I agree with Baron on this one. To equate a dislike of gay and/or an innate feeling of disgust towards homosexual sex as 'homophobic' is misleading. 'Phobias' are irrational fears.
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The "homophobic" lie
- Thread starter Tiassa
- Start date
I agree with Baron on this one. To equate a dislike of gay and/or an innate feeling of disgust towards homosexual sex as 'homophobic' is misleading. 'Phobias' are irrational fears.
So what is the rational reason to dislike an entire segment of the population?
Pandaemoni
Valued Senior Member
And once again, you're equating the dislike or hatred of gays to "fear" of them. I know of virtually no one who is afraid of gays.
"Homophobia" does not mean "fear of gays." The root words suggest a fear of gays...well--a fear of things that are the same--but the actual definition, in modern usage, means "extreme fear of or dislike for homosexuals or homosexual conduct."
It's like the word "decimate." "Decimate" originally means "to destroy 1/10th of" as evidendenced by its Latin root decem meaning "ten." Despite its roots, it now means "annihilate a large portion of" and the 1/10th notion has been largely lost except in the historical context.
Arguing that the word "homophobic" only applies to those who "fear" gays is like arguing that decimation is the annihilation of precisely 1/10th of a group or that only stone structures can become "delapidated"...all are examples of the etymological fallacy.
For what it's worth I think we can all agree that "homophobia" is not akin to other "phobias" like agoraphobia or bathysiderodromophobia. It's not the only "phobia" with non-psychological meaning though, as hydrophobia is another name for "rabies" and not just "fear of water."
That they might have though of a better name for homophobia doesn't change the substance of the arguments related to it, it just raises semantic debate points for those who want to deflect the issue away from bias against gays onto the "real" meaning of the word 'homophobia."
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And, by the way, I've asked you several times to prove your assertaion, but all you can do is say it over and over again as if saying it proves it.
I'm not sure what kind of proof you're looking for--probably none, since anything presented would not convince you. However, if you want research showing that the people who are the most vocal about hating gays are the ones that are actually most aroused by the idea of gay sex (and therefore the most afraid of being gay themselves) here's the most signficant piece of research:
http://www.oogachaga.com/downloads/homophobia_and_homosexual_arousal.pdf
Interesting. Thanks. That correlates pretty well with the guys like Ted Haggard who rail against gays in public life and end up being outed as closeted, self-loathing homosexuals themselves.maxg said:here's the most signficant piece of research:
Pandaemoni
Valued Senior Member
Interesting. Thanks. That correlates pretty well with the guys like Ted Haggard who rail against gays in public life and end up being outed as closeted, self-loathing homosexuals themselves.
I always thought haggard seemed very nice. Especially so relative to the "Lesbians caused 9/11" crowd.
Thing is: why do the gay bashers care so much? There are only so many explanations for that kind of focussed hostility, and all of them involve the perception of some kind of personal threat.
Simple disgust or contempt won't do. I know several old-timers who are completely disgusted by the idea of oral sex on a woman - I've heard it compared to sex with animals, eating feces, etc - but I've never met anyone who would go off on someone for doing it, verbally or physically.
Simple disgust or contempt won't do. I know several old-timers who are completely disgusted by the idea of oral sex on a woman - I've heard it compared to sex with animals, eating feces, etc - but I've never met anyone who would go off on someone for doing it, verbally or physically.
I'm not sure what kind of proof you're looking for--probably none, since anything presented would not convince you. However, if you want research ...
So three people write a book and you take it to be true and factual? Just like that? When in reality, they probably wrote it so that they could get published so that they could get tenure at some university! ...and you take it as factual information? ....LOL!
Baron Max
Interesting. Thanks. That correlates pretty well with the guys like Ted Haggard who rail against gays in public life and end up being outed as closeted, self-loathing homosexuals themselves.
One person's actions don't prove anything. And to think so is pretty strange in itself.
Baron Max
Thing is: why do the gay bashers care so much? There are only so many explanations for that kind of focussed hostility, and all of them involve the perception of some kind of personal threat.
Oh, really? Name a few examples.
Simple disgust or contempt won't do.
Have you ever been in close quarters, say an elevator or a subway car, and some of the people around you stink of old sweat like they hadn't bathed or washed their clothes in days or weeks? If you're a normal human in a normal society like today's western world, then you're disgusted by that. But do you actually feel personally threatened by those stinky people? You're disgusted by their personal hygene, and you hold them in contempt, but do you feel threatened in any way?
...but I've never met anyone who would go off on someone for doing it, verbally or physically.
So because you, personally, have never met such people, then they don't exist?
Baron Max
So three people write a book and you take it to be true and factual? Just like that? When in reality, they probably wrote it so that they could get published so that they could get tenure at some university! ...and you take it as factual information? ....LOL!
Baron Max
Didn't think you cared to look at it, which is why I won't waste my time providing other references.
So because you, personally, have never met such people, then they don't exist?
Baron Max
Isn't that your argument for why homophobia doesn't exist?
Homophobia (from Greek ὁμο homo(sexual), "same, equal" + φοβία (phobia), "fear") is a non-scientific term[3][4] used to describe the fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.[5][6] It can also mean hatred, hostility, disapproval of, or prejudice towards homosexuals, or homosexual behavior or cultures.[7] Homophobic is the adjective form of this term used to describe the qualities of these characteristics while homophobe is the noun form given as a title to individuals with "homophobic" characteristics.
Some believe any usage of homophobia is controversial[8] and several dictionaries characterize this type of fear as irrational.[9][10][11] Homophobia in men is correlated with insecurity about masculinity.[12]
Wikipedia
Some believe any usage of homophobia is controversial[8] and several dictionaries characterize this type of fear as irrational.[9][10][11] Homophobia in men is correlated with insecurity about masculinity.[12]
Wikipedia
Didn't think you cared to look at it, which is why I won't waste my time providing other references.
So, you DO take it as factual, huh? ...just because someone writes a paper or book, you take it as fact?
And as to psychologists, etc., most don't know what they claim, they just make correlations, or connections, but they're the first to admit that psychology is NOT anything like an exact science. It's just all speculation and theory and possibilities.
Baron Max
Isn't that your argument for why homophobia doesn't exist?
Huh? No, of course not. "Homophobia" is the fear of homosexuals ....that's the accepted definition. So if someone has "homophobia", then he or she is fearful of homosexuals by the very definition.
But to make the claim that all people who dislike or hate homosexuals are "homophobic" is the height of stupidity and ignorance and all those other adjectives that mean stupid and ignorant!
I know many people who dislike gays, are disgusted by their actions, but not one single one of them is anything like "fearful" of gays! That's simply stupid and ignorant to say.
Baron Max
Homophobia (from Greek ὁμο homo(sexual), "same, equal" + φοβία (phobia), "fear") is a non-scientific term[3][4] used to describe the fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.[5][6] It can also mean hatred, hostility, disapproval of, or prejudice towards homosexuals, or homosexual behavior or cultures.[7] Homophobic is the adjective form of this term used to describe the qualities of these characteristics while homophobe is the noun form given as a title to individuals with "homophobic" characteristics.
Some believe any usage of homophobia is controversial[8] and several dictionaries characterize this type of fear as irrational.[9][10][11] Homophobia in men is correlated with insecurity about masculinity.[12]
Wikipedia
So now we're going to argue about definitions and accepted definitions and who's right and who's wrong about ........words???? ....LOL!
What's the scientific term for people who hate to smell dirty, stinky, sweaty, smelly people in elevators?
Baron Max
But to make the claim that all people who dislike or hate homosexuals are "homophobic" is the height of stupidity and ignorance and all those other adjectives that mean stupid and ignorant!
I know many people who dislike gays, are disgusted by their actions, but not one single one of them is anything like "fearful" of gays! That's simply stupid and ignorant to say.
Baron Max
Agreed. I am not FEARFUL of gays. Personally I don't care for or agree with their lifestyle.
I really don't care to see them prancing around the streets in their "Parades".
But I worked with a couple once and was I afraid to talk to them, sit with them at lunch?......NO but would I want to hear about what they do afterwork ......NO
Pandaemoni
Valued Senior Member
So now we're going to argue about definitions and accepted definitions and who's right and who's wrong about ........words???? ....LOL!
What's the scientific term for people who hate to smell dirty, stinky, sweaty, smelly people in elevators?
Baron Max
What do you think you've been doing in asserting that homophobia is fear of homosexuals (and NOTHING ELSE). You've been arguing that the word includes nothing other than fear and fear alone. Except that that's not the generally accepted definition of the word.
What do you think you've been doing in asserting that homophobia is fear of homosexuals (and NOTHING ELSE). You've been arguing that the word includes nothing other than fear and fear alone. Except that that's not the generally accepted definition of the word.
Obviously you haven't been reading the posts all along. Tiassa claims that anyone and everyone who is disgusted by gay acts, anyone who dislikes gays, and everyone who hates gays ...........is homophobic!
That is, patently, a false assertion. Which is exactly what I've been saying all along. Read the posts, you'll see ......maybe.
Baron Max
Thing is: why do the gay bashers care so much?
BECAUSE gay people spread AIDS, demoralize society values, they also limit people in their choices (many people feel oppressed by that which has become gay...and in order to not be seen as gay they have to not wear that and not do that so that they are not identified as gay), also gay people are slowing down population increase in humanity and even though right now it seems as a positive thing in future this will grow into a decline and the population has a chance of going extinct, furthermore gay people do not contribute to genetic pool.