Virgins anyone???

[Dr Lou Natic]

A bell of relavence to the discussion? No, it doesn't.

 

[S.A.M.]

Just checking his attention span

(see post #13)

 

[joepistole]

SAM what is the bottom line with virgins and martyrdom in Islam? Is the cleric/scholar's intrepretation of the Koran deemed to be a true intrepretation? How is it applied to female martyrdom or homosexual martyrs?
I have heard that some very bad individuals choose Islamic martyrdom because it allows them to be very bad on earth (they can do whatever they want, break any and all rules) and they get the extra benefits in heaven when the die. Can you shed some light on this for me? Thanks

 

[joepistole]

SAM, unless I hear otherwise I am going to assume that what I have heard about Islam and virgins is true. As I know you can well express yourself and do it often.

 

[Vega]

Radical Islam seems bent on blaming America for all the ills of the world, which cannot possibly be true, since America is only slightly older than two hundred years..compared to Egypt ( and thus Arabs )being over five thousand years of age. Radical Islam and certain benefactors of such terrible people reside in places such as Germany, where hatred of Jews, though God made the Jews and gave them life as well as all people, helps radical Islam.

Seeing through the history of Islam, the ideological founder's life through the Sirat (Early biography) and the hadith (Traditions of the prophet) as well as how the shar'iah of Islam (Islamic code of the law) is translated today in countries such as the Islamic Republic of Iran, it is a very patriarchal religion. Men are supposedly allowed to have a harem of four women tops, while women are not subject to the same rule.

The muslim women better start wish their vision of heaven at least has an abundance of battery operated toys, or their husbands will prolly just neglect them for the 72 virgins.

 

[S.A.M.]

SAM what is the bottom line with virgins and martyrdom in Islam? Is the cleric/scholar's intrepretation of the Koran deemed to be a true intrepretation? How is it applied to female martyrdom or homosexual martyrs?
I have heard that some very bad individuals choose Islamic martyrdom because it allows them to be very bad on earth (they can do whatever they want, break any and all rules) and they get the extra benefits in heaven when the die. Can you shed some light on this for me? Thanks

Bottom line:

[20:114] Do not be in haste with the Qur'an before its revelation to you is completed, but say, "O my Sustainer! Increase my knowledge."

[99:7-8] "Whoever does an atom weight of good will see it, and whoever does an atom weight of evil will see it."

 

[joepistole]

So the 9/11 criminals who came to this country, drank booze, and went to strip clubs before crashing planes into buildings are going to pay for those offenses or are they going to get virgins?

 

[machaon]

The Islamic Paradise or Jannat which was invented by Mohammed to bribe the Arabs into committing hedious crimes by promising them materialistic things which they couldn't obtain in the harsh desert. The paradise contains six important items: beautiful virgins, young boys, water, wine, fruits and wealth.

All I needed was a good reason to convert. Do you know where I can buy a fully automatic assault rifle? (just in case I end up in the christians version of heaven)

 

[S.A.M.]

So the 9/11 criminals who came to this country, drank booze, and went to strip clubs before crashing planes into buildings are going to pay for those offenses or are they going to get virgins?

What virgins?

 

[Jozen-Bo]

Vega,
you have made your point wonderfully!!!
I totally understand the unfairness you speak of.
Every religion talks about the man getting alotta vagina...and the women is usually denied alotta dick.

(Every magor religion talks of pologamy for the guy...? Buddhism writes of lands where a hundred million billion countless number women all devote themselves to one single guy...I must admit I would like to be that guy!!!!)

How can I refuse a women's wild fantasy about getting banged hard by a bunch of men when I myself have the fantasy of getting banged really hard by a billion million women?
I hope everyone gets what they want!!!

If you are a women and have sexual fantasys...whatever they are I hope they get fullfilled! EQUALITY OF THE SEXES!!!!

 

[joepistole]

I think you are evading the question SAM.

 

[Arsalan]

The Islamic Paradise or Jannat which was invented by Mohammed to bribe the Arabs into committing hedious crimes by promising them materialistic things which they couldn't obtain in the harsh desert.

Dont state your opinion as fact.

Mohammed knew that sex would sell very well among the group of his lecherous followers who were motivated to fight battles by the promise of sex slaves and booty. By constantly emphasizing to his followers that they would get untouched virgins in Paradise, Mohammed is clearly expressing his "high" opinion of the institution of marriage and his fairness to women. Once the followers go to heaven, they can conveniently ditch their wives for the fresher and more pleasurable sexual encounters with 'Houris' (beautiful virgins). Not only that, the poor wives who gave up their virginity for the pleasure of their husbands do not get even one Male Sex Bomb. But wait, Allah is all merciful! He gives the wives the rare honour of watching their husbands deflower those 72 Houris (virgins) and 28 young pre-pubescent boys.

I know you probably have a sick mind but please keep your distasteful fantasies about orgies in the afterlife to yourself. Now let’s look at the verses you provide to support this opinion you concocted in your sick little mind:

Koran 78:31
As for the righteous, they shall surely triumph. Theirs shall be gardens and vineyards, and high- bosomed virgins for companions: a truly overflowing cup.

This is not just 1 verse but a couple of verses:

Verily, for the righteous is a triumph.
Walled gardens and grapevines.
And young maidens of equal age.(7:32-34)

These verses say that those who are righteous will have wives or companions possessing freshness and vigour of youth and enjoying eminent positions, being of noble descent, and fired with high and noble ambitions as we can see from the Arabic lexicon used here and in verse 56:35.

Koran 37:40-48
...They will sit with bashful, dark-eyed virgins, as chaste as the sheltered eggs of ostriches.

Let’s look at the verses:

These will have a known provision:
Fruits; and they shall be honoured,
In the Gardens of Bliss,
Seated on thrones, facing one another.
They will be served round with a cup from a flowing fountain,
Sparkling white, delicious to the drinkers,
Wherein there will be no intoxication, nor will they be exhausted thereby.
And with them will be chaste women, with restrained looks and large beautiful eyes.
As though they were sheltered eggs.

I’m interested as to your definition of chaste. In your sick concocted fantasy about the afterlife, you say that everyone will be having sex and then try to attribute that to the Quran. Yet the Quran mentions chaste women. In my definition of chaste women, orgies is not the first thing that comes to mind.

Anyway, the word used here for women having large beautiful eyes has numerous meanings which include a good or beautiful word or saying. But the fact of the matter is that all these things mentioned in these verses were endowed to the Muslims right here on Earth. They had gardens of bliss. They sat on thrones. They had the most beautiful chaste women as wives. This verse is about the reward for Muslims. Whether on Earth or in the afterlife is up to you. But it definitely doesn’t support your sick concoction.

Koran 44:51-55
...Yes and We shall wed them to dark-eyed houris. (beautiful virgins)

The verses are as follows:

Verily, the righteous will be in a place of security.
Amid gardens and springs,
Attired in fine silk ad heavy brocade, facing one another.
Thus will it be. And We shall give them as companions fair maidens, having wide, black eyes.

Once again, the verse mentions companions. I don’t see anything about sex or orgies with loads of women. Maybe you do? If so please point it out for me.

Koran 52:17-20
...They shall recline on couches ranged in rows. To dark-eyed houris (virgins) we shall wed them...

The verses are as follows:

Verily, the righteous will surely be in Gardens and in Bliss.
Enjoying what their Lord has bestowed on them; and their Lord will save them from the torment of the Fire.
And will say to them, ‘Eat and drink in happiness because of what you used to do.
‘Reclining on couches arranged in rows’. And we shall consort them with fair maidens having wide, beautiful eyes
And those who believe and whose children follow them in faith—With them shall We join their children. And We will not diminish anything from the reward of their works. Every man stands pledged for what he has earned.
And We shall bestow upon them every kind of fruit and meat such as they will wish for.
There they will pass from one to another a cup wherein is neither levity nor sin

In short these and other verses describe the rewards of Heaven.

On further examination of these verses we find that that life after death in Islam is only an image and manifestation of the present life and the rewards and punishments of the next would be only embodiments and images of the actions done in this life. Heaven and Hell are not new material worlds which come from outside. It is true that they shall be visible and palpable, call them material, if you please, but they are only embodiments of the spiritual facts of this life. The spiritual torture of this world has been represented in the Quran as a physical punishment in the next. The chains to be put around the necks of disbelievers, for instance, represent the desires of this world which keep a man’s head bent upon the earth, and it is these desires that shall assume the shape of chains. Similarly, the entanglements of this world shall be seen as on the feet in the next. The heat-burning of this world shall likewise be clearly seen as flames of burning fire etc. Thus, according to the teachings of the Quran, there will be gardens, streams, milk, honey, flesh of birds, wine, fruits, thrones, companions and many other things in Paradise, but they will not be the things of this world but the embodiments of spiritual facts of the life of this world.

Furthermore, upon further examination of the verses relating to the afterlife in the Quran, we find that there will be no sin, levity or vain talk in Paradise, no pleasures of the flesh as we understand them, but all-pervading peace and pleasure of God as we see from the verses in Chapter 56. In view of this Quranic conception of Paradise, it is the height of ignorance or, in your case, simply blind prejudice, to suggest that the Quran promises a sensuous Paradise to its followers.

Moreover, looking at the various meanings of some of the words, the verse may mean that in Paradise the righteous servants of God will be made to live with pure and clean companions whose faces will be shining with radiant spiritual beauty, or they will have as companions fair maidens i.e. their wives. That is supported by the verse which says that the children of the believers will be reunited with them. All in all, families will be reunited in Paradise. The beautiful companions are the wives in this world and they and the children and the men will all be reunited.

The thing is that you don’t see people as God does, you don’t see that beauty in people. You think that when the Quran mentions beautiful maidens, it automatically means someone other than the wife, which is your fault, not the Qurans.

Koran 55:56-57
In them will be bashful virgins neither man nor Jinn will have touched before. Then which of the favours of your Lord will you deny ?"

Now let’s look at these verses:

Therein will also be chaste maidens of modest gaze, whom neither man nor Jinn will have touched before them

In the foregoing verses mention was made of gardens, couches, fruits etc. that believers will get. In order to complete their peace and happiness, they will also enjoy the company of good companions. And there can be no better companion for a person than a virtous wife and since all women are beautiful, so are they presented in the Quran. Those wives are meant in these verses when mention is made of “companions”. The words used here also signify that impure things which excite carnal passions in the mind will not enter their thoughts, they will all be pure.

Koran 55:57-58
Virgins as fair as corals and rubies. Then which of the favours of your Lord will you deny ?"

Let’s look at the verses:

As if they were rubies and small pearls

Whereas in previous verses the purity of the mind of these wives is mentioned, here there physical beauty is mentioned. Strange, isn’t it, that nowhere sex is mentioned?

Koran 56:7-40
...We created the houris (the beautiful women) and made them virgins, loving companions for those on the right hand.. "

Let’s look at the verses:

And they will have noble spouses—Verily, we have created them a good creation,
And made them virgins,
Loving, of equal age

Now, you take this verse to mean that there will be loads of women for a man and there will be orgies in abundance. Yet the words used here say noble spouses. So in light of these and more Quranic verses I take it to mean that in order to complete their happiness and peace of mind, the believers will have for their companions pure, beautiful spouses of noble descet and high dignity.
Btw, the word used here for virgins specifically implies men who have not touched a woman. Therefore the noble spouses mentioned here are the male companions women will get. Of course, you didn’t know that but don’t let that stop you from spreading your ignorance!

Oh wait it gets better....

In the Hadiths, Mohammed goes one step further and expands the promise of virgins to include a free sex market where there is no limit of the number of sexual partners. Women and young boys are on display as if in a fruit market where you can choose the desired ripeness.

Quote from Hadiths

Al Hadis, Vol. 4, p. 172, No. 34
Ali reported that the Apostle of Allah said, "There is in Paradise a market wherein there will be no buying or selling, but will consist of men and women. When a man desires a beauty, he will have intercourse with them."

Can you please give me the link to the site you got this from? I want to check out this source for myself before I comment on it.

So after committing plunder, loot, rape and murder in this life,

And where exactly are they allowed to do that?

the followers of Islam get "rewarded" by untouched virginal youths who are fresh like pearls.

Dont disguise your homophobic intentions under disgust for ALLEGED homosexuality mentioned in the Quran. But let me just clarify these verses for you as well seeing as your ignorance will prevent you from seeking the truth yourself.

The relevant verses from the Koran are:
Koran 52:24
Round about them will serve, to them, boys (handsome) as pearls well-guarded.

Let’s look at the verses:

And We shall bestow upon them every kind of fruit and meat such as they will wish for.
There they will pass from one to another cup wherein is neither levity nor sin.
And there will wait upon them youths of their own, pure as though they were pearls well preserved.

Youths of their own... Hmm.. Having gay sex with youths of your own... Now there is a pickle! I’m pretty sure you have not read ANYTHING in the Quran except what you find on hate sites because otherwise you would have known that this verse speaks of youths of your own. And who are these youths? The word used for youth here is used in 3:41 – 15:54 – 19:8 – 37:102 – 51:29 and 76:20 meaning and implying “son” which shows that, according to this verse, the youths who will move about in the company of the righteous in Paradise will be their own children, i.e. youths of their own. This, once again, supports what I said earlier about families being reunited i.e. beautiful women (mothers and wives) and children.

Koran 56:17
Round about them will serve boys of perpetual freshness.

Let’s look at the verse:

There will wait on them youths, who will not age

This verse talks about the servants that the righteous will get in Paradise. Nothing about sex here.

Koran 76:19
And round about them will serve boys of perpetual freshness: if thou seest them, thou wouldst think them scattered pearls.

Same here

Vega's promise of an Islamic Paradise that glittered with the fulfillment of all sorts of wordly desires and sense enjoyment was nothing but a sinister ploy to recruit those who had no hope or expectation of ever getting these things in their present lives. Knowing that they are assured of such a Paradise simply because they follow Vega, his followers can go around committing murder, rape plunder and loot. It is the picture of this paradise that has motivated Vega’sa followers over the centuries to cut down people of other religions, to desecrate their places of worship and mistreat them in the name of Allah. Even after death, the spritually deprived Vega could not see beyond wine, women and food, leave alone exploring spiritual heights of the soul.

There, fixed for you. You apparently know nothing about the Quran and or the Prophet or the early Muslims. If you were in the least bit interested about Paradise in Islam you would find that it is a spiritual place, not a sensuous one. It is not the Qurans fault that when you see a beautiful women you instantly think of sex or that if you see a boy you instantly want to grope and whatnot.
One question though, are you a Christian?

I understand why Muhammad (pbuh) would want to appeal to men, especially men of military age since Islam is a militaristic expansionist religion.

It is not, only in the minds of people like you who want to hate it.

But really SAM you Muslim women get the short end of the stick, both now and in the hereafter. Too bad Muhammad (pbuh) wasn't visionary enough to see the utility in suicide bomber women 1400 years later, perhaps you'd have a better deal.

First of all a suicide bomber commits major sins in Islam. Secondly, I have shown that women will also get noble companions and I have shown that families will be reunited.

Since you know more about the "72", just how was that calculated anyway? Is that the number of woman a Muslim man can deflower, even after eternity?

What a sick thought. It is people like you that want Islamic Paradise to be a sexual place filled with your own distasteful, repressed sexual fantasies.

Nevertheless my question still stands. Does it seem godly to you that a god would appeal to the base instincts of Man (vis a vis rampant sex with virgins) as a motivation to be obedient, rather than appealing to the spiritual?

Ha! Nowhere is there any mention of rampant sex in Paradise! Unbelievable! The Quran and the Hadith have over and over told us that it is a spiritual place, not a sensous one.

So you're saying that Tirmidhi was in error? Was he an arabic speaker himself? Why would he make such an error?

Even though people who recorded Hadith spent a lot of time verifying their authenticity it doesn’t mean that they are all authentic. They were recorded hundreds of years after the death of the Prophet hence their reliability is not that great. Thereore the test should be that if a Hadith is in contradiction to the Quran it should be dismissed.
As a note, it is well known that Hadith submitted by well known liars were recorded, even though they are not followed.

*snip*MAJOR BS*snip*

Not once does the Quran mention the place that is depicted in the result of your “investigation” which would be that no verses from the Quran were used. Odd eh?

Tirmidhi was a well respected scholar and one of the first to collect the Hadiths. Tirmidhi is not referring to the Qur'an, but to specific things Muhammad (pbuh) said.
If you SAM do not follow the teachings in the Hadiths, then you would be a rare Muslim.

Authenticated Hadith, sure. But weak Hadith that clearly go against the Quran are to be dismissed.

Young boys are in paradise as described in the Qur'an, handsome youths of perpetual freshness. I guess they might just be waiters serving drinks.

Good, now youre getting it!

I once read it could be translated as 72 white raisins.
But really it doesn't matter. All monotheistic religions promise something good for obeying God, be it hot sex or nice fruit, whatever it's paradise and some sort of punishment for not obeying God. The thing I find funny, is God, being able to do anything - could (in theory) write a book that was so moving that any and all humans who read it would instantly find it compelling to obey God without the need of a carrot and the stick.

Which he has done. Yet its free will which allows people like you and other haters on here to spread ignorance and hate about Islam. I am pretty sure that none of you have ever read the Quran, just bits and pieces referred to on the hate sites you visit. Which is surprising to me as I would have thought that Atheists want to make the world a better place and spreading hatred and lies about other people does not a better world make.

We don't see Japanese or Chinese studying this awe inspiring words of the Creator of Universe and all that is in it - because when they read these books they simply think that they're funny stories and that's it.

No, they have their own religious books and teachings which they follow. Not that different from any religion tbh.

These books are not treasure tombs overflowing with great pearls of wisdom to anyone other than than the people who are Xian or Muslim.

And yet, they present the moral and ethic code to make this world a better place. Commandments that would make this world a better place. For example, how many of my taxes are wasted each year on criminal damage or unrest resulting from drinking alone?

If this were true, poor disadvantaged people of all faiths all over the world would be blowing themselves up.
But it is NOT true. Muslims of all economic strata blow themselves up as part of Jihad, to die fighting for Allah, which is the ONLY guaranteed way to get to this paradise. A paradise curiously designed to appeal mainly to young men.

Do they fight for Allah or themselves, their country and their brethren? I honestly think none of these people do this for Allah. Just because they are religious means they invoke His help, but that doesn’t mean that they do it for Allah. Its that simple.

I'd say these kids were not mad or insane - but a life long indoctrination process / religious belief had probably thoroughly and completely brainwashed them.

I don’t believe in religious indoctrination. It simply doesn’t work. And don’t bring up Pavlovs dogs please thats such bull to apply that to humans.

Hence the volunteer and a handler. So? How does one get someone to volunteerily blow themselves up?

Pick someone who has had enough of the invading forces and all the chaos that ensued, that has lost everything, tell him he is helping his country and people, give him a bomb and off he goes.

It's quite unfortunate Women under Islam get the short end of the stick...wonder what a female suicide bomber gets in paradise if she blows herself up?

Same thing a male suicide bomber gets: Nothing. They don’t go to Paradise after they blow themselves up and kill innocent people.

So you blame Israel for trying to defend itself against Palestinian attacks. I blame the Palestinians. If they weren't constantly sending suicide bombers into Israel, they wouldn't need the wall.
So long as Palestinians support terrorism, they deserve whatever they get.

Ah yes, blame it on the Palestinians, whose land was taken without even asking them. Who had to flee to other countries and become refugees. Who still wake up every day in fear of an Israeli tank bulldozing down their house. Who are still being killed everyday. And those who stayed, and are now living among Jews, have to fear everyday for their life because of attacks on themselves by young Zionists. Let me tell you, if you were a Palestinian living like that, the first thing you would do after a couple of days is look for an explosive.

I'd fight the invaders. Attack their command and control. Attack their officials. Attack their weapons depots.

The similarities between what you would do and what they are doing are eerie aren’t they?

I sure as hell wouldn't go on a campaign of killing women and children.

HAHA! So that’s why the US proudly announced it had destroyed 300 or was it 3000 villages in 1 day? So that was why in the previous Iraq war the US said if innocent Iraqi children and women died, because they did, it would be ok as long as the job was done.

It's really ignorant for one to pass judgement on a country which one hasn't even visited. I think our resident fundamentalist (S.A.M) should make a trip to Israel sit in a cafe, have a coffee and then come back and make the remarks!

Unless ofcourse you’re a Jews for Jesus member and you happen to run into Rabbi Tovia Singer or if you are the Figeuras family who can’t even go outside safely without fear of being attacked by Jews. Apart from stuff like that, it’s all good. /sarcasm

 

[lucifers angel]

i a not trying to be awkward or anything but......what happens when the women in heaven are not virgins anymore? i ask because i have always wondered.

 

[S.A.M.]

i a not trying to be awkward or anything but......what happens when the women in heaven are not virgins anymore? i ask because i have always wondered.

I'm wondering how many guys would enjoy sleeping only with virgins.

 

[lucifers angel]

I'm wondering how many guys would enjoy sleeping only with virgins.

yeah thats a point,

 

[joepistole]

SAM, what does a good Muslim do with conflicting Fatwas? Which one should they obey? How do they know which Fatwa to follow or should they follow any fatwas?

 

[S.A.M.]

SAM, what does a good Muslim do with conflicting Fatwas? Which one should they obey? How do they know which Fatwa to follow or should they follow any fatwas?

A fatwa is an pronouncement or an opinion on Islamic legal issues.

To be valid, a fatwa has to follow the Usul al-Fiqh (or the Rules of Jurisprudence):

1. The fatwa is in line with relevant legal proofs, deduced from Qur'anic verses and hadiths;
2. It is issued by a person (or a board) having due knowledge and sincerity of heart;
3. It is free from individual opportunism, and not depending on political servitude;
4. It is adequate with the needs of the contemporary world.

Fatwas are nowadays issued by any Tom Dick and Harry, but are not binding unless the civil authority chooses to convert them to law.

e.g. As al-Azhar University is the premier Islamic studies university, any fatwa by them would override fatwas by lesser organisations or scholars (as they are recognised authorities on Islamic jurisprudence or Fiqh).

However the civil authority could still choose a fatwa by a local imam and no one would arrest them. That is a freedom available to them by the flexibility of legal opinion in Islam. Ultimately, it all comes down to the people.

Any Muslim could ignore any fatwa that was inconsistent with his views. Except for peer pressure there is no requirement for them to follow any.

 

[Michael]

once read it could be translated as 72 white raisins.
But really it doesn't matter. All monotheistic religions promise something good for obeying God, be it hot sex or nice fruit, whatever it's paradise and some sort of punishment for not obeying God. The thing I find funny, is God, being able to do anything - could (in theory) write a book that was so moving that any and all humans who read it would instantly find it compelling to obey God without the need of a carrot and the stick.

”
Which he has done. Yet its free will which allows people like you and other haters on here to spread ignorance and hate about Islam. I am pretty sure that none of you have ever read the Quran, just bits and pieces referred to on the hate sites you visit. Which is surprising to me as I would have thought that Atheists want to make the world a better place and spreading hatred and lies about other people does not a better world make.

No he hasn't. If that were the case then the Qur'an would be recognized as the "perfect" book by people all over the world. From Native Americans to Japanese. YET, here in the "real world" - anywhere outside of the "Islamic" world it is not only NOT recognized as perfect it's not even considered a serious peace of literature. Not at all. It's not even taught at University outside of religious studies - which is to say, side-by-side with the Religious books of Scientology.

Lets see Arsalan, Is Plato taught in China? Answer = Yes. How about Sun Tzu? Taught in European Universities? Yes (even in some masters level business courses). How about Socrates (Sokuratetsu)- taught in Japan? Yes. What about Kent? Yes. Now - how about the Qur'an? No.

You remember that Sesame Street song? "Which One of These Is Not Like the Others? Which one of these doesn't, doesn't belong..."


Well that's the FACT of the matter Arsalan. The book has been around for ~1200 years. People have read it in China, in Europe, in Japan, etc... no one found it all that important a peace of literature. No one.

Again Arsalan - that is a fact. ALL these different peoples and cultures and none of them found it worthwhile. BUT they did find ancient Greek worth teaching. You can go to a Japanese University and study Aristotle's work. OOooooo THAT'S RIGHT the Qur;an is soooooo perfect and soooo profound that only people who know Arabic can read it - even though you can not read the original without the diacritic marks BUT that's allll sooooooo sooooo soooooooooooo very different.

Sorry Arsalan, those are the facts here in the real world. The Qur'an is not thought of as perfect by anyone other than Muslims. And big whoopy there - Scientologists think Ron Hubards wittings are perfect. So what?

See the similarity yet?


Hey, you know what Mohammad and Ron Hubbard have in common? Neither one of their books is taught at Universities outside of comparative religion - where they are treated as equal. AND YET, against all logic BOTH Muslims think that Mohammad's wittings are "perfect" and Scientologists think that Ron Hubbard's writtings are "perfect".

Go bloody figure!

Michael

 

[S.A.M.]

Over a billion people read the Quran. Do a billion people read Aristotle? I doubt it.

Oh and guess how Aristotle came to Western Europe and to Thomas Aquinas.

Can you guess?

 

[Arsalan]

Not at all. It's not even taught at University outside of religious studies - which is to say, side-by-side with the Religious books of Scientology.

Holy f*ck*ng sh*t Michael! Are you really this thick? A religious book is not a maths book and it doesnt teach a language. For gods sake if a religious book was not looked at in RELIGIOUS studies where the hell should it be studied then?!! "Yes kids this is our maths lesson, now open ope verse blabla to learn about blabla" Seriously, what is wrong with you? Dont you see that your reasoning behind this whole argument is completely nonsensical?!!

Lets see Arsalan, Is Plato taught in China? Answer = Yes. How about Sun Tzu? Taught in European Universities? Yes (even in some masters level business courses). How about Socrates (Sokuratetsu)- taught in Japan? Yes. What about Kent? Yes. Now - how about the Qur'an? No.

How about the Bible? Or the Thora. Tanach, & Talmud? Ive never seen my Law lecturer teach me something from the Bhagavad-Gita, Upanishads, Rig Veda, The Tripitaka, Sutras, Guru Granth Sahib, Alkitab Alaqdas, Lun Yu, Siddhanta, Pakrit, Avesta, Kojiki, Nohon Shoki or Tao-te-Ching. Or any of my other teaches in the 4 countries ive gonve to school, college and university over 3 continents. Now why would that be? Oh wait! Im a school to study maths, or law or language, not religion

Well that's the FACT of the matter Arsalan. The book has been around for ~1200 years. People have read it in China, in Europe, in Japan, etc... no one found it all that important a peace of literature. No one.

HAHA! oh my God. You are serious?!! No one? Oh i guess the growth of Islam is nothing then. Seriously, you should not spout such ignorant nonsense. I have seen numerous people who said that when they read the Quran, they instantly felt that this was "it" and converted to Islam, from Christians and jws to Atheists even!

Your reasoning skills are frighteningly nonsensical. Religious books and religions are studied in Religious studies and in religious schools. I dont know why you cannot see the [Insult Deleted]of your reasoning