what defines marriage?

[phlogistician]

god is the reason that everything exists, including me.

No, man invented God. We exist because of nature. You, Lori, are a puddle. You think the hole you are in suits you so perfectly, the entire Universe must have been created 'just so' for you to exist. You have just got it backwards, as usual. If the Universe were different, life it it existed, would be different. If the Universe were devoid of life, there'd be nobody to invent God.

and the bible is examples of how god has and will humble and transform some people.

No, it's just a badly written book that you selectively interpret for your own convenience.

i am one of those people.

Typical whacko xtian? Yep, you sure are.

you want to say i'm religious because i believe in god, fine. but my life, and my commitments are not determined by ceremonies, rituals, or denominations. my life is determined by god himself.

And believing on God is what makes you religious. But at least you've stopped misinterpreting the dictionary, and appear to accept that you are religious.

experiencing the effect that forgiveness had on me was one of the first things to enable me to relate to the bible.

Again you have it backwards. YOU are supposed to forgive first. It's not about you being forgiven, but forgiving others. How come Christians can read a message about selflessness, and turn it into something self serving?

but it goes beyond that in the text. jesus is actually the atonement. the ultimate sacrifice. he was the spotless lamb. spotless, as in sinless. and through him we can get to that place too. a place where forgiveness isn't even relevant anymore.

Sinless? When he was shagging Mary Magdelene and Judas? Please.

he turned water into wine at a wedding reception. do you think that means that he was advocating alcoholism?

That was a euphemism Lori. Why do Christians miss the obvious, and assume the mystic. I'll explain it to you because clearly it went over your head. Jesus did not turn water into wine literally. The wine ran out. This is embarrassing for the hosts. So Jesus told people to drink water, and to prevent the embarrassment of their hosts, the guests said it tasted as good as wine. It was a lesson about being selfless, about thinking about the feelings of the hosts, and people who were getting married, and not selfishly demanding more wine, when water would suffice. DO YOU GET IT YET?

i don't recall a biblical description of the wedding ceremony between jesus and mary magdelene.

Given the bible has been edited and corrupted, and she was categorised as a whore by a patriarchal society, why would you find that reference? If it still exists, it's probably safely locked away from prying eyes in a Vatican archive. So much for the bible being the inerrant word of God. It's a political pamphlet.

do you think that means jesus didn't really give a flying fuck what the pharisees or anybody else thought or had to say about his decision? it was none of their business.

No, and I think you need to try and comprehend what I actually say, rather than just pick a fight every time. Go read the quote Heart provided.

don't preach to me.

It's not preaching to admit it's harder to stand on your own two feet Lori. it should be obvious to you.

the answers are not easy, forgiveness is not easy, your rewards "are in heaven", and all you do is think. and none of it is convenient.

Being rewarded with everlasting life and forgiveness is not a convenience, or self serving?

I do not believe I will get such a reward. Simply, I am good to people, because of a much simpler idea. 'Do as you would be done by.' Try it. It works.

you introduce me to the scientist that introduced me to god, and i'll believe you.

Why do you need to twist everything? I said the experience of God can be recreated in the Lab. Some people may suffer the mental aberration that gives the impression naturally. I didn't say you had your experience induced, only that it could be.

 

[Lori_7]

No, man invented God. We exist because of nature. You, Lori, are a puddle. You think the hole you are in suits you so perfectly, the entire Universe must have been created 'just so' for you to exist. You have just got it backwards, as usual. If the Universe were different, life it it existed, would be different. If the Universe were devoid of life, there'd be nobody to invent God.

nature is a manifestation of god, and would still be, even if you or i weren't here.

No, it's just a badly written book that you selectively interpret for your own convenience.

it's obvious you missed the message then.

Typical whacko xtian? Yep, you sure are.

humbled and transformed.

And believing on God is what makes you religious. But at least you've stopped misinterpreting the dictionary, and appear to accept that you are religious.

there's another thread on that right now...theism vs religion. you can call me what you want, i still won't equate my life to a ceremony.

Again you have it backwards. YOU are supposed to forgive first. It's not about you being forgiven, but forgiving others. How come Christians can read a message about selflessness, and turn it into something self serving?

really preacher man? i was referring to me forgiving someone. how come atheists can read a statement about forgiveness, and turn it into something self serving?

Sinless? When he was shagging Mary Magdelene and Judas? Please.

judas? did that story come out of your porn library?

That was a euphemism Lori. Why do Christians miss the obvious, and assume the mystic. I'll explain it to you because clearly it went over your head. Jesus did not turn water into wine literally. The wine ran out. This is embarrassing for the hosts. So Jesus told people to drink water, and to prevent the embarrassment of their hosts, the guests said it tasted as good as wine. It was a lesson about being selfless, about thinking about the feelings of the hosts, and people who were getting married, and not selfishly demanding more wine, when water would suffice. DO YOU GET IT YET?

now who is interpreting for convenience?

Given the bible has been edited and corrupted, and she was categorised as a whore by a patriarchal society, why would you find that reference? If it still exists, it's probably safely locked away from prying eyes in a Vatican archive. So much for the bible being the inerrant word of God. It's a political pamphlet.

well how convenient for you then.

No, and I think you need to try and comprehend what I actually say, rather than just pick a fight every time. Go read the quote Heart provided.

aw. i'm picking fights huh? by saying there's nothing in the bible mandating a ceremony for marriage?

It's not preaching to admit it's harder to stand on your own two feet Lori. it should be obvious to you.

who's feet do you think i'm standing on?

Being rewarded with everlasting life and forgiveness is not a convenience, or self serving?

I do not believe I will get such a reward. Simply, I am good to people, because of a much simpler idea. 'Do as you would be done by.' Try it. It works.

thank you st. phlog for those pearls of wisdom, but it's clear as i look out my window that your efforts aren't working. we have to do something more difficult than that.

Why do you need to twist everything? I said the experience of God can be recreated in the Lab. Some people may suffer the mental aberration that gives the impression naturally. I didn't say you had your experience induced, only that it could be.

what experience are you talking about specifically? what is this study and what are the results? i need details.

 

[NMSquirrel]

Matthew 5:17-20
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

what does it mean 'fulfill'?
(not what does the word fulfill mean..)

I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

what does it mean 'accomplished'?

Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven,]

AND? ..so i can break a commandment im safe, but if i teach someone else to break a commandmnent..i lose??
also..
..where would the world be if it wasn't worded that way?

[QUOTE but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [/QUOTE]

hmm i noticed it didn't say 'all' in that verse..

For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

like ive said before..my belief is based on my own experiances and not by some guy behind a pulpit..so of course its a little off..most of what (i think) god taught me is in the bible..i didn't start reading the bible till i was 30.

and..
Romans 13:8-10
8Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. 9The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet,"[a] and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." 10Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Squirrel regarding the old testament law-Quit pretending you’ve never heard of:Matthew 5:17-20

do you know of anyone that has not broken any of the ten commandments?
we as a species cannot keep the law,there is more to it than that..
i still struggle with "Love your neighbor as yourself ". one must first figure out how to love yourself..
do i know if i will get into heaven?..don't know..but i think so..
will i go to hell?..don't know..hope not..
do i live my live constantly thinking about how messed up i am?
been there,done that..it gets old..and how much of that is caused by other ppl telling me about how messed up i am..
do i live my life constantly thinking about how great i am?
yeah right..i know i am messed up..can't be that great..

also..

there is the issue of predestination..did i sin bad enough for me to be excluded from heaven already?..before i even sinned?..
what about 'to err is human'
i'm human..so is everyone messed up or just me?..too easy..its easier to see how someone else is messed up.
so is all of humanity doomed to hell?...
if so why did he send jesus?

 

[phlogistician]

nature is a manifestation of god, and would still be, even if you or i weren't here.

Nope. Man invented God. Nature just exists.

it's obvious you missed the message then.

No, I got the message loud and clear. It's the message the Council of Nicea wanted to send when they edited your bible. It's the message from the Roman Empire. The method to unify, and control the masses. It's a political pamphlet.

humbled and transformed.

The surpeme being, creator of the entire Universe, chose you to speak to, allegedly, and you think you sound humble?

there's another thread on that right now...theism vs religion. you can call me what you want, i still won't equate my life to a ceremony.

Can you stop twisting things? Belief in God = Religion. You convolve ceremony into that, and then disavow ceremony, as if that also disavows you of being religious. It doesn't. It just means you were incorrect to initially convolve the two. Stop playing dishonest games.

really preacher man? i was referring to me forgiving someone.

Then you need to work on your grammar. Your sentence should have read 'experiencing the effect that forgiving had'. You are judged by what you write. So write it properly.

judas? did that story come out of your porn library?

Keep the ad homs out of it please. There are passages in the bible that demonstrate a physical closeness of Jesus and one of his followers, and that guy is thought to be Judas. I thought you'd read the bible?

now who is interpreting for convenience?

Is there a message in the bible? Or was Jesus just some conjurer? Seems to you, the latter. Tricks for the masses, not life lessons. Shame on you.

well how convenient for you then.

Does it mention Jesus using the lavatory in the Bible? NO. Does this mean Jesus never took a shit?

aw. i'm picking fights huh? by saying there's nothing in the bible mandating a ceremony for marriage?

Heart provided a quote from Matthew, where your very own Messiah stated that he did not come to overturn everything. Therefore, the bible if not the sole source of religious wisdom or practice, and Jesus himself acknowledges ALL former practices. Maybe if you'd read your bible, you'd know this.

Also, as I said above, the fact that the bible doesn't mention everything, doesn't mean it's excluded.

who's feet do you think i'm standing on?

Yours, and leaning o the crutch of religion.

thank you st. phlog for those pearls of wisdom, but it's clear as i look out my window that your efforts aren't working. we have to do something more difficult than that.

How do you see my life looking out of your window? 'Do as you would be done by' works for me.

what experience are you talking about specifically? what is this study and what are the results? i need details.

I provided the link already in this thread. Maybe if you weren't so narrow minded you'd have read them when I linked to them, rather than ignoring them. Go re-read the thread, and find the links, or google for Dr Persinger.

 

[phlogistician]

what does it mean 'fulfill'?
(not what does the word fulfill mean..)

It doesn't mean to disagree with them, alter them, destroy them, or say they are no longer relevant.
You've been hung out by your own scripture. Be gracious enough to admit so.

 

[Lori_7]

what does it mean 'fulfill'?
(not what does the word fulfill mean..)

i think it means that he is the embodiment of it. christ is the human and genetic manifestation of god, the creator. the creator may not just determine the law, it may actually be the law according to which things are created. the father. christ is also the atonement. this biological manifestation of god is the atonement and when we are made like christ in the flesh, we will be at one with god the creator.

what does it mean 'accomplished'?

the abolition of sin?

 

[phlogistician]

So Lori, 'God' told you to kill anybody yet?

 

[NMSquirrel]

No, I got the message loud and clear. It's the message the Council of Nicea wanted to send when they edited your bible. It's the message from the Roman Empire. The method to unify, and control the masses.

which is why i can't buy into the idea of the bible being written by gods own hand..

It's a political pamphlet.

lol..hmm..never thought of it as a pamphlet...

The surpeme being, creator of the entire Universe, chose you to speak to, allegedly, and you think you sound humble?

i don't know what to think of lori's take on it..as for me god is alot more subtler..if you aren't listening then you can't hear him..and when you are listening to him it takes more than your ears to hear him..

Belief in God = Religion.

so a person can grow up to be a recluse (per se) and not participate in any religious anything, you are saying it is not possible for him to believe in god?

You are judged by what you write. So write it properly.

carefull what you ask for...

I thought you'd read the bible?

which brings up the question of what do you think a christian should be like?
and why is it so critical that you not be wrong?

Does it mention Jesus using the lavatory in the Bible? NO. Does this mean Jesus never took a shit?

why do you think he is so found of palm trees..

Therefore, the bible if not the sole source of religious wisdom or practice,

change the 'if' to 'is' and i will agree..

Heart provided a quote from Matthew, where your very own Messiah stated that he did not come to overturn everything. and Jesus himself acknowledges ALL former practices.

jesus said follow me, do as i teach and you won't have to worry about breaking the ten commandments..the ten commandments are still there..but our focus should be on him and not the ten commandments, if our focus is on him and doing as he teaches we will not break any of the ten commandments..

Maybe if you'd read your bible, you'd know this.

BTW..i have been doing alot more bible reading/study since i have been trying to link verses into a point..thanks phlo..
(usually its only on sunday.)

Also, as I said above, the fact that the bible doesn't mention everything, doesn't mean it's excluded.

do you really think god taught us everything we need to know in that one little book?

How do you see my life looking out of your window? 'Do as you would be done by' works for me.

do unto others as you would have them do for you.?
isn't that in (or from) the bible?

 

[NMSquirrel]

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them

i think it means that he is the embodiment of it. christ is the human and genetic manifestation of god, the creator. the creator may not just determine the law, it may actually be the law according to which things are created. the father. christ is also the atonement. this biological manifestation of god is the atonement and when we are made like christ in the flesh, we will be at one with god the creator.

that sounds like a script lori..something you learned from religion..it makes you sound programmed...what does all that mean to you personally..use your own words not those of anyone else..the bible is there to help you communicate, use it..don't abuse it..

and it doesn't really answer the question..

It doesn't mean to disagree with them, alter them, destroy them, or say they are no longer relevant.

aren't we having this discussion in another thread?
i just posted something about this..

You've been hung out by your own scripture. Be gracious enough to admit so.

i admit..i am a sinner..

 

[Lori_7]

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them




that sounds like a script lori..something you learned from religion..it makes you sound programmed...what does all that mean to you personally..use your own words not those of anyone else..the bible is there to help you communicate, use it..don't abuse it..

and it doesn't really answer the question..

i apologize; i'll elaborate.


a·tone·ment (-tnmnt)
n.
1. Amends or reparation made for an injury or wrong; expiation.
2.
a. Reconciliation or an instance of reconciliation between God and humans.
b. Atonement Christianity The reconciliation of God and humans brought about by the redemptive life and death of Jesus.
3. Obsolete Reconciliation; concord.


atonement is made for transgression of "the law", and transgression of the law is called sin. prior to christ, atonement was made with rules and punishments, and sacrifice. but the atonement in christ is made through his physical body. christ was born without sin, and is the human manifestation of god (the law). one day we will have bodies like christ. that's what the communion ceremony is about. and when we do, we will become one with god, in the flesh. i've said before that i think sin is genetic, and when it's gone, there won't be any more transgression.

so you could say that "the law" is coded right into us through our genes, through christ. i actually think there's something to the whole da vinci code/bloodline of christ/holy grail thing, but that's probably digressing.

what do we think god is anyway in relation to the law? i don't think god is in an office somewhere in heaven drafting the universe and all of it's laws. i think god IS the universe. i think god IS the law. sin separates us from that and makes us wrong.

if jesus is a perfect person, then you could say he is the embodiment of the law.

 

[Lori_7]

So Lori, 'God' told you to kill anybody yet?

that's not a very nice thing to say.

 

[Lori_7]

do unto others as you would have them do for you.?
isn't that in (or from) the bible?

irony is funny sometimes.

 

[IamJoseph]

what defines marriage?

A 'WRITTEN' "CONTRACT" - with clauses, executed and signed with bona fide WITNESSES. Its a legal treatise agreement between two parties.

 

[phlogistician]

that's not a very nice thing to say.

It was a question, not a statement. So you mean, 'that wasn't a very nice thing to ask'.

Anyway, has 'God' asked you to do anything that people would be uncomfortable with (if not asked by 'God'.)?

 

[phlogistician]

so a person can grow up to be a recluse (per se) and not participate in any religious anything, you are saying it is not possible for him to believe in god?

No. I said that believing in God means a person is religious. I made no statement about the converse relation whatsoever.

which brings up the question of what do you think a christian should be like?

They should act like Jesus? Is that so hard to imagine?

change the 'if' to 'is' and i will agree..

Oops, yes, that ws a typo.

do unto others as you would have them do for you.?
isn't that in (or from) the bible?

Do you think it's in there, because it's divinely inspired, or just a common sense approach when living in society?

 

[S.A.M.]

So, what defines marriage?

 

[Lori_7]

It was a question, not a statement. So you mean, 'that wasn't a very nice thing to ask'.

Anyway, has 'God' asked you to do anything that people would be uncomfortable with (if not asked by 'God'.)?

most people would be uncomfortable if i said god asked me to do anything. most people are uncomfortable when i testify to any influence from god whatsoever.

but, though god didn't ask, he has encouraged me to forgive people, and forgiving others can make a lot of people uncomfortable.

he encourages me to help people, to reach out to people who are lonely, and that would make some other people uncomfortable.

he asked me to write someone i didn't know a letter once, and it made me so uncomfortable that i protested and procrastinated. then he asked me to send that same person flowers (they were sick). he actually didn't ask these things, he told me to. and when i sat down to write something along the lines of "get well soon" to send with the flowers, 7 paragraphs of some really great poetry came out of me (that i didn't write). and when i told people about that, it made almost everyone uncomfortable.

 

[(Q)]

So, what defines marriage?

According to Lori; penetration. That is, when she decides which penetration.

The first one? Nope. The next, or the next or the next? Nope. How about this one? Yeah, okay, she's married now. LOL!

 

[(Q)]

most people would be uncomfortable if i said god asked me to do anything.

You mean, like people who watch the sod standing atop his soapbox in Hyde Park?

Or, maybe they just back away slowing trying not to make eye contact. LOL!

 

[S.A.M.]

According to Lori; penetration. That is, when she decides which penetration.

The first one? Nope. The next, or the next or the next? Nope. How about this one? Yeah, okay, she's married now. LOL!

Thats not just Lori's definition, its quite common across the world - if you don't believe me read the romances which flood the market - stuff like this:

So anyone else have any other POV?