To atheists: did you always lack faith in God?

[Medicine*Woman]

As a child I had a vivid imagination. I loved the children Bible stories. I liked SciFi and Fantasy books as well. I would have LOVED Harry Potter back then. I also had a love for history. At some point I decided to read up on the history of Christianity and a few years later became atheist.

*************
M*W: Yes, it seems that the more one learns and knows about christianity, and I mean with an in depth immersion into christianity, the more one is likely to become an atheist. I can't say this about other religions, just christianity.

I asked in another thread what brought others to atheism. This is a subject I want to pursue. Let me know what brought you all to atheism.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Oh like the Isma al Husna?

*************
M*W: Just answer Phlog's question.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

You can only convert to atheism by thinking.

Anyway, I was raised christian, and then thought, and know I'm an atheist

*************
M*W: Like I've always said, becoming an atheist is not something that happens over night. It takes years of reading, learning and thinking about *_________* religion to come to the understanding that whatever religion it is, it is a false belief. Some people choose religion over thinking. They are called theists. Some people choose thinking over religion. They are called atheists. For those who find themselves stuck between the fear of god and the fear of thinking what might just be true are called agnostics. But who wants to live in fear?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Interesting. I was raised christian, thought, and tried wicca, thought some more, became an atheist, thought some more, and now I'm back to christianity. I guess it just depends on how much you are willing to think.

*************
M*W: I can understand the desire to find the core of religious belief. I've been there, too. It was important, in my thinking process, to find the one true religion, so I searched and searched and searched.

As a child, I followed. I went along to the baptist church with my school friends. There was always something not right in my gut feeling about christianity. As a teenager, I questioned everything. I wanted to believe that I could find the only true religion, so I pondered within (nothing strange for a teenager). As a young adult, married with children, I wanted to give my children a spiritual direction, so I converted to catholicism and was hell bent to scorch the Earth with catholicism. Those I first scorched, however, were my children and raised them as Roman catholics.

As they were becoming adults, I continued to search for reason, and christianity became less and less able to take me beyond a certain point of understanding when I wanted to go the distance. I consulted my priest, and he basically told me to stop questioning, so I became discontented and I began my own private search for the truth that would take me years to do.

It was a long, drawn out process, through years of research and re-education, to come to the understanding that all of this god/religion/ritual/salvation/eternal life was false. It's only a figment of one's imagination. It's all a false hope. It doesn't really exist but only in the minds of those who can't face the truth.

It sounds from your post that you chose to think but not believe, and then you went on to your own search for the truth. Then you turned around and chose to believe and not think, and went back to your old religious comfort zone. Somewhere in your mind, you still have doubts about christianity, or you would have never gone elsewhere. I think your desire now is to follow the christian crowd, so you won't be alone. I've been there, and I'm not dissing you about your beliefs. I'm interested in the process of the search and why it led you 360 degrees. The point I'm trying to make is, once a person learns the truth, that is usually where they will stay in the process. What was more important to you, the truth you found from your search, or your need for a familiar comfort zone?

 

[S.A.M.]

All of them, and quit dodging.

Not dodging. You'll have to tell me which polytheists you think believe in many gods. All the ones who I have heard described as polytheists (e.g. Hindus) are not really polythiests.

See this thread:

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=58358

For example, I find no disconnect between how the Hindus define God from the way I do.

So which polytheists are you specifically referring to?

 

[visceral_instinct]

Why do you refer to it as a lack of faith, SAM? Would you speak of a 'lack' of schizophrenia, or a 'lack' of dissociative disorder?

 

[S.A.M.]

Don't ask me, I learned it from the atheists here. I refuse to say lack of belief though, thats just too much.

 

[iceaura]

Don't ask me, I learned it from the atheists here. I refuse to say lack of belief though, thats just too much.

If you reword things to suit yourself, don't claim to have obtained your wording from others in the same line of the post, would be my advice.

For example, I find no disconnect between how the Hindus define God from the way I do.

But outsiders who deal with Hindus and Muslims both, do find important differences in their conceptions of deity.

To the point that the different Gods involved are often easily distinguishable, to outsiders who believe in none of them.

One of the questions of interest that has come up here is whether one must have faith in something to have faith.

In particular, did those who lacked faith in a God as children lack faith ?

 

[S.A.M.]

In particular, did those who lacked faith in a God as children lack faith ?

Thats what I'm trying to figure out. Are some people incapable of faith and just arrive at that realisation at different points in time?

 

[Pete]

By theists. That's a theist, and an over narrow, perspective.

I really don't think so. Can you cite an example of a non-theist using "atheist" to refer to anyone other than those who have considered and rejected the existence of God?

The degree to which atheistic people (a better usage, IMHO) consciously decide not to believe is up for debate and varies considerably by individual.

Quite a few theists, as well as atheists, claim to have no real choice in the matter - we don't usually describe a theist as someone who consciously decided to believe in a deity.

True, but missing the point to a degree. My fault, due to an insufficiently precise choice of words.
What I should have said is the term is always used in practice to describe someone who is conscious of the idea of a deity, has considered the question of whether a deity exists, and does not hold a belief in the existence of a deity.

Yes it is. SAM requires of all atheists that they answer for her description of Dawkins's alleged opinions and stances, as representing atheism generally.

It is not what was said or implied in the post in question. Following that track in this context is just being argumentative, sidestepping the question raised.

 

[(Q)]

Thats what I'm trying to figure out. Are some people incapable of faith and just arrive at that realisation at different points in time?

Nah, faith is simply a suspension of disbelief, anyone can do that. :yawn:

 

[Pete]

It's not what people think of polytheists that matters, but what polytheists think themselves.

In this case what matters is what Sam thinks. Or is she not permitted to think that a polytheist is wrong about something?

The question is simple; How many gods are there that have been described, and how many of them do you believe in?

Add those up and give us a percentage of your atheism.

Don't meta-analyse, just do the maths please.

The 'maths' makes no sense in relation to the conclusion you imply.
If someone believes in Yahweh, then denying the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't make them atheist. Not even a little bit.

 

[Pete]

Thats what I'm trying to figure out. Are some people incapable of faith and just arrive at that realisation at different points in time?

I thought it was well accepted that everyone has faith?
[thread=85346]Atheists have faith in things too[/thread]

Someone was is incapable of faith is incapable of functioning.

 

[iceaura]

Can you cite an example of a non-theist using "atheist" to refer to anyone other than those who have considered and rejected the existence of God?

One easy example would be the numerous posts on this forum that have referred to atheistic religions, such as some forms of Buddhism and various NA Red religions and the like - the fact that most Western adult atheists have at some time had a deity of some kind pushed at them (difficult to ignore) is not a safe circumstance from which to draw conclusions about atheistic human beings in general.

Consider a practitioner of an atheistic religion who meets a Pentecostal missionary, and after consideration is not persuaded. Have they then become an "atheist", without having changed any of their beliefs ?

"Thats what I'm trying to figure out. Are some people incapable of faith and just arrive at that realisation at different points in time? "
”
I thought it was well accepted that everyone has faith?

Your'e dealing with SAM - in that world, faith does not exist unless it is faith in something, something definable and nameable.

If everyone has faith, then it is possible to have faith as a quality of character, without having a nameable object of it. It's common,in fact, in children and people raised outside of a formal theistic religion. That would be the case in my world.

Yes it is. SAM requires of all atheists that they answer for her description of Dawkins's alleged opinions and stances, as representing atheism generally.
”
It is not what was said or implied in the post in question.

I respectfully disagree. I think it was. SAM takes "Dawkins" (her version of him, essentially a label she applies to her idea of atheistic thought and approach) as representing true atheism, the honest common center of all atheistic approach. Atheistic folks who claim to disagree with "Dawkins" are being inconsistent, and are either confused or in denial, in her view.

 

[phlogistician]

Not dodging. You'll have to tell me which polytheists you think believe in many gods. All the ones who I have heard described as polytheists (e.g. Hindus) are not really polythiests.

See this thread:

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=58358

For example, I find no disconnect between how the Hindus define God from the way I do.

So which polytheists are you specifically referring to?

All of them, and this is just another lame stalling attempt Sam.

Pick a pantheon or two, Roman or Greek, and tick off which deities you believe in.

Oh, and the Hindu religion definitely seems to be polytheistic to many. You might cite that Brahman is the supreme being, but that's not an exact match with monotheistic viewpoints, is it? There are different gods, with different names.

Anyway Sam, quit dodging, list all the gods you have ever heard of, and say whether you believe in them.

 

[Balerion]

Thats what I'm trying to figure out. Are some people incapable of faith and just arrive at that realisation at different points in time?

Perhaps. I never had faith, despite going to a Catholic school as a child and growing up around moderately religious parents. It's not like I actively tried to avoid it; I just never had it.

Even so, I think that to assume atheism is an active belief system is false. It really is just not having a belief. You're not wrong to say it's a lack of faith; that's exactly what it is, actually. Some may say they know there is no god and call themselves atheists, but I would think of them as anti-theists rather than atheists. For them, they are convinced that there is no god. Me, and any other logical atheist, would rather just stick to the truth: We don't believe in one.

 

[superluminal]

Faith in a god creature is just a fun way for some to while away the time since they have nothing better to do.

Meh.

 

[superluminal]

Anyway Sam, quit dodging,...

Ha! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Ohhhh... my sides hurt!

 

[one_raven]

You left out people who aren't atheists, but still lack faith in God - which seems to be the case for most self-proclaimed "atheists" I have met.
They hate God - if you hate God, you obviously don't lack belief in God.

 

[superluminal]

You left out people who aren't atheists, but still lack faith in God - which seems to be the case for most self-proclaimed "atheists" I have met.
They hate God - if you hate God, you obviously don't lack belief in God.

Semantic games. Most self-proclaimed atheists I know (in fact, all of them) simply do not believe this god fable, along with the thousands of other fanciful fables we don't believe in.

Do I hate gnomes? No. I simply give them zero weight as real entities.

Gnomes, gods, dragons, fairies, flying reindeer, trolls, gray aliens, ghosts, etc...

What is the fundamental difference between any of them? I can only see one. God(s) promise that your daddy is watching over you all the time and you will get to live with him for eternity. Yay. We all feel better. Otherwise, they are all fundamentally the same. Dress em' any way you want.