The Holy Bible vs the Koran

[andbna]

Although I thought of replys ad nauseum to point out the grotesque fallacies of your posts Linda, I think I shall keep it simple:

You are immature; having no ability (or are to ignorant to use any such ability) to question your own beliefs. You thus lack the means to understand anothers belief system, and cannot carry on a usefull philosophical debate.

-Andrew

 

[John99]

most likely a sock puppet.

 

[Prince_James]

Linda7777:

I know Jesus is real because I have personally met him, so there is no way I could believe otherwise. If I hadn't met him personally then I would be prey.

How did you personally meet him?

I assume in a vision, right?

Also, the Decalogue (Ten Commandments) is a retty decent rule. But the God stuff is not much in the way of paradise supportive. Only the practical stuff is.

Thou shall not murder.
Thou shall not commit adultery (which means seduce a wife or a wife screwing around, not a husband of a woman to fornicate with an unmarried woman to note)
Thou shall not steal
Thou shall not covet thy neighbour's possessions and wife.
Thou shall honour one's mother and father
Thou shalt not bear false witness.

However, even that is incomplete. It speaks of nothing of charging interest, for instance. Or abortion. Or homosexuality. Or war. Or payment. Or slavery. Or any other moral issue.

It ia also an expression if nearly universal mandates of general, common sense, society-supportive morality.

 

[Linda7777]

Although I thought of replys ad nauseum to point out the grotesque fallacies of your posts Linda, I think I shall keep it simple:

You are immature; having no ability (or are to ignorant to use any such ability) to question your own beliefs. You thus lack the means to understand anothers belief system, and cannot carry on a usefull philosophical debate.

-Andrew

I don't need to question truth. Why would I question if 1+1 is 2? Or if green is green and not red? If up is up and not down? There is truth and there is the lie.
You want me to understand atheism, paganism, heathenism, devil worship,
belief in fairies, worship of godesses and gods, homosexuality, hinduism, Islam, and the list goes on... with a smile of approval.
I'm glad you see the firm standing of the Christian who will not compromise.
You're a brazen hypocrite who embraces only what YOU percieve as acceptable, but if it interferes with your beliefs which were plain in your post, then one becomes your enemy.
Yes, you are truly a hypocrite.

 

[Linda7777]

Thou shall not murder.
Thou shall not commit adultery (which means seduce a wife or a wife screwing around, not a husband of a woman to fornicate with an unmarried woman to note)
Thou shall not steal
Thou shall not covet thy neighbour's possessions and wife.
Thou shall honour one's mother and father
Thou shalt not bear false witness.

Yes, do all these things and the world will be a better place!

 

[Linda7777]

James posted
"However, even that is incomplete. It speaks of nothing of charging interest, for instance. Or abortion. Or homosexuality. Or war. Or payment. Or slavery. Or any other moral issue.

It ia also an expression if nearly universal mandates of general, common sense, society-supportive morality."

Jesus said if you love your neighbor as yourself, you fulfill all the Law and the prophets. So there it is...

 

[andbna]

I don't need to question truth. There is no need to. Why would I question if 1+1 is 2?

Your right, no need to question truth, but you (nor I) know no truth(pick up some epystomology related material to see why.) You do have beliefs, which should be questioned.
The analogy does not hold; 1+1=2 because we defined it as such, that is, mathematics follows a set of axioms created by humans which are thus known, and has nothing to do with our reality (thouh, it may be able to model parts of it.)

You want me to understand atheism, paganism, heathenism, devil worship,
belief in fairies, worship of godesses and gods, homosexuality, hinduism, Islam, and the list goes on. with a smile of approval.

No, you wanted to understand the Muslim position, remember? It was the original post? I merely stated that to understand another's belief system, you have to question your own. Capiche?

I'm glad you see the firm standing of the Christian who will not compromise.
You're a brazen hypocrite who embraces only what YOU percieve as acceptable, but if it interferes with your beliefs which were plain in your post, then one becomes your enemy.
Yes, you are truly a hypocrite.

So let me get this straight: You admit that you are ignorant (by saying you refuse to compromise your position) and you further admit that I do understand your position, and yet you think the hypochrite is I? I think you should google the phrase: "non sequitur."

But, since you claim to know my beliefs, tell me, how do you percieve them?

-Andrew

 

[Prince_James]

Linda7777:

Jesus said if you love your neighbor as yourself, you fulfill all the Law and the prophets. So there it is...

But that is clearly not the case, as Jewish law itself went into extreme lengths of reasoning to try to capture alll moral issues.

Moreover, that would still imply the Ten Commandents is flawed, as "Love Thy Neighbour as Thyself" is not part of the ten commandments.

 

[Linda7777]

Ignorance is not knowing. I know whom I have believed...Christ.
Your belief is... one must toe the line you toe or one is IGNORANT.
Ignorance to you is ignorance of your views, your perceptions of life.
I could say to you that in order for you to understand my belief you must listen and understand. I don't care if you understand my beliefs.
I understand that the world if filled with some very strange people whose beliefs cannot be understood, but must be rejected as insane.
I asked a simple question about Islam hoping to perhaps find a meaningful respectful dialogue with an intelligent Muslim. But instead I was brutally attacked by faceless people criticizing me, insutlting me, and basically hating me with their posts.
You're a hypocrite by wanting me to be what you are not.

 

[John99]

You wiill smoke some out soon,

 

[spidergoat]

Prove that the Bible is the work of men.
Prove that obeying the Ten Commandments would not create a paradise.

It is not internally consistent. Even the reports of the various disciples are different. Mary Magdalene had a quite different interpretation of the resurrection than the other disciples did. Early in Christianity, there were a variety of gospels with very different views that were suppressed. Certain events like the exodus have been shown not to have happened. Jews have been shown genetically to be native to the Palestine region.

As far as the Ten Commandments, it is a reflection of the norms of society, and are present in the social codes of other cultures of a non-religious nature. Furthermore, one of the commandments is that you not create images, which would pretty much end the internet. I do agree that not killing, coveting, stealing, and the like are good ideas, but their existence does not show that they could only have come from a God.

 

[scorpius]

Thou shall not murder.
Thou shall not commit adultery (which means seduce a wife or a wife screwing around, not a husband of a woman to fornicate with an unmarried woman to note)
Thou shall not steal
Thou shall not covet thy neighbour's possessions and wife.
Thou shall honour one's mother and father
Thou shalt not bear false witness.

Yes, do all these things and the world will be a better place!

oh really?watch this and think again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCz0-HY1TLU

btw why are things such as rape,murder,slavery ok in your guide book?

www.evilbible.com

and why should we admire Jesus when he said idiotic shyt like this:

For I am come to SET A MAN AT VARIANCE AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND THE DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND THE DAUGHTER IN LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER IN LAW. And a MAN'S FOES SHALL BE THEY OF HIS OWN HOUSEHOLD.

-Matthew 10:35-36
http://www.nobeliefs.com/jesus.htm

here learn something new

http://www.nobeliefs.com/problemswithbeliefs.htm

 

[Linda7777]

Linda7777:



But that is clearly not the case, as Jewish law itself went into extreme lengths of reasoning to try to capture alll moral issues.

Moreover, that would still imply the Ten Commandents is flawed, as "Love Thy Neighbour as Thyself" is not part of the ten commandments.

Oh please......!
Jesus set his words against the Holy Scriptures.
Jesus said.."you have heard it said by them of old time...
..but I say to you..."
He said if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not hurt him in any way.

 

[Linda7777]

Scorpius posted;
For I am come to SET A MAN AT VARIANCE AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND THE DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND THE DAUGHTER IN LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER IN LAW. And a MAN'S FOES SHALL BE THEY OF HIS OWN HOUSEHOLD.

-Matthew 10:35-36

Yes he did, he brought a sword and we see that sword right now dividing me and you and me and others. If you want to rob a bank and I refuse to go with you the sword has divided us. Jesus brouht the sword that divides good people from evil ones. It divides the good guys from the bad guys.

 

[scorpius]

Ignorance is not knowing. I know whom I have believed...Christ.
Your belief is... one must toe the line you toe or one is IGNORANT.

no,
ignorance is NOT wanting to KNOW anything else, IOW =IGNORING everything else.

Ignorance to you is ignorance of your views, your perceptions of life.
I could say to you that in order for you to understand my belief you must listen and understand. I don't care if you understand my beliefs.
I understand that the world if filled with some very strange people whose beliefs cannot be understood, but must be rejected as insane.

WHY are others beliefs insane and not yours?
after all your book seem totaly insane in so many places
www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

I asked a simple question about Islam hoping to perhaps find a meaningful respectful dialogue with an intelligent Muslim. But instead I was brutally attacked by faceless people criticizing me, insutlting me, and basically hating me with their posts.

want some cheese with that whine..LOL
you come to religion forum debate,expect to get your feathers ruffled,its that simple.

You're a hypocrite by wanting me to be what you are not.

it would help if you learned a definition of the word hypocrite before using it,

 

[Linda7777]

It is not internally consistent. Even the reports of the various disciples are different. Mary Magdalene had a quite different interpretation of the resurrection than the other disciples did. Early in Christianity, there were a variety of gospels with very different views that were suppressed. Certain events like the exodus have been shown not to have happened. Jews have been shown genetically to be native to the Palestine region.

As far as the Ten Commandments, it is a reflection of the norms of society, and are present in the social codes of other cultures of a non-religious nature. Furthermore, one of the commandments is that you not create images, which would pretty much end the internet. I do agree that not killing, coveting, stealing, and the like are good ideas, but their existence does not show that they could only have come from a God.

Where have you been that you don't know what the Mosiac Code is and what it means to the world? Why haven't you learned about the heart how God said he would write his laws on our hearts and in our minds?
There was no law as you say, not even Hammurabi's could compare with the Law of Moses.
These laws are not present in any codes anywhere and even as far back as the Sumerians they didn't know the things that make for peace and order. It is called human nature what you're talking about, nature without God, but with the desire for happiness, but not the knowldge of how to attain it.
The chaotic god and the creative one were known to the Sumerians but how to know him was non existent until God called Abram out of Babylonia a pagan land.

 

[scorpius]

Scorpius posted;
For I am come to SET A MAN AT VARIANCE AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND THE DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND THE DAUGHTER IN LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER IN LAW. And a MAN'S FOES SHALL BE THEY OF HIS OWN HOUSEHOLD.

-Matthew 10:35-36

Yes he did, he brought a sword and we see that sword right now dividing me and you and me and others. If you want to rob a bank and I refuse to go with you the sword has divided us. Jesus brouht the sword that divides good people from evil ones. It divides the good guys from the bad guys.

NOPE,only things that divides us is YOU and YOUR beliefs that everyone else is wrong,
why cant you simply accept all those who believe differently,after all I DO and Im atheist.

 

[Prince_James]

Linda7777:

Oh please......!
Jesus set his words against the Holy Scriptures.
Jesus said.."you have heard it said by them of old time...
..but I say to you..."
He said if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not hurt him in any way.

But this doesn't go back to the Decalogue.

Moreover, the Decalogue is not that important in Biblical or Talmudic Judaism.

And isn't the law superceded by Jesus? As such, even the Ten Commandments doesn't hold.

 

[andbna]

Ignorance is not knowing.

Correct. And you refuse to know the (potential) faults in your beliefs, hence, you are ignorant by your own choice.

Your belief is... one must toe the line you toe or one is IGNORANT.

No, the above is my definition of ignorance.

could say to you that in order for you to understand my belief you must listen and understand. I don't care if you understand my beliefs.

Your the one trying to understand anothers beliefs remember? How do you expect to understand anothers beliefs if you are unwilling to understand another's beliefs. Your position makes no sense.

I understand that the world if filled with some very strange people whose beliefs cannot be understood, but must be rejected as insane.

By definiton, if it cannot be understood, then it would be futile to try, so we can agree on that.

I asked a simple question about Islam hoping to perhaps find a meaningful respectful dialogue with an intelligent Muslim. But instead I was brutally attacked by faceless people criticizing me, insutlting me, and basically hating me with their posts.

You ask a simple question, and it was explained to you (not by me however.) You then claimed the explination infringes upon your beliefs. You were then told why you could not understand the answer, and now you call me a hypochrite.
Clearly, this is a question you should not have asked.

You're a hypocrite by wanting me to be what you are not.

I asked no such thing, you rather have imposed some stereotype upon me. YOU wanted to understand the Muslims beliefs. I merely explained that to understand anothers belief, you must question your own. I never said you HAVE to understand another persons beliefs. If you don't want to question your own, fine with me. Don't ask questions then which require you to do that which you don't want to do. Would you ask God for some need and accuse him of being a hypochrite if he asked you to climb a mountain to get it?

Now, remember that cube on the teachers desk, each side of which a student faced? Remember how one saw black and the other white? If you choose to stay rooted on the spot, then you can never understand why the other child disagrees.

-Andrew

 

[spidergoat]

Where have you been that you don't know what the Mosiac Code is and what it means to the world? Why haven't you learned about the heart how God said he would write his laws on our hearts and in our minds?
There was no law as you say, not even Hammurabi's could compare with the Law of Moses.
These laws are not present in any codes anywhere and even as far back as the Sumerians they didn't know the things that make for peace and order. It is called human nature what you're talking about, nature without God, but with the desire for happiness, but not the knowldge of how to attain it.
The chaotic god and the creative one were known to the Sumerians but how to know him was non existent until God called Abram out of Babylonia a pagan land.

The so-called "Mosaic Code" is not unique. Humans and even apes have an evolved sense of right and wrong. Yes, it's neat that people codified such rules as law. Confucius in particular had the same approach. The desire for happiness is what prevents it, as taught by Buddha. I think the basic message of Jesus was the same. Realization of the unity or non-bounded nature of existence, reduces the illusion of ego or separateness. Jesus said it was separateness from God, but that was the lingo of the day. God is another word for the all. Ying and Yang was a concept of creative/destructive polarity that is the same as what you describe. I think it's a superior concept, since they are not opposed in Eastern philosophy, they are both aspects of the same thing.

I'm not unfamiliar with the teachings of the gospel, I think orthodox Christianity does not fully capture the depth of the message of Jesus. Not even his disciples got it. Well maybe one or two, like Mary and Thomas.