the Quran On The SCIENCE of the UNIVERSE!!!!

what the hell is the point of posting all of that igor, if you want to argue about these contradictions then copy and paste what you just wrote on the religious forum and i will be happy to answer it as i already know the anwer to all of those verses.

anyway, context, thewy are creation stories of the universe this is not about the universe as the universe was already created. anywaym what the hell is the point of talking about context when the word used does not even mean universe. that arabic word can not even mean universe anyway. you think just beacsue the English langauge you can say heaven for sky and universe it is the same with arabic. well not in this particular word. the only thing it can mean is SKY and it cannot mean universe just as a word such as "cheese" cannot mean "oranges". the only reason the word says "heavens" beacuse the Arabic word used is the poshest and most poetic way of saying sky and a word like that does not exsist in English, but the closest word that can be used is heavens.

all those translators that used, please look at the commentry on the translation on each book.

anyway, now let me go look for an Arabic dictionary or website so i can blank you out even more. ill post the stuff tommorow. also i have emailed various arabic websites and translators and will post the relpies when i get them

just admit your wrong igor.

anyway, just to make you happy:

“It is He who created everything one earth for you and then directed his attention, to the SKY and arranged it into seven regular heavens, He has knowledge of all things. (Quran, 2:26)
 
Preacher_X said:
what the hell is the point of posting all of that igor, if you want to argue about these contradictions then copy and paste what you just wrote on the religious forum and i will be happy to answer it as i already know the anwer to all of those verses.
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PX.
You said that the universe was created before the earth but 41:9 only mentions the heavens, which suggest that the heavens are the universe. Can you please give me one reference for the universe being created first.

anyway, context, thewy are creation stories of the universe this is not about the universe as the universe was already created. anywaym what the hell is the point of talking about context when the word used does not even mean universe. that arabic word can not even mean universe anyway. you think just beacsue the English langauge you can say heaven for sky and universe it is the same with arabic. well not in this particular word. the only thing it can mean is SKY and it cannot mean universe just as a word such as "cheese" cannot mean "oranges". the only reason the word says "heavens" beacuse the Arabic word used is the poshest and most poetic way of saying sky and a word like that does not exsist in English, but the closest word that can be used is heavens.
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You have already said “the arabic word for heaven has 2 meanings, Sky and Universe and it depends in which way the sentence is said and the surronding text that implies if the word means sky or universe,”

So it’s all about context.

“It is He who created everything one earth for you and then directed his attention, to the SKY and arranged it into seven regular HEAVENS, He has knowledge of all things. (Quran, 2:29 (not 2:26) )

Khalifa 2:29“ He is the One who created for you everything on earth, then turned to the SKY and perfected seven UNIVERSES therein,* and He is fully aware of all things.”

So god created everything on the earth. Then he created seven Heavens in the Sky. I’m presuming the word Heaven here is the same or has the same meaning as for the seven heavens of the universe as you haven’t argued against this.

This makes fourteen heavens.

So it comes down to the interpretation of the word Sky.

The word Sky refers to that blue dome above our heads, but not the air (all scholars at that time thought the universe was filled with air).
The term Night Sky meant the stars, which people believed where just a few miles above our heads.

The Sky is thus miles above the earth.

So seven Heavens in the Sky can mean the same as seven Heavens around the earth.

The people of that time thought the whole universe was relatively small. Seven heavens of whatever type would fill it.

When interpreting the Quran you cannot just compare it to modern ideas, you have to understand just what the people of the time believed. If the Quran works for those beliefs then that is probably the correct interpretation.
 
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PX thanks for this thread. Do/did you ever study any science at all ? ever ? Do you really expect me to belive your koran is really a science book as well as fairy tales ?You really do put your foot in it. Its fun to see a mental pigmy trying to argue with some of the interlectual collosuses here. Thanks for the laugh! :D
 
The number of layers in the atmosphere is either four or five, depending on if you want to include the Exosphere and are defined by sharp temperature changes.

Troposphere-Stratosphere-Mesosphere-Thermosphere
Troposphere-Stratosphere-Mesosphere-Thermosphere-Exosphere

The Ozone layer straddles the Stratosphere and Mesosphere and is defined by the small amount of Ozone (O3) in the air.

The Ionosphere straddles the Mesosphere and Thermosphere and is defined by the ionisation of the air. Its height also varies greatly between night and day.

Because the Ozone layer and Ionosphere cross the other layers, they cannot be considered separate and so cannot be considered separate from the main layers.

There are also the three boundary layers which are possibly deep enough to be included.

The result is that the number of layers is open to interpretation.


http://cseligman.com/text/planets/atmosstructure.htm
 
yes but the other layers are part of the 4 main layers which creates a total of 7 layers. thats why Nasa's space shuttle (and monotiring sattelites) have to be designed for al 7 layers and not the 4/5
 
There are other layers which are part of the 7 layers which create a total of 634 layers. Or 781 layers. Or 1325 layers. Or whatever number you like.
 
yes but 7 layers with a distinct difference in either temperature, gas content or propities.

in other words they are called different layers beacasue the have have different temps from each other and are made up of different gases, they also have a different function and are distinactly seperate.

the 1325 or whatver you say are just smaller diviosn between the main ones that aren't physically different layers.

it is accpeted that there are 4 (or to some 5) main layers with 7 full layers (that are differen) all others are man made layers.
 
If the Quran had said 6!

The ionosphere doesn't count, all it is, is the the parts of the exosphere and thermosphere that are currently being ionized which various greatly.

And if the Quran had said 5!

There are only 5 MAIN layers, the ozone layer doesn't even lay on or between anything, 90% of it is the the stratosphere, what kind of layer is that anyways?

And if the Quran had said 4!

The exosphere doesn't count as a layer at all, it's so thin that it practically doesn't exist. Many charts only show 4 layers, the only ones that show 5 have a space shuttle in the furthest one, they're clearly in outer space. Sometimes, even the unlaying ozone layer is even written down as a layer instead of the exosphere.

And if the Quran had said 3!

The mesopause is just some man-made layer that was created to seperate the thermosphere and stratosphere, which are real layers. The word Mesosphere is formed from the two Greek words sphaira which means ball and meso which means in between. People probably just wanted to add an extra layer just like the exosphere, so they made the inbetweensphere.

And if the Quran had said 2!

The troposphere and stratosphere combined contain 99% of the total mass of the atmosphere! That's right, 99%! More than 99% of the total atmospheric mass is concentrated in the first 40 km from Earth's surface! The troposphere alone contains 99% of the water in the Earth's atmosphere! And the stratosphere contains atleast 90% of the ozone molecules present in the atmosphere, which protect us! The other layers are so thin that they're closer to being a vacuum than a layer of the atmosphere.

And if the Quran had said 1!

Layers are all man-made. When the Quran said that we were protected by a layer, it obviously meant a layer of gas, which is what the atmosphere is, one big layer of gas that covers the entire planet! How did they know that this gaseous layer that covers the planet protects them?

And if the Quran had said 11!

There may only be 5 main layers, but there is also the ionsphere and ozone layer. And then there is the tropopause, stratopause, mesopause, and then thermopause, that makes a total of 11 layers!
 
saith all seven layers have different densities, functions and temperatures, go back on the Nasa link that YOU provided and read it properly.

and the extra layers you stated are the name for the combined layers. just like Europe when combined is Europe but is made up of many different countries.

like i said go back and read the link that you provided.
 
Preacher_X said:
saith all seven layers have different densities, functions and temperatures, go back on the Nasa link that YOU provided and read it properly.
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Heh, same old replies. Look, I don't know who this guy is, who is telling you that the seven layers don't differ from each other, but it's not me and I haven't seen him anywhere. But I'll be sure to read the NASA link properly though, and study the atmosphere more or whatever.

BTW: What is the function of the ionosphere, I thought it was defined as what was happening to the exosphere and ionsphere currently, not by what they were doing. And uhm... temperature and density differ on average from every inch, foot, and mile of atmosphere. I don't see what that has to do with it having 7 layers.

Preacher_X said:
and the extra layers you stated are the name for the combined layers. just like Europe when combined is Europe but is made up of many different countries.
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No actually, that would be the lower, upper, and middle atmosphere. Hmmm..... yet another reason why there is really only 3 layers!
 
to our preacher:

In what way is the quran scientific btw?

The bible mentions that besides man there is also woman. That must then also be a scientific fact according to your standards.

What am I trying to say: you don't seem to know what science is.
 
Science and religion and two very diffrent things and do not need to conflict. yes many time science does do away with creation myths and stories, but science cannot disprove theological consepts such as gods and spirits.
 
ya knoe y'all are goin on about heaven and sky crap. px is sayin that heaven is posh for sky in arabic, well, in english, it is the same case.

what does 'the heavens opened' mean? it means it started to rain!!!!!
so, even in english, heavn is a posh word for sky
 
Just go to the religion section "quran and science" is addressed there (where it belongs)
 
what does 'the heavens opened' mean? it means it started to rain!!!!!
so, even in english, heavn is a posh word for sky
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Many years ago it was believed the sky was the location of heaven, now we've ventured outside our atmosphere heaven has become accepted as a spiritual place instead of a literal place, thats why 'the heavens opened' is still used by the ignorant, i mean posh, the rest of us just say its pissing down with rain.
 
THIS IS A REPLY TO ALL YOUR MESSAGES ABOVE.

The Quran has a large number of scientific facts that would have been virtually impossible for a human to discover at the time of its writing. These scientific facts have only been discovered very recently. Therefore it stands to reason that any attempt to prove that the Quran is not the word of Almighty God Allah, is futile because it's simply not true. Here are a few examples of the scientific facts in the Quran, and how they are backed up by leading experts in their study....

CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE
1) "Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke...(The Noble Quran, 41:11)"
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....clearly indicates that, at one point in time, the whole universe was nothing but a cloud of smoke (i.e. an opaque highly dense and hot gaseous composition). The First Three Minutes, a modern view of the origin of the universe'' Steven Weinberg pp 94-)

2) Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then we separated them (Koran 21:30)

"Our universe may once have been squeezed to a single point, but EVERYONE whether on Earth, or Andromeda, or even on the galaxies remotest from us can EQUALLY claim to have started from that point..." Martin Rees, Master of Trinity College Cambridge (Our Cosmic Habitat (2001) (Rees, page 55) .

3) "We created the univese with our force and we are expanding it"
The Holy Quran, Zariyat: 47
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Stephen W. Hawking Lucasian Professor of mathematics, Gonville and Caius College, Cambridge says: "Founding that the universe's expanding is the biggest idea revolution in 20. century. It is not able to think why no one had thought this when we look from now to past.. Newton could find this when he found the static univese's gravity effect." No one thought it but it has been in the Quran for 1400 years.

In 1924, Edwin Hubble started to calculate the length between Earth and other stars.. He passed the star lights through a spectrum. He saw that every star has different colors. Then he calculated the length by using the red tones. And he found that the stars were going away from us!!.. Really, Science accepting that if a star has red tones in the spectrum light, it is going away from us.. Today, all Scientists are accepting that proved truth..

4) "The Day that We roll up the heavens like a scroll rolled up for books (completed),- even as We produced the first creation, so shall We produce a new one: a promise We have undertaken: truly shall We fulfil it. (The Noble Quran, 21:104)"
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Stephen Hawkings agrees with this through his theorey of the Big Crunch.

BLACK HOLES

The Koran is aware of the phenomenon of "black holes", stars that have collapsed under their intense gravitational field, so that even light cannot escape.

I swear by the sky and (the phenomena of) Tariq.
And what will explain to you what Tariq is?
It is a star that pierces (or makes a hole). (Koran 86:1-3)
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The Koran uses the word Thaqib in Arabic, a word that literally signifies a puncture or a minute hole

"Space is already being punctured by the formation of black holes..."
Martin Rees, Master of Trinity College Cambridge (Our Cosmic Habitat (2001) (Rees, page 120)

STRING THEOREY
"By the sky with all its weavings/knittings (huu-buk)" (Koran 51:7) .
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"According to our present concepts, empty space is anything but simple..., and on an even tinier scale, it may be a seething tangle of strings." Martin Rees, Master of Trinity College Cambridge (Our Cosmic Habitat (2001) (Rees, page 107)

"...space may be 'woven' from a network of loops,...just like a piece of cloth is 'woven' from a network of threads."(Smolin, page 186)

Space having "weavings" ties in with String Theory in physics. It is envisioned by scientists that at the smallest Planck Scale (10^-35 m), space-time is indeed "weaved" or "knitted".

"...space may be 'woven' from a network of loops,...just like a piece of cloth is 'woven' from a network of threads." Physicist Lee Smolin (Three Roads to Quantum Gravity(2001) )

The physicist Paul Davies in his book, The Edge of Infinity (1981), terms it, "One of the great scientific discoveries of the twentieth century"

MOONLIGHT
By the Sun and its brightness
And by the moon when it imitates it (i.e. reflects that brightness)
And by the day which reveals it.
By the night which conceals it." (Koran 91:1-4)

ORBITS
"Oath to the universe (all things in it) which is going and revolving"
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And we know that from atoms to the galaxies, everything in the universe are revolving.

OZONE LAYER
We made the sky a preserved and protected roof, yet the still turn away from our signs. (Quran, 21:32)


Consider yourself living in 7th Century Arabia:

Society has very little scientific knowledge. Bedouin tribalism is the "dominant feature" of the population (The Arabs in History , Bernard Lewis (1958), page 23). This mostly desolate area in which you live, is an "oral" culture, with a "nomadic" lifestyle. Very few people know how to read, even fewer know how to write. Myth and magic controls people's thoughts and guides their rituals. Trade routes to the north (and the resulting contact with the major Empires) has very recently been restored, after two centuries of decline and deterioration (The Middle East: A Brief History of the Last 2,000 Years , Bernard Lewis, 1995). How far would you go if you wanted to discover the true origin of the universe? How much progress would you make if you wanted to uncover the origin of life?

We can move away from Arabia and scan the world scene at that period in history. Nothing in the literature of the world, including the literature of the ancient Greeks, comes even remotely close to the accuracy of statements, without error, about the natural world, contained in the Koran. In fact some of the information that we come across in the Koran was not known until about 40 years back and some of it was not known until the day it was read in the Koran by scientists just a few years ago. I invite you to take some time and join me in this fantastic adventure....


And if you still have doubts, the Koran has forseen this too;

Even if We opened out to them a gate from heaven, and they were to continue (all day) ascending therein, They would only say: "Our eyes have been intoxicated: Nay, we have been bewitched by sorcery (15:14-15)
 
Why the hell does this lame thread keep getting ressurected?

Why do Muslims insist that their religion must marry science?

Why do I bother asking questions that have no answer?

Will this thread ever be locked?

Lock this thread.

Please.
 
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