Three Experiments Challenging SRT

[Masterov]

I understand you.
I think so.

You state that the traveling twin gets "special" when traveler moves from one inertial frame to another inertial reference frame. (Do I understand you?)

Yes, the traveling twin's acceleration is what lets us know he/she is the one with an increase in velocity.

You argue that the physical properties of matter are change by acceleration, and it leads to slower time?

1. What are these physical properties of matter. Name it.
Tell us, how are relate the time dilation and acceleration.
What is the name of the law?
What is the name of the parameter that defines the rate of flow of time?

2. Assume that the acceleration can result to time dilation.
One would assume that the braking do time acceleration.
But braking is no different from the acceleration.
The difference has in the direction and in the terminology.

If the acceleration do time dilation, then what do time-acceleration, to return time to its original state?
=====================

Вы утверждаете, что физические свойства материи изменяются при ускорении, что и приводит к замедлению времени?

1. Назовите эти физические свойства материи.
Расскажите, как связаны между собой замедление времени и ускорение.
Как называется этот закон.
Как называется тот параметр, который отвечает за скорость течения времени?


2. Допустим, что ускорение может приводить к замедлению времени.
Можно было бы предположить, что торможение ускоряет время.
Но торможение ничем не отличается от ускорения.
Разница в направлении и в терминологии.

Если ускорение замедляет время, то что ускорит его, чтобы вернуть время в исходное состояние?

 

[Masterov]

You argue that the transition from one inertial frame to another inertial frame the physical properties of matter will be changed.

No, matter does not change. But the change of frames is what tells us that the two twins will experience time differently.

You state that the brothers will have the identical physical characteristics (in terms of physics - there is no difference), and yet the difference is.

This difference has a mystical origin?
====================================

Вы утверждаете, что между братьями будут иметь одинаковые физические параметры (с точки зрения физики – разницы нет), и тем не менее разница есть.

Эта разница имеет мистическое происхождение?

 

[Masterov]

I ask you to name the physical properties of matter, which vary in the transition of matter from one inertial system to another inertial reference frame.

You ask for a physical property that explains what happens.

This is where we have difficulty in translation I believe.

No one can say what fundamental mechanism causes time dilation. Not and be 100% correct.

This is something that is observed and can be predicted with the mathematics of SR. The underlying reason is still not well defined or described.

We do not know why the speed of light is constant or what exactly prevents matter from exceeding the speed of light.

There are some theories. I linked a paper discussing one. But no one has a complete a full answer.., yet.

You are a victim of fraud.
No exist experiments that reliable proved the existence of a time dilation.
=============

Вы стали жертвой мошенничества.
Не существует надежных экспериментов, которые доказали существование замедления времени.

 

[OnlyMe]

You state that the brothers will have the identical physical characteristics (in terms of physics - there is no difference), and yet the difference is.

This difference has a mystical origin?

It would be my best guess at this time that the answer is to be found within quantum mechamics or at least from research in that area.

Each twin, as long as they are inertial, moving at a constant velocity, can do experiments.., on the planet and in the spaceship, and find the same answers.

When they look away from the planet and the spaceship, they will not always see the same thing.

There is nothing mystical. Puzzling sometimes, but not mystical.

I am sorry I do not have more time this morning, to try and find a way around the communication problem. I must take care of some errands that will not wait.

 

[OnlyMe]

You are a victim of fraud.
No exist experiments that reliable proved the existence of a time dilation.
=============

Вы стали жертвой мошенничества.
Не существует надежных экспериментов, которые доказали существование замедления времени.

Masterov, would you explain to me what you think the relationship between clocks and time is?

Perhaps, it is in these definitions that some of the miscommunication exists.

 

[Masterov]

If physics can not see the difference in the state of both twins, and the difference is (still) takes place, then this difference can only have a mystical nature.

So when I said that the SRT is a religious doctrine, I did not lie, I'm not exaggerating and twisted...

SRT is not a scientific theory.
SRT is a religious doctrine.
=========================

Åñëè ôèçèêà ðàçíîñòè íå âèäèò â ñîñòîÿíèè áëèçíåöîâ, à ðàçíèöà (òåì íå ìåíåå) èìååò ìåñòî áûòü, òî ýòà ðàçíèöà ìîæåò èìåòü òîëüêî ìèñòè÷åñêóþ ïðèðîäó.

Ïîýòîìó, êîãäà ÿ ãîâîðèë, ÷òî SRT ÿâëÿåòñÿ ðåëèãèîçíîé äîêòðèíîé, ÿ íå âðàë, ÿ íå ïðåóâåëè÷èâàë è íå êðèâèë äóø¸é.

SRT íå ÿâëÿåòñÿ íàó÷íîé òåîðèåé.
SRT ÿâëÿåòñÿ ðåëèãèîçíîé äîêòðèíîé.

 

[przyk]

1. What are these physical properties of matter. Name it.

The property that matter is held together mainly by electromagnetic and strong/colour interactions which are Lorentz symmetric and described by the Standard Model of particle physics. A property of any Lorentz symmetric theory is that if you take any solution of it then a Lorentz transformation of it is also a solution. So if a physical structure is bound by electromagnetic and strong interactions, then we expect a moving version of that structure to show effects predicted by the Lorentz transformation, including length contraction and time dilation.

The first examples of this were noticed and anticipated in electromagnetism in the late 19[sup]th[/sup] century, as it was becoming increasingly apparent that macroscopic matter was held together by electromagnetic forces:

• In 1888 and 1889 Oliver Heaviside published two papers in which he calculated the electric and magnetic fields that would be produced by moving electric point charges from Maxwell's equations. The electric and magnetic fields he calculated had the property of being compressed in the direction of motion of the charge.
• Based on this, George Fitzgerald proposed that matter held together by electric forces would undergo length contraction. Hendrik Lorentz predicted more or less the same thing in 1892
• Around 1897, Joseph Larmor essentially discovered that what is now called the Lorentz transformation had special significance to Maxwell's theory of electrodynamics, and used it to show that the orbital period of an electron orbiting a charged nucleus would be longer, if the whole system was in motion, by a factor $$1/\sqrt{1 \,-\, v^{2}/c^{2}}$$. He also showed that length contraction would be a general feature of any moving structure bound by electromagnetic forces. Lorentz arrived at similar conclusions by 1899.

Basically, by the end of the 19[sup]th[/sup] century, it was already expected that matter held together by electromagnetic forces would be both length contracted and time dilated, and that the Lorentz transformation provided a useful tool for understanding this. All Einstein did in 1905 was to propose that the Lorentz transformation was an exact symmetry for all physics, and not just electromagnetism.

Information gleaned from Wikipedia's pages on the history of the Lorentz transformation and some of the historic physicists named. If Masterov is really interested in understanding the answer to his question, he now knows where to look for it. Basically, Masterov's question on the "mechanism" behind time dilation was answered in terms of electromagnetism about 113 to 115 years ago, several years before Einstein's famous paper defining SRT.

An excellent introduction to this approach to understanding relativity, based on electromagnetism, is given in John Bell's "How to teach special relativity", included as chapter 9 in "Speakable and Unspeakable in Quantum Mechanics". For whatever it's worth Google Books hosts a partial preview of this work, though with some pages missing.

 

[Masterov]

1. What are these physical properties of matter? Name it.

The property that matter is held together mainly by electromagnetic and strong/colour interactions which are Lorentz symmetric and described by the Standard Model of particle physics. A property of any Lorentz symmetric theory is that if you take any solution of it then a Lorentz transformation of it is also a solution. So if a physical structure is bound by electromagnetic and strong interactions, then we expect a moving version of that structure to show effects predicted by the Lorentz transformation, including length contraction and time dilation.

The first examples of this were noticed and anticipated in electromagnetism in the late 19[sup]th[/sup] century, as it was becoming increasingly apparent that macroscopic matter was held together by electromagnetic forces:

• In 1888 and 1889 Oliver Heaviside published two papers in which he calculated the electric and magnetic fields that would be produced by moving electric point charges from Maxwell's equations. The electric and magnetic fields he calculated had the property of being compressed in the direction of motion of the charge.
• Based on this, George Fitzgerald proposed that matter held together by electric forces would undergo length contraction. Hendrik Lorentz predicted more or less the same thing in 1892
• Around 1897, Joseph Larmor essentially discovered that what is now called the Lorentz transformation had special significance to Maxwell's theory of electrodynamics, and used it to show that the orbital period of an electron orbiting a charged nucleus would be longer, if the whole system was in motion, by a factor $$1/\sqrt{1 \,-\, v^{2}/c^{2}}$$. He also showed that length contraction would be a general feature of any moving structure bound by electromagnetic forces. Lorentz arrived at similar conclusions by 1899.

Basically, by the end of the 19[sup]th[/sup] century, it was already expected that matter held together by electromagnetic forces would be both length contracted and time dilated, and that the Lorentz transformation provided a useful tool for understanding this. All Einstein did in 1905 was to propose that the Lorentz transformation was an exact symmetry for all physics, and not just electromagnetism.

Information gleaned from Wikipedia's pages on the history of the Lorentz transformation and some of the historic physicists named. If Masterov is really interested in understanding the answer to his question, he now knows where to look for it. Basically, Masterov's question on the "mechanism" behind time dilation was answered in terms of electromagnetism 113 - 115 years ago, several years before Einstein's famous paper defining SRT.

An excellent introduction to this approach to understanding relativity, based on electromagnetism, is given in John Bell's "How to teach special relativity", included as chapter 9 in his book "Speakable and Unspeakable in Quantum Mechanics". Apparently, Google Books hosts an electronic copy.

Oh!
It was very informative.
I got 30 years younger.
Remembered university, student revelry and all that.
But I not found in your's text response to the question:

What are these physical properties of matter?

 

[brucep]

Masterov, would you explain to me what you think the relationship between clocks and time is?

Perhaps, it is in these definitions that some of the miscommunication exists.

The miscommunication doesn't exist. Masterov is an ideologue. Facts that don't fit his world view [ideology] don't exist. Not surprising he calls relativity theory a religion.

 

[brucep]

I asked you to show us a data of the measurements of relativistic effects, which were obtained by GPS satellites.
Where are it?

I looked at your link.
Word "GPS" no exist there.
==================

Я просил вас привести данные измерений релятивистских эффектов, которые были получены на GPS спутниках.
Где они?

Я посмотрел ссылку, которую вы дали.
Там слова GPS нет совсем.

Stonewall Masterov. GPS stands for Global Positioning System. I'll link it for you.
http://www.eftaylor.com/pub/projecta.pdf

You didn't answer my question. Which Russian physicists are using your theory for discovery? My guess is nobody? They probably want to use a theory that actually works instead.

 

[AlphaNumeric]

AlphaNumeric, your arguments are ended, isnt it?

You've made it clear you have no interest in understanding relativity and you have no problem making up dishonest delusions of conspiracies. I'll add you to the list of people I consider too dishonest and/or too stupid to be worth speaking to. Enjoy the rest of your wasted existence.

 

[przyk]

What are these physical properties of matter?

I just explained it to you: the electromagnetic and strong interactions that bind matter together, which are as best as we can tell as Lorentz symmetric physical laws.

The same way, the mechanism that prevented time dilation in Newtonian physics was the assumed Galilean symmetry of all physical laws.

Without a symmetry like Galilean or Lorentz symmetry, there is no simple way of predicting how velocity should affect matter.

 

[Masterov]

Masterov, would you explain to me what you think the relationship between clocks and time is?

Perhaps, it is in these definitions that some of the miscommunication exists.

The miscommunication doesn't exist. Masterov is an ideologue. Facts that don't fit his world view [ideology] don't exist. Not surprising he calls relativity theory a religion.

0. The scientist is a generator of new scientific knowledge.
If a scientist has extracted new scientific knowledge, he confirmed (thus) the rank of the scientist.
If a person has spent decades on the extraction of scientific knowledge, and nothing has extracted, it should change professions.

1. Time is clock's readings.

2. I not made ideology.
Scientific ideology made not I.
I use it.

3. I understand the difference between the religious ideologies and the scientific ideologies.

4. SRT is not a scientific theory for two reasons:
SRT describes the properties of matter which does not exist.
SRT protected by methods that are to protect the scientific theories are unacceptable.

Truth in science is defined experiment.
So: what is immeasurable, then does not exist for science.
(If you can not measure then how you can scientifically set experiment?)
The scientist does not have the truth.
Scientist can seek the truth.
His path is infinite.

Religious truth is defined by doctrines and does not require experimental confirmation.
Truth in religion do not need to understand.
In religion believe in the truth.
Believer already possesses truth.
His path to divine truth is finite, but difficult.
=============

0. Учёный является генератором новых научных знаний.
Если учёный добыл новое научное знание, то он подтвердил (тем самым) своё звание учёного.
Если человек десятилетия потратил на добычу научных знаний и ничего не добыл, то ему следует сменить профессию.

1. Время это то, что показывают часы.

2. Я не создаю идеологии.
Научную идеологию создал не я
Я использую её только.

3. Я понимаю разницу между религиозной идеологией и научной идеологей.

Истина в науке определяется экспериментом.
Поэтому: то, что неизмеримо, то не существует для науки.
(Как поставить эксперимент, если измерить нельзя?)
Ученый не имеет истины.
Ученый может искать истину, стремиться к ней.
Его путь к истине бесконечен.

Религиозная истина определяется доктринами и не требует экспериментального подтверждения.
Истина в религии не нужно понимать.
В религии верят в истину.
Верующий уже обладает истиной.
Его путь к божественной истине конечен, но труден.

4. SRT не является научной теорией по двум причинам:
SRT описывает свойства материи, которые не существуют.
SRT защищается методами, которые для защиты научных теорий неприемлемы.

 

[Masterov]

I asked you to show us a data of the measurements of relativistic effects, which were obtained by GPS satellites.
Where are it?

Stonewall Masterov. GPS stands for Global Positioning System. I'll link it for you.
http://www.eftaylor.com/pub/projecta.pdf

I looked at your link again.
I did not find a data of the measurements of relativistic effects, which were obtained by GPS satellites again.
I asked you to show us a data of the measurements of relativistic effects, which were obtained by GPS satellites again.
Where are it?

You didn't answer my question. Which Russian physicists are using your theory for discovery? My guess is nobody? They probably want to use a theory that actually works instead.

Russian science recognizes the same religious doctrine, which recognizes by your's science.
Russian science are the religious sect just as, the way your's science.

Our science officials fastidiously frown on any scientific results that have been obtained are not in America and not in Europe. They our scientific findings are simply not considered.

Russian science is not able to create new knowledge.

Russian scientists (who offer new knowledge) to declared insane and fired from their jobs often.
==================

Российская наука признаёт те же религиозные доктрины, которые признаёте вы.
Российская наука такая же религиозная секта, какой является и ваша наука.

Наши чиновники от науки брезгливо морщатся на любые научные результаты, которые были получены не в Америке и не в Европе. Подобные научные результаты они просто не рассматривают.

Российская наука не способна создать новое знание.

Российских учёных, которые предлагают новое знание, объявляют сумасшедшими и увольняют с работы.

 

[Masterov]

What are these physical properties of matter?

I just explained it to you: the electromagnetic and strong interactions that bind matter together, which are as best as we can tell as Lorentz symmetric physical laws.

The same way, the mechanism that prevented time dilation in Newtonian physics was the assumed Galilean symmetry of all physical laws.

Without a symmetry like Galilean or Lorentz symmetry, there is no simple way of predicting how velocity should affect matter.

You have not answered my question again.

I repeat my question again:

One twin sleeps in a bed, and the other twin is sleeping in a spaceship.

You state that time of spaceship are slower.

What (what is name of it? what and in what physical quantities measure it? what does it depend?) physical parameter responsible for the rate of flow of time in a space ship?

=======================

Вы не ответили на мой вопрос опять.

Я повторяю саой вопрос снова и снова:

Один близнец спит в кроваи, а другой близнец спит в космическом корабле.

Вы утверждаете, что в космическом корабле время течёт медленнее.

Какой физический параметр отвечает за скорость течения времени в космическом корабле?
Как называется?
Как и в каких величинах измеряется?
От чего он зависит?

 

[Masterov]

przyk, уou argue that the physical properties of matter are change by acceleration, and it leads to slower time?

1. What are these physical properties of matter. Name it.

2. Assume that the acceleration can result to time dilation.
One would assume that the braking do time acceleration.
But braking is no different from the acceleration.
The difference has in the direction and in the terminology.

If the acceleration do time dilation, then what do time-acceleration, to return time to its original state?
=====================

przyk, Вы утверждаете, что физические свойства материи изменяются при ускорении, что и приводит к замедлению времени?

1. Назовите эти физические свойства материи.

2. Допустим, что ускорение может приводить к замедлению времени.
Можно было бы предположить, что торможение ускоряет время.
Но торможение ничем не отличается от ускорения.
Разница в направлении и в терминологии.

Если ускорение замедляет время, то что ускорит его, чтобы вернуть время в исходное состояние?

 

[Masterov]

AlphaNumeric, your arguments are ended, isnt it?

You've made it clear you have no interest in understanding relativity and you have no problem making up dishonest delusions of conspiracies. I'll add you to the list of people I consider too dishonest and/or too stupid to be worth speaking to. Enjoy the rest of your wasted existence.

I have no interest in understanding relativity?

You always similarly finished the debate with an opponent, after your's arguments do exhaust?

Pretty!

=================

У меня нет интереса к пониманию относительности?

Вы всегда так заканчиваете полемику с оппонентом, после того, как ваша аргументация заканчивается?

Мило!

 

[Masterov]

Well, it's time to sum up the discussion.

I believe that the victory remained with me.
SRT destroyed both theoretically and experimentally.
(There are other opinions?)

AlphaNumeric, przyk, rpenner, origin, OnlyMe, brucep ... not recognize their defeat.
(I expected to a like ending.)

These gentlemen are not interested in how the world works.
These gentlemen are not scientists.
These gentlemen are officials (manager) in science.
These gentlemen are interested in bureaucratic privileges and positions, money and stuff like that.
These gentlemen are not interested in science, but they interested to have their place in it.
(Just as in Russia.)

I also got evidence that not only Russian science are represented not by scientists, but by - religious sects.

==========================

Что ж, пора подвести итог дискуссии.

Я считаю, что победа осталась за мной.
SRT уничтожена и теоретически и экспериментально.
(Есть другие мнения?)

AlphaNumeric, przyk, rpenner, origin, OnlyMe, brucep... не признают своё поражение.
(Я ожидал подобное окончание.)

Этих господ не интересует то, как мир устроен.
Эти господа учёными не являются.
Эти господа являются чиновниками (менеджер) в науке.
Этих господ интересуют чиновные звания, чиновные должности, деньги и всё в таком роде.
Этих господ интересует не наука, и их место в ней.
(Всё как в России.)

Я так же убедился в том, что не только российская наука представлена не учёными, а религиозными сектантами.

 

[przyk]

I believe that the victory remained with me.

Yup. That's right. You know what? If believing that makes you feel happy and validated, go ahead. To the rest of us, you're a complete waste of time who posts the same stuff over and over again no matter what anyone says to you.

 

[Masterov]

I believe that the victory remained with me.

Yup. That's right. You know what? If believing that makes you feel happy and validated, go ahead. To the rest of us, you're just a waste of time.

Yes. We are - different.
I - a scientist.
You - a religious fanatic.
You did not try to understand the truth.
You did try defended SRT only.

You to suffer a defeat of this discussion, but you will never admit it.
Scientists do not behave.
This is typical behavior of religious fanatics.

This is my opinion, which I am ready to prove again.

Scientists in the controversy did not participate at all.
(Why?)

Descendants will umpire we.
======================

Да. Мы – разные.
Я – учёный.
Вы – религиозный фанатик.
Вы не пытались понять истину.
Вы лишь защищали SRT.

Вы проиграли в дискуссии, но вы это никогда не признаете.
Учёные так себя не ведут.
Это типичное поведение религиозных фанатиков.

Это моё мнение, которое я готов доказать ещё раз.

Учёные в полемике не принимали участия совсем.
(Почему?)

Но судить нас будут те, кто в этой дискуссии не участвовал.
Нас рассудят потомки.