Hi Tony1,
Sorry I have not been able to debate more with you recently, I’m still snowed under here at work, but you deserve more from me.
Ignorance and superstition are overwhelming today. So how do those days differ from these days?
Most people in the world now receive significantly more education compared to 2000 years ago. This has reduced ignorance by a large degree. Superstitions are generally only believed by people who have no way to determine truth or fallacy. Ignorance is the seed of gullibility. Religions depend on people being ignorant.
If you claim to be an intellectual today, and claim that there wern't any in those days, then you must be a very evolved person.
I don’t recall making such claims. The primary, and relative, difference between 2000 years ago and now is our standards of education and information technology. Knowledge and information are able to replace ignorance. Our intellectual abilities have not changed in any significant manner but we are now far better informed and hence are more able to make better decisions and choices.
Are you also far superior to all of the people of the past, as well as to most of those alive today?
I am little different to my ancestors of recent millennia or to anyone alive today. But I do have access to a vast knowledge base, and the abilities to understand it, facilities that were simply not available just a few centuries ago.
Since you don't believe in any of this stuff, what do you mean by "god," "mystical" and "ghost?"
Every religionist appears to have their own personal perception of a god, or a soul, or spirit, or nature of being. All these concepts can be grouped under the heading of supernatural. None are supported by unambiguous and credible proofs.
I couldn’t determine what you were referencing by this.
Some claims may not be unsupported, they may simply be beyond the ability of some to comprehend.
I agree that some people of limited intelligence will have difficulty understanding complex issues. Can we assume then that if such people cannot understand complex religious concepts and therefore reject them then your god will not accept them? You are implying that Christianity is only for the elite. No I am sure you do not mean that.
The less intelligent among us do tend to realize their own limitations and are usually content to be led by others. These represent the base fodder for superstitions and religions. Another view is that the support for religious claims is so incomprehensible that only the stupid would believe them.
No, I think your claim of inability to understand must mean something other than lack of intelligence. But I am not sure what that could be. If the support for a claim, i.e. the evidential proof, is unambiguous, substantial, and can withstand significant and sustained examination, then that support should be acceptable to at least the moderately intelligent among us, e.g. most of us here at sciforums. Or are you claiming that your intelligence and therefore your ability to understand is superior to ours; are you one of the Christian elite?
You may be very willing to define your own intellect as being superior to all others, but I'm not willing to accept such an assumption.
No that is not what I have said or claimed. It is not a matter of superiority of intellect but a fundamental question of whether one should use ones intellect or not. Loone is saying that the human intellect causes confusion when examining supernatural matters and so must be ignored. I simply find that a preposterous and ludicrous requirement.
Before I answer this, how are your thoughts independent from those of other atheists?
I share at least one single thought with all other atheists, a disbelief in the existence of a god or gods. Like most atheists I came by my conclusion independently because there are no groups of atheists trying to convert me to their way of thinking. Atheism isn’t an organized religion. My above average intelligence, my education, and the experiences of my life, have taught me to be wary of charlatans, salesmen, tricksters, politicians, and anyone who wants me to do as THEY wish. Put another way, I need to see proof of a personal benefit before I accept what anyone wants to sell me. The actuality of eternal life is by far the biggest item that could be sold, but the salesmen I meet (the religionists) can offer me no proof that they have this commodity for sale. Please, please, show me some proof because I would love to believe. But until you can show me proof then you remain classed with all the other charlatans, tricksters, and politicians who offer empty promises.
Cris
"The 'wisdom of men' is foolishness in the site of GOD!" You just reminded me of the ancient King "Nebuchadnezzar", he was boasting one day of how great he was, his greatness and glory and splender of his kingdom. But he soon went 'mad' (smote by God), and went running around like a wild animal, eating the grass like a cow or some grazing animal , and that lasted for years before he miraculously regained his scenes! Nebuchadnezzar was an ancient king of Babylon. "Pride goes' before a fall"! 