THE REAL [GOD] = ALLAH ...... join here you all need to know

[DiamondHearts]

My firm belief is that the ideals of Islam will win the hearts of the people, many who dislike materialism and capitalism to embrace the Islamic system of justice.

We will just have to see in the future, who will be successful. You believe your ideology, I will believe mine. We will see who is right in the end.

Some posters think I called for killing people (leo), and I didn't say any such thing. I said only that those who insult Islam will be at war with Allah (swt). Allah will deal with them Himself. That's all I said. Don't put words into my mouth.

 

[leopold]

Some posters think I called for killing people (leo), and I didn't say any such thing. I said only that those who insult Islam will be at war with Allah (swt). Allah will deal with them Himself. That's all I said. Don't put words into my mouth.

i must have misunderstood you, my bad

but you must agree that killing people just because they offend or insult is not justice

 

[DiamondHearts]

i agree with you

 

[Michael]

We will just have to see in the future, who will be successful. You believe your ideology, I will believe mine. We will see who is right in the end.

After 1400 years Islamic countries were still practicing Slavery? Why? Why does the Qur`an uphold this vile practice?

My firm belief is that the ideals of Islam will win the hearts of the people, many who dislike materialism and capitalism to embrace the Islamic system of justice.

DO you think that you’d think differently if you were a slave in Islamic Arabia?

Hell, even the Atheist Chinese banned the practice of Slavery in Islamic China - in less than 10 years no doubt. Obviously it should have been be a synch for Gods very own messenger. But he didn’t do that? I wonder why? Maybe because at that time Slaves were property and Slavery was Materialism?

Michael

 

[GeoffP]

i agree with you

How can you agree that killing people who insult islam is not justice, but think that apostates should be murdered.

Are you mad, or dense?

Geoff

 

[Godless]

My firm belief is that the ideals of Islam will win the hearts of the people, many who dislike materialism and capitalism to embrace the Islamic system of justice.

Dispose of your computer, it's against Islam to own such a thing. Its materialism, created by Capitalism. Without capitalism, you wouldn't have the technology capability to spout your BS here. Without Materialism the computer wouldn't exist Period! :bugeye:

And btw, Islam opened these people's eyes, their hearts were not won, they were enlightened, they embrased reality.
Apostates of Islam

click

My firm belief is that people with common sense will leave Islam in droves, specially those who rather live in the west!.

News article

Apostasy in Islam

Islamic Apostates' Tales

Yep! seems to me that already many people are grasping of having common sense. When are you going to realize that your attempt here is futile?

Godless

 

[duendy]

GREAT, Godless. i a onnamake a note of tis post, so as i may suggest it to any troublesme Muslims, and/or those who are questioning their faith

i have read a coupl of thelinks and will read more.

there tho is just one very crucia thing which i will brielfly mention here for now and will maybe bring up at te Apostate site which is........when wsa person gives un an oppressie religion, and embrace humanism and/or science. do they then STOP examining the failings of tose mindsts....?
for believe me tere are many faults with them.

for a start they are reactions TO oppressve patriarchal religion. and likepatriarchal religious indoctrinaton prohibit entheogenic ecstatic exploration

so, i am saying, pointing out, this prohibition is BOTH shared by patriarchao religion and humanistic science!

THIS is crucial to explore, and i intend to point this out and encourage its exploration whenever i can

 

[Sock puppet path]

Islamic justice you better not flinch when watching this DH because it is what you subscribe to

stoning

cutting the hands and feet

I strongly advise non-muslims or muslims who do not subscribe to shariah justice to NOT watch this (it can damage your faith in humanity).

 

[Godless]

Cool song, come on infedels listen in

islam is not for me

Says it all, and even sings it. By who else? former known Islamist of course my source and inspiration that humanity may still have a chance.

Godless

 

[DiamondHearts]

After 1400 years Islamic countries were still practicing Slavery? Why? Why does the Qur`an uphold this vile practice?

DO you think that you’d think differently if you were a slave in Islamic Arabia?

Hell, even the Atheist Chinese banned the practice of Slavery in Islamic China - in less than 10 years no doubt. Obviously it should have been be a synch for Gods very own messenger. But he didn’t do that? I wonder why? Maybe because at that time Slaves were property and Slavery was Materialism?

Michael

Islam discourages slavery as is told to us in the seerah of Rasulullah (s) that he who treats his slave like himself or better and frees him, will obtain Paradise. Freeing a slave is a virtuos act and highly loved by Allah (s). Infact, a large amount of early Muslims were former slaves and descendants of slaves including hazrat Bilal, hazrat Sumayah, hazrat Ammar (peace be upon them all), so forth.

For many acts in Islam, it is encouraged that slaves be freed to compensate for not having the ability to do certain actions. Certainly Islam only allowed one form of slavery which is prisoners of war and later even banned the practice of civilian slavery. Prisoners of war would be allowed freedom if they taught 10 people to read and write, and if they promised not to engage in a war against the Muslims. Also, conversion of Islam would free prisoners of war. There were special cases where people were freed due to a plea which showed they had no ill will and were either coerced to fight or dragged into it not of their will. The Muslims were merciful to all people. Islam was the first religion in Arabia and indeed the entire modern Islamic world which preached to others of the brotherhood and equality of men, black, white, or brown.

Slavery does not exist in Islamic countries today and was formally banned many centuries ago. The prisoners of war is the only slave-like practice which is practiced by all nations, even the West.

"The Prophet said, "Give food to the hungry, pay a visit to the sick and release (set free) the one in captivity (by paying his ransom)." (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Food, Meals, Volume 7, Book 65, Number 286)"

Peace.

 

[Michael]

Islam discourages slavery

DiamondHearts, you are not answering my question. Which was:　
After 1400 years Islamic countries were still practicing Slavery, Why?

Why does the Qur’an uphold this vile practice?

Do YOU DiamondHearts think that Slavery is OK if done in an Islamic manner?
YES or NO?

There are a few people alive today that can remember slavery in Turkey. It was outlawed by the Europeans not the Muslims. Muslim Kurds were routinely employed by the ruling Turks to sell Muslim Arabs in Arabia! That is common History, any Turk should be able to tell you that much.

If the Qur’an were so enlightening then one would have thought that the Muslims would have banned Slavery at some point in over 1000 year?

But that did NOT happen. Did It? No it did not. We both know as a fact that Muslims continued to sell humans for profit. That is not inj question. Yes Muslims could and be perfectly at peace with the knowledge they were obeying Gods Laws in the Qur`an AND selling people. No that is not in Question. The question invoves the inspiration from the Qur`an.

Can we AGREE that History shows that the Qur’an was not inspirational enough to stop the practice of Slavery in over 1000 years in the ME?

YES or NO


Michael

 

[(Q)]

For many acts in Islam, it is encouraged that slaves be freed to compensate for not having the ability to do certain actions. Certainly Islam only allowed one form of slavery which is prisoners of war and later even banned the practice of civilian slavery.

Islam institutionalized slavery.

 

[Sock puppet path]

More islamic beauty in this day and age

Afghan who converted to Christianity faces death penalty


"The scholar had said in his book Kifayatul-Akhyar that a person who had left the Muslim faith should be asked to repent three times and if he did not, he should be killed, his body cannot be bathed according to Muslim rites, prayers cannot be performed for him and he cannot be buried in a Muslim cemetery. "

 

[DiamondHearts]

After 1400 years Islamic countries were still practicing Slavery, Why?

Islamic countries have not practiced slavery for centuries. Many of the Muslims themselves during the Porphet's (s) were former slaves and most loved by the Prophet (s). Slavery was formally banned in Islamic countries centuries ago, except the act of prisoners of war. I have explained that already.

If you think Muslims still practice slavery, bring me proof.

It was the West that enslaved millions of African Muslims and Pagans brothers to work for their colonies, not Muslims. The west does not become more holy by trying to avert blame to someone else. The west still practices slavery in the form of prostitution which is common in almost all western nations, and missing in the noble Islamic nations.

Why does the Qur’an uphold this vile practice?

O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other. Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well-acquainted. (The Noble Quran, 49:13)"

2:177 "It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness to believe in God and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the God-fearing."

Narrated Al-Ma'rur: "At Ar-Rabadha I met Abu Dhar who was wearing a cloak, and his slave, too, was wearing a similar one. I asked about the reason for it. He replied, "I abused a person by calling his mother with bad names." The Prophet said to me, 'O Abu Dhar! Did you abuse him by calling his mother with bad names You still have some characteristics of ignorance. Your slaves are your brothers and Allah has put them under your command. So whoever has a brother under his command should feed him of what he eats and dress him of what he wears. Do not ask them (slaves) to do things beyond their capacity (power) and if you do so, then help them.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Belief, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 29)"

http://answering-christianity.com/equality.htm

Do YOU DiamondHearts think that Slavery is OK if done in an Islamic manner?
YES or NO?

Slavery is not ok, unless it is prisoner of war and the Islamic way of dealing with this is completely just.

There are a few people alive today that can remember slavery in Turkey. It was outlawed by the Europeans not the Muslims. Muslim Kurds were routinely employed by the ruling Turks to sell Muslim Arabs in Arabia! That is common History, any Turk should be able to tell you that much.

Obviously, you know little to no history of Turce or Kurdistan. Or Pakistan for that matter.

If the Qur’an were so enlightening then one would have thought that the Muslims would have banned Slavery at some point in over 1000 year?

Slavery was banned except the prisoners of war by Muslims before the Europeans. The Europeans abused and mistreated many, while the Muslims had already freed their slaves and indeed allowed them rights like earning money and became paid servants, not slaves. Islam encourages the ending of slavery, and Muslims scholars agree to this. It is only ignorant fools among Westerners who still dispute about this. One of the best acts in Islam is to free a slave, and support him to build a new life. The Prophet Muhammad (s) freed many slaves and encouraged their liberation.

But that did NOT happen. Did It? No it did not. We both know as a fact that Muslims continued to sell humans for profit. That is not inj question. Yes Muslims could and be perfectly at peace with the knowledge they were obeying Gods Laws in the Qur`an AND selling people. No that is not in Question. The question invoves the inspiration from the Qur`an.

"it is righteousness ... to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves ..." Quran 2:177

Can we AGREE that History shows that the Qur’an was not inspirational enough to stop the practice of Slavery in over 1000 years in the ME?

YES or NO


Michael

No, I cannot agree with any of your lies and deceit about Islam and Islamic culture. You have no authority to talk about Islam or any Muslims.

It is very dishonorable for people to speak of things they know nothing about, and yet continue to present lies as fact to others. Do you have no shame?

Peace.

 

[Hapsburg]

After 1400 years Islamic countries were still practicing Slavery, Why?

Cost effeciency?

Just playing devil's advocate for mo'...

 

[Godless]

**ABUSES OF SLAVES IN MODERN ISLAM TODAY



Muhammad did say that slaves should be treated fairly. But they were still a Muslim's property. Just as abuses occurred under Christianity, so too, many abuses occurred, and still occur under Islam. The difference between the two is that Islam ordains the taking of slaves during war, thus perpetuating slavery. Christianity does not. In slavery's perpetual existence, Islam has seen great abuses of slaves.



Everyone knows about the abuses of slaves in the new world. What do you know about the abuses of slaves under Islam? I found two very good books on slavery and Islam.



1) "Slavery and Muslim Society in Africa", by Allan Fisher, pub in 1971, and



2) "The Slave Trade Today" by Sean O'Callaghan, pub in 1961.**
click

African American Registry

Salon.com

FrontPage magazine

Social Action

Moreover, liberals blinded to Islamic fundamentalist imperialism's evil are whitewashing slavery's history in Islamic empires as "not as bad as the Atlantic slave trade." Slavery in Islamic empires for centuries involved castration of men guarding harems and religious sanction for masters to sleep with slave-girls, a practice that persists today in Sudan openly and covertly in Saudi Arabia as concubinage

click

Oh! let me guess, all these people are liars, they are jews, westerners, etc..Riiiiggght!.



Godless

 

[Michael]

Slavery was formally banned in Islamic countries centuries ago, except the act of prisoners of war. I have explained that already.

No you haven’t and also why not back it up with some sort of reference.

Do you agree that for over 1000 years of Islam in the ME that Slavery still existed?
YES or NO?

Some parts of Africa and much of the Islamic world retained slavery at the end of World War I. For this reason the League of Nations and later the United Nations took the final extinction of slavery to be one of their obligations. The league had considerable success in Africa, with the assistance of the colonial powers, and by the late 1930s slavery was abolished in Liberia and Ethiopia. After World War II the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the European Convention of Human Rights proclaimed the immorality and the illegality of slavery. Slavery was abolished in most Islamic countries, although it persisted in Saudi Arabia into the 1960s. It finally was made illegal in the Arabian Peninsula in 1962. It is probable that slavery no longer exists as a legal phenomenon recognized by a political authority or government any place in the world

And I don’t care if it was a nicer form of slavery? That’s sick! What? You want to be a Slave?

That’s asinine!

Would you like to own a slave? Well YES or NO?
Would you?

Here’s history lesson #2 for all the good it will do. You’ll just close your ears and lalalalalalalalalaa and make up something or other to justify why Islam didn’t abolish slavery in 1400 years. And again, I don’t care if it was a nice form of slavery. Slavery is wrong and sick and anyone or thing that supports it is wrong and sick.

Along with Yemen, the Saudis abolished slavery in 1962.

In 1857, again under British pressure, a second ferman was issued banning trafficking in black slaves throughout the Ottoman Empire, with special exception for the Hijaz.

The Bey of Tunis announced in 1846 that every black slave who asked for it would receive a "deed of enfranchisement."

In 1992 The Pakistan National Assembly enacts the Bonded Labor Act, which abolishes indentured servitude and the peshgi (bonded money) system.

In a BBC profile (June 10, '04) of the hundreds of Black Africans who have been raped by pro-government Janjaweed Arab militia, one victim described the attackers: "They called me Abeid (slave in Arabic)." A UN resolution on the Sudan crisis was blocked by China and the two Muslim nations with Security Council seats - Pakistan and Algeria.

Yup Pakistan and their Atheist Chinese buddies at it again.
How sweet.

If you think Muslims still practice slavery, bring me proof.

I didn’t say that. I said, In 1400 years of living under Islam, Muslims didn’t ban Slavery. It was the Europeans that did that.

It was the West that enslaved millions of African ….

Yes I agree,

But again that isn’t my point.

I said, In 1400 years of living under Islam, Muslims didn’t ban Slavery. It was the Europeans that did that. Obviously the Qur’an was not inspirational enough to stir in people the wherewithal to ban slavery. How do I know that? Because the Muslims were still practicing Slavery when they were conquered by the Europeans.

Slavery is not ok, unless ……..

?!?!?!?!? Unless the Qur`an says its OK then its OK huh?

Do you want to be a Slave? Are you going to be happy being a Hindu’s Slave should India bitch slap Pakistan back to …. … to the …. …. hmmmmm

Anyway, you’re obviously not going to be happy be a Slave. Why? Because slavery is Evil.

Islam encourages the ending of slavery, and Muslims scholars agree to this.

Yeah, and humans were still being sold on the open market in Muslim countries after 1000 years of Islam. Muslim scholars agree to this.

So much for that line.

DiamondHearts, answer me this one question.
Are ALL forms of Slavery Evil?
YES
or
NO

Michael

PS: you don’t think prostitution occures in Islamic countries?!?!?!?!

…….right….

 

[Michael]

Islam encourages the ending of slavery, and Muslims scholars agree to this. It is only ignorant fools among Westerners who still dispute about this. One of the best acts in Islam is to free a slave,

It is also noted that as the slaves get too old to perform service or sexually satisfy their masters, their masters 'manumits' the slaves. Now, aged, worn out, they are put out on the streets to fend for themselves. These ex-slaves are left to fend for themselves. Their former owner has committed a great, righteousness act in freeing a slave! He gets rid of the burdensome slave, and gets a bonus in heaven.

Slavery is Sick

Michael

 

[(Q)]

If you think Muslims still practice slavery, bring me proof.

Slavery is ... completely just.

There's your proof, you said it yourself.

 

[DiamondHearts]

Slavery is not ok, unless it is prisoner of war and the Islamic way of dealing with this is completely just.

Does the West practice this form of slavery? I was saying this is the only slavery practiced in Islam and has been in Islamic history.

It is also noted that as the slaves get too old to perform service or sexually satisfy their masters, their masters 'manumits' the slaves. Now, aged, worn out, they are put out on the streets to fend for themselves. These ex-slaves are left to fend for themselves. Their former owner has committed a great, righteousness act in freeing a slave! He gets rid of the burdensome slave, and gets a bonus in heaven.

No basis in any proof. Muslims who free slaves are suppossed to provide for the slaves after freeing them to find work and gain status. If a man wants to marry a slave, he must free her, then marry her. She will be a normal person afterwards.

Slavery is Sick

Michael

Indeed, the reason why Islam encourages the freeing and ending of slaves.

It is worth noting that unlike in Western countries, ex-slaves became sultans, wazirs, generals, and judges in Islamic history. Ever heard of the Mamluke Empire which were ex-slaves of war who became the rulers of Egypt. Islam's equality and perfect justice guarantees the exact same rights for black, white, and brown, without any prejudice or racism like the west.

Islam is the perfect and most just system in the world. The justice in islam cannot be rivals by any other system, especially a system like capitalism based on sucking wealth form the poor and a history of enslaving and exterminating entire races of human beings.

Peace.