Street Harrassment.!!!

What is the main reason you thank Men behave like they did in the OP video.???

  • Nature

  • Nurture

  • Other (please discuss)


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.3% 0f the time
...
If you are drawing conclusions from .3% of the sampled population, and extrapolating that onto the whole of the population, you are in error!
You keep making this comment. On the one hand, 0.3% is 0.3% too often.

On the other hand, she wandered around New York for 10 hours, 600 minutes, and was harrassed 'more than 100 times' (and has subsequently received death threats).

Being harrassed a minimum of 100 times in six hundred minutes is the equivalent of being harrassed once every six minutes, and that's the maximum average time, the actual average is going to be less than that.
 
And I will guarantee you that non-predators do not imagine themselves in other peoples eyes as a potential threat.
None of the people trying to present this stuff as reasonable and OK would treat their employer like that, or any other woman with the power to visit consequences on their harassing ass. So where does the sudden self-awareness come from, when facing consequences?

And if they only abuse the vulnerable, how innocent can they be?
 
Whatever comes to pass, freedom
None of the people trying to present this stuff as reasonable and OK would treat their employer like that, or any other woman with the power to visit consequences on their harassing ass. So where does the sudden self-awareness come from, when facing consequences?

If Bells was my employer, she'd be looking for a new job now!
 
I thought that Conor Friedersdorf’s perspective was reasonable.

"Hollaback's video thankfully caused influential organs of public opinion, like The New York Times, to think something should be done about this problem. But reflexively conflating something should be done with a law should be passed is absurd in this case, where there are so many options other than criminalization and so many reasons to believe a law would do much more harm than good.

Street harassment ought to be stigmatized. But the reflex to throw men who catcall in jail suggests activists who conceive of them as villainous caricatures rather than humans, many of whom who can be engaged, reasoned with, and persuaded."


http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/11/dont-outlaw-catcalling/382323/
 
None of the people trying to present this stuff as reasonable and OK would treat their employer like that, or any other woman with the power to visit consequences on their harassing ass. So where does the sudden self-awareness come from, when facing consequences?
If Bells was my employer, she'd be looking for a new job now!
Self awareness, reading comprehension, basic human intelligence, all so far from adequate for an adult man as to suggest severe mental problems: until their boss enters the room. Then suddenly they know how to behave.
 
Oh, another great reply there, joe. You bring up my supposed dishonesty, but when I call you on it the best you can do is a one word reply.

What are you doing here? You're making yourself look worse with every post.
 
Oh, another great reply there, joe. You bring up my supposed dishonesty, but when I call you on it the best you can do is a one word reply.

What are you doing here? You're making yourself look worse with every post.
LOL,your dishonesty isn't supposed. It's real and self evident. If you cannot be honest, then there is no point going further. You have consistently misrepresented fact and engaged in ad hominem.

You should not worry about my appearances. You should be worried about yours. You are the guy who cannot make a reasoned logical honest argument.

When you dump a pile of dishonest turds as you have done, a one word reply is more than sufficient. If you want to wallo in your turds, go for it.
 
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Guys Gone Wild

Trippy said:
I find it hard to believe that we're in the 21st century and we still need to have this discussion.

Something about the fire burning brightest goes here.

Part of the reason we're seeing a massive resurgence of misogyny in public discourse is that we're also witnessing the end of an era. For many men, the issue of street harassment brings neurotic conflict in comparing their own conduct, even once upon a misty water memory, to what is being denounced. And nobody likes indicting themselves, especially if they feel they are indicting so much of their lifetime.

Even I have my own litany of shame; I'm just lucky I didn't actually hurt anyone. I was drunk enough a couple weeks ago that when a woman of general acquaintance (friend of a friend) showed drunken, even ranting surprise at the idea that I was gay, and said in a mournful tone, "But you're so cute!" (really? holy shit!) it seemed a reasonable idea to flirt with her in order to test my perceptions. True, I didn't grope her or anything, but no, me flirting with women is an activity only to be undertaken ... er ... um ... right. Probably best if it's never undertaken. I come from a generation of diversely problematic expectations in this context; the idea of charming your way into the sack in a night just to see how far a perceived game goes is hardly uncommon. Throughout much of my life, it has been considered meritorious in masculine behavior. It's also the sort of thing that, in middle age, really embarrasses the living fuck out of me when I remember it the next morning. Afternoon. Whenever the hell I got up.

Old habits die hard. This wasn't ugly, just stupid. The only good news is that I don't have a whole lot to apologize for, but it's more a tinfoil lining than silver. And, damn, that must have been an awkward spectacle for others to witness.

But one habit that died a long time ago is hitting on women randomly. Never could do that with any refinement.

The thing about the present discussion I find unsettling is the irrational vacuum in which the issue is held. The only way they can contact women, as one or another of the FOX News dudes put it? Well, what does that actually mean? Why does that man on the street need to "contact" a woman?

My point being, of course, that generally speaking we men have no idea what it's like to have that many people randomly try to start discussions intended to end with them sticking their penises into our body.

Yet this consideration does not seem present in the justifications and defenses of street harassment. As I suggested to the skeptics, pick an orifice. I'm hardly huge, as such, but I'm pretty sure most of these skeptics aren't turned on or even gratified by the idea of me inserting my penis into whatever orifice they pick.

Indeed, it's hard to find something that matches up. But I don't expect any one of them would tolerate a constant barrage of men hitting on them.

Another consideration generally missing from the justifications and defenses of street harassment is that chatting up is long-established as part of our casual romance rituals.

Furthermore, women are constantly cautioned to avoid such behavior. This is part of our societal Infinite Prevention Advice to stop rape by blaming women for their failures to actually prevent a man from trying to rape her. Where is this consideration in the justifications and defenses of street harassment?

The idea that a harassed woman should feel thankful or grateful or whatever necessarily ignores all of this.

As to the twenty-first century? Many men enjoy behaving this way, and don't particularly want to give it up. And we're in a transitional period right now, where a number of these traditional standards of inequality are breaking for various reasons. Who knows? Maybe if men raped and harassed just a little less, we'd still be a century or two out from this discussion. To the other, who cares about what might have happened according to what might have been? This is happening, and just like the homophobes, and the racists before them, the misogynists are lashing out because they're not accustomed to feeling the wall at their backs.
 
Whatever comes to pass, freedom


If Bells was my employer, she'd be looking for a new job now!
Wow, you're still talking about me? Even after I asked you to stop pages ago? Do you have nothing better to do with your time?

If I was your employer, well, I would not be. Because I doubt I would ever have hired you. You lack control and you appear to be an obsessive dolt who is a misogynist and homophobic. Where I come from, such behaviours are not desired in employees and some of it is even illegal. It is not that I would be looking for a new job, Motor Daddy. It is that you would never have been hired in the first place.
 

Bells said:
Wow, you're still talking about me?

Well, you know, it's part of the whole thing. The indefensible always want to be on offense.

And I do sometimes wonder if the whole thing about men trying to justify rape culture is a matter of jealousy. Remember, when they're imagining people hitting on them relentlessly, they're not imagining a bunch of dudes trying to penetrate them.

I actually had a conversation today in which I recalled an old Sciforums discussion, when one of our associates and I disputed something about how the world sees men and women, and he had some trouble comprehending how the difference between penetrating and being penetrated could possibly be relevant to anything.

And you know that role reversal video Trippy posted? Yeah, a friend sent me that link earlier today; that's what dredged up the memory. Because as I was watching it all I could think was, "Well, they'll miss the point, anyway." Because, you know, why would the difference between putting your dick into someone and having someone put their dick into you be relevant to anything having to do with men, women, and sexual exploitation?

And that is the comfort of bullying people who aren't like oneself. I think back to juvenile locker room talk, stuff about fucking a woman 'til she can't walk, and all that. Most of those guys will never experience someone trying to fuck them until they can't walk. And this sort of talk was generally considered inappropriate because it used profane language, and, you know, you're not supposed to kiss and tell, and all that. The idea, even into the 1990s, that it was inappropriate to want to fuck a woman to incapacity? That part was just fine, apparently.

And, you know, I can't speak specifically on Japanese psychoanthropology, but in the U.S., there is a clear consumption disparity between shōnen and shōjo. (The most prominent shōnen in the U.S., as far as I can tell, is Bleach in which some of the best fighters in the world just happen to be tall, blonde Japanese women with breasts larger than their heads.) The difference in terminology, generally speaking, is that shōnen is aimed at a young male audience, while shōjo targets young females.

The next step up seems to be ecchi, which is just weird to Western eyes. The basic pretense is to push as far as you can, and load up on juvenile sex jokes. It's kind of hard to understand, but perhaps it is best to simply offer the detail that a female character is often defined by her panties. I forget the exact code, but it has to do with plain white, dots or flowers, stripes, and solid colors. And ecchi also combines with an apparent subgenre designated harem ecchi, in which some hapless dude ends up with a number of powerful, sexy women clamoring for his affection. And it's hard to explain the scenes in which Minato's sekirei "wives" argue over primacy, especially when Kusano (#108, the child) demands to be the one allowed to sleep in his bed. (And, yes, #6 is male; that was unexpected, though it probably shouldn't be; his lack of an Ashikabi was literally killing him, and why would his heart not move in that circumstance for the one who wasn't going to exploit him?)

There does exist a female version of ecchi, creatively designated reverse ecchi. As with shōjo, it doesn't match the sales of its male-targeting primary genre.

I have no idea if there is a reverse hentai, or if the one genre is all-encompassing; I do not wish to find out. Hentai is only interesting insofar as we might wonder who would want to spend that much time depicting a giant monster raping women with its tentacles, and so on—I've never seen a guy buggered by a crossbreed of a Power Ranger, Transformer, and Cthulhu, or abandoned a scene in which he's about to take five dogs in the ass. My critical opinion is that hentai is best left to itself in hopes that it leaves everyone else alone. It is possible to do good ecchi, and I admit the scene in Mahoromatic when Mahoro gets inexplicably jealous and delivers a powerful, cybernetic uppercut to Saori's left exponentially outsized left breast caught me by surprise, and quite literally had me "rotfl". (Note: Ecchi is best consumed in concert with one's body weight in fine hashish.)

It is unclear how much we might read into the disparity by observing the suggestion that FLCL qualifies as reverse ecchi; Minamori has every appearance of rivalry, loathing Mamimi and standing off in one scene against Haruko, and emerging in the end as the last girl standing, the next in line to attempt to control Naota with her feminine wiles. (Although I just accidentally learned something about the plot structure by launching the third episode in the wrong player; the background interview subtitles came up, and yes, there is a harem ecchi aspect to the narrative insofar as the first three episodes deal with Haruko, Mamimi, and Minamori respectively. And episode three always stood out as unusual for its focus on Minamori, but is also possibly the best of the six.)

And all of this useless detail about the genres is only to eventually suggest there is a reason for the consumption disparity. To wit, the best line Stephen King ever wrote came in Pet Sematary, when he described an erect penis as looking like "Bozo the Clown on a pogo stick". That was one of his attempts to view things from a female perspective.

But it seems nearly undeniable that, generally speaking, men and women view sexual issues differently. Women are a statistical majority; if all about sex and sexuality were equal, shōjo and reverse ecchi should outsell their masculine-oriented counterparts. And while it's true that there are a small handful of shōjo studios in Japan, their market presence in the U.S. is next to nothing.

In life, I admit, even the most frequently aroused women I knew were ... um ... well, I have yet to meet a woman who isn't a porn star with so voracious a sexual appetite.

And it seems that this difference in how men and women view sexual issues is lacking from the justifications and defenses of street harassment. And by lacking, I don't mean the guys just don't seem to comprehend it; rather, they seem unable to acknowledge that it exists.

And it often seems consistent. No male IPA, for instance, is ever going to have to fend off that many rape attempts in his life. Nor will he have to face so much harassment everywhere he goes. So while we run around clueless about the magnitude and frequency of sexual harassment, it seems many are unable to acknowledge even the mere possibility that women just don't see these things the same way.

Then again, it's not clear that they would care even if they were capable of recognizing the differences.

 
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I would be interested in the exit of silent walk alongside and mr friendly (am I too ugly guy) exit.

Why him?

And here is where we diverge. I dont think hey babe, hey beautiful are over the top. And honestly I have no idea how often these situations result in a connection being made.

Without it being illegal, that's a lot of "hey baby"-ing. If these numbers are correct, then women are potentially running a gauntlet of mostly unwanted attention every day, in NYC at least. The individual act is motivated by that desire for a hookup so it's not a uniform thing, it's a pressure directed at women. Again, not illegal - unless it's egregious like those two specific assholes - and, yes, the desire to be left alone needs to be stated before it enters into the area of illegality. But consider if the numbers are correct: constant, regular oblique and casual interrogations for sex, or else just comments on appearance. Do men undergo such pressures? No. Women appear to be running a gauntlet of this. This society needs to change its outlook on this behaviour. Or at the least in the trouble spots.

I am ok with everything you say above except "its harassment". She didnt tell him she was uncomfortable. And I will guarantee you that non-predators do not imagine themselves in other peoples eyes as a potential threat. Clueless, yes. Criminal? no.

I'd go as far as 'unethical' and 'patriarchal'. Sure, everyone wants to meet girls. But over the long distance and the 10-hour term, this is incredibly oppressive. Imagine yourself running through that every day. We need to change our outlook and this is one of the ways in which it needs to change.

And you have to ask yourself why the producers of this video instructed the actress not to say anything. Is it because if she had told him she was uncomfortable he would have said sorry and moved away deflating their goal/purpose?

It's possible that this weirdly encouraged some of the men - but if the girl says nothing, isn't that reason enough to move on? There I think it approaches the legal issue regarding consent I think. And our societal tolerances - or again, at least in NYC - are screwy.
 
Wow, you're still talking about me?

Yes! Because you seem to want to show favoritism towards gays, transvestites, and cross dressers in the work place, which prevents them from being charged with harassment when they give you a shoe compliment.

See??

Even after I asked you to stop pages ago?

Sure!! When I see an act of discrimination ( a crime) in the workplace, the person can't say shut up to me and expect me to. I have a duty to report the crime, so I can't shut up. I have to speak louder!!

Do you have nothing better to do with your time?

Now there's a "my time" and "your time"? I blame Einstein!

If I was your employer, well, I would not be. Because I doubt I would ever have hired you. You lack control and you appear to be an obsessive dolt who is a misogynist and homophobic. Where I come from, such behaviours are not desired in employees and some of it is even illegal. It is not that I would be looking for a new job, Motor Daddy. It is that you would never have been hired in the first place.

That's not how some VERY important people described my duty performance for 20 years. And guess what? I have every single piece of paper documenting said performance. There is not 1 flaw, and I was evaluated by the best! How about you?? Do you have documentation of 20 years of leading people, and how that went for you?
 
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tali89:

No, I think it merits a very simple action. The man doing it should stop his harassment of women. Simple. Requires no additional effort on his part.

So now you consider the simple act of saying 'Hello there' to be harassment? Or is it only harassment when someone with a penis does it to someone without a penis?
 
So now you consider the simple act of saying 'Hello there' to be harassment? Or is it only harassment when someone with a penis does it to someone without a penis?

The thing about sexual harassment is that the intent of the perpetrator isn't that important. What matters is the perception of the target. A so-called simple act of saying "Hello there" may, in certain circumstances, be perceived as threatening, sleazy or just unwelcome. Or it could be perceived as harmless friendliness. Maybe if you were a woman and random guys said "Hello there" to you once a day on average it wouldn't be that bad, though even then you might find it presumptuous. But if happened every 6 minutes every time you walked down the street, it could get old pretty quickly, don't you think?

Tell me, tali89. Why do the guys that shout out the Hello Theres only shout them at women? Why aren't they equal-opportunity friendly people, friendly and welcoming to all? Why is that?

On the subject of penises, it's a simple fact that about 99% of the Hello Theres on the street come from people with penises, directed at people without. It could conceivably be harassment if it went the other way, but that happens so rarely as to be negligible for the purposes of the current discussion.
 
joepistole,

LOL,your dishonesty isn't supposed. It's real and self evident. If you cannot be honest, then there is no point going further. You have consistently misrepresented fact and engaged in ad hominem.

This is the second (or is it the third?) time you've made that claim, and the second time you've utterly failed to back it up with anything at all.

Want to try for the home run?

You should not worry about my appearances. You should be worried about yours. You are the guy who cannot make a reasoned logical honest argument.

You're the guy with the avoidance problem. I ask you uncomfortable questions; you avoid. That's how it has gone. I mean, I understand why you're defensive, but you can't bluff through this. You need to either call it quits or pony up.
 
Yes! Because you seem to want to show favoritism towards gays, transvestites, and cross dressers in the work place, which prevents them from being charged with harassment when they give you a shoe compliment.

See??
Still making things up?

I said that if a transvestite comments on my shoes I'd have no issues with it. Why do you think that is? Is it because she isn't commenting about it in a way that is hitting on me perhaps? And it is that giant smack you in the forehead context that you can't seem to grasp.

Sure!! When I see an act of discrimination ( a crime) in the workplace, the person can't say shut up to me and expect me to. I have a duty to report the crime, so I can't shut up. I have to speak louder!!
I told you to leave me alone. You still kept mentioning me.. And I asked you this pages ago.

Do you crave attention that much?

Or are you going to come out with some fantastic claim that I am discriminating against you because I'd think you were a sleaze if you harassed women on the street?

Now there's a "my time" and "your time"? I blame Einstein!
I blame your desire to act like a jackass.

But that's just me.

That's not how some VERY important people described my duty performance for 20 years. And guess what? I have every single piece of paper documenting said performance. There is not 1 flaw, and I was evaluated by the best! How about you?? Do you have documentation of 20 years of leading people, and how that went for you?
Very well actually. I was headhunted by a major Government department to lead a legal department for said Government department in my State. You?


tali89 said:
So now you consider the simple act of saying 'Hello there' to be harassment? Or is it only harassment when someone with a penis does it to someone without a penis?
Welcome back Tali89.

You made this comment earlier about the woman in the video:

tali89 said:
A woman who designed an experiment aimed at attracting the attention of others supposedly received said attention?

And I asked you how she drew or attracted attention to herself and you must have missed the question, because you failed to answer it.. I mean you did miss it, didn't you? You wouldn't be avoiding it, surely.... Can you please explain and point out where in the video what she was doing to attract the attention to yourself that led to her harassment?
 
Still making things up?

Nope, it's all here in this thread, set in stone.

I said that if a transvestite comments on my shoes I'd have no issues with it. Why do you think that is? Is it because she isn't commenting about it in a way that is hitting on me perhaps? And it is that giant smack you in the forehead context that you can't seem to grasp.

You called me a weirdo, and for it to be harassment at the bus stop for giving you a compliment on your shoes. But when a gay, transvestite, or cross dresser employee does it to you, you smile and say have a nice day. But when Fred does it, he gets demoted, no? So you're saying that if you're not gay, transvestite, or a cross dresser, that it's harassment to you when someone compliments you on your shoes, but not for them. Not even in the workplace!!


I told you to leave me alone. You still kept mentioning me.. And I asked you this pages ago.

This is an internet website. If I stop talking there is no conversation. Duh? If you force me to stop talking, that doesn't make what you did in the workplace any less punishable!

Do you crave attention that much?

No. Do you?

Or are you going to come out with some fantastic claim that I am discriminating against you because I'd think you were a sleaze if you harassed women on the street?

If you were my boss, and you let gay, transvestite, and cross dressing employees give you shoe compliments while smiling, and then when I do it you claim harassment and me a weirdo, you'd be in the soup line. Guaranteed.


I blame your desire to act like a jackass.

For giving you a shoe compliment?

But that's just me.

Yup.


Very well actually. I was headhunted by a major Government department to lead a legal department for said Government department in my State. You?

Which State? So I take it you act differently at work than you do on this board?

So that's a no on the documentation? We could always look to your Mod documentation on this site to see how you perform as a leader??
 
Nope, it's all here in this thread, set in stone.
And yet you still can't read and comprehend it.

You called me a weirdo, and for it to be harassment at the bus stop for giving you a compliment on your shoes. But when a gay, transvestite, or cross dresser employee does it to you, you smile and say have a nice day. But when Fred does it, he gets demoted, no? So you're saying that if you're not gay, transvestite, or a cross dresser, that it's harassment to you when someone compliments you on your shoes, but not for them. Not even in the workplace!!
Reading .. Comprehension.. Still that hard for you?

You are also making things up to such an extent, that it is not even worthy of my time to address them. Why are you lying to such an extent that you are now putting words in my mouth?

This is an internet website. If I stop talking there is no conversation. Duh? If you force me to stop talking, that doesn't make what you did in the workplace any less punishable!
What do I do in the workplace?

If you stopped acting like a troll, it would be more fun. More interesting.

Have you failed to notice that you are spending half your time talking to yourself because people just cannot be bothered with your level of dishonest trolling?

No. Do you?
It is why I asked you to leave me alone and you just won't stop. It is part of why I call you a weirdo.

If you were my boss, and you let gay, transvestite, and cross dressing employees give you shoe compliments while smiling, and then when I do it you claim harassment and me a weirdo, you'd be in the soup line. Guaranteed.
Where did I say that?

Why would my employees compliment me on my shoes in the first place?

Are you mixing up complete strangers in the street with people you know and possibly work with?

Can you tell the difference between the two? Street harassment is about complete strangers, such as yourself, harassing women because you have a pathological need to creep people out. Can you tell the difference between complete strangers and people you work with?

It would help if you did not pull stuff out of your anus in your zeal to make things up about what I actually said.

For giving you a shoe compliment?
No, you are a jackass in general.

Which State? So I take it you act differently at work than you do on this board?

So that's a no on the documentation? We could always look to your Mod documentation on this site to see how you perform as a leader??
Do you actually think I would tell you who or where I work?

That's the most idiotic thing you have said so far.

What are you? Like some creepy stalker now? I've asked you to leave me alone multiple times, but you won't. You appear to follow me around this forum posting about me or at me all the time. And you actually think and believe I am going to tell you which State I work in?

So here's the deal. I am going to tell you, one last time, to leave me alone. And you are going to respect that request and leave me alone. Stop stalking me. Stop posting about me. Stop bringing up my name in your posts. Stop posting things at me in the hope that I respond. Stop bringing up comments from your favourite celebrities and commenting on what you believe I might say about it. Stop it all.

Do you understand now? I am going to assume yes, because you are going to respect my request and stop.

Huzzah..
 
And yet you still can't read and comprehend it.


Reading .. Comprehension.. Still that hard for you?

You are also making things up to such an extent, that it is not even worthy of my time to address them. Why are you lying to such an extent that you are now putting words in my mouth?


What do I do in the workplace?

If you stopped acting like a troll, it would be more fun. More interesting.

Have you failed to notice that you are spending half your time talking to yourself because people just cannot be bothered with your level of dishonest trolling?


It is why I asked you to leave me alone and you just won't stop. It is part of why I call you a weirdo.


Where did I say that?

Why would my employees compliment me on my shoes in the first place?

Are you mixing up complete strangers in the street with people you know and possibly work with?

Can you tell the difference between the two? Street harassment is about complete strangers, such as yourself, harassing women because you have a pathological need to creep people out. Can you tell the difference between complete strangers and people you work with?

It would help if you did not pull stuff out of your anus in your zeal to make things up about what I actually said.


No, you are a jackass in general.


Do you actually think I would tell you who or where I work?

That's the most idiotic thing you have said so far.

What are you? Like some creepy stalker now? I've asked you to leave me alone multiple times, but you won't. You appear to follow me around this forum posting about me or at me all the time. And you actually think and believe I am going to tell you which State I work in?

So here's the deal. I am going to tell you, one last time, to leave me alone. And you are going to respect that request and leave me alone. Stop stalking me. Stop posting about me. Stop bringing up my name in your posts. Stop posting things at me in the hope that I respond. Stop bringing up comments from your favourite celebrities and commenting on what you believe I might say about it. Stop it all.

Do you understand now? I am going to assume yes, because you are going to respect my request and stop.

Huzzah..

Yes. Completely.
 
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