The christian Bible...

[Mr. Hamtastic]

1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,


2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.


3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.


4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.


5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.


6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.


7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.


8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.


9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.


10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.


11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.


12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.


13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.


14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.


15 And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.


16 A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.


17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.


18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.


19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.


20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.


21 And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.


22 Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.

 

[Mr. Hamtastic]

I've got scads of questions about this chapter.... I'll let someone else throw out some thoughts first, if you like.

 

[(Q)]

Was not the gift of Christ to man a way for humans to get to heaven, through forgiveness and his teachings, that allowed for not abiding by not following every tenet in the Bible?

Where does it state in the bible one must not follow every tenet and if so, which tenets exactly should be followed and which ones shouldn't?

Isn't it so that you must abide by the ten commandments, and if you break one you must seek forgiveness, or know that that is not the way, or path, to heaven but if one does not seek the "eye" of an evildoer, that does not mean he (one-eye) will go to hell.

Yes, I understand the hypocrisy of the bible, as well as the hypocrisy of those who don't follow it and then claim they are of that religion.

Another aspect of your "declaration of Christianity" that seems bizarre is human failing.

You're seriously mistaken when you state this is my "declaration of Christianity" - it is a declaration from your god to you.

Humans aren't perfect, they will make mistakes and violate the Bible.

So what? If your god knows all and sees all, he will surely recognize them for their mistakes, just as he will recognize those who do not obey his commands.

For argument sake, consider the Bible as more of an instruction manual rather than a final exam.

Ok, so why don't you and other theists follow the instruction manual?

Must you follow every letter of the Bible? You could, and because of human failings, you probably might still get it wrong.

How is that possible? The word of your god is perfect, is it not? It is crystal clear in it's message, is it not? Are you stating that the word of god is fallible and you question it's validity?

Where do you get your definition of a Christian, by the way?

From the bible, where do you get yours?

My level of understanding of a Christian was that of a follower and practitioner of the teachings of Jesus Christ, who cherishs the old and new testament as their religous doctrine, the divinely inspired human word of God.

Then, if you follow and obey the word of your god, I see no problem with you calling yourself a Christian.

Yet, you argue that you don't follow it. So, what is it, do you follow the word of your god or not?

 

[(Q)]

Christians believe they are imbued with a bit of God called the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is what guides us as we go throught the bible, pointing out the things that pertain to us individually.

Christians might disagree with you.

(In 2 Peter 3:16, the apostle warns about the dangers of distorting the Word of God. Those who distort it do so “to their own destruction.”) Remember: The Bible is God's Word. Do not add to it or subtract from it! Do not change what it says. Accept it as it is! (See Proverbs 30:5–6; Matthew 5:19; Mark 7:5–13; Revelation 22:18–19.)

\http://www.journal33.org/bible/html/tbgw.htm

If you won't believe without an impossible proof, then describing it to you is like describing blue to a blind man. You might get the concepts, but the experience is beyond you, unless you choose to try to believe.

Sure, you can choose to try to believe in the bogyman, too.

 

[(Q)]

Finally, Try to keep in mind... The Bible is a COLLECTION OF WRITINGS!!!!! It's less a book than a library. Some individual books are thought to have multiple authors-Isaiah, and Psalms being prime examples. Some books are thought to have been dictated, Paul's writings. It's commonly thought the first 5 books of the OT were written by Moses, or at his direction. This "It's all or nothing" drivel is weak garbage. The only reason you don't think so stems from the fact that you haven't done any study of the bible yourself.

So, you'll be quoting all the passages that Christians are supposed to believe and all the passages they can ignore? We await your divine intervention.

 

[azriel]

The book says "don't be surprised when the world hates you" so you aren't affecting me by calling me names. It also says "if the blind lead the blind, won't they both fall into a ditch" ergo as you lead your blind followers down the democratic road to destruction, I'll just sit in my free apartment and watch while your whole world collapses. Yes, I know I'm crazy but have you picked up a newspaper lately, brainiac

 

[Lori_7]

Lori, how do you define sin? This question arose because your seemingly negative views of morality.

a transgression of law. kinda like a crime i suppose. i think there's a state of perfect balance and equilibrium that can be reached within the universe that would create an eternal life so, if we quit fucking that all up we'll live forever.

i also think that the propensity to do so is like a birth defect for us right now, and that seems to have to do with a broken covenant and lack of communion with god. one that will one day be restored by the blood of christ somehow.

i have a negative view of morality because as i said, i think that much of it is man-made to serve his purpose...to judge, and to segregate. i don't get the impression that mankind has a good idea about what god's laws are, so they can't possibly determine what sin is. much of what the organized religions of this world have determined is nothing more than a power play and it's mostly based upon greed, lust, pride...you know...sin. how many religious people do you know who have a tendency to be judgemental based upon what they've determined to constitute as sin? i think lots of people become indoctrinated just so they can judge each other. themselves. i'm better than you. jesus loves me more cause i'm good and you're not. i'm going to heaven because i walk, talk, eat, and shit a certain way and you won't because you don't. it makes me sick. jesus wasn't like that. and judging others is something that he did not condone. i think that jesus and god are extremely misrepresented in today's world and have been for a long time. since jesus died i guess. but all it really takes is some common sense, an open heart, and some intentions that are good and honest to see that jesus had it going on, and he still does.

 

[Lori_7]

Now hold on.. you are taking that literal. How can you know that it isn't just some story someone made up a long time ago for whatever reason ?

i don't know that and would never ever claim to...that's my point. all i know is what has happened to me...what i have experienced, and because of that i can relate to this story. that is why the bible is meaningful to me. because i can relate to the things it tells of due to my own experience. shit there have been times when i would swear i was reading the story of my life in it. but it isn't my life, and that just goes to show that maybe it tells of univeral truths.

Most Christians have no choice; they are raised with religion.

i'm sorry but that's fucking bullshit man. everyone has a choice in this life. i was raised by racists. i'm not a fucking racist. now my dad isn't either. ha!

 

[scorpius]

In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth.

thnx for sharing your MYTHology.

xian god doesnt exist

http://www.evilbible.com/Impossible.htm

 

[Lori_7]

Now hold on.. you are taking that literal. How can you know that it isn't just some story someone made up a long time ago for whatever reason ?

also enmos, i've gotta say that god has used many things, not just the bible, to teach me and show me things. he's used other people, and various works of art, especially music. have you ever heard a song and thought, "my god, how did they know?" like they wrote it about you? i sure as hell have. and not in a metaphorical, "i can relate", kind of way, but in a, "oh my god, they wrote this song about me. who's watching me?" kind of way. i also relate to a hindu goddess named kali quite a bit. and to mary, both mother and wife.

 

[Lori_7]

1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,


2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.


3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.


4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.


5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.


6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.


7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.


8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.


9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.


10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.


11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.


12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.


13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.


14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.


15 And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.


16 A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.


17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.


18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.


19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.


20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.


21 And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.


22 Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.

demons breeding with humans. creating "men of renown". i don't think this is the only time it's happened, or the last. and so he destroyed the earth. and noah was chosen because his bloodline was pure. the blood, the blood, it all comes back to the blood. where our genetic code is held and manipulated. i think that the same activity is going on right now on this earth. what does it say? that in the last days, it will be like the time of noah, so he'll do it again.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

god has used many things, not just the bible, to teach me and show me things. he's used other people, and various works of art, especially music. have you ever heard a song and thought, "my god, how did they know?" like they wrote it about you? i sure as hell have. and not in a metaphorical, "i can relate", kind of way, but in a, "oh my god, they wrote this song about me. who's watching me?" kind of way. i also relate to a hindu goddess named kali quite a bit. and to mary, both mother and wife.

This is the quintessential believer post. It speaks volumes. Copies of it should hang in every church foyer.

If it is satire then it s very good satire.

 

[Not my puppy]

WHAT? Made up creation

Shut your mouth.

 

[Enmos]

i don't know that and would never ever claim to...that's my point. all i know is what has happened to me...what i have experienced, and because of that i can relate to this story. that is why the bible is meaningful to me. because i can relate to the things it tells of due to my own experience. shit there have been times when i would swear i was reading the story of my life in it. but it isn't my life, and that just goes to show that maybe it tells of univeral truths.

You have gone full circle.

i'm sorry but that's fucking bullshit man. everyone has a choice in this life. i was raised by racists. i'm not a fucking racist. now my dad isn't either. ha!

It's not bullshit at all.
Children who are raised in a religious environment are predisposed to religion and are almost certain to be believers in the same religion as their parents and they are FAR more likely to be believers later in life than people from non-religious environments.
Of course they have a choice later in life but the "damage" has already been done.

 

[Mr. Hamtastic]

Not much time, lots to do today, but looking at the chapter in question, it comes across like a thought starts, then a new thought starts. Sons of God? Weird term to use for fallen angels, I think. What were they? dunno. Giants? What was the average height back then? God having regrets? It doesn't fit into the omni-everything God. This is a big piece of why I mark this up as a "story" literally. You can go down the road of bloodlines, you can go down the road that the Ark was a spaceship, if you want to. I choose to avoid those paths entirely, as they don't influence salvation.

 

[Enmos]

Hammie, I don't understand. Please explain..
You get the notion of God through the bible, either directly or indirectly. Agree ?
Next, you reject the source.. and retain the notion of God.. I mean.. HUH ?

 

[Mr. Hamtastic]

Enmos-Remember? Bible is less a book than a library? If I go to my library I can get fiction and txtbooks on biology. I may get the concept of biology from the fiction first, then I go get textbooks on it. I'm not rejecting the library at all.

 

[Enmos]

Enmos-Remember? Bible is less a book than a library? If I go to my library I can get fiction and txtbooks on biology. I may get the concept of biology from the fiction first, then I go get textbooks on it. I'm not rejecting the library at all.

But they all revolve around the same basic subject; God.
If you reject the key elements of God in the bible, how can you not reject the notion of God itself ?

 

[jayleew]

So, your god IS NOT the authority? You don't obey your god? You don't obey the bible? You are therefore not a Christian.

There are no gods. I try to follow the ethics of a man called Jesus Christ (mythological or not). I'm not a Christian stereotypically, but literally....maybe.

 

[Enmos]

There are no gods. I try to follow the ethics of a man called Jesus Christ (mythological or not). I'm not a Christian stereotypically, but literally....maybe.

Ok, then why did you pick Jesus specifically ? Don't you have a mind of your own ?