To atheists: did you always lack faith in God?

[one_raven]

Semantic games.

Bullshit.
Yes, there are a lot of Atheists who lack belief in God.
There are also quite a lot who refer to themselves as Atheists because they either hate God (he took away my baby - he lets people suffer - he called for war blah, blah, blah) or because they hate the church they were raised in, but they still do not lack belief in God.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

Semantic games. Most self-proclaimed atheists I know (in fact, all of them) simply do not believe this god fable, along with the thousands of other fanciful fables we don't believe in.

Do I hate gnomes? No. I simply give them zero weight as real entities.

Gnomes, gods, dragons, fairies, flying reindeer, trolls, gray aliens, ghosts, etc...

What is the fundamental difference between any of them? I can only see one. God(s) promise that your daddy is watching over you all the time and you will get to live with him for eternity. Yay. We all feel better. Otherwise, they are all fundamentally the same. Dress em' any way you want.

You don't believe in gnomes, dragons & fairies!!!?????
My mother warned me about people like you.

 

[John99]

Bullshit.
Yes, there are a lot of Atheists who lack belief in God.
There are also quite a lot who refer to themselves as Atheists because they either hate God (he took away my baby - he lets people suffer - he called for war blah, blah, blah) or because they hate the church they were raised in, but they still do not lack belief in God.

That is true and most are not even Atheist's. Dont get me wrong, lets not push them into a religious belief system because there is the propensity toward fanaticism. Maybe we should leave well enough alone.

 

[phlogistician]

In this case what matters is what Sam thinks. Or is she not permitted to think that a polytheist is wrong about something?

You don't seem to grasp the point. It is that polytheists believe one thing, and monotheists another. If you don't believe in polytheism you are an atheist wrt it's gods. It's not about who thinks what is right or wrong, but what you believe in .

The 'maths' makes no sense in relation to the conclusion you imply.
If someone believes in Yahweh, then denying the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't make them atheist. Not even a little bit.

It exactly does. Atheism applies to all gods. Maybe monotheists are so arrogant to think that there is only one god, and all atheism relates to their one god, but that is fallacious. I am an atheist and I don't believe in any gods! BTW, the monotheist God acknowledges the existence of other Gods, maybe you should read the Old Testament.

The point you don't seem to grasp about the FSM is that while clearly it is a made up deity, so are all the others. Why should one god, despite how absurd, have more credibility than another? No reason at all. That's the point.

Anyway, SAM, as always, is dodging, because she is seemingly incapable of honesty in debate.

Anyway, SAM, here's a list of major gods;

http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/bl/bl_myth_gods_index.htm

Please C&P and tick off the ones you believe in, so we can do the maths.

 

[Pete]

Phlogistician, you're twisting the language for rhetorical purposes in an attempt to make someone look bad. It's pretty weak.
As you say, atheism applies to *all* gods. That is precisely what it means. If someone believes in any god (even just one), then they're not atheist.

 

[phlogistician]

Phlogistician, you're twisting the language for rhetorical purposes in an attempt to make someone look bad. It's pretty weak.
As you say, atheism applies to *all* gods. That is precisely what it means. If someone believes in any god (even just one), then they're not atheist.

No, if someone does not believe in 99% of the described gods, then they are 99% atheist. Do you believe in Pan, Loki, and Ganesh? No? Then you are an atheist wrt those gods. It's relative see, is that too subtle for you? Can't you entertain such an idea? Need it black and white?

Theists do not find stories of other people's Gods compelling, but will go to great lengths to tell you why their faith is the right one. This exercise shows the hypocrisy in that position.

 

[S.A.M.]

Phlogistician, you're twisting the language for rhetorical purposes in an attempt to make someone look bad. It's pretty weak.
As you say, atheism applies to *all* gods. That is precisely what it means. If someone believes in any god (even just one), then they're not atheist.

You're arguing with someone who thinks an atheist "lacks belief". Give it up.

 

[phlogistician]

You're arguing with someone who thinks an atheist "lacks belief". Give it up.

SAM, I am an atheist, do you dare tell me what I think?

Anyway SAM, yet another dishonest dodge from you. You could have responded to my question, but, being incapable of honesty, you swerve.

But please, don't change, you are the perfect example of religion rotting the mind.

 

[(Q)]

Phlogistician, you're twisting the language for rhetorical purposes in an attempt to make someone look bad. It's pretty weak.
As you say, atheism applies to *all* gods. That is precisely what it means. If someone believes in any god (even just one), then they're not atheist.

Theism - The doctrine or belief in the existence of a God or gods.

Atheism - A lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

I suppose theists are both theists and atheists at the same time? Curious...

 

[S.A.M.]

SAM, I am an atheist, do you dare tell me what I think?

Anyway SAM, yet another dishonest dodge from you. You could have responded to my question, but, being incapable of honesty, you swerve.

But please, don't change, you are the perfect example of religion rotting the mind.

 

[(Q)]

But please, don't change, you are the perfect example of religion rotting the mind.

Rotting? ... or rotted?

 

[phlogistician]

Yet another wasted opportunity to acquit yourself.

You really are a twister, SAM.

 

[phlogistician]

I suppose theists are both theists and atheists at the same time? Curious...

Of course they can be, because atheists are not the opposite of theists, as some claim, so it's not a double think. It's an odd idea, perhaps, but no more odd than Pete's 'Get out of Jail' definition that belief in one deity excuses someone from having an opinion about all the others!

 

[superluminal]

Bullshit.
Yes, there are a lot of Atheists who lack belief in God.
There are also quite a lot who refer to themselves as Atheists because they either hate God (he took away my baby - he lets people suffer - he called for war blah, blah, blah) or because they hate the church they were raised in, but they still do not lack belief in God.

tihslluB.

Those who believe in god but hate "him" for one or another of the reasons you stated are NOT atheists. If they refer to themselves as such, then they need a slap upside the head with a dictionary.

 

[superluminal]

You're arguing with someone who thinks an atheist "lacks belief". Give it up.

Once again:

"A person who does not believe that deities exist; one who lacks belief in gods; A person who believes that no deities exist; one who denies the existence of all gods"

Four different "flavors" there of a sampling of widely used "definitions". We atheists (ungodly, demon-spawn... wait a second... ummm...) fall under the broad category of people who simply do not believe, lack belief, or deny the existence of, god(s).

So can we please all STFU about our own personal definitions of the variations of the word "atheist"?

Theist = Believes in god(s), thinks atheists are narrow minded fools with a distorted view of reality

Atheist = Dosen't believe in god(s), thinks theists are narrow minded fools with a distorted view of reality

 

[Norsefire]

I think, using a "scientific method" frame of thought, many people would convert to atheism, but in the end nobody has a clue if there are higher powers or not.

I think agnsoticism is the most intelligent stance because it's the only valid stance. Weak atheism isn't a "stance", so it doesn't count, and strong atheism is a rather foolish stance, as is "strong theism"


Therefore I consider myself an agnostic Theist. The reason I have faith in God is mostly cultural and philosophical, and because I think religion is important to social function

 

[one_raven]

tihslluB.

Those who believe in god but hate "him" for one or another of the reasons you stated are NOT atheists. If they refer to themselves as such, then they need a slap upside the head with a dictionary.

I couldn't agree more.
I have a big, heavy 1971 edition of the OED we can use.

 

[S.A.M.]

Once again:

"A person who does not believe that deities exist; one who lacks belief in gods; A person who believes that no deities exist; one who denies the existence of all gods"

Heh, so you believe in phlog's bullshit too?

/hi supe

 

[superluminal]

I think, using a "scientific method" frame of thought, many people would convert to atheism, but in the end nobody has a clue if there are higher powers or not.

I think agnsoticism is the most intelligent stance because it's the only valid stance. Weak atheism isn't a "stance", so it doesn't count, and strong atheism is a rather foolish stance, as is "strong theism"

So, are you a Santa Clause agnostic? An Easter Bunny agnostic? You it's the only valid stance to give serious credence to the idea of the easter bunny whenever the subject comes up?

Therefore I consider myself an agnostic Theist. The reason I have faith in God is mostly cultural and philosophical, and because I think religion is important to social function

That's nice. I also think religion is important to social function. Cultism, ostracism, ideological genocide, denial of evolutionary history, etc, would never work nearly as well in society without religion.

 

[Norsefire]

So, are you a Santa Clause agnostic? An Easter Bunny agnostic? You it's the only valid stance to give serious credence to the idea of the easter bunny whenever the subject comes up?

No, but I've already explained why God and those other concepts are not similar. The others have no basis, therefore I have no reason to consider them. "God" does (and I've explained extensively on numerous occasions why God has a basis), therefore it becomes a serious possibility worth discussing

Of course I'm speaking only of the concept of a "god" not any specific religion or God in general. The actual details that religion creates don't have a basis, JUST THE CONCEPT.

That's nice. I also think religion is important to social function. Cultism, ostracism, ideological genocide, denial of evolutionary history, etc, would never work nearly as well in society without religion.

Cultism is not "bad"; every real society is basically a cult. Of course it depends on what kind of cult that is, that makes it bad or good

I meant only the social unity and cultural conformity functions that religion provides. Otherwise not everyone will be conform and conformity is very important.

Not like robots but to a degree.