THE REAL [GOD] = ALLAH ...... join here you all need to know

[786]

Gee it's nice that you can cover "all the christians" with a blanket statement like that kinda like when non-muslims catagorize "all muslims" as terrorists.

good job

I didn't make that statement up. Read the following for the proof.

"Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law."

Galatians 3:13

Paul says in Romans 7:6 that the law is dead He further says in Galatians 3:13 that the law is a curse. In Galatians 3:10 he claims that those who labor under the law of God are under a curse. And he claims in Hebrews 8:13 that Gods covenant is old, decaying, and ready to vanish away.

According to Paul the Christians don't have to follow the law.

Peace be unto you

 

[786]

banning alcohol is stupid, christianity is better if for this reason only

thats your opinion

Peace be unto you

 

[Sauron]

It may be so. But Islam banns alcohol while Christianity does not.

That depends upon which Christians you ask. Many take the following NT verses to indicate a ban on alcohol:

LUK 1:13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
LUK 1:14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
LUK 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
LUK 1:16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

TI1 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
TI1 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
TI1 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

And of course, there are several such verses in the OT as well. I don't find the verses particularly convincing, but the blanket claim that Christianity didn't ban alcohol is weak.

Your second claim that alcohol is bad for you is also weak, especially in light of research concerning red wine.

 

[Lord_Phoenix]

Muhammad:
Uh...thanks for spending you time but you spent your time needlessly. Everything you said is flawed. Well and your longs posts... umm... you know I would be interested to know how many people read them.

 

[786]

That depends upon which Christians you ask. Many take the following NT verses to indicate a ban on alcohol:

LUK 1:13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
LUK 1:14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
LUK 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
LUK 1:16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

TI1 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
TI1 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
TI1 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

And of course, there are several such verses in the OT as well. I don't find the verses particularly convincing, but the blanket claim that Christianity didn't ban alcohol is weak.

Considering that Jesus (pbuh) drank according to the following verses. A Christian is to follow the foot steps of Jesus (pbuh), so in that case wine is allowed since Jesus (pbuh) drank according to the bible.

"For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and
you say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking,
and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax
collectors and "sinners."'" (Luke 7:33-34)

Jesus contrasted Himself with John the Baptist. Jesus said that John
did not eat bread nor drink wine, but Jesus did eat and drink. This
gives the impression that Jesus ate bread and drank wine. Furthermore,
because Jesus ate and drank, He was called a "glutton" and a
"drunkard." This implies that Jesus possibly drank wine

Your second claim that alcohol is bad for you is also weak, especially in light of research concerning red wine.

But is alcohol healthy for you, overall, not just a specific wine?

Peace be unto you

 

[Sauron]

Considering that Jesus (pbuh) drank according to the following verses. A Christian is to follow the foot steps of Jesus (pbuh), so in that case wine is allowed since Jesus (pbuh) drank according to the bible.

"For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and
you say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking,
and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax
collectors and "sinners."'" (Luke 7:33-34)

1. The standard response from abstinent christians is that the people "saying" the above were the Pharisees and the Jews, which means that they weren't telling the truth about what Jesus was doing (i.e., drinking). In other words, the enemies of Jesus accused him of drinking - that proves nothing.

2. I noticed you skipped the other verse, from Paul.

3. There are other such verses, in the OT and the NT.

As I said - I don't find the verses that compelling. But your sweeping assertion that christianity does not ban alcohol simply doesn't hold true.

There was an entire movement in this country, the Temperance Movement, that was predicated upon the perception that christianity banned alcohol. We had two amendments to our Constitution over that silly nonsense - and the motivation behind the entire mess was rooted in christianity.

Furthermore,
because Jesus ate and drank, He was called a "glutton" and a
"drunkard." This implies that Jesus possibly drank wine

That assumes that the Jews and Pharisees were telling the truth about Jesus. From the christian perspective, that's a highly doubtful assumption.

But is alcohol healthy for you, overall, not just a specific wine?

Your question makes no sense. You can't rule out wine, just because it doesn't fit your hypothesis.

Peace be unto you

wa 'alaykumu as-salaam, wa rahmat allah, wa barakaatahu alkathiira aiydhan.

 

[Athelwulf]

Is muhammad even here anymore? It would be nice if (s)he would return and respond to my response to his/her post.

 

[path]

I didn't make that statement up. Read the following for the proof.

"Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law."

Galatians 3:13

Paul says in Romans 7:6 that the law is dead He further says in Galatians 3:13 that the law is a curse. In Galatians 3:10 he claims that those who labor under the law of God are under a curse. And he claims in Hebrews 8:13 that Gods covenant is old, decaying, and ready to vanish away.

According to Paul the Christians don't have to follow the law.

Peace be unto you

Right and non-muslims didn't make up that muslims are terrorists.
3.151

Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire

7.004

How many a township have We destroyed! As a raid by night, or while they slept at noon, Our terror came unto them.

8.112

Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

8.060

Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly

17.059

And We refrain from sending the signs, only because the men of former generations treated them as false: We sent the she-camel to the Thamud to open their eyes, but they treated her wrongfully: We only send the Signs by way of terror (and warning from evil).

etc.

 

[spidergoat]

thats your opinion

Peace be unto you

Why do muslims say this when they really mean "Go F youself"?

 

[786]

Right and non-muslims didn't make up that muslims are terrorists.
3.151


7.004


8.112


8.060


17.059


etc.

For some of the verses you need to read the commentary to know the background. For some translation of "terror" can also be "fear" as many have done so, but if you knew they seem like synonymous terms. While the other is what a Muslim should do in the battle. None promote terrorist attacks.

Btw the verse isn't 8:112 its 8:12, I think you made a mistake.

Peace be unto you

 

[path]

For some of the verses you need to read the commentary to know the background. For some translation of "terror" can also be "fear" as many have done so, but if you knew they seem like synonymous terms. While the other is what a Muslim should do in the battle. None promote terrorist attacks.

Btw the verse isn't 8:112 its 8:12, I think you made a mistake.

Peace be unto you

Dear 786 every terrorist who acts in the name of allah has read and interpreted the quran and the commentary, do you really think they don't beleive they are following allah's commandments to the letter. The violence and hatred of the non-believers (including the typical belief of the vast majority of muslims that non-muslims are unclean sinners ie your earlier post) is a fruit of islam no matter how you try and gloss it over. Give me a drunk anyday rather than that

 

[surenderer]

Dear 786 every terrorist who acts in the name of allah has read and interpreted the quran and the commentary, do you really think they don't beleive they are following allah's commandments to the letter. The violence and hatred of the non-believers (including the typical belief of the vast majority of muslims that non-muslims are unclean sinners ie your earlier post) is a fruit of islam no matter how you try and gloss it over. Give me a drunk anyday rather than that

So Path is this a problem with Islam or a problem with the way it's interpeted? I agree that Islam can be used by those who want to commit terror but that is nothing new to because all relgions have had the same problem......ever seen a KKK member without a Bible in his hand? and before you guys say "yea thats the problem with all religon" I can point out plenty of atheist murderes also. Islam is the answer if followed correctly(IMO) but sadly enough the few bad apples seem to spoil it for the rest......at least if thats where you guys like to look

 

[surenderer]

banning alcohol is stupid, christianity is better if for this reason only

Says the Drunk

 

[surenderer]

Muslims are drunks, too. Just look at the history of the Saudi royal family. Even Osama Bin Laden used to drink and womanize when he was in Beirut.

The religion as it is officially recognized, and the way it is implemented are two very different things.

Now thats a better answer and also true...........the House of Saud are Wahabbi's and in the opinion of many outside the fold of Islam........but if that's what you like to use as your opinion of Islam then by all means.......just know that they represent less than 2% of all muslims in the World........that sound smart to you?

 

[spidergoat]

So, even if a religion could eliminate alcohol, the human desire for intoxication remains. Hashish has been commonly accepted in the muslim world as an alcohol alternative, and if not that, then tobacco, spinning in circles while beating yourself with a lash, or fasting, all means of changing your conciousness.

The implication seems to be that whatever religion bans the most unhealthy things is the best, as if people were little children that can't make their own decisions.

 

[surenderer]

Well people usually dont seem to be able to make their own decisions(IMO) and they need help....... What I do know is that normally in the brain there is an inhibitory control which tells us not to engage in shameful or wrongful acts. Any suppressant drug including alcohol will suppress this nerve pathways and take away such restraint. Ability to make a judgement, to protect the body or honor, a quality for humans is taken away under the influence of drugs.That is Islam's problems with alchohol and/or drugs.....is that not true? :m:

 

[Michael]

Islam is the answer if followed correctly(IMO) but sadly enough the few bad apples seem to spoil it for the rest......at least if thats where you guys like to look

Can you point to one Islamic society that has reached this wondrous Nirvana we keep hearing about?

It’s always: well the people interpret it wrongly, or well you see the infidels are screwing it all up, or well “insert excuse here”.

It been over One Thousand years, I think we can safely say that for whatever reasons Islam, similar to communism, just does not work.

 

[duendy]

Well people usually dont seem to be able to make their own decisions(IMO) and they need help.......

d)))))))haha...oh yeah, by WHO exactly. First patronize people, then secretly manipulate them...'for their own good' of course. this trick is payed by authoritarian relgions, and secular authoritarainism (check out Edward Bernays !)

What I do know is that normally in the brain there is an inhibitory control which tells us not to engage in shameful or wrongful acts.

d)))No, that is your indoctrination telling you this. what THAt does is inhibit YOUr brain to see your hypocrisy about that idea you have

Any suppressant drug including alcohol will suppress this nerve pathways and take away such restraint. Ability to make a judgement, to protect the body or honor, a quality for humans is taken away under the influence of drugs.That is Islam's problems with alchohol and/or drugs.....is that not true? :m:

You are just thinking the same way as 'we' do with the war on [some]drugs, cept you include alcohol (don't know if it's true Islam culture allows hashish?).....but when you say 'drugs', what do you MEAN? there are different varieties of drugs. alcohol is a drug too, though many who are prejudiced against 'drugs' dont seem to be aware of this.
What about hallucinogens surrenderer? i bet they to are part of the list of substances banned by your religion, Islam. This is not surprising, as all of patriarchal worldviews do not want people--especially 'ordinary' people haveing the freedom to explore DIRECT spiritual experience.
Why? because it want to bind them to what is imagined to be 'order', as transmitted through your holy Book, the Koran
thus you all 'submit' to authoritarianism. not many of you being bold anough to deny that indoctrination

 

[everneo]

Can you point to one Islamic society that has reached this wondrous Nirvana we keep hearing about?

We can find out individuals or groups, cannot find a society as a whole generally. This holds good for any religion/ideology that promises wonderous things.

 

[surenderer]

Can you point to one Islamic society that has reached this wondrous Nirvana we keep hearing about?

It’s always: well the people interpret it wrongly, or well you see the infidels are screwing it all up, or well “insert excuse here”.

It been over One Thousand years, I think we can safely say that for whatever reasons Islam, similar to communism, just does not work.

You mean besides the ones that carried to World while Europe was crawling around in the Dark Ages?.....but if you are reffering to today then the reason why Islamic Nations are lagging behind Western Nations(financally) is because Sharia premits Muslims from charging Interest or usury......but a Muslims reward is in the next life.....not this one ......Now what was it that you believed in again? I noticed you still didnt answer me