What are the DEMONS intentions?

[Cottontop3000]

Cottontop3000,But such is life. Insisting that life must be blissful 24/7 is one of the most harmful beliefs one can hold. This belief turns the slightest discomfort into a catastrophe of cosmic proportions.

You're so right. You've put into a short sentence (at least some of us are brief and concise ), what I think I've known for a long time, but have refused to accept because I've always expected so much more out of life, myself and God.

This may seem inappropriate here, but. "Groundhog day", one of the most inspiring films I have ever seen. As long as one tries to control everything, tries to succeed through conceit, manipulate others, one will never be happy, and it will be like the same day is repeating over and over again.

A favorite of mine too. And, again, I think you are exactly right.

I think it should work without those meds. Meds are making you into something you really aren't, and they may even alter personality in the long run.

Most of my family, I think, feels the same way. They feel that God can fix everything if I will just let Him. Maybe they are right, on one hand, if I will let Him. On the other hand, for me, I KNOW that without the meds., I feel much more suicidal. They generally haven't helped me feel the way that I want them too, to the extreme, probably, that I want them too. But they have made it easier, for the whole 5-6 years that I've been on them, to say to myself, "I don't want to kill myself today." They do do that. As to what they may do long-term, I worry about that too. Hopefully someday, I will try it without them again and be okay, but I don't think it's time yet.

Yes. Both Christian and non-Christian idealists tend to fall prey to believing that life is only worth living if it is 24/7 bliss, otherwise it is a catastrophe not worth living and one is better off dead than suffering for one moment.The source of this is an unrealistic idealism that is not native to Christianity, but when it is within Christianity, it is more dangerous as it pulls in various beliefs about God and distorts His image, as well as an individual's image of himself in relation to God.

I think you are reading my mind. Like I said before, I think you are one of the smartest, and maybe most centered people, I've ever known. In my opinion ya'll. At least, your words ring very true to me. I think the above is why I, maybe irrationaly, blame God so much for everything. I've always had extremely high expectations of myself, God and everyone around me. I know I am a perfectionist. It has it's good side, in some circumstances, but I also know it has a very bad side. The side that almost forces me to expect way too much from myself, others and God. I'm going to try to change that.

Being in bliss all the time is irresponsible escapism, it means one isn't engaging with a world where suffering is real. This backfires, and even the truly happy times aren't felt as happy anymore, as the belief that life must be bliss 24/7 disables all realistic measurements.

Again, I think you are so right. This means something to me.

Freedom is probably the most scary thing there is.
And we suffer because we wish for the wrong things, or because we cling on to perishable things, depend on them and think that without them, we are nothing.

Yes, I've learned over the last 5 years, I think, that in order for me to find myself, even in a tiny way, I had to give up almost everything. Live a very spartan life, alone, without influence of family or friends for the most part. I don't know if this is the only way, or the best way, for you, but for me it was imperative that I not hurt anyone else again in my life, and the only way I thought I could do that, was to keep them away. So that the opportunity did not even arise. In this time of loneliness, pain, and introspection, I have succeeded for the most part in not hurting anyone but myself. It has not been great for me, but it is getting better, and I think that in this process, I have found a part of the real me. Slowly but surely.

I don't know about that. The Bible says people will be transformed then, be something else than what they are now, so the earthly and the heavenly state don't have much in common, I guess.

Fine. I don't know either. But I think it is a good question, one that has raised a lot of the doubts I have had in my mind about whether God really exists. I don't know why, for sure, that I have such a need to know if God exists, but up until now I have had this strong need to know. Maybe I've already answered my own question though. I am a person who expects too much. I think that I have learned recently, and it has become easier to accept, that I can't really find that answer in this life, for me anyway. Maybe someday I will come to believe that it is okay not to know. I think that will make life easier for me, but at the same time, I think I will always want to know if I'm right or not. (The perfectionist in me, again.)

Personally, I'm not interested in what happens after death.

I've said that too, but it's hard to make myself truly believe myself when I do.

Nothing is wrong with that, and God should be expected to deliver what He promised.
The danger of having sky high expectations from God is in forgetting to do our own part, neglecting to do our own part.

So true.

How do you mean? You think you will end up in hell automatically because you haven't been perfect from the beginning?

No, I think that God should have forgiven Adam and Eve right then, and not thrown them to the wolves of this world in such a harsh and seemingly unforgiving manner. We sometimes give someone a second chance, or a third even, before we inflict a harsh punishment. Why couldn't God? (this leads to so many questions for me, but I will refrain for now.) I don't know.

I think this is unfair to say. We do are able to know something about God.

Maybe you're right.

back at ya.....
* * *

Crunchy Cat,
For me, it is easier to suspend judgment than to set expectations aside. I can tell myself "Don't judge", and it works. If I tell myself "Put those expectations aside", it doesn't work.
I make an assessment of said thing or situation, but this is only with the intent to know what it is. Some people still view this as judging and then accuse me of arguing for arguing's sake. When I am in fact just trying to find out what said thing was about. The empiric method isn't very popular, for some reason ... eh.

I think suspending either can be hard at times, for some of us, depending on your mood at the time (and other things), and I don't really think you can answer this question in any absolute, undeniably right way. But it doesn't really matter if we can or not, as long as each of you can accept and live with your own individual belief. I think that everyone of us is completely unique, and thus cannot be expected to be completely identical.

"Crunchy Cat" ... for some reason, this name evokes in me the "Milky Way" candy bar, completely, in the design of the wrapper and the taste of the chocolate.

I think Kit Kat, or Nestle Crunch.

 

[Cottontop3000]

I don't understand how I could ever need "God". It must be because I don't understand what it is.

I think you're right, and that is fine, in my opinion (I think). I think I feel the need so strongly because I was raised in a home so dominated by the presence of God and Jesus. I was raised in a very strict Southern Baptist environment, so God is so interwoven into my being, that to start questioning Him, which I did when I was 18, was tantamount to questioning every fiber of my being. From 18 to 29, my doubts about Him grew and grew, I questioned my self more and more, I lost any guidance I had relied upon up until this point (self-guidance, spiritual guidance, whatever), and I slowly evolved (or devolved?) into an Atheist. I thought that He had betrayed me. Left me to suffer. Maybe I was irrational about it, I don't really know, and maybe I will never know. But I need to know. I need God to fulfill my expectations of Him so that I no longer feel betrayed. So that I can forgive Him, so to speak, and get on with my life. Maybe he doesn't deserve my forgiveness, maybe I am right, and thus maybe He doesn't exist, simply because if He's not what I expect, then He can't exist. Maybe not logical, but emotional and irrational. Maybe He just doesn't exist in the form that I expected Him to take, but does exist. The form that I perceived Him to Have may be an illusion formed by my misinterpretations of what I was taught as a young child. I don't KNOW. But I sure wish I did. That's what I've been looking for here, on this forum, and maybe I have found something that I can live with. We will see. All I can do is keep trying. Sometimes, though, that is the hard part for me.

P.S. If I just lower my expectations of Him and myself, I feel like I am betraying myself and God. I worry that if I do that, yes, I might end up in Hell. If I'm not strong enough to meet my expectations of myself, based on what I perceive as God's expectations of me, then I am a failure and will possibly go to Hell. So to lower those expectations is, on the one hand, very dangerous for me, and on the other, possibly, very necessary for my continued survival in this life. This is the power of conditioning (my view). Whether this is the only problem I have, I doubt. But this one is tough for me.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Crunchy Cat,

For me, it is easier to suspend judgment than to set expectations aside. I can tell myself "Don't judge", and it works. If I tell myself "Put those expectations aside", it doesn't work.
I make an assessment of said thing or situation, but this is only with the intent to know what it is. Some people still view this as judging and then accuse me of arguing for arguing's sake. When I am in fact just trying to find out what said thing was about. The empiric method isn't very popular, for some reason ... eh.

Maybe it was learned to suspend judgment earlier on which could explain
why it works and expectations are challenging. Practice may be the best
option.

"Crunchy Cat" ... for some reason, this name evokes in me the "Milky Way" candy bar, completely, in the design of the wrapper and the taste of the chocolate.

Yep, it evokes any number of food / candy options for me as well... stays
"Crunchy" in milk even. You know an online name is good if it makes you
hungry.

 

[Yorda]

I think I feel the need so strongly because I was raised in a home so dominated by the presence of God and Jesus.

Ah.. I see. I didn't even know about God until I went to school. God didn't exist in my life when I was small. Later, when I grew up, (I was about 15) I found out more about God and thought everything about it was ridiculous, so I became a sort of atheist. I became interrested in science. Then slightly later (I was 17), I realised that there also is truth in God and ALL religions... the wisdom.. I knew where it all came from. I know that God is within... he is our real self. We have to become God. We have to become ourselves. Humans feel incomplete because they think they are merely a body... a body shows only one side, male or female. In God, there is no duality.

I heard you saw the movie 'The Cube'. This cube "symbolises" ourselves, the people are trapped inside themselves, in their mind, trying to find a way out and what it's all about. They don't know how they got there, and similarly, ordinary humans don't how it's possible that they exist. The traps in the movie also makes sense, because there are lots of traps in our mind. We often do wrong things, and we have to... so that we learn what is right.

In one part of the movie a person says: "you have to save yourselves from yourselves". So indeed, this cube means ourselves. It may sound impossible to you, but I really believe that this world we live in is our mind... and the world is inside the mind, not the other way around. I don't think there is any external 'material' world. I recently saw the last, the 3rd of the cube series... but the first one is without a doubt the best. I like mysterious movies like this which question existence and stuff....

I thought that He had betrayed me. Left me to suffer.

For me it was the opposite. I never stopped believing in God because I suffered, my belief got stronger!... Well... I don't know if I've ever had a "belief" though... I just don't get it. I could never believe in just one religion, and throw away everything else... I see the same truth in all religions. I have never thought the belief in God could help me any way, except that I have fun thinking about it.

I don't see God as a human being... a person (like christians do?). I could never say that the things in my life is his fault. He can't do anything about it. For me, God is a not conscious being.

Maybe he doesn't deserve my forgiveness, maybe I am right, and thus maybe He doesn't exist, simply because if He's not what I expect, then He can't exist.

I see God as a kind of higher self. If you've read psychology, you know. Conscience is the voice of God.

The form that I perceived Him to Have may be an illusion formed by my misinterpretations of what I was taught as a young child. I don't KNOW.

How do you perceive god then?

All I can do is keep trying.

I think all you have to do is stay alive and live through your life as it is. People evolve as time goes. By suffering. The only way to escape the endless cycle of life is to live it through.

P.S. If I just lower my expectations of Him and myself, I feel like I am betraying myself and God. I worry that if I do that, yes, I might end up in Hell.

Eastern religions says that if we do bad things, we get bad karma... that's their version of hell. I think that's all hell is. Here on earth, this life you're living. There's no way I can imagine an "eternal" hell somewhere in a burning pit. "Eternal" is doesn't mean eternal... it means that when we suffer, time goes slower, and may even seem as eternal.

 

[water]

Cottontop3000,

You're so right. You've put into a short sentence (at least some of us are brief and concise ), what I think I've known for a long time, but have refused to accept because I've always expected so much more out of life, myself and God.

How is that ... brevity is the mother of wisdom?

I think it should work without those meds. Meds are making you into something you really aren't, and they may even alter personality in the long run.

Most of my family, I think, feels the same way. They feel that God can fix everything if I will just let Him.

But I do not believe that you should just "leave it all up to God", I'm not saying that. It takes a lot of discipline to really leave things up to God! Many times, when people "leave it all up to God", they are just escaping to do something. Escape or neglect is not the same as leaving it all up to God.

I think you are reading my mind. Like I said before, I think you are one of the smartest, and maybe most centered people, I've ever known. In my opinion ya'll. At least, your words ring very true to me.

I am glad I am known this way!

I think the above is why I, maybe irrationaly, blame God so much for everything. I've always had extremely high expectations of myself, God and everyone around me. I know I am a perfectionist. It has it's good side, in some circumstances, but I also know it has a very bad side. The side that almost forces me to expect way too much from myself, others and God. I'm going to try to change that.

Perfectionism is quite a curse, quite a curse. It is when one thinks that something is not worth doing if one can't do it perfectly. This is paralyzing.

Yes, I've learned over the last 5 years, I think, that in order for me to find myself, even in a tiny way, I had to give up almost everything. Live a very spartan life, alone, without influence of family or friends for the most part. I don't know if this is the only way, or the best way, for you, but for me it was imperative that I not hurt anyone else again in my life, and the only way I thought I could do that, was to keep them away. So that the opportunity did not even arise. In this time of loneliness, pain, and introspection, I have succeeded for the most part in not hurting anyone but myself. It has not been great for me, but it is getting better, and I think that in this process, I have found a part of the real me. Slowly but surely.

I think this is good.

Fine. I don't know either. But I think it is a good question, one that has raised a lot of the doubts I have had in my mind about whether God really exists. I don't know why, for sure, that I have such a need to know if God exists, but up until now I have had this strong need to know. Maybe I've already answered my own question though. I am a person who expects too much. I think that I have learned recently, and it has become easier to accept, that I can't really find that answer in this life, for me anyway. Maybe someday I will come to believe that it is okay not to know. I think that will make life easier for me, but at the same time, I think I will always want to know if I'm right or not. (The perfectionist in me, again.)

If you have strong perfectionistic tendencies now, this doesn't mean it will always be so. Of course, presently, anything less than perfectionism seems inacepptable or a grave downscaling.

As for always wanting to know whether you are right or not: I think this is good so. You don't want to become all lax and lazy, do you? Once you see the desire of wanting to know whether you are right or not as being a matter of being alert and focused (instead of thinking it is perfectionism), it all makes more sense.

Personally, I'm not interested in what happens after death.

I've said that too, but it's hard to make myself truly believe myself when I do.

I think I've got easy talking here because I've entered Christianity in a completely different manner than you. I haven't been conditioned into thinking about God in terms of heaven or hell. I think about God in terms of the here and now, and this pulls along many practical consequences.

No, I think that God should have forgiven Adam and Eve right then, and not thrown them to the wolves of this world in such a harsh and seemingly unforgiving manner.

See, I don't think it was harsh that God cast them out of Paradise. This is not to say I think "That's right, they should get all the worst, they've earned, rotten bastards!"
Some Christians tend to paint this life as horrid, the valley of tears (this mainly due to the belief that life must be 24/7 bliss or it's not worth living). But inspite everything that has happened in my life so far, I just don't think it is a valley of tears. I would do my life great injustice if I would be all gloomy about it and say it is nothing more than suffering. Life is sometimes good, sometimes bad, and such is life. I don't think there is anything wrong with thinking that way.

We sometimes give someone a second chance, or a third even, before we inflict a harsh punishment. Why couldn't God? (this leads to so many questions for me, but I will refrain for now.) I don't know.

I believe that the expulsion from Paradise is not even nearly as bad as people make it out to be. It would be horrid if God were merciless and wicked, then it surely would be horrid -- one day, you have God's love, and another day, you're the target of His wrath. But I don't believe God is that way. And if He should be, then the worse for Him.

P.S. If I just lower my expectations of Him and myself, I feel like I am betraying myself and God. I worry that if I do that, yes, I might end up in Hell. If I'm not strong enough to meet my expectations of myself, based on what I perceive as God's expectations of me, then I am a failure and will possibly go to Hell.

Rom. 14:22: Blessed is he who doesn't condemn himself for what he decided.


* * *


Crunchy Cat,

Maybe it was learned to suspend judgment earlier on which could explain
why it works and expectations are challenging. Practice may be the best
option.

Yes, definitely.

You know an online name is good if it makes you
hungry.

Hah! Does mine make anyone thirsty?

 

[Cottontop3000]

I heard you saw the movie 'The Cube'. This cube "symbolises" ourselves, the people are trapped inside themselves, in their mind, trying to find a way out and what it's all about. They don't know how they got there, and similarly, ordinary humans don't how it's possible that they exist. The traps in the movie also makes sense, because there are lots of traps in our mind. We often do wrong things, and we have to... so that we learn what is right.

I like your interpretation. I never thought that, mainly because I try not to think most of the time. It is painful, thinking, when you can't find answers to your questions. But I can see what you mean about the Cube. Makes perfect sense. I guess by "lots of traps in our mind." you also mean lots of traps in the world, because the world is in our minds?

For me it was the opposite. I never stopped believing in God because I suffered, my belief got stronger!...

Can you tell me more about this?

I see God as a kind of higher self. If you've read psychology, you know. Conscience is the voice of God.

I have have thought that too at times, though I have kind of forgotten it.

How do you perceive god then?

Well, I perceive Him as a benevolent, yet stern, white-bearded, robe-wearing human-figured man I guess. Someone Who will teach you and forgive your shortcomings, but only if you believe in Him. Pretty simple really. So why do I hate Him? One, I've grown to hate corrupt authority figures here on Earth. So, maybe irrationally I'm thinking, I have kind of come to associate God with them. Two, I feel betrayed, again irrationally I'm thinking. Pain, again I'm thinking, tends to make one irrational. Overcoming the new conditioning that I have imposed on myself, as a result of this "pain," chiefly that God is not all Good and Wise and Loving, and that He is Corrupt, is something I think I need to try to do. So am I going to go back to the Christianity of my youth? No, I don't think so. I think I will have to make a new path for myself that maybe combines a little bit from what everyone is saying in this thread, and others. If I don't, hate is going to eat me alive. It may already be too late for me, but I hope not.

I think all you have to do is stay alive and live through your life as it is. People evolve as time goes. By suffering. The only way to escape the endless cycle of life is to live it through.

I hope so, and I think I agree with you.

Eastern religions says that if we do bad things, we get bad karma... that's their version of hell. I think that's all hell is. Here on earth, this life you're living. There's no way I can imagine an "eternal" hell somewhere in a burning pit. "Eternal" is doesn't mean eternal... it means that when we suffer, time goes slower, and may even seem as eternal.

I definitely agree with this, Yorda. Thanks for helping. I also like the idea of reincarnation. Maybe in my next life I will feel safe enough to have kids.

 

[Cottontop3000]

Cottontop3000,

How is that ... brevity is the mother of wisdom?

Could be. If so, what is the father of wisdom?

But I do not believe that you should just "leave it all up to God", I'm not saying that. It takes a lot of discipline to really leave things up to God! Many times, when people "leave it all up to God", they are just escaping to do something. Escape or neglect is not the same as leaving it all up to God.

Yes. You're right. I knew that once too. Easy to forget things when you want to.

Perfectionism is quite a curse, quite a curse. It is when one thinks that something is not worth doing if one can't do it perfectly. This is paralyzing.

Exactly.

If you have strong perfectionistic tendencies now, this doesn't mean it will always be so. Of course, presently, anything less than perfectionism seems inacepptable or a grave downscaling.

Yes, but it is still very hard for me to change the way I think. It takes a lot of effort, like you said earlier, and I will not always succeed, I think.

As for always wanting to know whether you are right or not: I think this is good so. You don't want to become all lax and lazy, do you? Once you see the desire of wanting to know whether you are right or not as being a matter of being alert and focused (instead of thinking it is perfectionism), it all makes more sense.

I do want to become all lax and lazy. But I've found it's not as much fun as you might think. It's a self-imposed sentence to a maximum security prison cell.

I think I've got easy talking here because I've entered Christianity in a completely different manner than you. I haven't been conditioned into thinking about God in terms of heaven or hell. I think about God in terms of the here and now, and this pulls along many practical consequences.

Yes it does. Like not worrying so much about not having all the specific, concrete answers that you want. Like accepting yourself, failures and all, and not worrying about not being perfect, like you may think God is. See, somewhere in my upbringing, I got it into my mind that I should try to be as close to Jesus as possible. To me, this meant being like Jesus, and I think this is taught in the Bible. However, somewhere along the line, maybe as a result of seeing my Mother and Father pretend to be perfect at church and pretend to be perfect while around like-thinking family and friends, while I knew they weren't because I saw them yell and fight at home, I came to believe that I could be more like Christ. Could almost become perfect. I didn't think I could be perfect, but almost. Thus, I set myself up for failure without really realizing it, and when I started to fail, or to not meet my own expectations of myself, then I began to get disillusioned and angry and depressed. Started blaming family and God and other people. Then realized it wasn't their fault, but mine. Not because I was a failure, but because I had set my expectations so high, that I could never possibly achieve them. I mean, how can anyone be perfect? You can't, at least not in the sense that I think of perfect. It's impossible. So, now, I have to change my thinking.

 

[water]

Cottontop3000,

Well, I perceive Him as a benevolent, yet stern, white-bearded, robe-wearing human-figured man I guess. Someone Who will teach you and forgive your shortcomings, but only if you believe in Him. Pretty simple really. So why do I hate Him? One, I've grown to hate corrupt authority figures here on Earth. So, maybe irrationally I'm thinking, I have kind of come to associate God with them.

What you have come to hate is authority per se, because the worldly authorities you've seen were corrupted.
The belief that authority is not just and cannot be trusted was then transferred to God (who also holds authority, and is supposed to be just and trustworthy).

You doubt God's authority because you doubt authority in general. And you doubt authority in general as experience in this world has proven more than enough times that those holding authority are not just and cannot be trusted.


Just to make sure I'm being clear, I'll add another example of such transfer: A woman is cheated in marriage and gets divorced. Based on her particular experience of marriage, she infers that this is what marriage essentially is: cheating. And she hates marriage and married people as she believes other marriages are just as full of cheating as hers.

Two, I feel betrayed, again irrationally I'm thinking. Pain, again I'm thinking, tends to make one irrational. Overcoming the new conditioning that I have imposed on myself, as a result of this "pain," chiefly that God is not all Good and Wise and Loving, and that He is Corrupt, is something I think I need to try to do. So am I going to go back to the Christianity of my youth? No, I don't think so. I think I will have to make a new path for myself that maybe combines a little bit from what everyone is saying in this thread, and others. If I don't, hate is going to eat me alive. It may already be too late for me, but I hope not.

As long as you are talking here, it's not too late.

And most of all, hate things, but hate them for a good reason. I used to hate God too, but then figured that my reasons for that were really lame, and that I am stupid to indulge in that hate for those reasons.

How is that ... brevity is the mother of wisdom?

Could be. If so, what is the father of wisdom?

Wisdom is a fatherless child. It grows in deprivation and challenge.

Yes. You're right. I knew that once too. Easy to forget things when you want to.

One more reason to keep them in mind.

Yes, but it is still very hard for me to change the way I think. It takes a lot of effort, like you said earlier, and I will not always succeed, I think.

That's okay. You're not striving to be perfect, remember?

I do want to become all lax and lazy. But I've found it's not as much fun as you might think. It's a self-imposed sentence to a maximum security prison cell.

Oh yes. Humans just aren't made to be lax and lazy.

Yes it does. Like not worrying so much about not having all the specific, concrete answers that you want. Like accepting yourself, failures and all, and not worrying about not being perfect, like you may think God is. See, somewhere in my upbringing, I got it into my mind that I should try to be as close to Jesus as possible. To me, this meant being like Jesus, and I think this is taught in the Bible.

One should be Jesus-like, but this is a very lofty and dangerous thing to say.
You just cannot be like Jesus, Jesus had godly powers, and you don't. Jesus spoke great wisdom and performed miracles and was able to prophesize, you can't. Jesus died on the cross to atone for mankind's sins -- this isn't something you could do.

More practical even, when you were young, how could you possibly identify with Jesus? Jesus is known from the Bible only as a babe, and then later, as a man in his early thirties. Point is, Jesus was not a peer, someone who you could actually identify with. Trying to identify with someone who is older than you is always hard and frustrating.

The way I see it, it is only meaningful to say one should be Jesus-like when this means 'to follow his teachings'.

Following his teachings is something VERY different than identifying yourself with Jesus (the person)!

However, somewhere along the line, maybe as a result of seeing my Mother and Father pretend to be perfect at church and pretend to be perfect while around like-thinking family and friends, while I knew they weren't because I saw them yell and fight at home, I came to believe that I could be more like Christ. Could almost become perfect. I didn't think I could be perfect, but almost.

I think that it is common that children in dysfunctional and immoral families develop a high moral awareness. But as this awareness clashes with the brute reality of their everday lives, they are not likely to live those high morals. (And then the guilt comes, and more hate, anger.)

Thus, I set myself up for failure without really realizing it, and when I started to fail, or to not meet my own expectations of myself, then I began to get disillusioned and angry and depressed.

Started blaming family and God and other people. Then realized it wasn't their fault, but mine. Not because I was a failure, but because I had set my expectations so high, that I could never possibly achieve them.

That's true, but I wouldn't say you are to blame for setting yourself up failure. Also, the expectations you had of yourself existed in a particular tension with your reality, in response to it, so I again wouldn't say you are responsible for developing them.
In other words, it is not your fault that you failed. It is, however, your responsibility to make amends -- it is your responsibility inasmuch as it is *your* life that is at the stake. We're not trying to appease some universal justice.

 

[Yorda]

I like your interpretation. I never thought that, mainly because I try not to think most of the time. It is painful, thinking, when you can't find answers to your questions. But I can see what you mean about the Cube. Makes perfect sense.

Yeah, thinking is painful, I never think. Or, if I do, at least I don't think that I think. By thinking, we limit ourselves. If our mind is empty, it can be filled with wisdom.

I have answers to all questions. There is not the slightest doubt about it. IT IS OUT OF THE QUESTION! be you..

I guess by "lots of traps in our mind." you also mean lots of traps in the world, because the world is in our minds?

Yeah... nothing is physical. For example, scientists believe that time exists by itself, external from us, as a part of the physical universe. No rational human could honestly say that, could they? Time is a sensation in our mind, and so is matter.

Can you tell me more about this?

When I suffer, I become a better person. It's natural. You're good person because you've suffered. If you become evil again... you will suffer... one day you'll be CHRIST.

Well, I perceive Him as a benevolent, yet stern, white-bearded, robe-wearing human-figured man I guess.

Oh my F@cking God. The creator of the universe... a human... a man? I could "never" think that. I use logic. Sometimes!

I think I will have to make a new path for myself that maybe combines a little bit from what everyone is saying in this thread, and others. If I don't, hate is going to eat me alive.

be you.

I never have a path. That would be to limit myself. I use no way as the way. When I'm sad, I'm happy. When I'm happy, I'm sad. When there are people around me, I'm alone. When I'm alone, there are people around me.

Nothing.

Nothing is absolute!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it has nothing to do with anything.

I definitely agree with this, Yorda. Thanks for helping. I also like the idea of reincarnation. Maybe in my next life I will feel safe enough to have kids.

I don't believe in reincarnation because I like it. It's just rational!

Jesus died on the cross to atone for mankind's sins -- this isn't something you could do.

WHY NOT?

Trying to identify with someone who is older than you is always hard and frustrating.

I've never been young! Neither was jesus, neither was he old, neither was he anything people imagine, neither was he this or that. I would never identify myself as anyone. Iwouldneverdoanything. Nothing.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cmon the ice r 2 hi!

It's impossible. fireairwaterearth. perfect.

water.... it was really nice... when we were in gods garden... later... we'll be there again... working... eating from the lifetree... again... what kind of person are you... you're a really nice person, really... the mask... off...

if... maybe we could go again sometimes..... to the lake.... touch the water... cool! i really liked it... the way you were.... the same... are you... again....

btw... you really believe in the flood do you????... !!!!!. you know... it's real... 5000 years ago... sahara... always... i keep saying this...

because......

really... it doesn't matter so much.... anyway... maybe you don't remember the giants... they were really nice... to all people... we... we're like that... they... will be born again... of course. they have to!!!... so be happy. they were always happy.

be you.
bu!
b
u

me me me

I will never exist anymore. EVER. just illusion...

I DONT WANT TO HEAR IT!!!!!!!!.... (IRONIC) THE WORD.

no.

nowayastheway

They're all so stupid anyway. There's no way in hell they could do things like that... not even today... but we know... the giants... i always know..... even before... you see.... like 20000 years ago or so... they're all so stupid... they could never understand... the worries are gone.

 

[Cottontop3000]

Yorda, my God woman,

what? I say again, what?

Can you repeat that, I don't think I got it the first time, though it sure was fun trying to make sense of it.

What were the Giants like? I remember that they were created before man, and God didn't think they were what He wanted so he wiped them from the Earth and started over with Man? I'd like to hear more about them though, and it would be awesome if you were a fantastic creature that could tell me all I want to know.

Anyway, if you can, tell me my favorite color......

 

[Yorda]

Cottontop3000,

Yorda, my God woman,

god is not a woman.

what? I say again, what?

i'm just being.. me.

What were the Giants like?

nice.

I remember that they were created before man, and God didn't think they were what He wanted so he wiped them from the Earth and started over with Man?

the giants chose not to be born again (reproduce) on earth because they became the perfect.

the giants are called the sons of god, anak (it means long neck) and nephilim (it means giant). the giants were like humans but they had greater size than us, both physically and mentally. they had children with primitive humans (probably neanderthals) who also lived at that time, this is how our human race was born.

without their gift (or god's gift), we'd still be in the woods.

the children (we) of the anak (the giants) were called anakim. some of us inherited the wisdom from our father's side (giant) and some of us inherited it from our mother's side (the primitive human). this is why some of the giants' children were "stupid" and egoistic... remember goliat. david didn't inherit the size from the giants, only their mind, and by it, he defeated the feared tyrant. there were also one eyed giants. naturally, mutations occured. now... there were those children who inherited both the mind of the giants and the mind from the primitive human... these humans used their "magical" abilities egoistically... it was sometimes called black magic. humans lived at the place where sahara desert is now.

today, true prophets are very rare. they were rare even 5000 years ago. because the giants left the earth very long ago, and their legacy has now been passed on... and our race has reached balance... see... there are almost no humans with giant size or with giant knowledge.

at that time, 5000 years ago, the giants were already extinct... they chose it. they just wanted to pass on their wisdom (and genes) to humans before they left the earth. but since they did this, they will also have to return to earth, according to natural laws... always to teach us humans... to greater knowledge and culture... but they return in human form of course. jesus and moses were one of them. many of the great people will not inherit all their knowledge. great scientists like newton. socrates. hermes. they only have a fraction of the knowledge of the sons of god.

you know the great cultures of the earth like sumerians... they were great because the sons of god teached them.

the sons of god knew everything. they knew everything that is happening now, and they knew the past.

if you want to make it easy, you can just say: god got angry at humans so he exterminated them. that's very simple, but yet true. in reality... humans caused the flood. one of the anakim (humans) accidentally terminated the whole place where the sahara desert is now. it formed into radiation and ascended to the outer atmosphere and reformed into all kinds of basic forms of matter, mostly water.

no.... i'm not saying the sons of god had some super advanced technology and the humans found an atomic bomb and blew the place up. it wasn't like that. the giants were infinitely times more advanced than the humans today, they didn't need to spend so much time on technology. they lived according to the laws of god (nature) unlike us. but they knew how we were going to be, "we cannot compare humans to us... time exists only in the mind... yet everything has to have time to ripen...

the staff of moses... is like the ark of the covenant in miniature.

indeed... i tell you.... for the SONS OF GOD... all laws of the universe were known... they could release their vehicles from the attraction of the earth and control them with their "mind's power". they left us pictures of them... before their homeland was destroyed... they saved some of them. they will be there... even after eight thousand years... when people have already long ago invented way to travel in the sky... but not with their mind... that's why they will not be as trusted as ours.... lions never lie... that's why they don't like humans...

i can't tell you these things in its original form because i don't have access to perfect memory. there is too much to say...

I'd like to hear more about them though, and it would be awesome if you were a fantastic creature that could tell me all I want to know.

i know everytghin about them.

Anyway, if you can, tell me my favorite color......

you know it balkc

 

[water]

*hands Yorda a basket of fresh cherries*

 

[Cottontop3000]

I like you Yorda, and you Water. I like reading what both of you say. Give us more. Give us more! Maybe later, I will give more, though not right this second. My mind is tired. If yours are too, no worries, mates.

Love, Cottontop3000.

P.S. Type in "anak nephilim" in google search. There is a lot to read. I won't ask Yorda to work so hard. Though I do feel that you KNOW!

 

[Jan Ardena]

To take the position of 'God' and become Supreme.

Jan Ardena.

 

[Yorda]

my mom bought me some fresh cherries today. i love them!

 

[Cottontop3000]

Yorda,

they are good!

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Yorda: god is not a woman.
*************
M*W: If "god" is not a "woman," then there is NO "god!"
*************
Yorda: i'm just being.. me.
*************
M*W: No, you're not "just being.. you," you are being a misogynist.
*************
Yorda: the giants chose not to be born again (reproduce) on earth because they became the perfect.
*************
M*W: Please provide reputable confirmation of your statement!
*************
Yorda: the giants are called the sons of god, anak (it means long neck) and nephilim (it means giant). the giants were like humans but they had greater size than us, both physically and mentally. they had children with primitive humans (probably neanderthals) who also lived at that time, this is how our human race was born.
*************
M*W: It's been documented by anthropologists that we did NOT descend from Neanderthals. Curiously, I would like to know where the designation of "long neck" comes from.

Are you trying to say that Neanderthals were inbred with an alien race of people who became us? Please elaborate on this point.
*************
Yorda: without their gift (or god's gift), we'd still be in the woods.
*************
M*W: The Neanderthals died because of the introduction of protein (they became meat eaters) in their diet. That caused the demise of the Neanderthals who started eating meat (protein) in their diets which led to autoimmune disease similiar to AIDS that wiped them out.
*************
Yorda: the children (we) of the anak (the giants) were called anakim. some of us inherited the wisdom from our father's side (giant) and some of us inherited it from our mother's side (the primitive human). this is why some of the giants' children were "stupid" and egoistic... remember goliat. david didn't inherit the size from the giants, only their mind, and by it, he defeated the feared tyrant. there were also one eyed giants. naturally, mutations occured. now... there were those children who inherited both the mind of the giants and the mind from the primitive human... these humans used their "magical" abilities egoistically... it was sometimes called black magic. humans lived at the place where sahara desert is now.
*************
M*W: Now you've made a lot of anthropological statements. Please provide specific proof that what you stated is true!
*************
Yorda: today, true prophets are very rare. they were rare even 5000 years ago. because the giants left the earth very long ago, and their legacy has now been passed on... and our race has reached balance... see... there are almost no humans with giant size or with giant knowledge.
*************
M*W: Come on, Yorda! Please provide references for this! You're going beyond realism here!
*************
Yorda: at that time, 5000 years ago, the giants were already extinct... they chose it. they just wanted to pass on their wisdom (and genes) to humans before they left the earth. but since they did this, they will also have to return to earth, according to natural laws... always to teach us humans... to greater knowledge and culture... but they return in human form of course. jesus and moses were one of them. many of the great people will not inherit all their knowledge. great scientists like newton. socrates. hermes. they only have a fraction of the knowledge of the sons of god.
*************
M*W: Once again, please provide references for your statement!
*************
Yorda: you know the great cultures of the earth like sumerians... they were great because the sons of god teached them.
*************
M*W: Yeah, that's right! The "sons of god 'teached' them
*************
Yorda: the sons of god knew everything. they knew everything that is happening now, and they knew the past.

if you want to make it easy, you can just say: god got angry at humans so he exterminated them. that's very simple, but yet true. in reality... humans caused the flood.
*************
M*W: And which flood would that be?
*************
Yorda: one of the anakim (humans) accidentally terminated the whole place where the sahara desert is now. it formed into radiation and ascended to the outer atmosphere and reformed into all kinds of basic forms of matter, mostly water.
*************
M*W: References?????
*************
Yorda: no.... i'm not saying the sons of god had some super advanced technology and the humans found an atomic bomb and blew the place up. it wasn't like that. the giants were infinitely times more advanced than the humans today, they didn't need to spend so much time on technology. they lived according to the laws of god (nature) unlike us. but they knew how we were going to be, "we cannot compare humans to us... time exists only in the mind... yet everything has to have time to ripen...
*************
M*W: But what ARE you saying?????
*************
Yorda: the staff of moses... is like the ark of the covenant in miniature.
*************
M*W: Egad! You need to explain this!!! Please explain the 'difference' between 'the staff of Moses' and the 'ark of the covenant'!
*************
Yorda: indeed... i tell you.... for the SONS OF GOD... all laws of the universe were known... they could release their vehicles from the attraction of the earth and control them with their "mind's power". they left us pictures of them... before their homeland was destroyed... they saved some of them. they will be there... even after eight thousand years... when people have already long ago invented way to travel in the sky... but not with their mind... that's why they will not be as trusted as ours.... lions never lie... that's why they don't like humans...
*************
M*W: We need some conclusive evidence of this!
*************
Yorda: i can't tell you these things in its original form because i don't have access to perfect memory. there is too much to say... i know everytghin about them. you know it balkc
*************
M*W: So... you know... but the rest of us cannot possibly know???

Please, please, fill us in on what you DO know about 'them.' We are awaiting your testimony!

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Medicine Woman,

I don't think anyone in the thread is interested in truth anymore. I think attractive fantasy has become the discussion. Come and participate.

Hey so some giants screwed some cromags. That's cool. I personally believe Tiamat screwed the pink Unicorns and that's why people get paper cuts.

 

[fadeaway humper]

Real demons going at it:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4107524.stm

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Real demons going at it:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4107524.stm

Trajic story FH,

The poor woman was killed by people so misaligned to reality that they actually had to ask 'what's the big deal?'.