UFOs
- Thread starter Rick
- Start date
I can not prove or disprove anything about UFO's. I am not an expert, just put forward my relatively uneducated view.
I have however watched alot of the videos apparantly showing solid proof of UFO's, and as far as my untrained eye can tell they are all faked. I remember seeing one from New Mexico or something, and you could see the UFO thro the solid wall of a building.
I will never believe in UFO's or aliens etc until someone takes me into space and out of our solar system, but is it not fun discussing it?
Anyone know what sound a tree makes when falling in a forest with no one around to hear it?
I have however watched alot of the videos apparantly showing solid proof of UFO's, and as far as my untrained eye can tell they are all faked. I remember seeing one from New Mexico or something, and you could see the UFO thro the solid wall of a building.
I will never believe in UFO's or aliens etc until someone takes me into space and out of our solar system, but is it not fun discussing it?
Anyone know what sound a tree makes when falling in a forest with no one around to hear it?
(Q),
I see that you have difficulty understanding simple things...
sjmarsha,
I don't remember this one... what is it?
Is it no sound at all...?
Love,
Nelson
I see that you have difficulty understanding simple things...
sjmarsha,
I don't remember this one... what is it?
Is it no sound at all...?
Love,
Nelson
proof?
Do you consider science as proof?
let me tell you : even in science there is no certainty in proof: there is no proof: take for instance quantum-mechanics:
Quantum mechanics describes the bizarre rules of light and matter on atomic scales. In that realm, matter can be in two places at once. Objects can be particles and waves at the same time. And nothing is certain -- only probable or improbable.
So my friends: in this perspective you may reflect to reality as being an uncertain principle,...
and only if you understand to look at the whole pictrure as one: and not as: yes or no:
it should be yes,...and no: so: ufo's reaally DO EXIST and at the same time THEY DON'T EXIST,....
is this easy enough for ya all ? HEHEHE
Do you consider science as proof?
let me tell you : even in science there is no certainty in proof: there is no proof: take for instance quantum-mechanics:
Quantum mechanics describes the bizarre rules of light and matter on atomic scales. In that realm, matter can be in two places at once. Objects can be particles and waves at the same time. And nothing is certain -- only probable or improbable.
So my friends: in this perspective you may reflect to reality as being an uncertain principle,...
and only if you understand to look at the whole pictrure as one: and not as: yes or no:
it should be yes,...and no: so: ufo's reaally DO EXIST and at the same time THEY DON'T EXIST,....
is this easy enough for ya all ? HEHEHE
I dont think Uncertainity principle says that.it just says you cannot calculate or predict the accurate motion charracterstics of a quanta part,since they are too fast.(which is the most ridiculus thing i have ever heard off,and no doubt Einstein never believed in that theory.)...
bye!
bye!
James R,
Not exactly...
Existence can't "exist" without non-existence and non-existence can't "exist" without existance. They are mutually complementary concepts...
Love,
Nelson
Not exactly...
Existence can't "exist" without non-existence and non-existence can't "exist" without existance. They are mutually complementary concepts...
Love,
Nelson
You don't think,....maby that's your problem,...
It has been proven by expirimentation,...that Einstein was wrong about this one and Bohr was right,...it is called the uncertainty principle of heisenberg.
It is not that einstein didn't believe this theory,...(at least he was not the fool dismissing it) it just happens to be that it could not be proven by expiriment back then,....
And you should not attact me with your sceptisism because you should know that it can break and ruin someones carreer with doing so,... (unless that's the whole idear) and here on the forum you attact my credibillity and in the end I die a un-happy man but I'll still be right,...just like bohr,....do you know how that feels? no? then imagine,...if you can,...
Thx
:bugeye:
It's Fu-KU-shi , Xzav,...thank you,...!?!
You see,...that's the problem with you guys and galls: I never stated that they where alien in origin,...I just say that that could be the case,...and that you don't need to dismiss it,...you all try to disscuss my insight on it : you might even redicule me,...just as you do with others : but that won't prove that you are right,...
and it certainly won't erase my personal experiances.
and just as my personal experiances won't prove that I'm right,...rediculing theory's (that have now been proven by conducting exensive laboratory testing) won't prove that I'm wrong either.
because as I have said before Xzav: It just depends from where you are looking,...difraction ect,...It's just on how you look at it: from wich perspective,...I can look and understand your perspectives,...now I wonder why you (and others for that part)can't understand and look at things how I do. It reeeaaaally bugs me and I'm not the only fellow,...
You are merely asking for my explanation of my perspective: so I explain on the perspective that I have: and I do so in a way that it would be understandable by you and others: so I try to explain in a simple way: but that DOESN'T imply that it's all verry simple,...
on the contrary: it's verry complex,...(don't dwell to complicity/simplexity cause that's not what this thread is about)
then again: if you don't understand than that's maby proof that I failed in explaining to you but that doesn't imply that your right and I'm wrong,...or the other way around. you just don't understand then,....that's all it proves,....and that I failed to explain it to you personal,....
Thx
:bugeye:
Last edited:
kmguru
Staff member
For those who are interested....
Heisenberg uncertainity principle - 1927
"The more precisely the position is determined, the less precisely the momentum is known in this instant, and vice versa."
Following Heisenberg's derivation of the uncertainty relations, one starts with an electron moving all by itself through empty space. To describe the electron, a physicist would refer to certain measured properties of the particle. Four of these measured properties are important for the uncertainty principle. They are the position of the electron, its momentum (which is the electron's mass times its velocity), its energy, and the time. These properties appear as "variables" in equations that describe the electron's motion.
The uncertainty relations have to do with the measurement of these four properties; in particular, they have to do with the precision with which these properties can be measured. Up until the advent of quantum mechanics, everyone thought that the precision of any measurement was limited only by the accuracy of the instruments the experimenter used. Heisenberg showed that no matter how accurate the instruments used, quantum mechanics limits the precision when two properties are measured at the same time. These are not just any two properties but two that are represented by variables that have a special relationship in the equations. The technical term is "canonically conjugate" variables. For the moving electron, the canonically conjugate variables are in two pairs: momentum and position are one pair, and energy and time are another. Roughly speaking, the relation between momentum and position is like the relation between energy and time.
The uncertainty relations involve the uncertainties in the measurements of these variables. The "uncertainty" -- sometimes called the "imprecision"--is related to the range of the results of repeated measurements taken for a given variable. For example, suppose you measure the length of a book with a meter stick. It turns out to be 23.6 cm, or 23 centimeters and 6 millimeters. But since the meter stick measures only to a maximum precision of 1 mm, another measurement of the book might yield 23.7cm or 23.5 cm. In fact, if you perform the measurement many times, you will get a "bell curve" of measurements centered on an average value, say 23.6 cm. The spread of the bell curve, or the "standard deviation," will be about 1 mm on each side of the average. This means that the "uncertainty" or the precision of the measurement is plus or minus 1 mm.
In the sharp formulation of the law of causality-- "if we know the present exactly, we can calculate the future"-it is not the conclusion that is wrong but the premise.
Heisenberg took this one step further: he challenged the notion of simple causality in nature, that every determinate cause in nature is followed by the resulting effect. Translated into "classical physics," this had meant that the future motion of a particle could be exactly predicted, or "determined," from a knowledge of its present position and momentum and all of the forces acting upon it. The uncertainty principle denies this, Heisenberg declared, because one cannot know the precise position and momentum of a particle at a given instant, so its future cannot be determined. One cannot calculate the precise future motion of a particle, but only a range of possibilities for the future motion of the particle. (However, the probabilities of each motion, and the distribution of many particles following these motions, could be calculated exactly from Schrödinger's wave equation.)
The equations developed by Heisenberg, Schrödinger and their colleagues give a glimpse into the nature of reality, but that's not all. They are also essential tools of modern work in key areas of practical technology--including the electronics you are using to read this text. Thousands of physicists use the equations of quantum mechanics every day to understand and improve computer components, metals, lasers, the properties of chemicals, and on and on. Many important physical effects, from fluorescent lights to the shape of a snowflake, cannot be understood at all without quantum mechanics.
Even the Uncertainty Principle isn't "merely" philosophy: it predicts real properties of electrons. Electrons jump at random from one energy state to another state which they could never reach except that their energy is momentarily uncertain. This "tunneling" makes possible the nuclear reactions that power the sun and many other processes. Physicists have put some of these processes to practical use in microelectronics. For example, delicate superconducting instruments that use electron tunneling to detect tiny magnetic fields are enormously helpful for safely scanning the human brain.
Heisenberg uncertainity principle - 1927
"The more precisely the position is determined, the less precisely the momentum is known in this instant, and vice versa."
Following Heisenberg's derivation of the uncertainty relations, one starts with an electron moving all by itself through empty space. To describe the electron, a physicist would refer to certain measured properties of the particle. Four of these measured properties are important for the uncertainty principle. They are the position of the electron, its momentum (which is the electron's mass times its velocity), its energy, and the time. These properties appear as "variables" in equations that describe the electron's motion.
The uncertainty relations have to do with the measurement of these four properties; in particular, they have to do with the precision with which these properties can be measured. Up until the advent of quantum mechanics, everyone thought that the precision of any measurement was limited only by the accuracy of the instruments the experimenter used. Heisenberg showed that no matter how accurate the instruments used, quantum mechanics limits the precision when two properties are measured at the same time. These are not just any two properties but two that are represented by variables that have a special relationship in the equations. The technical term is "canonically conjugate" variables. For the moving electron, the canonically conjugate variables are in two pairs: momentum and position are one pair, and energy and time are another. Roughly speaking, the relation between momentum and position is like the relation between energy and time.
The uncertainty relations involve the uncertainties in the measurements of these variables. The "uncertainty" -- sometimes called the "imprecision"--is related to the range of the results of repeated measurements taken for a given variable. For example, suppose you measure the length of a book with a meter stick. It turns out to be 23.6 cm, or 23 centimeters and 6 millimeters. But since the meter stick measures only to a maximum precision of 1 mm, another measurement of the book might yield 23.7cm or 23.5 cm. In fact, if you perform the measurement many times, you will get a "bell curve" of measurements centered on an average value, say 23.6 cm. The spread of the bell curve, or the "standard deviation," will be about 1 mm on each side of the average. This means that the "uncertainty" or the precision of the measurement is plus or minus 1 mm.
In the sharp formulation of the law of causality-- "if we know the present exactly, we can calculate the future"-it is not the conclusion that is wrong but the premise.
Heisenberg took this one step further: he challenged the notion of simple causality in nature, that every determinate cause in nature is followed by the resulting effect. Translated into "classical physics," this had meant that the future motion of a particle could be exactly predicted, or "determined," from a knowledge of its present position and momentum and all of the forces acting upon it. The uncertainty principle denies this, Heisenberg declared, because one cannot know the precise position and momentum of a particle at a given instant, so its future cannot be determined. One cannot calculate the precise future motion of a particle, but only a range of possibilities for the future motion of the particle. (However, the probabilities of each motion, and the distribution of many particles following these motions, could be calculated exactly from Schrödinger's wave equation.)
The equations developed by Heisenberg, Schrödinger and their colleagues give a glimpse into the nature of reality, but that's not all. They are also essential tools of modern work in key areas of practical technology--including the electronics you are using to read this text. Thousands of physicists use the equations of quantum mechanics every day to understand and improve computer components, metals, lasers, the properties of chemicals, and on and on. Many important physical effects, from fluorescent lights to the shape of a snowflake, cannot be understood at all without quantum mechanics.
Even the Uncertainty Principle isn't "merely" philosophy: it predicts real properties of electrons. Electrons jump at random from one energy state to another state which they could never reach except that their energy is momentarily uncertain. This "tunneling" makes possible the nuclear reactions that power the sun and many other processes. Physicists have put some of these processes to practical use in microelectronics. For example, delicate superconducting instruments that use electron tunneling to detect tiny magnetic fields are enormously helpful for safely scanning the human brain.
Xev,
Yes, it does...
Better continue this discussion in my other thread:
"The Mistery of Existence"
Love,
Nelson
Yes, it does...
Better continue this discussion in my other thread:
"The Mistery of Existence"
Love,
Nelson
Nobody is right and nobody is wrong, You cannot proove that UFOs exist or the opposite. We can only be very boring and agree to disagree.
In one shape or form UFOs will definatley exist. Remeber what the 'U' stands for...
unfortunately this is not what we are discussing, we are after Aliens...
In one shape or form UFOs will definatley exist. Remeber what the 'U' stands for...
unfortunately this is not what we are discussing, we are after Aliens...
<i>You cannot proove that UFOs exist or the opposite. We can only be very boring and agree to disagree.</i>
Proof of existence is pretty easy. Just produce convincing evidence - reliable sources, good video footage, preferably a demonstration in front of reliable witnesses. Proving non-existence is much harder.
The onus of proof is traditionally on the person making the claim. Thus it is up to UFO people to prove that aliens exist. It is not up to scientists (for example) to prove that they don't exist.
Proof of existence is pretty easy. Just produce convincing evidence - reliable sources, good video footage, preferably a demonstration in front of reliable witnesses. Proving non-existence is much harder.
The onus of proof is traditionally on the person making the claim. Thus it is up to UFO people to prove that aliens exist. It is not up to scientists (for example) to prove that they don't exist.