lol! Good one, tony1!
The Anti-Christ?
- Thread starter Ariadne2525
- Start date
lol! Good one, tony1!
Tony1, ariadne2525,
Anti-nothing is not far from the truth. If we consider that Christianity is based on nothing of substance, and quite literally, since gods are immaterial, invisible and silent; properties that match those of something that does not exist, i.e. nothingness.
But on a more serious note, the very real philosophy of Christianity is not ‘nothing’. It is a set of dangerous ignorant beliefs that threaten the progress of the human race and must be opposed. So I stand for those very real principles that oppose those doctrines, I am very much an anti-Christian, and if the concept of a Christ represents those doctrines then I must be an anti-Christ.
Show me how your god differs from the definition of nothing, together with some credible evidence. Otherwise you could be right and I am opposing nothing, but more importantly is the inverse that you are by far worse because you are the believers of nothing.
Cris
Anti-nothing is not far from the truth. If we consider that Christianity is based on nothing of substance, and quite literally, since gods are immaterial, invisible and silent; properties that match those of something that does not exist, i.e. nothingness.
But on a more serious note, the very real philosophy of Christianity is not ‘nothing’. It is a set of dangerous ignorant beliefs that threaten the progress of the human race and must be opposed. So I stand for those very real principles that oppose those doctrines, I am very much an anti-Christian, and if the concept of a Christ represents those doctrines then I must be an anti-Christ.
Show me how your god differs from the definition of nothing, together with some credible evidence. Otherwise you could be right and I am opposing nothing, but more importantly is the inverse that you are by far worse because you are the believers of nothing.
Cris
It didn't take long for this portion of the thread to get to where the rubber meets the road.
You do realize that if I am a believer in nothing that would make me the ultimate skeptic.
Thus, my position is ironclad, rock-solid and unshakeable.
If I'm right, I win from a "religious" perspective.
If I am found to have believed in nothing, then I am the ultimate skeptic, far surpassing the current state-of-the-art in skepticism.
Antichristians and atheists are forced to define their entire existence and belief system in terms of God and/or Christ, but opposite.
This leads to the strange paradox that atheism is based on a belief in God, but not.
And antichristianity is based on a belief in Christ, but not.
My, but aren't we humans such fickle things. Always full of contradictions, and always ending up back where we started. 
it's amazing we've survived thus far.
To me "religion" is where someone takes a belief too far, and centers his/her entire life around it. I am a Christian by belief, but I don't go to Church every Wednesday, Tuesday, and Sunday. In fact, I don't go to church because I don't like the way many of them preach and so forth. So I don't consider myself "religious". I have a belief, I believe it and I go on with life. Simple.
But it's belief in a higher being that keep us humans going, ya know? We believe that someone up top is watching us, and will help us when we need him/her/it to. That's what causes so many atheists. When something does go wrong, or when someone dies, or they're just having a horrible day, they wonder where's God now? ^_^ It's funny how even atheist seem to believe in God...
(I know I've made no sense, but that's how I am, it seems.)
it's amazing we've survived thus far.To me "religion" is where someone takes a belief too far, and centers his/her entire life around it. I am a Christian by belief, but I don't go to Church every Wednesday, Tuesday, and Sunday. In fact, I don't go to church because I don't like the way many of them preach and so forth. So I don't consider myself "religious". I have a belief, I believe it and I go on with life. Simple.
But it's belief in a higher being that keep us humans going, ya know? We believe that someone up top is watching us, and will help us when we need him/her/it to. That's what causes so many atheists. When something does go wrong, or when someone dies, or they're just having a horrible day, they wonder where's God now? ^_^ It's funny how even atheist seem to believe in God...
(I know I've made no sense, but that's how I am, it seems.)
Ariadne
"(I know I've made no sense, but that's how I am, it seems.)"
Yup that's for sure but I understand.
But when things go wrong I do not call on any god, I simply look to myself as I am usually the one in error. In other words I take personal responsibility for my actions and their repercussions. Do I assume that you would blame your god when things go wrong in the same way that you would praise him when things go right?
Take care.
Cris
"(I know I've made no sense, but that's how I am, it seems.)"
Yup that's for sure but I understand.
But when things go wrong I do not call on any god, I simply look to myself as I am usually the one in error. In other words I take personal responsibility for my actions and their repercussions. Do I assume that you would blame your god when things go wrong in the same way that you would praise him when things go right?
Take care.
Cris
That would be that paradox thing, like where atheists actually believe in God, but not.
Of course, if your actions lead to your own death, the responsibility issue becomes moot.
Answering only for myself, since I don't praise him just because things go right, I don't blame him just because things go wrong.
[This message has been edited by tony1 (edited February 19, 2001).]
I don't blame God when things go wrong, and I don't neccesarily praise Him when things are goin' good. I may thank him for giving me life, and giving me my family, but that would happen in good times and bad. God can't be blamed for the things I choose to say and do. I am a human being with the ability to make my own choices with or without the influence of God. If God was there to make all of our decisions for us, then why did he give us a brain period? Religous people say that you should pray to God to tell you what to do, and that's one of the things they preach, therefore that's why I prefer not to attend church.
Just because God knows all that's going to happen and all that has happened, doesn't mean that He decided what was going to happen. He just knows what happened from our human decisions.
(As you can probably tell, I'm not your average Christian. I'm just a completely twisted person, so it's only suiting that my beliefs and opinions should be twisted, too, I suppose. )
Just because God knows all that's going to happen and all that has happened, doesn't mean that He decided what was going to happen. He just knows what happened from our human decisions.
(As you can probably tell, I'm not your average Christian. I'm just a completely twisted person, so it's only suiting that my beliefs and opinions should be twisted, too, I suppose.
)
Ariadne,
Judging from your posts I wouldn’t consider that you are twisted; in fact you sound quite sane and reasonable. If you need a criticism then I might suggest that all you need is to think things through a little more – you might be lazy maybe but nothing worse.
But I know the type of Christians you mention, it seems that every action is the will of God, quite infuriating right? And you’re right, if he gave us the ability to criticize and analyze then he only has himself to blame if we decide to exercise those talents.
So I won’t push you but I’ll leave you with a teaser.
This is a reference to omniscience, the claim that God has perfect and infallible knowledge of all future events. Now consider that this means that he knew/knows with perfect accuracy absolutely every decision you will make long before you were even born. Since it is claimed that this God created the universe and you, then what makes you think that you have any choice in any of your decisions? Since he knows them all beforehand then all your actions are perfectly pre-determined. You effectively have no choice but to do exactly what he planned long ago. What you think is free will is just an illusion.
Do you agree?
Have fun
Cris
Judging from your posts I wouldn’t consider that you are twisted; in fact you sound quite sane and reasonable. If you need a criticism then I might suggest that all you need is to think things through a little more – you might be lazy maybe but nothing worse.
But I know the type of Christians you mention, it seems that every action is the will of God, quite infuriating right? And you’re right, if he gave us the ability to criticize and analyze then he only has himself to blame if we decide to exercise those talents.
So I won’t push you but I’ll leave you with a teaser.
This is a reference to omniscience, the claim that God has perfect and infallible knowledge of all future events. Now consider that this means that he knew/knows with perfect accuracy absolutely every decision you will make long before you were even born. Since it is claimed that this God created the universe and you, then what makes you think that you have any choice in any of your decisions? Since he knows them all beforehand then all your actions are perfectly pre-determined. You effectively have no choice but to do exactly what he planned long ago. What you think is free will is just an illusion.
Do you agree?
Have fun
Cris
Just because they are predetermined doesn't mean squat. I still made them. God just happens to know the decision before I make it. In fact, this happens among humans constantly. Like when a mother knows her child so well, she knows beforehand what that child might say and do. Or between best friends. I know that I've been able to "predict" what my b/f will say, but that doesn't mean that she didn't choose what to say, did it?
Ariadne,
I don’t know if you’ve ever written a computer program, if not then this might not have the same impact. But I’ve been writing code since 1969. I know with absolute certainty that if am aware of all the inputs to a given program then I can predict with absolute certainty the exact outputs from that program. All the decisions made in the program were completely determined by the nature of the inputs. So the fact that the program actually made choices and decisions is irrelevant since they were only because that is what the input data determined.
If God created your entire environment and also knows with 100% certainty the outcome of all decisions then you cannot make any claim to free will anymore than a computer program. You have been pre-programmed by your God. He will have created all the inputs that force you to make specific decisions according to his plan.
It is true that you made your own decisions, but if God is omniscient then you had no choice in those decisions. You made those choices because you were programmed to do so. If your God existed then you would be no more than a puppet.
Cris
I don’t know if you’ve ever written a computer program, if not then this might not have the same impact. But I’ve been writing code since 1969. I know with absolute certainty that if am aware of all the inputs to a given program then I can predict with absolute certainty the exact outputs from that program. All the decisions made in the program were completely determined by the nature of the inputs. So the fact that the program actually made choices and decisions is irrelevant since they were only because that is what the input data determined.
If God created your entire environment and also knows with 100% certainty the outcome of all decisions then you cannot make any claim to free will anymore than a computer program. You have been pre-programmed by your God. He will have created all the inputs that force you to make specific decisions according to his plan.
It is true that you made your own decisions, but if God is omniscient then you had no choice in those decisions. You made those choices because you were programmed to do so. If your God existed then you would be no more than a puppet.
Cris
Tony,
What is this garbage!!!
Belief system?? Forced?? Entire Existence?? Opposite??
Belief system: Atheism is not a belief system. As an atheist I simply do not believe your claim that a god exists. That is very different from my claiming that I believe a god doesn’t exist. You are the one making the claim, and I am simply disbelieving your claim. I am not making any claims neither am I invoking a set of beliefs.
Forced: If we look at Christianity then we see that its members are indeed forced to take many actions that would be unnecessary otherwise. E.g. praying, attending church, recognizing a savior, worrying about sin, feeling guilt from sin, fear of hell. I on the other hand am free to do as I wish without any coercion or force being applied.
Entire existence: Without having to be concerned with religious doctrines I am free to spend ALL my time on more productive pursuits, unlike the Christian whose entire existence and life is given to religious devotion of a supernatural emptiness.
Opposite: The syntax of your sentence implies that the second phrase ‘ but opposite’ negates the first part ‘forced, belief system, entire existence, god and Christ, etc’. So I agree I am not any of those things or take part in those things. So to be sure I understand your assertion I’ll state my position more clearly and positively –
My entire existence does not involve me being forced to maintain a belief system in terms of God and/or Christ in any way whatsoever.
This is utter drivel and not worthy of further comment.
Cris
What is this garbage!!!
Belief system?? Forced?? Entire Existence?? Opposite??
Belief system: Atheism is not a belief system. As an atheist I simply do not believe your claim that a god exists. That is very different from my claiming that I believe a god doesn’t exist. You are the one making the claim, and I am simply disbelieving your claim. I am not making any claims neither am I invoking a set of beliefs.
Forced: If we look at Christianity then we see that its members are indeed forced to take many actions that would be unnecessary otherwise. E.g. praying, attending church, recognizing a savior, worrying about sin, feeling guilt from sin, fear of hell. I on the other hand am free to do as I wish without any coercion or force being applied.
Entire existence: Without having to be concerned with religious doctrines I am free to spend ALL my time on more productive pursuits, unlike the Christian whose entire existence and life is given to religious devotion of a supernatural emptiness.
Opposite: The syntax of your sentence implies that the second phrase ‘ but opposite’ negates the first part ‘forced, belief system, entire existence, god and Christ, etc’. So I agree I am not any of those things or take part in those things. So to be sure I understand your assertion I’ll state my position more clearly and positively –
My entire existence does not involve me being forced to maintain a belief system in terms of God and/or Christ in any way whatsoever.
This is utter drivel and not worthy of further comment.
Cris
Nope, never have.
Yes, God created me. Yes, I was specifically designed. Yes, He knows all that will happen to me. But this doesn't take away from my concious decision. A bad way of putting it is, "I'm playing into His hand."
Actually, "puppet" is sort of a good way to describe humans. That's really all our physical bodies are, and our souls are the hands moving the puppets. That's why I don't totally disbelieve "reincarnation". (sp?)
And I noticed the "if your God existed". I for one, see no reason why he shouldn't exist. Ya don't see people waltzing around claiming air doesn't exist, now do ya? (and if anyone does then they're probably mental)
[This message has been edited by Ariadne2525 (edited February 19, 2001).]
Ariadne,
Ah I see I'm not going to be able to convince you on the non free will bit, and it looks like you don't mind anyway. Oh well, I enjoyed trying. You sound like a Taurus.
Ah but I can prove that air exists through appropriate scientific tests. On the other hand no one has ever been able to construct a test that shows that any type of god exists.
So I do not see any reason why a god should exist, and since there is no way to show that one does exist then it seems more sensible to live without that particular, seemingly, useless belief.
Have fun
Cris
[This message has been edited by Cris (edited February 19, 2001).]
Ah I see I'm not going to be able to convince you on the non free will bit, and it looks like you don't mind anyway. Oh well, I enjoyed trying. You sound like a Taurus.
Ah but I can prove that air exists through appropriate scientific tests. On the other hand no one has ever been able to construct a test that shows that any type of god exists.
So I do not see any reason why a god should exist, and since there is no way to show that one does exist then it seems more sensible to live without that particular, seemingly, useless belief.
Have fun
Cris
[This message has been edited by Cris (edited February 19, 2001).]
I can think of some good evidence.
The universe. The Milky Way. Earth and all her plants and animals working together in sychronized harmony. We aren't some huge cosmic accident. Someone designed every little detail of our world, and we'd be fools to think that whoever did is anything but a God.
BTW, I'm an Aries.
Ariadne,
For every event there is a single unique cause, unless we are talking about infinity, which is a special case, ignore that for now. All the time there are seemingly equal multiple potential and credible explanations for an event then no claim can be made for an accurate cause.
The Earth, plants, animals, etc we can explain through evolutionary processes, and so the need for a designer does not exist. We now have multiple potential causes, yours and mine, I would go on to argue that yours (a god) is not credible, since it introduces unnecessary complexity, at the very least, and has no independent demonstrable evidence of existence.
Evolutionary processes can also explain the Milky Way, other galaxies, and other cosmic bodies, and their positions size and shapes.
We as yet cannot explain the cause of the universe. If there was a cause. And this brings us to a question of infinity. Infinity is something that has no beginning or end and anything with the property of infinity cannot have been created (i.e. has no beginning). The simplest explanation is that the universe is infinite. Your claim will be that your god is infinite and created the universe. Since my suggestion rests purely on understandable and natural phenomena, then my solution is more credible than yours, which rests on the existence of the supernatural, of which we have no comprehension or evidence.
So you see there are no good reasons to suppose a god exists and in fact all the alternatives are much simpler and more credible.
Aries huh! Thanks.
Have fun
Cris
[This message has been edited by Cris (edited February 19, 2001).]
For every event there is a single unique cause, unless we are talking about infinity, which is a special case, ignore that for now. All the time there are seemingly equal multiple potential and credible explanations for an event then no claim can be made for an accurate cause.
The Earth, plants, animals, etc we can explain through evolutionary processes, and so the need for a designer does not exist. We now have multiple potential causes, yours and mine, I would go on to argue that yours (a god) is not credible, since it introduces unnecessary complexity, at the very least, and has no independent demonstrable evidence of existence.
Evolutionary processes can also explain the Milky Way, other galaxies, and other cosmic bodies, and their positions size and shapes.
We as yet cannot explain the cause of the universe. If there was a cause. And this brings us to a question of infinity. Infinity is something that has no beginning or end and anything with the property of infinity cannot have been created (i.e. has no beginning). The simplest explanation is that the universe is infinite. Your claim will be that your god is infinite and created the universe. Since my suggestion rests purely on understandable and natural phenomena, then my solution is more credible than yours, which rests on the existence of the supernatural, of which we have no comprehension or evidence.
So you see there are no good reasons to suppose a god exists and in fact all the alternatives are much simpler and more credible.
Aries huh! Thanks.
Have fun
Cris
[This message has been edited by Cris (edited February 19, 2001).]
Where do you come up with the notion that the universe is infinite????
I'd pretty much argue with all your post.
There is a ton of evidence for design and there is a lot of evidence verifying the Christian faith.
"So you see there are no good reasons to suppose a god exists and in fact all the alternatives are much simpler and more credible."
They are not more credible and Occam's razor does not disrove the existence of God.
". Since my suggestion rests purely on understandable and natural phenomena, then my solution is more credible than yours, which rests on the existence of the supernatural, of which we have no comprehension or evidence."
If the evidence was lacking as you suggest then your solution would be more credible.
Vinnie
I'd pretty much argue with all your post.
There is a ton of evidence for design and there is a lot of evidence verifying the Christian faith.
"So you see there are no good reasons to suppose a god exists and in fact all the alternatives are much simpler and more credible."
They are not more credible and Occam's razor does not disrove the existence of God.
". Since my suggestion rests purely on understandable and natural phenomena, then my solution is more credible than yours, which rests on the existence of the supernatural, of which we have no comprehension or evidence."
If the evidence was lacking as you suggest then your solution would be more credible.
Vinnie
Vinnie,
Gosh, where have you been? Lots of people have suggested that the universe might be infinite. I can’t believe you haven’t heard this before.
But I’m not claiming here that the universe is infinite just that the idea is more credible than an invisible immaterial super-thing that no one can properly define, or at least no two people seem to be able to agree on a definition. And then of course this thing is meant to be infinite as well, or do you disagree that your god thing is infinite?
Nah, really?
Yes but for every argument for design there is an equal if not more superior argument against design.
I have no doubt that Christians believe on faith, you have no choice, the alternative is reason and that can’t work for you. But that isn’t what you meant is it? You want to define faith in a way that makes Christianity appear rational. Well here I’d say that my Collins English dictionary sums up faith quite nicely – (1) strong or unshakable belief in something especially without proof or evidence, (4) a conviction of the truth of certain doctrines of religion especially when this is not based on reason.
I guessed that Ariadne hadn’t hit Occam’s razor yet. But unless you can show proof of a god then without real evidence one way or the other it is always preferable to select the simplest hypothesis first.
I have as much interest in disproving the existence of a god as I have in disproving the existence of rainbow colored flying elephants. Both are futile activities. What is really relevant is you proving your claim that a god does exist.
So show me the simplest possible test you can devise that will prove to me that any god exists or has ever existed. Feel free to draw on any study from the entire history of mankind or the universe.
Cris
[This message has been edited by Cris (edited February 20, 2001).]
Where do you come up with the notion that the universe is infinite????
Gosh, where have you been? Lots of people have suggested that the universe might be infinite. I can’t believe you haven’t heard this before.
But I’m not claiming here that the universe is infinite just that the idea is more credible than an invisible immaterial super-thing that no one can properly define, or at least no two people seem to be able to agree on a definition. And then of course this thing is meant to be infinite as well, or do you disagree that your god thing is infinite?
Nah, really?
Yes but for every argument for design there is an equal if not more superior argument against design.
I have no doubt that Christians believe on faith, you have no choice, the alternative is reason and that can’t work for you. But that isn’t what you meant is it? You want to define faith in a way that makes Christianity appear rational. Well here I’d say that my Collins English dictionary sums up faith quite nicely – (1) strong or unshakable belief in something especially without proof or evidence, (4) a conviction of the truth of certain doctrines of religion especially when this is not based on reason.
I guessed that Ariadne hadn’t hit Occam’s razor yet. But unless you can show proof of a god then without real evidence one way or the other it is always preferable to select the simplest hypothesis first.
I have as much interest in disproving the existence of a god as I have in disproving the existence of rainbow colored flying elephants. Both are futile activities. What is really relevant is you proving your claim that a god does exist.
So show me the simplest possible test you can devise that will prove to me that any god exists or has ever existed. Feel free to draw on any study from the entire history of mankind or the universe.
Cris
[This message has been edited by Cris (edited February 20, 2001).]
THis is going to be fun....
"Gosh, where have you been?"
I been ice fishing out in Jersey. I been staying on a glacier right off the coast
" Lots of people have suggested that the universe might be infinite. I can’t believe you haven’t heard this before."
I was just under the impression the steady state theory (or hypothesis or old wives tale) has like uh...whats 0 times 0? Well, that much evidence supporting it.
I'll just mosey back on over to my blind credulous faith while humming the Gilligan's Isaland theme sing which I know by heart
"But I’m not claiming here that the universe is infinite just that the idea is more credible than an invisible immaterial super-thing that no one can properly define,"
Thank you for sharing your opinion. When you start letting loose some facts be sure to let me know
"And then of course this thing is meant to be infinite as well, or do you disagree that your god thing is infinite?"
Infinite as in what? An infinite number of eyeballs? Infinite goodness? Infinite in that God transcends our universe (including time) and does not need to be created and always existed (whatever that means)? Its hard to define a being that transcends the universe. Its best to stick with the revealed information (descriptions of God in the Bible). The Biblical anthropomorphisms will do just fine. Then again, we were created in God's image...
"Yes but for every argument for design there is an equal if not more superior argument against design."
I'll take your word on it
"I have no doubt that Christians believe on faith, you have no choice, the alternative is reason and that can’t work for you. But that isn’t what you meant is it? You want to define faith in a way that makes Christianity appear rational. Well here I’d say that my Collins English dictionary sums up faith quite nicely – (1) strong or unshakable belief in something especially without proof or evidence, (4) a conviction of the truth of certain doctrines of religion especially when this is not based on reason."
And Collin happened to be drunk when he defined that word right? My dictionary on my comp doesn't have anything remotely close to those definitions. Also, the word faith is modified by Christian when I say Christian faith. Its a whole new ballgame regardless of what the dictionary says which mine does not even support your view anyway
Tell Collin to quit imbibing psycotropic agents...
"I guessed that Ariadne hadn’t hit Occam’s razor yet. But unless you can show proof of a god then without real evidence one way or the other it is always preferable to select the simplest hypothesis first."
Thats an amazing methodology you have there. "Whatever I find simpler is more correct. I find god less simpler than an infinite universe therefore the universe is infinite and God doesn't exist."
Well, I find not flushing simpler than flushing. The water has to swirl around and go down and all that complicated, chaotic stuff. Friction occurs, more water must fill it in, all the pipes et cetera. Too many components and complications. Therefore, not flushing your toilet is the preferable potty technique. In the long run flushing may have payed off but right at that moment when your done, utilize Occam's Razor. Its just simpler not to. Don't flush, be logical.
You can call that Vinnie's reductio ad flush em argument. I'm going to go print out some bumper stickers that say:
"Just say NO to Flushing."
Then again, wiping in itself complicates things. For that matter so does even sitting on the toilet...
"I have as much interest in disproving the existence of a god as I have in disproving the existence of rainbow colored flying elephants. Both are futile activities. What is really relevant is you proving your claim that a god does exist."
Just like reverse all that. I have as much interest in disproving a lack of belief in God as...
"So show me the simplest possible test you can devise that will prove to me that any god exists or has ever existed. Feel free to draw on any study from the entire history of mankind or the universe."
[Being serious now]
The simplest? Seek God and you will find Him. That is the experiment. If you trully seek you will find. I can't "convince" you on my own that God is real and can transform you. You have to be willing to let God in.
[End of Being serious]
Lots of love,
Vinnie
------------------
Fred Hoyle (British astrophysicist): "A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question."
"Gosh, where have you been?"
I been ice fishing out in Jersey. I been staying on a glacier right off the coast
" Lots of people have suggested that the universe might be infinite. I can’t believe you haven’t heard this before."
I was just under the impression the steady state theory (or hypothesis or old wives tale) has like uh...whats 0 times 0? Well, that much evidence supporting it.
I'll just mosey back on over to my blind credulous faith while humming the Gilligan's Isaland theme sing which I know by heart
"But I’m not claiming here that the universe is infinite just that the idea is more credible than an invisible immaterial super-thing that no one can properly define,"
Thank you for sharing your opinion. When you start letting loose some facts be sure to let me know
"And then of course this thing is meant to be infinite as well, or do you disagree that your god thing is infinite?"
Infinite as in what? An infinite number of eyeballs? Infinite goodness? Infinite in that God transcends our universe (including time) and does not need to be created and always existed (whatever that means)? Its hard to define a being that transcends the universe. Its best to stick with the revealed information (descriptions of God in the Bible). The Biblical anthropomorphisms will do just fine. Then again, we were created in God's image...
"Yes but for every argument for design there is an equal if not more superior argument against design."
I'll take your word on it
"I have no doubt that Christians believe on faith, you have no choice, the alternative is reason and that can’t work for you. But that isn’t what you meant is it? You want to define faith in a way that makes Christianity appear rational. Well here I’d say that my Collins English dictionary sums up faith quite nicely – (1) strong or unshakable belief in something especially without proof or evidence, (4) a conviction of the truth of certain doctrines of religion especially when this is not based on reason."
And Collin happened to be drunk when he defined that word right? My dictionary on my comp doesn't have anything remotely close to those definitions. Also, the word faith is modified by Christian when I say Christian faith. Its a whole new ballgame regardless of what the dictionary says which mine does not even support your view anyway
Tell Collin to quit imbibing psycotropic agents...
"I guessed that Ariadne hadn’t hit Occam’s razor yet. But unless you can show proof of a god then without real evidence one way or the other it is always preferable to select the simplest hypothesis first."
Thats an amazing methodology you have there. "Whatever I find simpler is more correct. I find god less simpler than an infinite universe therefore the universe is infinite and God doesn't exist."
Well, I find not flushing simpler than flushing. The water has to swirl around and go down and all that complicated, chaotic stuff. Friction occurs, more water must fill it in, all the pipes et cetera. Too many components and complications. Therefore, not flushing your toilet is the preferable potty technique. In the long run flushing may have payed off but right at that moment when your done, utilize Occam's Razor. Its just simpler not to. Don't flush, be logical.
You can call that Vinnie's reductio ad flush em argument. I'm going to go print out some bumper stickers that say:
"Just say NO to Flushing."
Then again, wiping in itself complicates things. For that matter so does even sitting on the toilet...
"I have as much interest in disproving the existence of a god as I have in disproving the existence of rainbow colored flying elephants. Both are futile activities. What is really relevant is you proving your claim that a god does exist."
Just like reverse all that. I have as much interest in disproving a lack of belief in God as...
"So show me the simplest possible test you can devise that will prove to me that any god exists or has ever existed. Feel free to draw on any study from the entire history of mankind or the universe."
[Being serious now]
The simplest? Seek God and you will find Him. That is the experiment. If you trully seek you will find. I can't "convince" you on my own that God is real and can transform you. You have to be willing to let God in.
[End of Being serious]
Lots of love,
Vinnie
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Fred Hoyle (British astrophysicist): "A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question."