the Quran On The SCIENCE of the UNIVERSE!!!!

[Saith]

X rays are blocked out by the atmosphere and reach only 90 miles above the earths surface and Ultra violet rays reach 60 miles above the surface.

What causes sunburn?

excessive heat from the sun and also harmful rays.

like i said james just study a bit.

oh God! can you please study that James

That's just too funny. Preacher X doesn't even know what causes sunburns and he's actually telling James to study more about the atmosphere.

Since ultraviolet light doesn't reach the Earth's surface we better stop buying all that sunscreen that blocks us from ultraviolet rays and start buying the kind that blocks us from the "excessive heat" that is mysteriously causing sunburns and the "harmful rays" that aren't UV.

 

[invert_nexus]

But... But... The Qu'ran says....

 

[Preacher_X]

Saith,

like in said to james, study some science.

yes Ultraviolet rays etc. do get to earth but only a gernerally normal and safe amount (but can be harmful) the atmosphere blocks out most of the rays which get to earth that are harmful and only lets them come in small amounts.

so are you honestly saying that the atmpsosphere does not help humans and does not block out harmful rays? then why are enviromentalists and sceinctist bitching that CFC is damagin the atmosphere and creating a hole in the ozone which is letting more harmful rays in then it shoud be doing?

yes, the atmosphere blocks out a lot of harmful rays and only lets them pass in small amounts. it also burns away objects from space when the head towards earth. if the atmosphere did not exsist then the earth will be constantly bombarded with onbjects from space and loads of very harmful rays in bug amounts will pass and give us radiation and skin cancers and kill us.

to study the function of the atmosphere saith look at any good text book.

 

[Preacher_X]

Mr. X,

You do realize that the Old Testament stories were written a couple thousand years BEFORE the Quaran.

And im sure you realize that the greeks and romans figured out everything you stated WAY before it was written in the Quaran (funny how the Planets have Roman names.....)

greeks and romans had all of this figured out? ok suurrre they did. look up some roman history and i think you'll find out that they didnt.

and about the planets, they have roman names becasue they are named after roman gods. and anyway at the time the most advanced science was telling people that:

the planets and the sun go around the earth
the earth does not move
the earth is flat
stars are very near

 

[Preacher_X]

As it is apparently always translated as Heaven, those translators must have presumed this meaning to be correct.

heaven is the most approiate word that it can be translated as. like Sallalahualhyiwasalam is always translated to "peace be upon him", it has a meaning more like "the angles of heaven invoke blessings upon him" or "we give blessings to the heaven for (or) upon him. and like i said just ask a Arab about this and tell him is it sky or heaven. it is pretty obvious that it means sky. forget that this is from the Quran imagne someone just said this sentence to me i would know it means sky just as if you said "it rained heavily from the heavens" you would know it means sky. well actually, you only know it means sky becasue of the rest of the sentence. but in the arabic version i have an advanatge becsue i can actually tell from the word and not the sentence.

if you look at englsih, even if two words are spelt correctly then you can still see what each means by looking at the sentence. in Arabic it can be even easier as you can often tell from the word.

Also an awful lot of those symbols above the letters of the word and surrounding words where added later.

yes true. Arabs can understand Arabic without these symbols and thats why most arabic books (non religous) dont have those points. points were added to make it readable by people who know just arabic letters and not grammer and langauge so they get it. before then only nesseccary points were there (becasue if they werent there it would be unreadabe or another meaning)

these dont change the meaning though unless you misread the actual point (if you read a point wrong it can totally change the meaning)

anyway this word Sky can be identified by the elongation of the word and although they do have original points they are not needed to understand the meaning. so the points are not needed.

so anymore lessons in Arabic?

 

[spuriousmonkey]

Saith,

like in said to james, study some science.

yes Ultraviolet rays etc. do get to earth but only a gernerally normal and safe amount (but can be harmful) the atmosphere blocks out most of the rays which get to earth that are harmful and only lets them come in small amounts.

Why don't you go out somewhere on the equator and stand outside all day naked. See how safe it is, and how small amounts get through. Many species go through special adaptations to protect them from ultraviolet rays. You think they do that because the effect is minimal?

Saith,

so are you honestly saying that the atmpsosphere does not help humans and does not block out harmful rays? then why are enviromentalists and sceinctist bitching that CFC is damagin the atmosphere and creating a hole in the ozone which is letting more harmful rays in then it shoud be doing?

it is creating a hole in the ozone layer.

----

So do you have any proof that excessive heat of the sun causes sunburns?

You said it was the main factor. We would like to hear about this. Maybe you could give us a link or a general textbook that states that sunburns are caused by the excessive heat of the sun.

 

[Saith]

Saith,

like in said to james, study some science.

Ok... and what exactly did I say that was incorrect? Go ahead and quote something I said.

yes Ultraviolet rays etc. do get to earth but only a gernerally normal and safe amount (but can be harmful) the atmosphere blocks out most of the rays which get to earth that are harmful and only lets them come in small amounts.

Ultraviolet rays don't come to the Earth in harmful amounts? And all this time I've been hiding underground in fear that they do, Im so silly.

so are you honestly saying that the atmpsosphere does not help humans and does not block out harmful rays? then why are enviromentalists and sceinctist bitching that CFC is damagin the atmosphere and creating a hole in the ozone which is letting more harmful rays in then it shoud be doing?

When did I say that? Lol, isn't that the same reply you gave to James who never said that either?

if the atmosphere did not exsist then the earth will be constantly bombarded with onbjects from space and loads of very harmful rays in bug amounts will pass and give us radiation and skin cancers and kill us.

If the atmosphere didn't exist I think we would suffocate from a lack of oxygen before we got skin cancer... I don't know though, maybe you can hold your breathe for a really long time?

to study the function of the atmosphere saith look at any good text book.

Is that how you learned that the Sun can cause a sunburn by exposing you to "excessive heat"?

 

[Saith]

greeks and romans had all of this figured out? ok suurrre they did. look up some roman history and i think you'll find out that they didnt.

and about the planets, they have roman names becasue they are named after roman gods. and anyway at the time the most advanced science was telling people that:

the planets and the sun go around the earth
the earth does not move
the earth is flat
stars are very near

Have you heard of the greek astronomer and mathematician Eratosthenes? He not only knew that the Earth was round but he also calculated the circumferance of the Earth and was only off by 1%.

 

[Igor Trip]

heaven is the most approiate word that it can be translated as. like Sallalahualhyiwasalam is always translated to "peace be upon him", it has a meaning more like "the angles of heaven invoke blessings upon him" or "we give blessings to the heaven for (or) upon him. and like i said just ask a Arab about this and tell him is it sky or heaven. it is pretty obvious that it means sky. forget that this is from the Quran imagne someone just said this sentence to me i would know it means sky just as if you said "it rained heavily from the heavens" you would know it means sky. well actually, you only know it means sky becasue of the rest of the sentence. but in the arabic version i have an advanatge becsue i can actually tell from the word and not the sentence.

if you look at english, even if two words are spelt correctly then you can still see what each means by looking at the sentence. in Arabic it can be even easier as you can often tell from the word.

PX.
“Heaven” cannot be more appropriate that “sky” if “sky” is more correct!
“Heaven “ can never be an alternative for the atmosphere. It can only be an alternative for the universe above the atmosphere.
So, when Arabs refer to the “sky”, do they mean the atmosphere or do they mean that blue dome we see over our heads? This has been the real meaning of “sky” throughout history.


040.064
YUSUFALI: It is Allah Who has made for you the earth as a resting place, and the sky as a canopy, and has given you shape- and made your shapes beautiful,- and has provided for you Sustenance, of things pure and good;- such is Allah your Lord. So Glory to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds!
PICKTHAL: Allah it is Who appointed for you the earth for a dwelling-place and the sky for a canopy, and fashioned you and perfected your shapes, and hath provided you with good things. Such is Allah, your Lord. Then blessed be Allah, the Lord of the Worlds!
SHAKIR: Allah is He Who made the earth a resting-place for you and the heaven a canopy, and He formed you, then made goodly your forms, and He provided you with goodly things; that is Allah, your Lord; blessed then is Allah, the Lord of the worlds.


Also you didn’t answer this.

You say it always depends on context.

“It is He who created everything one earth for you and then directed his attention, to the heaven and arranged it into seven regular heavens, He has knowledge of all things. (Quran, 2:26)"

This says everything on earth was created first. This must include all life or the word “everything” makes no sense, and for there to be life there must be air to breath. So if the Heavens where created afterwards they cannot be the atmosphere.

 

[Preacher_X]

look dumbo, the arabic word used is sky.forget that it is from the Quran just ask an arab what does this sentence mean sky or universe?

the reason it says heaven is that the Arabic word that they used was a very posh way of saying sky and not just the normal way of saying sky. the word still definately means sky (actually it can mean universe in this partiucal case as it has nothing to do with universe) and not universe but it is the poshest version of saying sky.

so it would not be right saying sky as that is just the simple way of saying it. "heavens" is a posh word saying "sky" so it is more appropiate.

and dont use verse 2:26 anymore dumbo. Allah made the universe BEFORE earth so how on earth can that statement be about the universe if Allah created the universe before earth? its talking about the sky.

yes for life to exisist there must be an atmosphere but you are using the Christian version of the creation story. Allah did not make the universe in 6 literal days as the hardlined Christians believe. Allah created them in six periods but brought them down at later interavals. for example Prophet Muhammed (saw) was created BEFORE Prophet Adam(as) but Adam was sent down first and Muhammed last.

so the creatures on earth were created first and then the layers of the sky were made but the creatures were put on earth afterwards.

however, you cannot use that same rule for verse 2:26 and say that it is refferring to the universe because Allah created the Universe BEFORE the earth and he sent the universe first and THEN the earth. in verse 2;26 which you keep on foolishly using for your arguement it says that earth is created first and then the "heaven" but the universe created and sent down BEOFRE erath so it is referring to the sky (and also the Arabic word os actually sky and not universe!)

 

[Preacher_X]

and saith [deleted] LOOK at my quote i said that sunburn comes from excessive heat AND hrmful rays so [deleted].

also, yes obviously the rays such as ultra violet ones can harm us. thats pretty obvious i know but the Ozone DOES help us GREATLY in protecting us from this.

if you think otherwise you are an uneducated fool. the Ozone does protect us from harmful rays and does obviouly have pretective qulaities but is not 100% and things can still harm us.

and why are you starting silly arguments for? the Quran says that the layers have preotective features and the atmosphere does... protects us from many objects hitting us from space, harmful rays and radation and keeps in heat. ok and dont say that is false cos its obviously true,

 

[Saith]

and saith [deleted] LOOK at my quote i said that sunburn comes from excessive heat AND hrmful rays so [deleted].

Sunburns don't come from harmful rays AND excessive heat, lol. They only come from UV, or "harmful rays" as you call them.

also, yes obviously the rays such as ultra violet ones can harm us. thats pretty obvious i know but the Ozone DOES help us GREATLY in protecting us from this.

if you think otherwise you are an uneducated fool. the Ozone does protect us from harmful rays and does obviouly have pretective qulaities but is not 100% and things can still harm us.

I never said that it didn't help us. Why do you keep bringing up things that I never even mentioned? You seem to just ignore what I say and start babbling on about the atmosphere.

Preacher X... if you think that the sky isn't blue then you are an uneducated fool that needs to read a text book and study the atmosphere and stop being [deleted].

and why are you starting silly arguments for?

I guess it's because Im so silly, Preacher X.

the Quran says that the layers have preotective features and the atmosphere does... protects us from many objects hitting us from space, harmful rays and radation and keeps in heat. ok and dont say that is false cos its obviously true,

Im really starting to wonder about you. :bugeye:

Why do you keep telling me that the atmosphere protects us? When did I ever suggest that it didn't? It's almost as if you are having an argument with someone else and pretending that it's me. You haven't been exposed to any "excessive heat" from the Sun have you? Because I heard "excessive heat" from the Sun and baseball bats make it hard for you to focus when your head is exposed to them! Remember, I said "excessive heat" AND baseballs bats, so don't jump on my shit.

look dumbo

You're funny.

I am kind of offended though. Why did you call me [deleted] and just tell Igor Trip to "look dumbo". OMG, that's not even an insult, you might as well have said "listen up doofus", LOL

 

[Igor Trip]

look dumbo, the arabic word used is sky.forget that it is from the Quran just ask an arab what does this sentence mean sky or universe?

the reason it says heaven is that the Arabic word that they used was a very posh way of saying sky and not just the normal way of saying sky. the word still definately means sky (actually it can mean universe in this partiucal case as it has nothing to do with universe) and not universe but it is the poshest version of saying sky.

so it would not be right saying sky as that is just the simple way of saying it. "heavens" is a posh word saying "sky" so it is more appropiate.

PX.
Sky, Heaven and Universe are not Arabic words, they are English words.
They have specific meanings.
Sky means that blue dome above our heads (nobody ever says “we breath the sky”). The night Sky refers to the stars.
Heaven is where God lives, wherever that is (it does not need to mean the universe).
None of these words refer to the air we breath and the translators new it.
So the Arabic word for Sky cannot mean the atmosphere but rather the top of the atmosphere where space begins.

and dont use verse 2:26 anymore dumbo. Allah made the universe BEFORE earth so how on earth can that statement be about the universe if Allah created the universe before earth? its talking about the sky.

yes for life to exisist there must be an atmosphere but you are using the Christian version of the creation story. Allah did not make the universe in 6 literal days as the hardlined Christians believe. Allah created them in six periods but brought them down at later interavals. for example Prophet Muhammed (saw) was created BEFORE Prophet Adam(as) but Adam was sent down first and Muhammed last.

so the creatures on earth were created first and then the layers of the sky were made but the creatures were put on earth afterwards.

however, you cannot use that same rule for verse 2:26 and say that it is refferring to the universe because Allah created the Universe BEFORE the earth and he sent the universe first and THEN the earth. in verse 2;26 which you keep on foolishly using for your arguement it says that earth is created first and then the "heaven" but the universe created and sent down BEOFRE erath so it is referring to the sky (and also the Arabic word os actually sky and not universe!)

Muhammad was created before Adam!!? That’s the most stupid argument yet!!

How can God send the universe “down”? Surely he would create it where it is. Then create the Earth where it is. But that’s not what 2:26 says so you have to twist and turn every sentence round and round to try to make it make sense. It doesn’t.

The Quran only refers to the Sky and Heaven. It never refers to the universe.

As the Arabs of the day thought the stars where just a few miles above our heads, they thought that was the whole universe.
This is the view the Quran appears to endorse.

 

[(Q)]

Preacher X sez:

i said that sunburn comes from excessive heat AND hrmful rays

Excessive heat and harmful rays ban be considered one and the same in your example.

so anymore lessons in Arabic?

You should probably concentrate on taking some lessons in science before you start comparing it to religious text and worrying about translations. You might then actually be able to form an argument.

 

[Preacher_X]

saith,

your proving to be more of an ass every day.

firstly, the Quran does not say that the universe is only a few miles near. the Quran makes it clear that the universe is very very very very very big and the stars are ernormous distances away.

and as for the creation.
creating something and actually putting it there are very different things. just as Muhammed (saw) was created first but not pyhisically put anywhere on the universe.

and according to the Quran Allah can do ANYTHING. im arguing what the Quran says and it says he can do anything im not arguing what you say, which is Allah can not do everything.

also every sinlge persons soul was created at the same time. but were sent down at different tmes. that means people who are yet to be born were created at the same time as people who have died. this proves what you said wrong aswell. those people who are yet to be born are nowhere in the universe but are still created already. but then they get "sent down" to actually exsist but they have been already created.

according to the Quran the universe was created BEFORE earth. that means it was created and put down BEFORE earth. got that? so verse 2:26 where it says Allah made earth and then directed his attention to the sky does not mean the universe beacasue the universe was created before. the atmosphere was created formed afterwards and thats why "Allah directed his attention towards it" beacause he formed it then. and then living things were put on.

also Allah does not live in heaven. Allah says in the Quran he is above the heavens and the Earth meaning that he is away from creation. but Allah is not in a specific place becaue Allah is not like or dependant on any form of creation. that means you can't say Allah is here or is there beacasue if he is in a certain place that means he is taking up area and area is a creation.

just like before the big bang "time" as we know it and "space" (even area or location) all of these did not exsist and the Big bang created EVERYTHING includin time and space.

 

[Igor Trip]

saith,

your proving to be more of an ass every day.

firstly, the Quran does not say that the universe is only a few miles near. the Quran makes it clear that the universe is very very very very very big and the stars are ernormous distances away.

Reference please.

and as for the creation.
creating something and actually putting it there are very different things. just as Muhammed (saw) was created first but not pyhisically put anywhere on the universe.

and according to the Quran Allah can do ANYTHING. im arguing what the Quran says and it says he can do anything im not arguing what you say, which is Allah can not do everything.

also every sinlge persons soul was created at the same time. but were sent down at different tmes. that means people who are yet to be born were created at the same time as people who have died. this proves what you said wrong aswell. those people who are yet to be born are nowhere in the universe but are still created already. but then they get "sent down" to actually exsist but they have been already created.

Can you please provide the relevant surahs as I cannot remember any of this being in the Quran and I haven’t heard of any Hadiths mentioning it either.

according to the Quran the universe was created BEFORE earth. that means it was created and put down BEFORE earth. got that? so verse 2:26 where it says Allah made earth and then directed his attention to the sky does not mean the universe beacasue the universe was created before. the atmosphere was created formed afterwards and thats why "Allah directed his attention towards it" beacause he formed it then. and then living things were put on.

No it doesn’t. If it did you would have provided the relevant surahs.

also Allah does not live in heaven. Allah says in the Quran he is above the heavens and the Earth meaning that he is away from creation. but Allah is not in a specific place becaue Allah is not like or dependant on any form of creation. that means you can't say Allah is here or is there beacasue if he is in a certain place that means he is taking up area and area is a creation.

I thought Allah was supposed to be with us at all times, not “away from his creation”.
I was referring to the English meaning of Heaven.

just like before the big bang "time" as we know it and "space" (even area or location) all of these did not exsist and the Big bang created EVERYTHING includin time and space.

So?

Preacher_X. Your posts are getting more erratic (as is your spelling) and are relying less and less on the Quran. As it’s the Quran we are arguing about, can we please stick to that.
(Please try using a spell checker).

 

[(Q)]

and according to the Quran Allah can do ANYTHING.

Of course he can do anything - funny though he hasn't stopped suicide bombers from killing people in his name. Nor has he done anything to alleviate human suffering in the world.

I guess he can't DO everything.

 

[Preacher_X]

Allah can do whatever he wants whenever he wants and whatever happens (good or bad) then it is under his command. that is the most basic belief in Islam - the power of Allah.

anywayz, remember you saying

You say it always depends on context.

“It is He who created everything one earth for you and then directed his attention, to the heaven and arranged it into seven regular heavens, He has knowledge of all things. (Quran, 2:26)"

well you foolishly tried to use this argument against me in surah 2:26.

ok then lets study the context of this Surah

well the universe was created BEFORE Earth in the creation story. in this verse it is saying Allah created earth and then directed his attention to the heavens. the heavens is the atmosphere.

got that, the universe gets created first so in CONTEXT (as you told me to use) the heavens cannot be the universe as it was already created.

 

[Igor Trip]

Allah can do whatever he wants whenever he wants and whatever happens (good or bad) then it is under his command. that is the most basic belief in Islam - the power of Allah.

anywayz, remember you saying

“You say it always depends on context.”

“It is He who created everything one earth for you and then directed his attention, to the heaven and arranged it into seven regular heavens, He has knowledge of all things. (Quran, 2:26)"

well you foolishly tried to use this argument against me in surah 2:26.

ok then lets study the context of this Surah

well the universe was created BEFORE Earth in the creation story. in this verse it is saying Allah created earth and then directed his attention to the heavens. the heavens is the atmosphere.

got that, the universe gets created first so in CONTEXT (as you told me to use) the heavens cannot be the universe as it was already created.

Not according to this.


Days of creation

[41:9] Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Do you verily disbelieve in Him Who created the earth in two Days and you set up rivals (in worship) with Him? That is the Lord of the Alam" (mankind, jinns and all that exists).

[41:10] He placed therein (i.e. the earth) firm mountains from above it, and He blessed it, and measured therein its sustenance (for its dwellers) in four Days equal (i.e. all these four 'days' were equal in the length of time), for all those who ask (about its creation).

[41:11] Then He istaw (rose over) towards the heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth: "Come both of you willingly or unwillingly." They both said: "We come, willingly."

[41:12] Then He completed seven heavens in two Days and He made in each heaven its affair. And We adorned the nearest (lowest) heaven with lamps (stars) to be an adornment as well as to guard (from the devils by using them as missiles against the devils). Such is the Decree of Him the All-Mighty, the All-Knower.


There is no mention of the universe, only of heaven.
Notice the lowest heaven is adorned with stars. So the stars where created after the earth.

Querie. 2+4+2=8. I can think of two ways around this but I'm interested to know the official solution.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

dumbo[/B]

maybe you can edit out these words.

They make you look like an idiot.