Three Experiments Challenging SRT

[Quantum Quack]

No, I have had other things to do with my time. I just finished a project for the European Space Agency. They consider me a good enough scientist to be worth paying. I do actual science with real world results, my scientific accomplishments are more than the sum of my forum posts.

Now this is something which is always asked and discussed in a special relativity course. The fact you don't know shows you have never taken the time to learn special relativity.

One of the twins stays in an inertial frame. The other does not. The one who does not stay in an inertial frame will be the one who has aged the least. Acceleration is not a relative thing, unlike velocity, and the one who accelerates is the one who is not always in the same inertial frame.

If you're unwilling to even try to find this stuff out yourself then you show how intellectually dishonest you are.

Are you and Quantum Quack competing in some "Who can be the biggest ignorant hypocrite" contest or something?

hee hee... a conspiracy perhaps ALphanumeric... I see you have again failed to respond adequately to the SRT relative zero thread... perhaps you should shw a bit of intellectual courage and enter into a discussion for a change rather than the hit and run tactics and call to authority you are so good at...

The question about accelleration not being relatative stems from what basis... and if you state or make reference to GR then you are off topic regarding SRT. Using GR to disqualify arguement agaist SRT the simultaneously stating one can not use GR to support an arguement is rather disingenous and pretty dishonest.

Of course you will not respond directly to this post as you never do when challenged.. you just return later claiming some sort of victory when that victory has not been actually acheived. And at the same time accusing OTHER of lies and dishonesty.....


A rather False position don't you think?

 

[Masterov]

Special?
Pertain "speciation" to physics?
What physical parameter defines this "speciation"?

As I said, the fact that the traveling twin changes inertial frames make the traveling twin special when compared to the twin on the planet, who does not change frames.

(I keep saying things in different ways because I know you are using a translator and I don't know what the translation will sound like.)

I understand you.
I think so.

You state that the traveling twin gets "special" when traveler moves from one inertial frame to another inertial reference frame. (Do I understand you?)

You argue that the transition from one inertial frame to another inertial frame the physical properties of matter will be changed.

I ask you to name the physical properties of matter, which vary in the transition of matter from one inertial system to another inertial reference frame.
=================

Вы мне понятны.
Я так думаю.

Вы утверждаете, что путешествующий близнец приобретает "special" тогда, когда путешественник переходит из одной инерциальной системы отсчёта в другую инерциальную систему отсчёта. (Правильно ли я вас понял?)

Вы утверждаете, что при переходе из одной инерциальной системы отсчёта в другую инерциальную систему отсчёта изменяются физические свойства материи.

Я прошу вас назвать эти физические свойства материи, которые изменяются при переходе этой материи из одной инерциальной системы в другую инерциальную систему отсчёта.

 

[brucep]

Just curious but when someone makes an unsupported statements accusing reality of lying, is that not a way to be get a 'vacation'. Masterov has been making this type of accusation for quite awhile now and has no justification except that there is some sort of conspiracy.

Shouldn't he supply real data refuting time dilation of GPS or retract his statement (or just go away for awhile)?

Apparently it's perfectly fine to constantly trash the literature in favor of irrelevant personal non science. That's the internet.

 

[brucep]

Consistent with SR?
It's a lie.
A time dilation of GPS-satellites no exist.
(On paper only.)A time dilation of GPS-satellites no exist.
I'm sorry you're done.
The time dilation exist on paper only.

This is a bold faced lie.

 

[brucep]

In the spirit of fairness to Masterov, isn't that precisely what you have just done when making that 'drive by' cheap shot post, brucep?

Look to yourself. Peace!

Many folks have shown Masterov the errors of his way, including me. Same for you. You should 'look to yourself'. Troll.

 

[Masterov]

What physical parameter are responsible for the rate of flow of time in a space ship?
How is name of it?
How and in what quantities are measured?

What does it depend on?

You keep asking this question. I think you know that no one has a final answer. There are some theories... I provided a link to one such paper and even tried to give a brief simplistic explanation.

SRT hundred years there as a scientific theory, and the physical properties of matter, which she describes are not found until now. You suggest that we must continue to believe in the mysticism of divine genius of Mr. Einstein?
----------------------

I once said that modern science has turned into a religious sect in which scientific theories are religious doctrines that not required understand. Moreover, an attempt to understand these doctrines are seen as blasphemy, as doubts about the divinity of the Great Genius of Einstein. You took it as an exaggeration. Sure. But I am not exaggerating: in the USSR for such "abuse" to religious doctrines did the repressed clever man, as in the Middle Ages by Holy Inquisition.

I want to appeal to the mind of the scientist: Pay attention to the fact that not scientists (behind which a decade of painstaking scientific work) head science. Science led PR-asts, who are not specialists in scientific matters. PR-asts are not interested in truth. They not interested: how be right? But: Who is right?
PR-asts interested that "your body" are right, even if he is wrong as a scientist.
===========

Сто лет существует SRT в качестве научной теории, а физические свойства материи, которые она описывает, не обнаружены до сих пор. Вы предлагаете нам продолжать верить в мистику и божественную гениальность господина Эйнштейна?
----------------------

Когда-то я уже говорил, что современная наука превратилась в религиозную секту, в которой научные теории являются религиозными доктринами, понимать которые не нужно. Более того, попытка понять эти доктрины воспринимается как кощунство, как сомнения в божественности гения Великого Эйнштейна. Вы восприняли это как преувеличение. Наверняка. Но я не преувеличивал: в СССР за подобное "надругательства" над религиозными доктринами люди репрессировались, как в средние века.

Я хочу обратиться к разуму Учёных: обратите внимание на то, что наукой руководят не учёные, за плечами которых десятилетия кропотливого научного труда. Наукой руководят PR-асты, которые не являются специалистами в научных вопросах. PR-стов интересует не истина, не то: как правильно?, а: Кто прав?
PR-астам требуется, чтобы всегда был прав "их человек", даже если он не прав как учёный.

 

[Masterov]

Just curious but when someone makes an unsupported statements accusing reality of lying, is that not a way to be get a 'vacation'. Masterov has been making this type of accusation for quite awhile now and has no justification except that there is some sort of conspiracy.

Shouldn't he supply real data refuting time dilation of GPS or retract his statement (or just go away for awhile)?

Apparently it's perfectly fine to constantly trash the literature in favor of irrelevant personal non science. That's the internet.

I asked you to show us a data of the measurements of relativistic effects, which were obtained by GPS satellites.
Where are it?
================

Я просил вас привести данные измерений релятивистских эффектов, которые были получены на GPS спутниках.
Где они?

 

[Masterov]

Or do you think I'm stupid man, because I'm Russian?

I assure you that not all Russian stupid.

Masterov, I have never called you stupid...

Yes. Not called.
But you talk to me like I'm a schoolboy who is studying physics and who does not understand the simplest things in physics.
==================
Да. Не называли.
Но Вы разговариваете со мной так, словно я школьник, который изучает физику и не понимает самых простых вещей в физике.

I don't see that any progress is being made.

Yes.
Your arguments are out.

SRT describes the properties of matter, which matter has not.
This is - the fact.
=============================

У вас закончились аргументы.

SRT описывает свойства материи, которых материя не имеет.
Это – факт.

 

[AlphaNumeric]

. I see you have again failed to respond adequately to the SRT relative zero thread... perhaps you should shw a bit of intellectual courage and enter into a discussion for a change rather than the hit and run tactics and call to authority you are so good at...

You've shown you aren't willing to even find out what certain words mean. You argue with definitions. I consider you pointless to further engage since, quite frankly, you lack the brain capacity, honesty and even sufficient grip on reality to engage in honest, informed discussion.

The question about accelleration not being relatative stems from what basis... and if you state or make reference to GR then you are off topic regarding SRT. Using GR to disqualify arguement agaist SRT the simultaneously stating one can not use GR to support an arguement is rather disingenous and pretty dishonest.

Of course you will not respond directly to this post as you never do when challenged.. you just return later claiming some sort of victory when that victory has not been actually acheived. And at the same time accusing OTHER of lies and dishonesty.....

A rather False position don't you think?

Well done on showing why I don't bother to further discuss things with you. Acceleration can be talked about within special relativity, it just doesn't involve the additional considerations given in general You'd know that if you'd ever done any special relativity but you haven't so you're just assuming your ignorance is accurate, which it isn't. And your revisionist history, dishonestly warping previous interactions between you and I, show that you aren't asking for further discussion in good faith, you just want more things to lie about.

I mean it, I consider you sufficiently dishonest, detached from reality and thick that you're not worth my time.

 

[Masterov]

Which of the two of the twins will be younger than?
And - why?

One of the twins stays in an inertial frame. The other does not.

No-no: rocket motors are turned off, and the rocket is removed from Earth mechanically.
Gravity is absent and in this thread is not considered.
==================

Двигатели ракеты выключены, и ракета удаляется от земли по инерции.
Гравитация отсутствует и в данной теме не рассматривается.

the one who accelerates is the one who is not always in the same inertial frame.

You argue that the physical properties of matter are change by acceleration, and it leads to slower time?

1. What are these physical properties of matter. Name it.

2. Assume that the acceleration can result to time dilation.
One would assume that the braking do time acceleration.
But braking is no different from the acceleration.
The difference has in the direction and in the terminology.

If the acceleration do time dilation, then what do time-acceleration, to return time to its original state?
=====================

Вы утверждаете, что физические свойства материи изменяются при ускорении, что и приводит к замедлению времени?

1. Назовите эти физические свойства материи.

2. Допустим, что ускорение может приводить к замедлению времени.
Можно было бы предположить, что торможение ускоряет время.
Но торможение ничем не отличается от ускорения.
Разница в направлении и в терминологии.

Если ускорение замедляет время, то что ускорит его, чтобы вернуть время в исходное состояние?

 

[brucep]

I asked you to show us a data of the measurements of relativistic effects, which were obtained by GPS satellites.
Where are it?
================

Я просил вас привести данные измерений релятивистских эффектов, которые были получены на GPS спутниках.
Где они?

Get a clue. There's every detail available on the net. Do this simple project to find out why the satellite and earth clock tick rates won't stay synched when they're separated. Pick 'Student Project on the Global Positioning System'. I doubt you can do this project since your algebra is so bad.
http://www.eftaylor.com/download.html#general_relativity
There's two time dilation components. Relative velocity for SR and gravitational time dilation for GR. The SR and GR time dilation components sum. Don't want either in the analysis leave it out.

 

[Masterov]

I asked you to show us a data of the measurements of relativistic effects, which were obtained by GPS satellites.
Where are it?
================

Я просил вас привести данные измерений релятивистских эффектов, которые были получены на GPS спутниках.
Где они?

Get a clue. There's every detail available on the net. Do this simple project to find out why the satellite and earth clock tick rates won't stay synched when they're separated. Pick 'Student Project on the Global Positioning System'. I doubt you can do this project since your algebra is so bad.
http://www.eftaylor.com/download.html#general_relativity
There's two time dilation components. Relative velocity for SR and gravitational time dilation for GR. The SR and GR time dilation components sum. Don't want either in the analysis leave it out.

I asked you to show us a data of the measurements of relativistic effects, which were obtained by GPS satellites.
Where are it?

I looked at your link.
Word "GPS" no exist there.
==================

Я просил вас привести данные измерений релятивистских эффектов, которые были получены на GPS спутниках.
Где они?

Я посмотрел ссылку, которую вы дали.
Там слова GPS нет совсем.

 

[AlphaNumeric]

No-no: rocket motors are turned off, and the rocket is removed from Earth mechanically.
Gravity is absent and in this thread is not considered.

None of which has anything to do with what I said.

You argue that the physical properties of matter are change by acceleration, and it leads to slower time?

1. What are these physical properties of matter. Name it.

Non-sequitor. I do not have to know the cause of a phenomenon to know about the phenomenon. The Sun emits light, which we can measure and quantify even if we didn't know the source of that energy. Similarly it is an experimentally demonstrated fact that clocks which are moved in the way described by the 'twin paradox' will end up with time discrepencies completely inline with the predictions of special relativity.

2. Assume that the acceleration can result to time dilation.
One would assume that the braking do time acceleration.
But braking is no different from the acceleration.
The difference has in the direction and in the terminology.

I never said otherwise. You're tilting at windmills.

If the acceleration do time dilation, then what do time-acceleration, to return time to its original state?

Your grasp of English is insufficient to form a coherent sentence and my grasp of Russian is non-existent. Please try again or failing that I'll ask a work college, who is Russian, to read your post for me.

 

[brucep]

I asked you to show us a data of the measurements of relativistic effects, which were obtained by GPS satellites.
Where are it?

I looked at your link.
Word "GPS" no exist there.
==================

Я посмотрел ссылку, которую вы дали.
Там слова GPS нет совсем.

I'm not going to explain it to you since you're not interested in the science. You're only interested in being right. You've stonewalled every attempt to help you understand why your hypothesis is wrong. The satellite clock tick rate is corrected to stay synchronized with the earth based clock. That is the measurement. The amount predicted by relativity theory. I'm pretty sure you'll stonewall the project from Exploring Black Holes by Edwin Taylor and John Wheeler. So which Russian physicists are using your theory during discovery? I say nobody since they wouldn't want to get fired for spewing nonsense.

 

[Masterov]

One of the twins stays in an inertial frame. The other does not.

No-no: rocket motors are turned off, and the rocket is removed from Earth mechanically.
Gravity is absent and in this thread is not considered.

None of which has anything to do with what I said.

???

 

[Masterov]

You argue that the physical properties of matter are change by acceleration, and it leads to slower time?

1. What are these physical properties of matter. Name it.

Non-sequitor. I do not have to know the cause of a phenomenon to know about the phenomenon. The Sun emits light, which we can measure and quantify even if we didn't know the source of that energy. Similarly it is an experimentally demonstrated fact that clocks which are moved in the way described by the 'twin paradox' will end up with time discrepencies completely inline with the predictions of special relativity.

SRT offers us mysticism instead of science.
This is what I mentioned above.

What is impossible to measure, for the physics does not exist.
==================

Вместо науки SRT предлагает нам мистику.
Это то, о чём я говорил выше.

То, что невозможно измерить, для физики не существует.

 

[Masterov]

One of the twins stays in an inertial frame. The other does not.

2. Assume that the acceleration can result to time dilation.
One would assume that the braking do time acceleration.
But braking is no different from the acceleration.
The difference has in the direction and in the terminology.

I never said otherwise. You're tilting at windmills.

Oh! What will return slow time to the normal of it if there is no time-acceleration?
======================

-- Один из близнецов находится в инерциальной системе отсчета.Другой нет.

-- Предположим, что ускорение может привести к замедлению времени.
Можно было бы предположить, что торможение ускорит время.
Но торможение ничем не отличается от ускорения.
Разница есть в направлении и в терминологии.

-- Я никогда не говорил иначе. Вы с ветряными мельницами.

-- Ox! Что же вернёт замедленное время к нормальному его состоянию, если не будет ускорения времени?

 

[Masterov]

If the acceleration do time dilation, then what do time-acceleration, to return time to its original state?

Your grasp of English is insufficient to form a coherent sentence...

Try.
If I can not understand you, then I will help do that.

========================

Попытайтесь.
Если я не смогу понять вас, тогда мне помогут это сделать.

 

[Masterov]

AlphaNumeric, your arguments are ended, isnt it?

 

[OnlyMe]

I understand you.
I think so.

You state that the traveling twin gets "special" when traveler moves from one inertial frame to another inertial reference frame. (Do I understand you?)

Yes, the traveling twin's acceleration is what lets us know he/she is the one with an increase in velocity.

You argue that the transition from one inertial frame to another inertial frame the physical properties of matter will be changed.

No, matter does not change. But the change of frames is what tells us that the two twins will experience time differently.

I ask you to name the physical properties of matter, which vary in the transition of matter from one inertial system to another inertial reference frame.

You ask for a physical property that explains what happens.

This is where we have difficulty in translation I believe.

No one can say what fundamental mechanism causes time dilation. Not and be 100% correct.

This is something that is observed and can be predicted with the mathematics of SR. The underlying reason is still not well defined or described.

We do not know why the speed of light is constant or what exactly prevents matter from exceeding the speed of light.

There are some theories. I linked a paper discussing one. But no one has a complete a full answer.., yet.