But if you constantly try to "build the world" then I guess you wouldn't allow any god in it.
An incredibly daft statement. It's not a case of 'allowing' if the being exists and is shown to exist. In thousands of years man has accomplished nothing to show existence of such a being. If it was shown to exist then I would 'allow' it, because it exists.
That's all there is to it and I'm certainly not asking for too much. You guys can't show it at all and as such have no choice but to fall back on: "you have to believe for no reason", which is simply ludicrous.
But don't expect God to show Himself for you, that's expecting too much, for me at least.
If the "all-loving" god can't manage something as simple as that, then there's a serious problem.
Maybe a hint that your son is allright.
My son
isn't "alright" - he's dead.
In my perspective; no one can do anything without God. You want me to try to figure out your perspective instead so that we can get accurate at your perspective? This is a discussion, people have different kind of views, discussing such simple things won't help.
Let me explain this simply for you in the hope that it might lead you to some understanding:
I am an atheist. Your statement is akin to me telling you that you can't do anything without Lenny the Leprechaun. Completely stupid yes? A complete waste of time yes?
A) It didn't in any way aid the discussion,
B) It is totally unjustified, and without any worth or value.
C) It's far too sweeping to have any meaning..
What you're saying is:
A man can't be gay without god,
A man can't kill his neighbour without god,
A man can't go to hell without god.
What exactly do you mean "anything"? Can I pour myself some corn flakes without god? Can I wipe my botty without god?
What you do by saying we can't do anything without god, is make him entirely responsible for everything -
he is responsible for our sins,
he is responsible for our beliefs,
he was the one that made Hitler kill millions of jews.
But anyway, you can't do anything without Lenny the Leprechaun.
That's your claim not mine. To see is not the only justification to say something exists
Ok then, how are you justified to say god exists?
But as before, discussing these simple things won't help.
Won't help what?
So you say you don't think less of me?
Without sounding harsh: I don't have the slightest care for you or about you. You're some unknown dude on the other side of the planet that has no impact on my life. What is there to think less of? I come here, have a discussion, log off, bonk the wife and go to sleep. What you believe is of zero consequence to me.
But if you feel I got you wrong, then say so.
I already did. Didn't you even read my post? Specifically the part that said: "Not only is it wrong".
The reason I brought it up, is because you seem to think christians like myself are complete idiots, what could a discussion based on that lead to?
Hopefully somewhere better than to tell me I can't do a shit, or smoke a cigarette without god.
What do I have to say to someone that thinks I'm a idiot, that my belief is idiotic
Why you asking me? You're your own person, (then again wait, no you're not.. you can't do anything without god - so bloody ask him).
and that thinks God is bad?
Well that's silly. I'm an atheist. It's like me telling you you think Lenny the Leprechaun is bad. It has no value.
However, let me explain that it is hard to discuss and debate an issue from a position of non-belief, (it leads to a very short discussion, and I like long discussions).
Basically you'd say: "god loves you", and I'd say: "no such being". That's the end of that. For the sake of a longer discussion I have little choice but to start on the basis of existence. It's the same when I discuss the latest Star Trek episodes with some friends. They'll ask: "who's the strongest alien?" - I could reply "it's all fake", but I actually prefer to discuss the matter from a position of existence - i.e "species 8472 kick borg ass".
Understand what I'm saying?
I don't think god's bad - because there is no such being. What I do discuss is matters that are in the bible, (that many christians consider to be the word of god), that quite clearly show god as anti-human. He has killed more humans than any other being in the history of the universe - and that just doesn't sit right with me. I guess my sense of morals differ to his, and yours.
I try, but when I feel the discussion is onesided then it doesn't really matter what I say.
That's a very shallow statement to make. Not once in our discussions have you agreed with me on anything. Should I now sit here saying this is a one-sided discussion all because we disagree or because you seemingly don't appreciate what I'm saying?
I'm not saying you shouldn't want me to agree with you - that in itself is fine, It's when you make statements like the last one that I must raise an eyebrow.
Great things have come from those that appreciate eachothers oppinion and integrity
While that's a very sweet and noble sentence, it's seemingly targetted solely at me. I can happily say the exact same thing right back at ya, but I generally don't try and stoop to such depths when I have little to say concerning the actual discussion at hand. If you think I'm going to just sign on the dotted line the second you make a claim, you might aswell pull up a chair - 'cause you're gonna be here a long time.
No man has the higher authority.
I disagree with that statement. I wont go into it because it is of no relevance to our discussion.
Yes I do, but since you failed to understand that perspective I gave you another.
What are you chatting about? That was the first post you'd made the statement that nobody can see god and live, and if you look at my quote you pasted, you'll see I agree. When did I "fail to understand" something that you only just mentioned and I instantly agreed with?
Sorry, can't join you in your laugh.
I didn't ask or expect you to.
