Top 10 Misapprehensions about islam...

[Michael]

helloooo! i said, this topic is not about israeil-palastine case, also not about politics, if it is not off-topic you tell me..

Yeah, it always around to the Israel/Palestine thing if you let it go long enough.

What's the fuss? It's just a squabble between Arabs: Arabs who are Jews and Arabs who are Muslims? :shrug:
Meanwhile 3-5 million North Koreans starved to death, 3 million Africans starved to death and the planet added another billion or so mouths to feed... priority people. Priority!

Untrue. its impossible to say that. their are any number of factors that could be the cause and none of them have been isolated.

I think they do. But, I also think Muslims are not much (or any) different than most Christians - except Christians are wealthy and wealth somewhat blunts their aggression. When we go through the next Depression, then we'll see how that equation balances. IOW if you think Americans were the aggressors now... just wait till they can't afford their mocha latte and are hungry and looking for someone to eat...

 

[pjdude1219]

I said nothing about "cause" just correlation.

thats a bald face lie. you said they had a higher propensity for it ie. more likely. as in its fucking causing it.

 

[ElectricFetus]

thats a bald face lie. you said they had a higher propensity for it ie. more likely. as in its fucking causing it.

perhaps there has been a mis-communication, I was not saying the religion its self causes terrorism, I was saying Muslims today have a higher propensity for terrorism, for what reasons (causes) I don't know nor state. Now if your saying Muslims don't have a terrorism problem, boy do we live in different worlds!

 

[pavlosmarcos]

It wouldn't matter when people like you believe utter falsehoods that are so obviously bs its unlikely you'd be convinced. I mean you agree with someone who thinks the UN has annexed land from people. any evidence I give would only reinforce your crackpot beliefs.

People like me, by that You mean people who state that you've been owned, just accept it man. I never once said I agree but going by the evidence supplied by Mustafha, it seem the UN did annex it, so you resort to ad homing, because you failed and then got seriously "Owned".

No, I didn't. He did, in the course of setting out illegitimate and unsupported assertions that happen to align with the standard anti-Islamic bigotry of the most familiar kind - complete with bizarre assertions about the "Muslim mind set" and what the Palestinians want according to their oppressors.

So the links he supplied to back up his statements are anti-islamic bigots ok then you need to prove that. Id start with wikipedia as that was the main one.

Are we supposed to assume the alignment of our poster's assertions with standard bigotry is a coincidence?

You can assume whatever you wish, if he used the links he supplied to back his statement, then you can only assume the information within those links is bigoted, but you do need to prove that.

Since you seem to have overlooked his actual posting, I quote it again: A couple of falsehoods ( conquest and annexation of another country's territory was forbidden by the UN in 1945, and certainly well established in principle by 1967. Israel's continuing behavior was the issue - the attempt to restrict things to 1948 was a rhetorical trick).

Did you even read the links that is the opposite to what they state, I've only seen you state that as your opinion.

So this: is false. Those aren't informed conclusions - the one about the UN backing a peaceful Palestinian resistance against further Israeli expansion is contradicted by many years of evidence, for starters,

No one mentioned the the UN backing a peaceful Palestinian resistance bar you right now. your need to read the links he supplied.

Israel continues to expand, and occupy new territory it has taken by force and holds by force. It continues to restrict and shrink and blockade the territory of the Palestinians, and seriously mistreats them in various ways. Do you actually not accept these plain observations as "facts"?

Nobody has disputed that, what is true today is not what was actually in 1948, read the links he supplied.

I pointed out that Israel has treated Christian Palestinians in the same manner as Muslim ones, and linked to the reaction from at least some of them. Do you continue to credit Mustapha's assertion that the "Muslim mind set" is to blame for Israeli bad behavior?

I don't assert anything, You got owned pure and simple accept it with dignity. As for whom ever stared it, just read the history of the area, and the Qu'ran, Hebrew bible and anything else you can find if you wish to know how something begun, but it isn't going to help the situation out there today.

 

[GeoffP]

Please point out what I posted about any religion that is not factual.

Catholicism and Islam. If you have specific cases - as in a couple of the links, fine. (Which, I have to actually write since Bells is on this thread instead of it just being bloody obvious, goes for any religion.) You generalize.

 

[GeoffP]

He can't be neutral because he is as much a bigot against the religion as Sandy is. You'll have a better time bashing your head with a brick than trying to get him to understand that. Trust me. I speak from experience.

The clown speaketh. No one puts too much stock in what you say, Bells. You mix hausefrau angst with Judenraus. And you can cease the bigot label immediately. Or come back to the other thread. It's even home turf. How much easier can it be? :shrug: (I await your imminent denunciation of Sam and DiamondHearts.)

your not a fair observer sorry no matter how much you try and spin it it still won't be true. you have shown yourself to be positively prejudiced against Islam and prejudiced in favor of jewish people with no regard to histry in its proper context.

I am certainly prejudiced against the negative political offshoots of Islam, and Islamic supremacism; by the same token, I am also prejudiced against Jewish extremism and oppression in the West Bank. You don't understand history, pj, which is why you inevitably - as above - find yourself in some woeful position regarding historical error. Further, you cannot call anyone else's argument baseless since you never post an base for your own bigotry.

IT was a part of expansion not ethnic cleansing. and I'm not confused.

Of course it was ethnic cleansing.

Says the person who treats history to whatever anachronistic twisting needed to make it fit his bigotry . Neither the Byzantium Empire nor the late Persian empires were known for their religious tolerance.

Really? Now you only need proof and relevance. Was I even talking about either of those nations, perchance? What religious tolerance currently exists in either of those geographic localities?

No. the expansion of Islam is rooted in a defensive need being in between to empires as it was.

Sadly, no. Much of it was extremely aggressive; it seems you only worry about the one side in the issue. How amusing that you try to put the ecumenicalist on a cross.

In that respect, you and Bells have a great deal in common. Trolling, also.

 

[GeoffP]

This crap about the "Muslim mindset" justifying mistreatment of Muslims would be garbage if there were a "Muslim mindset" as alleged, let alone offered as a defense of Israel's forty five years of expansion and occupation and oppression

What crap did he even suggest about the Muslim mindset,, you brought that up.
He just stated informed conclusions from the links he supplied.
Your welcome to posit up your own facts. Which you also have failed to do.
as I said to pj put up or shut up.

Gentlemen: mustafa did indeed bring up the "mindset" argument. I think this is an unfair generalization. It is a meme of some reasonable frequency, seemingly, but not ubiquitous.

However, mustapha is dead on the money about the UN issue, and pavlos is utterly correct to point this out. No one expects pj to be taken aback for a second in diatribe, but come on, ice: that was a fair point.

 

[Bells]

The clown speaketh. No one puts too much stock in what you say, Bells. You mix hausefrau angst with Judenraus. And you can cease the bigot label immediately. Or come back to the other thread. It's even home turf. How much easier can it be? :shrug: (I await your imminent denunciation of Sam and DiamondHearts.)

I already have my dear. What do you think led to the huge fight that led to my resignation?

At least I know what a genocide is and know why it's always bad. I dont look for excuses. But you're right. That is a subject for another thread.

 

[GeoffP]

I already have my dear. What do you think led to the huge fight that led to my resignation?

:shrug: Hubris? I speak only from experience here, having not really paid attention to your storied career, or else forgot it. Or perhaps I forgot it for a sneaky reason. Worth a ragepost, maybe?

At least I know what a genocide is and know why it's always bad.

Except if it informs extant, ongoing memes. Or if it happened to anyone besides designated groups. Where all them Manichaens and Zoroastrians go? No'un care!

I dont look for excuses. But you're right. That is a subject for another thread.

Take a shot if you think you have the stones. And pita with hubris: yummy.

 

[Bells]

:shrug: Hubris? I speak only from experience here, having not really paid attention to your storied career, or else forgot it. Or perhaps I forgot it for a sneaky reason. Worth a ragepost, maybe?

You're not really worth anything, to be honest.

Except if it informs extant, ongoing memes. Or if it happened to anyone besides designated groups. Where all them Manichaens and Zoroastrians go? No'un care!

Wring wring..

Take a shot if you think you have the stones. And pita with hubris: yummy.

I don't need to. You are your worst enemy.

 

[Shadow1]

.

So you think it's a shame, ok but that does not answer the question.
Also is this not a thread for discussion.

no, the shame is you, not the threat of the discussions, oh forget it, it's not meant to be understood like that, if you were french you'll understand what i meant, i meant, like, what a shame for how and what you're disuccing and fighting on, it's just rediculus...

 

[Shadow1]

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Lets face facts the todays Muslims have a higher propensity toward terrorism then all people on average, just as Americans far right do with stunts like the oklahoma city bombing and the IRS building kamikaze thing, heck Americans have a very high propensity towards military conquest these days, but that does not count as its out of the terrorist category.

i'm sure just the american citizents do so much barbarian crimes, and horrible crimes, also a hight number of sex crimes, drunks, murders, (just in NY, every 5 min there's a sex crime, a raped woman, and about 40% of american womens got raped once!!) comparing to my country, and comparing to how crimes here and how i see, wow, i should defferently say that you are professional, you all have guns like you were at war!!! you have alot of crimes, family problems(alot of family problems, and srious problems) most of your families there are spreaded and seperated, like if you get married you forget your parents or leave home when you're 18, etc... i actually prefer where i am.

 

[Shadow1]

Yeah, it always around to the Israel/Palestine thing if you let it go long enough.

What's the fuss? It's just a squabble between Arabs: Arabs who are Jews and Arabs who are Muslims? :shrug:
Meanwhile 3-5 million North Koreans starved to death, 3 million Africans starved to death and the planet added another billion or so mouths to feed... priority people. Priority!

actually, not arab jews and arab muslims and christians,
the jews that went to israeil, are from around the world, went to a country they heard that it's 100% jews, where jews make an ethic cleaning for it during there invation, also, we have jews in Tunisia, also Judhaism have many similarities with islam, also if you know it or not, we beleive that jews were allah's best people, also we know alot of good things about there relegion, also they eat meat just like us, the halal meat, also when to get the animal the knife should be very very (don't know the word, but strong so the animal don't feel much pain) and shouldn'tsee any other animal killed in front of him or show him the knife, etc... also others good thing, but it's not a problem of jews-arabs with (christians/muslims)-arabs, in tunisia, we have alot of tunisian jews, and they have cousing that are muslims, and everything is fine.!

 

[Shadow1]

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do we live in different worlds!

yes, but not totally.

 

[Shadow1]

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PS FOR ALL, LISTEN

why can't you keep a friendly discussion, with rational discussion? just stay calm guys!! why are you so agressive, is that how you all are?

 

[sandy]

PS FOR ALL, LISTEN
why can't you keep a friendly discussion, with rational discussion? just stay calm guys!! why are you so agressive, is that how you all are?

You keep trying to tell us how peaceful your religion is and we just don't see it. Every day there are news reports of Muslim terrorist attacks all over the world. We're not stupid.

2010.05.22 (Prokladnyi, Russia) - Two women and one man are gunned down in cold blood by Muslim terrorists.
2010.05.21 (Diyala, Iraq) - A Fedayeen drives an explosives-laden minibus into a crowd of shoppers and cafe patrons.
2010.05.21 (Mogadishu, Somalia) - Three civilians are killed during an al-Shabaab attack.
2010.05.21 (Mir Ali, Pakistan) - Hardliners abduct and murder a local tribesman.
2010.05.21 (Muqdadiya, Iraq) - Mujahideen invade a home and shoot four family members to death.
2010.05.21 (Pattani, Thailand) - Holy Warriors shoot a nurse in the head as she is riding to work.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

 

[GeoffP]

You're not really worth anything, to be honest.

You spend an awful lot of time worrying about me then, 'old friend'.

Wring wring..

Amazing. Genocides of the past need not apply with you, I see. How about Native Americans? Armenians? Which ones register?

I don't need to. You are your worst enemy.

Sure doesn't seem that way. Then again, neither are you my most effective enemy.

 

[Shadow1]

.

You keep trying to tell us how peaceful your religion is and we just don't see it. Every day there are news reports of Muslim terrorist attacks all over the world. We're not stupid.

2010.05.22 (Prokladnyi, Russia) - Two women and one man are gunned down in cold blood by Muslim terrorists.
2010.05.21 (Diyala, Iraq) - A Fedayeen drives an explosives-laden minibus into a crowd of shoppers and cafe patrons.
2010.05.21 (Mogadishu, Somalia) - Three civilians are killed during an al-Shabaab attack.
2010.05.21 (Mir Ali, Pakistan) - Hardliners abduct and murder a local tribesman.
2010.05.21 (Muqdadiya, Iraq) - Mujahideen invade a home and shoot four family members to death.
2010.05.21 (Pattani, Thailand) - Holy Warriors shoot a nurse in the head as she is riding to work.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

oh wait, did i talk to you? i think not, but i forgot to say "hey listen every budy exept sandy" hmm, sorry for forgetting it, so, are you talking to me? hmm, interresting, impressive too, oh wait, i forgot, you still in coma , i'm just waiting when are you going to wake up,


xD

 

[pjdude1219]

People like me, by that You mean people who state that you've been owned, just accept it man.

I don't accept things that didn't happen.

I never once said I agree but going by the evidence supplied by Mustafha, it seem the UN did annex it,

the UN has never annexed any land in its entire history.

so you resort to ad homing, because you failed and then got seriously "Owned".

I'm not ad homing. You believe a crack pot idea that the UN has annexed land. how can I be owned by falsehoods? please quit embaressing yourslf by defending falsehoods.

 

[Bells]

You spend an awful lot of time worrying about me then, 'old friend'.

Of course dear.

Amazing. Genocides of the past need not apply with you, I see. How about Native Americans? Armenians? Which ones register?

For me? They all do. For you? Only a particular few. Difference between you and I is that they don't apply to provide an excuse for it to happen now. I don't sit there and wring my hands saying 'they were denied commerce' in the past as an excuse to the one happening now or any in the future. Your registration is genocides is only concerned with the protection of a few and not all. And that's your problem. Not mine. Instead of learning in the bid to stop it against any, you're only interested in stopping (or even recognising) it against a few. I guess for you, some are more of a protected species than others. Me? I'd want to protect the whole species as in all within it. You're only interested in protecting a few within the species. *Shrugs*..

I mean look at you Geoff.. you care so much that you can only ask for specifics because you know that I will use your silence to point out your hypocrisy. What's even more amusing now is that you joined in earlier... And then you say that you are a fair observer? I am surprised your head has not fallen off your shoulders from the sheer volume of your hypocrisy!

Sure doesn't seem that way. Then again, neither are you my most effective enemy.

Wouldn't want to be. You're simply too easy.