THE REAL [GOD] = ALLAH ...... join here you all need to know

[(Q)]

C'mon Geoff, do you actually think Diamondhearts has the ability to think for herself? Has that been shown at all?

 

[GeoffP]

There's as much evidence of that as there is for allah.

This is what scares me: she'd kill apostates and homosexuals, and she thinks the entire world would be better muslim. She's a Nazi, basically, and she probably subscribes to the other old islamic notion that anywhere islam is impeded from spreading (defined, of course, however one likes presumably) that war must ensue.

"Your law in your world, our law in our world, separate, of course! we don't want to take you over; and by the way, we want your world."

This is ridiculous.

Geoff

 

[Huwy]

hahahah hilarious video of women trying to eat with burqa's/hijabs/headscarfs on

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5F9iabO8hU&search=muslim

 

[Huwy]

Islamic Thinkers Society in NYC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5BPVF1C5LE
"The mushroom cloud is on its way! The real holocaust is on its way!".

 

[DiamondHearts]

So Diamond has essentially given up and has taken to propaganda instead of debate.

Should I now do the same?

Geoff

I recently found some nice articles which I wanted to share with the readers of the beauty of Islam and its purity as the true religion.

I don't know why you feel it your duty to create hatred of Islam or Muslims.

Also, I do not answer questions that i have answered before such as what year was the Quran canonized (it wasn't, it was always the same quran and was transmitted by memorization, until it was recorded by Hazrat Usman).

----------------------------------------

The readers should do a little research of their own on Islam.

I highly recommend these websites:

http://www.islamicity.com/

http://www.themodernreligion.com/index2.html

Please Private Message me if you want to learn more about Islam or have any Questions.

Thank you readers for your time.

Peace be to you.

 

[Michael]

I recently found some nice articles which I wanted to share with the readers of the beauty of Islam and its purity as the true religion.

- The beauty of Islamic sanctioned Slavery as part of Gods will.
- The joy discovered when being able to justify when the Taliban destroyed the most holy Buddhist site in the world.
- The wonder at the betrothment of a 45+ year old man that talks to God to a very young child. (Actually that is really really really creepy if you stop and think about it for a minute, the poor child)
- Marvel at the enlightenment to be found - such as the killing of gays, even if they are your own child.
- Reach the highest state of Grand Hypocrite where you finally realize that Islam should be openly practiced anywhere in the world, but other religions should be banned from doing likewise.

 

[GeoffP]

I recently found some nice articles which I wanted to share with the readers of the beauty of Islam and its purity as the true religion.

I don't know why you feel it your duty to create hatred of Islam or Muslims.

I'm annoyed because you refuse to answer most of the questions directed at you. That makes what you do here propaganda, rather than rational debate.

But perhaps you have a point. I'll start posting more articles here that share the beauty and purity of the true way of secularism and/or Western thought. Perhaps you could - for once yourself - say something nice about the West too.

I wonder at your hesitancy to this point to do so. Fair's fair, you know.

Geoff

 

[GeoffP]

- The beauty of Islamic sanctioned Slavery as part of Gods will.
- The joy discovered when being able to justify when the Taliban destroyed the most holy Buddhist site in the world.
- The wonder at the betrothment of a 45+ year old man that talks to God to a very young child. (Actually that is really really really creepy if you stop and think about it for a minute, the poor child)
- Marvel at the enlightenment to be found - such as the killing of gays, even if they are your own child.
- Reach the highest state of Grand Hypocrite where you finally realize that Islam should be openly practiced anywhere in the world, but other religions should be banned from doing likewise.

Exactly - islam is so great and tolerant - but could you avoid showing any evidence of your filthy religions in public? Thanks so much.

Geoff

 

[Sci-Phenomena]

I think the "real god" has a deep discust for any organized religion, seeing as so many wars have been started because everyone thinks that their right, that they know the "real god." Its this "real god" additude that is going to cause so many wars and has caused many. The "real god" additude is another way that "leaders" divide the masses amongst themselves.... like saying "Ok, I'll teach these ones that allah is the real god, you teach your fellows that Christ is the only real savior, and things are good, you have your mass of mindless people, and I have mine, and if I wake up on the wrong side of the bed, I'll tell my people that allah is angry, and wants them to attack israel." etc etc

Here is what the real god says "Anyone who thinks they know the real god is actually worshipping negativity, since so much chaos has been made by everyone thinking they know the "real god."

The real god is the universe, its the biggest, most powerful god that you can actually see, we should just worship the universe, and be more respectful of all those "real god" people. (so as not to start a conflict with a mindless group of people)

 

[Huwy]

There is a saying:
"You know your god is man made when he hates all the same people you do."

Now I'm not saying that DiamondHearts is hateful, I don't think that at all, DH and most other muslims, and christians, and jews, that i've spoken to seem to be peace valuing people who just want to discuss things.

Some people can become really nasty when they feel threatened: see George Bush, Bin Laden, Israeli Snipers, etc.
Of course it doesn't help having some of the hateful and intolerant things that are written in the religious texts.

 

[Michael]

Also, I do not answer questions that i have answered before

And many you didn't answer before.

what year was the Quran canonized (it wasn't, it was always the same quran and was transmitted by memorization, until it was recorded by Hazrat Usman).

That certainly not true.

Bukhari: vol. 6, hadith 510, pp. 478-479; book 61
Narrated Anas bin Malik:

Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to 'Uthman, "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Quran) ..." So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and 'AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. ..."

Here we see how the problem of having different versions of the Qur'an was fixed. It was fixed by Uthman standardizing one version of the Qur'an and ordering that all others be burnt. Thus even the "seven" variations that Muhammad allowed were removed and so were the other collections made by the other Companions. Thus from now on all oral and written tradition would have to conform to Uthman's version of the Qur'an.


Also note: instead of making up this or that I say to anyone here on this board - you can simply view for yourself the many differerences that have emerged in the Modern Qur'an even since the time of the
Samarqand codex (one of the oldest extant manuscripts of the Qur'an). Its really that easy.

And this says nothing to what happened before the Samarqand codex. That leaves plenty of time for many more variations. As even Uthman understood when he had a bunch of Qur'an material burned to ash.


Michael

 

[Michael]

Also, I know its obvious in the hadith but just to bring home the point that Uthman had control over the final state of the text of the Qur'an.

Mishkat Al-Masabih: book 8, ch. 3, last hadith

Ibn Abbas said he asked Uthman[1] what had induced them to deal with al-Anfal[2] which is one of the mathani[3] and with Bara`a[4] which is one with a hundred verses, joining them without writing the line containing "In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful,"[5] and putting it among the seven long ones. When he asked again what had induced them to do that, Uthman replied, "Over a period suras with numerous verses would come down to God's messenger, and when something came down to him he would call one of those who wrote and tell him to put these verses in the sura in which such and such is mentioned, and when a verse came down he would tell them to put it in the sura in which such and such is mentioned. Now al-Anfal was one of the first to come down in Medina and Bara`a was among the last of the Qur'an to come down, and the subject-matter of the one resembled that of the other, so because God's messenger was taken without having explained to us whether it belonged to it, for that reason I joined them without writing the line containing `In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful,' and put it among the long suras."

Every sura in the Qur'an is introduced by "In the name of God..." except Sura 9.


I think its obvious now?

Michael

 

[DiamondHearts]

And many you didn't answer before.

That certainly not true.

Bukhari: vol. 6, hadith 510, pp. 478-479; book 61
Narrated Anas bin Malik:

Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to 'Uthman, "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Quran) ..." So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and 'AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. ..."

Here we see how the problem of having different versions of the Qur'an was fixed. It was fixed by Uthman standardizing one version of the Qur'an and ordering that all others be burnt. Thus even the "seven" variations that Muhammad allowed were removed and so were the other collections made by the other Companions. Thus from now on all oral and written tradition would have to conform to Uthman's version of the Qur'an.


Also note: instead of making up this or that I say to anyone here on this board - you can simply view for yourself the many differerences that have emerged in the Modern Qur'an even since the time of the
Samarqand codex (one of the oldest extant manuscripts of the Qur'an). Its really that easy.

And this says nothing to what happened before the Samarqand codex. That leaves plenty of time for many more variations. As even Uthman understood when he had a bunch of Qur'an material burned to ash.


Michael

When you imply that the Quran was not the same, you merely speculate. The Quran had been memorized from the life of the dear Prophet (s), and compiled a short time after the Prophet Muhammad (s)'s death (inna lilahi wa inna ilayhi rajioon). The original copies of the Quran still exist and are all similar to the modern copies of the Quran. As i have shown already, your attempts to convince us that the Quran has been changed and that is contains descepancies have been disproved. Your ignorance of the Arabic language handicaps you from convincing us otherwise.

The Quran itself means in Arabic 'The Recitation,' and it is the spoken words which are the pure and holy Quran. The fact that its in a book is just to preserve it and so it can be taught to those who don't have access to a teacher. There are no other versions of the Quran, the Quran is the same among all Muslims.

Also, I know its obvious in the hadith but just to bring home the point that Uthman had control over the final state of the text of the Qur'an.

Mishkat Al-Masabih: book 8, ch. 3, last hadith

Ibn Abbas said he asked Uthman[1] what had induced them to deal with al-Anfal[2] which is one of the mathani[3] and with Bara`a[4] which is one with a hundred verses, joining them without writing the line containing "In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful,"[5] and putting it among the seven long ones. When he asked again what had induced them to do that, Uthman replied, "Over a period suras with numerous verses would come down to God's messenger, and when something came down to him he would call one of those who wrote and tell him to put these verses in the sura in which such and such is mentioned, and when a verse came down he would tell them to put it in the sura in which such and such is mentioned. Now al-Anfal was one of the first to come down in Medina and Bara`a was among the last of the Qur'an to come down, and the subject-matter of the one resembled that of the other, so because God's messenger was taken without having explained to us whether it belonged to it, for that reason I joined them without writing the line containing `In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful,' and put it among the long suras."

Every sura in the Qur'an is introduced by "In the name of God..." except Sura 9.


I think its obvious now?

Michael

From Wikipedia, this summarizes what i was saying.

During the rule of Abu Bakr, the first caliph and successor to Muhammad(pbuh), there was a battle in the Arabian peninsula in which over 70 memorizers of the Qur'an were killed. Umar ibn al-khattab, one of the top companions of Muhammad (pbuh), urged Abu Bakr to compile the Qur'an into one form so that the proper order of the verses and their reading would be preserved. Coincidentally, the new Chinese invention, paper, was just starting to make its way into the Arabian peninsula. Zaid bin Thabit, who was the chief secretary of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in his lifetime, supervised the compilation of the Qur'an, using the newly discovered paper.

Later on, during the rule of the third Muslim caliph, Uthman ibn Affan (ra), as Islam and the Qur'an rapidly spread to lands far and wide, non-Arab converts (reverts) began arguing over the proper way to pronounce the verses of the Qur'an. They even began writing their personal copies incorporating their own variant spellings and pronounciations of the words. The sahabas became quite worried that the Qur'an would become lost in a sea of competing versions unless action was taken. Uthman acted immediately and ordered that the official copy, produced under his predecessor Abu Bakr, be duplicated and one copy sent to each Muslim city. From there, scribes in each city could make further copies, in order to lay to rest all controversies and disagreements. All the faulty copies with misspellings were burned so that only the authentic edition would circulate. If ever a dispute arose over who had correctly copied it, the people could refer to the offical copy within the city for verification.

Two copies of those Uthmani (or Usmani) Qur'ans, as they are called, still exist today. One is in a museum in Turkey, and one in Tashkent.

Your points are mere speculation. Your posts have been revealed to have many fallacies. The Surah At-Taubah does not have bismillah in the beginning due to the fact that Allah swt did not will it to. This has been related by all the major scholars and Sahabah of Islam. If you want to hypothesize, back it up.

 

[marv]

Oh sure, cite Wikipedia for authority...well,...

"Modern day netizens looking for ways to modify historical records to suit their own goals need to look no further than Wikipedia."​

...from Wolf-Howl.

So you say...

...all oral and written tradition would have to conform to Uthman's version of the Qur'an.

...but then say...

...it was always the same quran and was transmitted by memorization,...

Then your argument is that the the Qur'an was tranmitted accurately by memorization. But if that were true, Uthman would not have found it necessary to call in existing copies and burn them...

"Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you."

What say you....?

 

[Huwy]

The same wikipedia cites a number of sources saying that Mohammed's wife Aisha was 6 when he married her (he was 53), and only 9 years old when he first fucked her.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha#Young_marriage_age_controversy

Evidence that Aisha was nine when the marriage was consummated:
These traditions are from the hadith collections of Bukhari (d. 870) and Muslim b. al-Hajjaj (d. 875). These two collections are in general regarded as the most authentic by Sunni Muslims. This tradition is also found in Abu Dawud and Tabari.

Narrated 'Aisha: The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). 5:58:234
Narrated 'Aisha: "I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) 8:73:151
Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death). 7:62:64 7:62:65 7:62:88 5:58:236
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She took hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have share in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah's Messenger (, may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him. 8:3309
'Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old. 8:3310
Similar hadith are to be found in Abu Dawud. A version of this tradition can also be found in Tabari:

"Then the men and women got up and left. The Messenger of God consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old. Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me"......(The Prophet) married her three years before the Emigration, when she was seven years old and consummated the marriage when she was nine years old, after he had emigrated to Medina in Shawwal. She was eighteen years old when he died. (Tabari, Volume 9, p. 131, in the SUNY edition)
[edit]
Claims that Aisha was pubescent at nine years of age
Supporters of the hadith say that of course it is possible that girls are pubescent at nine, and adduce Islamic traditions alleging that girls as young as nine gave birth [2], [3], [4]., [5]. They claim that girls matured early in desert climates.

They point to traditions in other cultures allowing, or even encouraging, marriage at young ages. They insist that it is unfair to single out Muhammad in this regard, as if he were doing something shocking. None of the people of his time, or indeed for many centuries later, found anything shocking in his marriage to Aisha. They indignantly point to all of Muhammad's other marriages, to widows or divorcees who were in many cases older than he was, as proof that he could not have been a pedophile.


Claims that Aisha was pre-pubescent at nine years of age:

Many contemporary critics of Islam claim that Aisha was pre-pubescent and that Muhammad was engaging in child abuse and pedophilia in marrying her. See [6], [], [7], [8], [9]. Some critics have even accused Muhammad of showing sexual interest in other children [10], thus underlining the claim that he was a pedophile.

 

[Michael]

The oldest existing copy of the full text is from the 9th century From:The Holy Qur'an

Here's some more information from wikipedia: Origin and development of the Qur'an

When you imply that the Quran was not the same, you merely speculate.

ＤＨ, you quoted hadith so I must assume you accept its validity. I’ll reprint in case you missed it.

Mishkat Al-Masabih: book 8, ch. 3, last hadith

Ibn Abbas said he asked Uthman[1] what had induced them to deal with al-Anfal[2] which is one of the mathani[3] and with Bara`a[4] which is one with a hundred verses, joining them without writing the line containing "In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful,"[5] and putting it among the seven long ones. When he asked again what had induced them to do that, Uthman replied, "Over a period suras with numerous verses would come down to God's messenger, and when something came down to him he would call one of those who wrote and tell him to put these verses in the sura in which such and such is mentioned, and when a verse came down he would tell them to put it in the sura in which such and such is mentioned. Now al-Anfal was one of the first to come down in Medina and Bara`a was among the last of the Qur'an to come down, and the subject-matter of the one resembled that of the other, so because God's messenger was taken without having explained to us whether it belonged to it, for that reason I joined them without writing the line containing `In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful,' and put it among the long suras."

 

[DiamondHearts]

I merely presented the Islamic view of the matter which is found in the quote I presented from wikipedia.com. Your view of our history bears major fallacies. Don't you find it odd that we would dissagree with you? Obviously this in itself lowers the standing of your speculation. However when the great scholars of Islam like Hazrat Zaid bin Thabit (as), Imam Taymiyah, Imam Maududi, and many others have presented factual basis of this history, you who is not knowledgeable of Islam or its history cannot understand it and hence will be biased in your approah to anyhting Islamic.

Peace.

 

[(Q)]

Diamondhearts

You personally cannot decide what is history and what is not. Other people than yourself have access to historic information.

And it is blatantly clear that whatever conflicts with your personal beliefs appears to be fallacious and invalid.

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Deal with it.

 

[usp8riot]

Force it on the DH, force it on them. Atleast you can try to reason with us why you believe in the moral codes of Islam rather than quoting text. The text is there and we can read it, but give us what we can't find in Islam, why the moral code of Islam is correct. At least Jesus spoke in parables to give us a partly logical explanation of his moral code. Why is it Muhammed committed pedophilia and how is it not disgusting? Same with murder. You will always be sheep of others if you never question things things and you make others view your prophet as hateful in some aspects if you don't clarify. I myself am not interested as much but other people are very interested. I've come to the conclusion that NO human is perfect, even the prophets. And you also find yourself more forgiving of others when you know no one is perfect. If I have no logical explanation for what I believe, I won't stand up for it. If you truly can't explain and test yourself why you believe what you believe, then you could possibly be expending falsities on others. Meaning you don't care what others believe or yourself. Everything must be tested DH, everything. A man's word is better not said than if it isn't tested. A man's words can damn him or save him. If you are climbing a mountain, would you rather not save 15 minutes to test your rope out than to jump right in and not be sure if the rope can save you when needed? Woe to the man that is a sheep to another. He will follow blindly and never know if the sheep he is following is indeed guided by the shephard unless he steps up to the hurd and sees for himself. Without testing, the sheep would never know if the other is just a wolf in sheep's clothing meant to lead him astray and later devour him. You must always test. For the good of the self and others so as to keep the wolf out of the hurd. Test as if your life and others were dependent on it.

 

[Carcano]

Why is it Muhammed committed pedophilia and how is it not disgusting?

Yes, but its not like Muhammed was doing something deviant within the context of his own culture.

Marrying very young girls, having many wives and owning slaves was very common in Arabic society.