We would never wish anything so horrible on anyone.

[Dywyddyr]

Technically, those are warnings, not necessarily wishes for eternal damnation.

Hmm, okay. I'll grant that possibility.
Although I do recall seeing similar (but definitely less "warning"-like) posters/ placards from the Westboro Baptist Church.
I'm sure they'd claim to be genuine Christians.

 

[wynn]

Actually it is not God who tortures the people. It is themselves. The people who acually end up in hell ae the types that make themselves and everyone around them miserable. There is no place outside of God;s Grace, just people unwilling to accept it.

For a good analogy, Both Heaven and Hell is a massive Banquet but nobpdy can bring the food to their mouth, In hell everyone desperately tries to feed themselves. In heaven everyone feeds each other.

And I raise you with:

Now if anyone is perplexed and does not understand how it is possible for God's love to render anyone pitifully wretched and miserable and even burning as it were in flames, let him consider the elder brother of the prodigal son. Was he not in his father's estate? Did not everything in it belong to him? Did he not have his father's love? Did his father not come himself to entreat and beseech him to come and take part in the joyous banquet? What rendered him miserable and burned him with inner bitterness and hate? Who refused him anything? Why was he not joyous at his brother's return? Why did he not have love either toward his father or toward his brother? Was it not because of his wicked, inner disposition? Did he not remain in hell because of that? And what was this hell? Was it any separate place? Were there any instruments of torture? Did he not continue to live in his father's house? What separated him from all the joyous people in the house if not his own hate and his own bitterness? Did his father, or even his brother, stop loving him? Was it not precisely this very love which hardened his heart more and more? Was it not the joy that made him sad? Was not hatred burning in his heart, hatred for his father and his brother, hatred for the love of his father toward his brother and for the love of his brother toward his father? This is hell: the negation of love; the return of hate for love; bitterness at seeing innocent joy; to be surrounded by love and to have hate in one's heart. This is the eternal condition of all the damned. They are all dearly loved. They are all invited to the joyous banquet. They are all living in God's Kingdom, in the New Earth and the New Heavens. No one expels them. Even if they wanted to go away they could not flee from God's New Creation, nor hide from God's tenderly loving omnipresence. Their only alternative would be, perhaps, to go away from their brothers and search for a bitter isolation from them, but they could never depart from God and His love. And what is more terrible is that in this eternal life, in this New Creation, God is everything to His creatures. As Saint Gregory of Nyssa says, "In the present life the things we have relations with are numerous, for instance: time, air, locality, food and drink, clothing, sunlight, lamplight, and other necessities of life, none of which, many though they be, are God; that blessed state which we hope for is in need of none of these things, but the Divine Being will become all, and in the stead of all to us, distributing Himself proportionately to every need of that existence. It is plain, too, from the Holy Scriptures that God becomes to those who deserve it, locality and home and clothing and food and drink and light and riches and kingdom, and everything that can be thought of and named that goes to make our life happy" (On the Soul and the Resurrection). 46

In the new eternal life, God will be everything to His creatures, not only to the good but also to the wicked, not only to those who love Him, but likewise to those who hate Him. But how will those who hate Him endure to have everything from the hands of Him Whom they detest? Oh, what an eternal torment is this, what an eternal fire, what a gnashing of teeth!

http://www.orthodoxpress.org/parish/river_of_fire.htm

 

[Rav]

The people who acually end up in hell ae the types that make themselves and everyone around them miserable.

Cool, I don't have anything to worry about then, since I know for a fact that I make an overall positive contribution to the lives of pretty much everyone around me, in one way or another. Pretty much all of my friends and relatives should be fine too.

Problem is that what you're saying is in direct conflict with the assertions of many other theists.

 

[wynn]

You know, I'm looking in the dictionary, and I'm finding absolutely nothing about not wishing harm on others. I'm seeing "one who follows the teachings of Jesus", but didn't Jesus teach that he came to set father against son, mother against daughter, brother against brother? Didn't the doctrine of hell originate with Jesus in the first place? I'm pretty sure that's covered under "wishing harm on others".

As far as I know, the Christian definitions of "Christian" do not include "someone who wishes harm upon others."
We can't just make up definitions, or use those that are provided by extraneous sources (such as militant atheists trying to define theists).

That's the thing about the teachings of Jesus, and the bible in general, it can be used to support literally anything(from the Crusades to charity towards the poor).

I agree. I sometimes make this point - how the Bible can be used to support anything and everything.

 

[wynn]

Now, let's sit back and watch the theists dismiss what I will forever maintain has been my genuine honesty as nothing more than the ramblings of someone who is desperately trying to justify their rejection of God.

I concur.

In psychological terms, what some theists are doing is gaslighting. It's a form of abuse.

 

[Arioch]

@Signal --

The definitions in the dictionary, with rare exceptions, aren't just arbitrarily decided. They are decided by popular usage of the word, that's how the definition of the word "fag" evolved from "a bundle of sticks"(or a person who carried the bundle) to "a person who is a burden" to "a homosexual" and finally(thanks to South Park) "a Harley rider". This is why we have dictionaries in the first place, to help standardize the definitions of words to help ensure better communication between individuals. And while many christians do not include "those who wish harm on others" in their definitions, there's nothing in their definitions which precludes them.

Beyond that even, there's the blatant hypocrisy between their beliefs and such definitions. By believing as they do, or even just hoping that they're right, they are at least subconsciously wishing harm on others as that is what their beliefs demand.

 

[wynn]

Beyond that even, there's the blatant hypocrisy between their beliefs and such definitions. By believing as they do, or even just hoping that they're right, they are at least subconsciously wishing harm on others as that is what their beliefs demand.

If they refuse to flat-out declare it, then there is little we can do.

 

[Arioch]

Whether they declare it or not the hypocrisy is there and it is apparent. We might be able to do nothing to change their opinions(not that I ever debate them with the goal of changing their opinions) however it more than shows the internal inconsistency of their beliefs to others.

 

[wynn]

I so far didn't get the impression that theists would care how they are perceived by others.

 

[Arioch]

That is what they like to project yes. But the need to proselytize and even control the morality of others which is common to most theists in this world speaks of an underlying and deep-seated insecurity, both in how they're perceived by others and in their own faith. The entire concept of blasphemy and sacrilege speak to this perfectly.

 

[kx000]

Of course they wouldn't:

Completely a figment of imagination, right?

Of course, that's nothing to do with the bible, is it?
Oh, wait:

As I said, the bible is full of shit. It was written in darkness, meant to mislead. The entire Christian church is corrupt. Wether you want to believe it or not even the high position of pope has been breached.

Follow the words of Christ, but don't follow the interpretations of your pastor. Read Christ's teaching and apply common sense and you will be golden.

Telling someone they will burn in hell does nothing except promote the devil, and strengthen his grip on Earth.

 

[Arioch]

@Knowledge --

Even the mutually incompatible teachings like "love thy mother and father" and "I come to turn father against son, mother against daughter..."?

 

[Dywyddyr]

As I said, the bible is full of shit. It was written in darkness, meant to mislead. The entire Christian church is corrupt. Wether you want to believe it or not even the high position of pope has been breached.

Yup. You keep saying it but you still haven't shown how. Or explained where you get your information.

Follow the words of Christ, but don't follow the interpretations of your pastor. Read Christ's teaching and apply common sense and you will be golden.

You mean Christ's teaching as given in the bible? :shrug: (I don't have a pastor).

PS, you've shown little common sense so far. How do you manage, or is it a case of "do as I say, not as I do"?

 

[kx000]

That is what they like to project yes. But the need to proselytize and even control the morality of others which is common to most theists in this world speaks of an underlying and deep-seated insecurity, both in how they're perceived by others and in their own faith. The entire concept of blasphemy and sacrilege speak to this perfectly.

This is 100% correct. Look into your heart, we are born with the answers. Understand the teachings of Jesus to know were to look. Religion is no savior.

 

[Dywyddyr]

Look into your heart, we are born with the answers.

Nope.

Understand the teachings of Jesus to know were to look.

Why? You just told us they're in our hearts.

 

[Rav]

the bible is full of shit

Follow the words of Christ

 

[kx000]

Yup. You keep saying it but you still haven't shown how. Or explained where you get your information.


You mean Christ's teaching as given in the bible? :shrug: (I don't have a pastor).

PS, you've shown little common sense so far. How do you manage, or is it a case of "do as I say, not as I do"?

No. Jesus teaching was word, the bible is full of stories and man written interpretations of words said by Christ. My information is my own, follow it or not it is up to you. The next time I enter the church it will be to pierce the pope with my blade for his blasphemy, I will see him to hell myself. The protector of child molesters is no disciple of my lord.

 

[kx000]

Jesus does NOT equal the bible.

 

[Arioch]

LOL! This is perfect!

 

[Rav]

No. Jesus teaching was word, the bible is full of stories and man written interpretations of words said by Christ. My information is my own, follow it or not it is up to you. The next time I enter the church it will be to pierce the pope with my blade for his blasphemy, I will see him to hell myself. The protector of child molesters is no disciple of my lord.

You are the perfect deep-cover atheist, even if you're not.