Enmos
Valued Senior Member
I want to highlight a single sentence from your post:
"But, if any part of the Bible is suspect, it makes other parts suspect."
Quite true. Now the question is where do theists get their notion of God from ?
The christian Bible...
- Thread starter Mr. Hamtastic
- Start date
I want to highlight a single sentence from your post:
"But, if any part of the Bible is suspect, it makes other parts suspect."
Quite true. Now the question is where do theists get their notion of God from ?
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
It's truly amazing how quickly theists go scurrying off to hide their heads in the sand when faced with this issue.
Not only are we forced to have to deal with their biblical scriptural nonsense, but we are forced to deal with whatever they imagine they want to believe.
And, then they demand respect for their religious beliefs!
Well I respect anyone's personal beliefs as long as they don't try to sell it off as fact, or worse, try to force their beliefs on me.
what i don't really get, and maybe you guys could explain it to me, is why is it so deadly important to either believe everything or nothing that's in the bible? and just because it is written there, with no explanation, no experience, no understanding...just believe it or die! that makes no sense to me, and i don't understand how religious people can attest to such a belief and expect others to as well, and i don't understand why others believe the religious people in regards to it! why can't we, as individuals, live our lives, and take our experiences, and our thoughts, and feelings, and our educations, history, and sacred writings, and draw our own conclusions? why can't we say to ourselves, "i don't know."?
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
So, your god IS NOT the authority? You don't obey your god? You don't obey the bible? You are therefore not a Christian.
Lori, have you read the bible? It states in there that you are to follow and obey your god and the bible. Where do you get the idea this has anything to do with you or us? If you don't believe the bible, you are not a Christian.
That is what is written there, do you not agree with it?
It doesn't matter if it makes sense to you or me or anyone else, it simply is the way it is and you are to obey and follow. There is no questioning or negotiations on your part whatsoever.
Go ahead and do so. But, you cannot call yourself a Christian nor can you hold up the bible as your guide if you refuse to follow it. In other words, you can't have your cake and expect to go to heaven.
Because if you don't know, you're not a theist
why is it so important to say "i'm a theist" or "i'm an atheist" or "i'm a baptist" or "i'm a homosexual"? why is it so important for people to classify and label?
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Because words have a meaning. If you say "I believe in God". Then I have a word that describes that. I can't help it either.
But if you don't want to label yourself, why would you have a problem with me saying that you are not a theist if you're not sure whether or not God exists ?
i just have a problem with conformity and labels i suppose. i have a problem with people attesting to things that they don't really know about or have no experience with. how can someone read about god and jesus in a book even if it's the bible, and just decide whether or not to believe it and then go and judge others and condemn others for not? i have had things happen to me. things that indicate the existence of a spiritual realm or some plane that's a different one from the one i see and touch and feel. these things have also indicated to me that the bible has some validity to it. but without things like these happening to me, all i would know is that it was written in a book and was known or experienced by someone else. why shouldn't i have that same privilege? like that of noah, or of abraham, who heard god's voice, and lived through some experience that showed them on a personal level, beyond any doubt (to themselves) as to what they believe? what i have experienced i've often equated with the story of noah. sometimes i feel like i'm building an ark and the people around me are scoffing, and sneering, and thinking i'm a crazy person. but i don't care what people think, because i know what i know from my own experience. there is no way i could believe what i do just because i read it in some book, or because someone else testified to me. i just couldn't do it. not that i would doubt their testimony, i just would want to have mine.
mynameisDan
Registered Senior Member
It is because beliefs have consequences.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Now hold on.. you are taking that literal. How can you know that it isn't just some story someone made up a long time ago for whatever reason ?
And that is exactly what the story is supposed to convey according to some Christians.
Most Christians have no choice; they are raised with religion.
Was not the gift of Christ to man a way for humans to get to heaven, through forgiveness and his teachings, that allowed for not abiding by not following every tenet in the Bible?
Isn't it so that you must abide by the ten commandments, and if you break one you must seek forgiveness, or know that that is not the way, or path, to heaven but if one does not seek the "eye" of an evildoer, that does not mean he (one-eye) will go to hell.
Another aspect of your "declaration of Christianity" that seems bizarre is human failing. Humans aren't perfect, they will make mistakes and violate the Bible. For argument sake, consider the Bible as more of an instruction manual rather than a final exam. Must you follow every letter of the Bible? You could, and because of human failings, you probably might still get it wrong.
Where do you get your definition of a Christian, by the way? Is it a religous source? A link to it's source would be helpful.
My level of understanding of a Christian was that of a follower and practitioner of the teachings of Jesus Christ, who cherishs the old and new testament as their religous doctrine, the divinely inspired human word of God.
Simple, the bible is the only single source in which one can find out about about god and jesus. If you grew up never hearing or reading of them, you would never know anything about them.
And it is yours, indistinguishable from your own imagination, just like every other theist.
But, that in no way makes you a Christian. The god of the bible commands obedience and worship. You can't simply call yourself that which you don't follow.
Every time I'm not here to babysit you people, you all just run amok. Yeesh.
Enmos-I'll address you, maybe you can explain it to Q for me. Christians believe they are imbued with a bit of God called the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is what guides us as we go throught the bible, pointing out the things that pertain to us individually. If you won't believe without an impossible proof, then describing it to you is like describing blue to a blind man. You might get the concepts, but the experience is beyond you, unless you choose to try to believe. As far as how many christians have read the Bible, I can only speak from personal experience. I have. 5 times. This will be six, unless I die before we're done. The problem is that I am posting a hyperlink. I will try to post the text when reasonable.
BTW-I hate numbers, so when we get there I may hyperlink 5 chapters or more at a time. I'm not an accountant, so I don't get off on numbers much.
Enmos-I'll address you, maybe you can explain it to Q for me. Christians believe they are imbued with a bit of God called the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is what guides us as we go throught the bible, pointing out the things that pertain to us individually. If you won't believe without an impossible proof, then describing it to you is like describing blue to a blind man. You might get the concepts, but the experience is beyond you, unless you choose to try to believe. As far as how many christians have read the Bible, I can only speak from personal experience. I have. 5 times. This will be six, unless I die before we're done. The problem is that I am posting a hyperlink. I will try to post the text when reasonable.
BTW-I hate numbers, so when we get there I may hyperlink 5 chapters or more at a time. I'm not an accountant, so I don't get off on numbers much.
Q-speak of that which you know...so be quiet.
Lori-Q is a massively weak debater, thus it's all or nothing for him. Enmos is ok, just very probing. As long as you're honest, you'll be ok, if not, enmos will go on forever and chase you around the board screaming epithets. You answered the question about discernment, so did I. I'm just referring them to my previous post from now on.
Finally, Try to keep in mind... The Bible is a COLLECTION OF WRITINGS!!!!! It's less a book than a library. Some individual books are thought to have multiple authors-Isaiah, and Psalms being prime examples. Some books are thought to have been dictated, Paul's writings. It's commonly thought the first 5 books of the OT were written by Moses, or at his direction. This "It's all or nothing" drivel is weak garbage. The only reason you don't think so stems from the fact that you haven't done any study of the bible yourself.
Where were we? Chapter 6?