the house where she's been residing for the previous month, obviously.

I put a challenge to you to provide a clear piece of scripture that mentions sex. All you can do interpret things to imply sex, that have other interpretations, and more apt ones at that.

Again you fail.

But then, you failed to explain how Mary could be a wife and a virgin at the same time, and that's from the New Testament, proving you have no argument at all.

You fail.
 
NMSquirrel said:
why are atheist always trying to prove how sinfull christians are?...

1 John 1:8
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us

duh..we are all sinners..
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Using scripture on an atheist, ... don't you understand how pointless that is? I do not live my life by your bible. Quoting scripture at me to say I am a sinner when I don't believe in the veracity of the source or the concept of 'sin' is worthless.

show me one scriptual reference that says it is ok to have sex outside of marriage..
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That isn't the debate we are having. I am taking the position that Lori is wrong to state that marriage = sex, and people are married simply by the act of sex. Scriptural references (which apply to Lori, as she believes that stuff) have proven her wrong. She has yet to substantiate her claims with clearly interpretable scripture.
 
phlogistician said:
Going into the house where she's been residing for the previous month, obviously.

I put a challenge to you to provide a clear piece of scripture that mentions sex. All you can do interpret things to imply sex, that have other interpretations, and more apt ones at that.

Again you fail.
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she had been in HIS house for a month. what makes you think he did not enter his own house during that month? nothing logical, that's for sure! apt my ass.

But then, you failed to explain how Mary could be a wife and a virgin at the same time, and that's from the New Testament, proving you have no argument at all.

You fail.
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marriage is a covenant regarding sex. if you have sex outside of the covenant, it is transgression. and it's actually transgression to refuse your mate sex inside the covenant as well! joseph and mary were under instruction, and because of it, waited to consummate their marriage with...you guessed it...sex. if marriage was not about sex, the instruction wouldn't have been necessary! ceremonies do not establish covenants. ceremonies are rituals. a ritual may SYMBOLIZE a covenant, but it is not the covenant itself. the intentions and actions of the involved parties establish the covenant. the marriage covenant is not about taking part in a ritual.
 
did you watch the flyleaf video i posted?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X5lbZi6UUo

first of all, i saw this band last year at rock on the range in columbus and they are excellent! i didn't realize their heavy christian message though until i watched their videos on youtube the other night.

so anyway, the lady who fronts this band is a professed christian, and i swear to you, that if i didn't know any better, i would think that video is about me, and the better, most influential part of my life. what a coincidence!

did you notice there's a wedding ceremony in the video? so what's going on in that scene? is it the making of a covenant? it looks to me more like the making of some traumatic bullshit.

haha...notice her expression about 42 seconds in. i'm pretty sure that was my expression throughout my entire 20's. hahaha. funny stuff.
 
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Lori_7 said:
she had been in HIS house for a month. what makes you think he did not enter his own house during that month? nothing logical, that's for sure! apt my ass.
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Scriptures clearly detail that women should be given private rooms where men may not enter. That's covered in scripture Jan. Clearly this part is saying that he isn't to have any contact with the woman (certainly not sexual) for a month. This waiting period if part of a marriage process or ceremony. Marriage ceremonies are MORE THAN JUST SEX/.

marriage is a covenant regarding sex.
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Got a scriptural reference to back that assertion up? 23 pages and you still can't. Why don't you just skulk off?
 
phlogistician said:
Scriptures clearly detail that women should be given private rooms where men may not enter. That's covered in scripture Jan. Clearly this part is saying that he isn't to have any contact with the woman (certainly not sexual) for a month. This waiting period if part of a marriage process or ceremony. Marriage ceremonies are MORE THAN JUST SEX/.
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oh i see, a private room. that's not what you suggested originally you know. and so what do you think went on after a month, when he "entered the room"?



Got a scriptural reference to back that assertion up? 23 pages and you still can't. Why don't you just skulk off?
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Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.


Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. ...


And large crowds followed him, and he healed them there. And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?” He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” ...


But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.


Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.


Or do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, “The two will become one flesh.”


Or do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.


And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”


ccordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.


And if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.”


“Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”

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there you go. take your pick. there are more that say the exact same thing, but i hardly think it necessary to continue to cut and paste when you could just look at the link i provided.

now then, you find ONE scripture in the link that says a ceremony is required.

this horse has been dead for a long time now.
 
OK, so a lot of tangential references, but still NOTHING that proves your point, nor deals with the FACT that Mary and Joseph were MARRIED while she was still a VIRGIN, proving your claims to be WRONG.

WRONG LORI.

Get it, you are wrong.

The marriage ceremonies are clearly detailed in scriptures that pre-date the NT Lori. If you'd read any scripture, you'd know that.
 
In my view marriage simply means two people have their relationship formally solemnised according to the prescribed legal form. I know there is 'secular' civil marriage and 'religious' marriage, but whether you look at civil marriage or religious marriage, it basically involves a solemn set of binding promises made by two people (a man and woman in most cultures) which formalises their relationship with each other and also provides a form of social recognition.

Marriage in my view is basically a type of contract, although unlike other contracts, one party can't sue the other to perform their contractual obligations, or try and seek damages as a remedy if the contract is broken or breached.
 
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