Statistical Miracles of the Noble Quran

Have you read the Noble Quran ?

  • Yes, I did

    Votes: 3 27.3%
  • No, I did not

    Votes: 7 63.6%
  • I would like to read it

    Votes: 1 9.1%

  • Total voters
    11
  • Poll closed .
Re: Re: A question

Originally posted by Flores
My friend, Tolstoy would have never claimed to be prophet, because . . . .
My friend, I’m not sure how, but you seemed to have missed my point in its entirely. This simply was - that using equidistant letter sequences (ELS) (or other mathematical “prediction” models) any book can appear to make ad hoc future predictions mathematically. When the same methods are employed with books such as Moby Dick and War and Piece, those books also predict many future events (Ad Hoc). In some cases these books do a better job of "predicting future events" than their religious “inspired” counterparts – one such book is War and Piece. As such, and in accordance with your theory (that books that can make such predictions must therefore somehow be special and thus more evidence of godly inspiration) then Tolstoy (as the author of W&P) must have been inspired by god. I hope that was more clear this time – by the way didn’t you see the “on a sarcastic note”?

You seemed to have over looked the three questions I posted? I’ll post them again if you care to answer them for me, these are not sarcastic - I just curious about these questions and I think they are relevant to the topic. If you have no idea that’s fine – if anyone else would like to give them a go I’d appreciate the answers.
Question:
1) Is it true or false that the Qur’an gives specific "mathematical" rules in regards to dividing inheritance?
2) Do ALL Muslims follow the identical "mathematical" rules of inheritance (even in obscure circumstances) WITHOUT exception?
3) If certain sects DO follow different mathematical formulas (based on the Nobel Qur’an) and arrive at different outcomes – what does that then imply about mathematics and the Nobel Qur’an?
 
Re: Re: A question

Originally posted by Flores
Prophet Muhammed could have done the same as Tolstoy and claimed himself founder of Quran, god, king, ect....but he chose to tell the simple truth that he was inspired by some angel through god. DO YOU KNOW HOW CRAZY THAT SOUNDS? Would you claim such a thing if you had a grand agenda of becoming the most powerful man in history? His claim would have gotten him killed instantly if it wasn't for god support.
His claim would have gotten him killed instantly eh? Well lets see, it seems to have worked for Oh I don’t know maybe Egyptian Pharos, Alexander the Great (who may also make an appearance in the Qur'an) Julius Caesar, the Kings of England, France, Ottoman Rulers, Emperors of Japan, David Koresh, bla bla bla bla bla bla Actually as you can see it’s really quite common and certainly works on the sheep/pack like mentality of most people – so I think we can agree that 1) Mohammed’s claims certainly aren’t original and 2) he may well find himself in quite a bit of historic company.
 
Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
Originally posted by Randolfo
===========================

THE BIBLE AND PEACE:

20:29-30 The Israelites smite 100,000 Syrian soldiers in one day. A wall falls on 27,000 remaining Syrians.

2KI NGS2:23-24 Forty-two children are mauled and killed, presumably according to the will of God, for having jeered at a man of God.
"
Originally posted by Randolfo "
Hey, stop putting words in my mouth, learn to paste better.
Oh, & read the Bible more, even the rest of the quoted verses you posted, you may learn something & become a christian
 

Originally posted by Randolfo

if this allah can abrogate rules & change his mind, he displays the mind of a man, by the name of Mohammad, why would the qibla be changed after Jews refuse to convert? can mohammad marry whom he wishes, why just ask allah, he'll approve. allah as joker, changer of mind like the wind blows, to & fro, is the mind of allah. Can the quran hold up against criticism? I think not, can you use the quran to self-analyze itself, only if you are already brainwashed, it does not read like a holy book, it let's people rape, kill, enslave, plunder, it's so-called prophet, messenger, apostle used it to start an arab empire, for arabs, by arabs, using an arabic moon god, with daughters that were so ruthlessly abandoned, with verses that had to be taken out, because they were satanic, why couldn't Mohammad tell they were satanic in the first place? because he was not a prophet, a messenger, or an apostle.
Originally posted by Flores
Typical Jewish futile arguments.
Jewish, futile? in what way? Why, because they are true?

No wonder how many miracles Moses brought forward,
Why do you bring up a good Hebrew, like Moshe for? How do you know about Moshe’s miracles? Read about them in the Bible? Because the Moses in the Quran, is a fictional character.
About as fictional as if you let Hindu’s write about the life of Mohammad would be.


they asked the same dumb questions
are you saying I’m dumb? you're mean

:(

and placed a mute golden calf in his place.
those freed Hebrew slaves, did not give up their past so easily, read about what they said about the fleshpots in Egypt. Go ahead & read the Bible, your eyes won’t pop out & burn as they melt like wax
:D

So, let answer the following questions again

if this allah can abrogate rules & change his mind, he displays the mind of a man
Why does this so-called perfect, golden book, need revisions so soon while Mohammad was still alive?


why would the qibla be changed after Jews refuse to convert?
so why didn’t allah leave the quibla in Jerusalem like he started? Why did he place it on a pagan site, which was what the Kaba’a is?


I think not, can you use the quran to self-analyze itself, only if you are already brainwashed, it does not read like a holy book
to let a book self-analyze itself, I think that this is what paranoid delusional people do; to verify their schemes, plots, shadowy-worlds & conspiracies?

using an arabic moon god, with daughters that were so ruthlessly abandoned
so, what happened to the orphaned daughters?


because they were satanic, why couldn't Mohammad tell they were satanic in the first place?
this is in reference to the “cranes” prayer that Mohammad used when the pagan Meccans were to strong, that no longer appears in the quran in surah 53.19-20 ;)
see:

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Verses
 
Originally posted by Markx
It is so funny. We got a Soloman Rushdie file opened again. Book never needed a revision. Can you please provide all the versions of Quran, Revised and non revised. :D I mean like, KJV, RSV, Mormons etc etc. I am desprate to see them. Thank you.
You got a browser, if you were really interested &/or really desperate, you would look it up for yourself.
 
Originally posted by Randolfo
"
Originally posted by Randolfo "
Hey, stop putting words in my mouth, learn to paste better.
Oh, & read the Bible more, even the rest of the quoted verses you posted, you may learn something & become a christian

Ohhhh, I read your wonderful bible and it made me throw up, i felt so sick.....

HTTP://WWW.EVILBIBLE.COM ( THE MOTHER OF ALL SITES )

THE BIBLE AND SLAVERY

"Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God."
- Colossians 3:22
.
"Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the foward.
- 1 Peter 2:18
.
"Let as many servants as are under your yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed."
- 1 Timothy 6:1
.
"Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ."
- Ephesians 6:5
.
"Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again; not purloining, but showing good
fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things."
- Titus 2:9-10
.
"And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a
day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money."
- Exodus 21:20-21
 
inifidel! you dare spread your lies in this holiest of forums?
i cast you out serpent! begone or let the holy spirit enter thee!

*douche first
thanks
sincerely
spook
 
Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
How do I know the Noble Quran is the true word of God ? show me ONE contradiction in the Quran !! no one through history was able to find a single contradiction or scientific errors in the Quran.

Hi,

One of the things that has always puzzled me in the quran.

Then We made the Nutfah into a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood), then We made the clot into a little lump of flesh, then We made out of that little lump of flesh bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh, and then We brought it forth as another creation. So blessed be Allâh, the Best of creators. (Al-Mu'minun 23:14)

Would you please explain this Proud Syrian since you have put forth the claim that there are no contradictions or science errors in the quran? I have other questions too, but I thought I'd go slowly since I am new to this board.
 
Originally posted by chalcedony
Hi,

One of the things that has always puzzled me in the quran.

Then We made the Nutfah into a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood), then We made the clot into a little lump of flesh, then We made out of that little lump of flesh bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh, and then We brought it forth as another creation. So blessed be Allâh, the Best of creators. (Al-Mu'minun 23:14)

Would you please explain this Proud Syrian since you have put forth the claim that there are no contradictions or science errors in the quran? I have other questions too, but I thought I'd go slowly since I am new to this board.
Incidentally - flesh is obviously present well before bones in the developing fetus. But you have to take this stuff for what it is - I mean talking to ants? With what? Chemicals (considering ants don't use sound to communicate). I’d say much of it is made up :)
 
Hi again,

Are these contradictions in the quran?

1. How many angels? One or many?


She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent to her Our Ruh [angel Jibrael (Gabriel)], and he appeared before her in the form of a man in all respects. She said: "Verily! I seek refuge with the Most Beneficent (Allâh) from you, if you do fear Allâh. (The angel) said: "I am only a Messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a righteous son. She said: "How can I have a son, when no man has touched me, nor am I unchaste?" He said: "So (it will be), your Lord said: 'That is easy for Me (Allâh): And (We wish) to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us (Allâh), and it is a matter (already) decreed, (by Allâh).' (Maryam 19:17-21)


And (remember) when the angels said: "O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allâh has chosen you, purified you (from polytheism and disbelief), and chosen you above the women of the 'Alamîn (mankind and jinns) (of her lifetime)." (Aali Imran 3:42)

(Remember) when the angels said: "O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allâh gives you the glad tidings of a Word ["Be!" - and he was! i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus) the son of Maryam (Mary)] from Him, his name will be the Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), held in honour in this world and in the Hereafter, and will be one of those who are near to Allâh." (Aali Imran 3:45)

2. How long is a day to Allah? 1000 years or 50,000 years?

And they ask you to hasten on the torment! And Allâh fails not His Promise. And verily, a day with your Lord is as a thousand years of what you reckon. (Al-Hajj 22:47)


The angels and the Rûh [Jibrael (Gabriel)] ascend to Him in a Day the measure whereof is fifty thousand years, (Al-Ma'arij 70:4)

3. Who reaps souls? Allah, Angel of Death or generic angels?

Say: "The angel of death, who is set over you, will take your souls, then you shall be brought to your Lord." (As-Sajdah 32:11)

Then how (will it be) when the angels will take their souls at death, smiting their faces and their backs? (Muhammad 47:27)

It is Allâh Who takes away the souls at the time of their death, and those that die not during their sleep. He keeps those (souls) for which He has ordained death and sends the rest for a term appointed. Verily, in this are signs for a people who think deeply. (Az-Zumar 39:42)

4. Which is older: heaven or earth?

He it is Who created for you all that is on earth. Then He Istawâ (rose over) towards the heaven and made them seven heavens and He is the All-Knower of everything. (Al-Baqarah 2:29)

Are you more difficult to create, or is the heaven that He constructed? He raised its height, and He has equally ordered it, Its night He covers with darkness, and its forenoon He brings out (with light). And after that He spread the earth; (An-Nazi'at 79:27-30)

5. Is shirk an unforgivable sin? If so, how does this square with the Islamic concept of the sinlessness of prophets since Abraham worshipped other gods?

Verily, Allâh forgives not that partners should be set up with him in worship, but He forgives except that (anything else) to whom He pleases, and whoever sets up partners with Allâh in worship, he has indeed invented a tremendous sin. (An-Nisa 4:48)

Verily! Allâh forgives not (the sin of) setting up partners in worship with Him, but He forgives whom he pleases sins other than that, and whoever sets up partners in worship with Allâh, has indeed strayed far away. (An-Nisa 4:116)

The people of the Scripture (Jews) ask you to cause a book to descend upon them from heaven. Indeed they asked Mûsa (Moses) for even greater than that, when they said: "Show us Allâh in public," but they were struck with thunder clap and lightning for their wickedness. Then they worshipped the calf even after clear proofs, evidences, and signs had come to them. (Even) so We forgave them. And We gave Mûsa (Moses) a clear proof of authority. (An-Nisa 4:153)

And those who invoke not any other ilâh (god) along with Allâh, nor kill such life as Allâh has forbidden, except for just cause, nor commit illegal sexual intercourse and whoever does this shall receive the punishment. The torment will be doubled to him on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein in disgrace; Except those who repent and believe (in Islâmic Monotheism), and do righteous deeds, for those, Allâh will change their sins into good deeds, and Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And whosoever repents and does righteous good deeds, then verily, he repents towards Allâh with true repentance. (Al-Furqan 25:68-71)

When the night covered him over with darkness he saw a star. He said: "This is my lord." But when it set, he said: "I like not those that set." When he saw the moon rising up, he said: "This is my lord." But when it set, he said: "Unless my Lord guides me, I shall surely be among the erring people.” When he saw the sun rising up, he said: "This is my lord. This is greater." But when it set, he said: "O my people! I am indeed free from all that you join as partners in worship with Allâh. (Al-An'am 6:76-78)

6. Did all of Noah’s family survive, or did one drown?

And (remember) Nûh (Noah), when he cried (to Us) aforetime. We listened to his invocation and saved him and his family from great distress. (Al-Anbiya 21:76)

So it (the ship) sailed with them amidst the waves like mountains, and Nûh (Noah) called out to his son, who had separated himself (apart), "O my son! Embark with us and be not with the disbelievers." The son replied: "I will betake myself to a mountain, it will save me from the water." Nûh (Noah) said: "This day there is no saviour[] from the Decree of Allâh except him on whom He has mercy." And a wave came in between them, so he (the son) was among the drowned. (Hud 11:42-43)

7. What exactly is the punishment for adultery?

The woman and the man guilty of illegal sexual intercourse, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not pity withhold you in their case, in a punishment prescribed by Allâh, if you believe in Allâh and the Last Day. And let a party of the believers witness their punishment. (This punishment is for unmarried persons guilty of the above crime but if married persons commit it, the punishment is to stone them to death, according to Allâh's Law). (An-Nur 24:2)

And those of your women who commit illegal sexual intercourse, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them (i.e. women) to houses until death comes to them or Allâh ordains for them some (other) way. (An-Nisa 4:15)

8. According to the quran, do Christians go to paradise or hell?

Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allâh and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve . (Al-Baqarah 2:62)

Surely, those who believe (in the Oneness of Allâh, in His Messenger Muhammad SAW and all that was revealed to him from Allâh), those who are the Jews and the Sabians and the Christians, - whosoever believed in Allâh and the Last Day, and worked righteousness, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. (Al-Ma'idah 5:69)

Surely, they have disbelieved who say: "Allâh is the Messiah ['Iesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary)." But the Messiah ['Iesa (Jesus)] said: "O Children of Israel! Worship Allâh, my Lord and your Lord." Verily, whosoever sets up partners in worship with Allâh, then Allâh has forbidden Paradise for him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrongdoers) there are no helpers. (Al-Ma'idah 5:72)

And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers. (Aali Imran 3:85)

9. Did Jesus die?

Muhammad (SAW) is no more than a Messenger, and indeed (many) Messengers have passed away before him. If he dies or is killed, will you then turn back on your heels (as disbelievers)? And he who turns back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allâh, and Allâh will give reward to those who are grateful. (Aali Imran 3:144)

But Allâh raised him ['Iesa (Jesus)] up (with his body and soul) unto Himself (and he is in the heavens). And Allâh is Ever AllPowerful, AllWise. (An-Nisa 4:158)
 
Originally posted by chalcedony
Hi,

One of the things that has always puzzled me in the quran.

Then We made the Nutfah into a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood), then We made the clot into a little lump of flesh, then We made out of that little lump of flesh bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh, and then We brought it forth as another creation. So blessed be Allâh, the Best of creators. (Al-Mu'minun 23:14)

Would you please explain this Proud Syrian since you have put forth the claim that there are no contradictions or science errors in the quran? I have other questions too, but I thought I'd go slowly since I am new to this board.

Sure, here is my answer:

Allah said in the Qur'aan:

'' What thing is most weighty in evidence? Say: Allah is witness between me and you; this Qur'aan has been revealed to me by inspiration that I may warn you and all whom it reaches. (Qur'aan 6:19).

The miraculous nature of the Qur'aan lies in the knowledge which it contains. Allah, the Exalted, said: But Allah bears witness to that which He has sent down (the Qur'aan) you (O Muhammad); He has sent it down with His Knowledge… (Qur'aan 4:166).

Hence, our contemporary scientists and scholars, the professors in various universities who are leaders of human thought, have the opportunity to examine the knowledge which is found in the book of Allah. In this age, scientists have excelled in discovering the universe, though the Qur'aan has already discussed the universe and human nature even long before. So, what was the result?

let us see what Professor Emeritus Keith Moore, one of the world’s prominent scientists of anatomy and embryology has to say, Professor Moore was asked to give his scientific analysis of some specific Qur'anic verses and prophetic traditions [Ahadeeth] pertaining to his field of specialization.

Professor Moore is the author of the book entitled “The developing Human”. He is Professor Emeritus of Anatomy and Cell Biology at the University of Toronto, Canada, where he was Associate Dean of Basic Sciences at the Faculty of Medicine and for 8 years was the Chairman of the Department of Anatomy. Dr. Moore had also previously served at the University of Winnipeg, Canada for eleven years. He has headed many international associations of anatomists and the Council of the Union of Biological Sciences. Professor Moore was also elected to the membership of the Royal Medical Association of Canada, the International Academy of Cytology, the Union of American Anatomists and the Union of North and South American Anatomists. and in 1984 he received the most distinguished award presented in the field of anatomy in Canada, the J.C.B. Grant Award from the Canadian Association of Anatomists.

He has published many books on clinical anatomy and embryology, eight of them are used as reference works in medical schools and have been translated into six languages.

When he was asked to give his analysis of the Qur'aanic verses and prophetic statements, he was amazed. He wondered how the Prophet Muhammad , fourteen centuries ago, could describe the embryo and its development phase in such detail and accuracy, which scientists have come to know only in the last thirty years. Very quickly, however, Professor Moore’s amazement grew into admiration for this revelation and guidance. He introduced these views to intellectual and scientific circles. He even gave a lecture on the compatibility of modern embryology with the Qur'aan and Sunnah where he stated:

It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Qur'aan about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from Allah, or God, because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a Messenger of Allah."

Consider what this well-known and respected scientist of embryology declared upon studying the Qur'aanic verse related to his discipline, and his conclusion that Prophet Muhammad must have been a Messenger from Allah.

Allah says in the Qur'aan about the stages of the creation of man: Man we did create from a quintessence (of clay); Then we placed as (a drop of) sperm (nutfah) in a place firmly fixed; Then we made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood (‘alaqah); Then of that clot we made a (fetus) lump (mudghah); then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. (Qur'aan 23:12-14).

The Arabic word ‘alaqah has three meanings. The first meaning is “leech”. The second is “a suspended thing”. The third meaning is “a blood clot”.

In comparing the fresh-water leech to the embryo at the ‘alaqah stage, Professor Moore found a great similarity between the two. He concluded that the embryo during the ‘alaqah stage acquires an appearance very similar to that of leech. Professor Moore placed a picture of the embryo side by side with the picture of a leech (See Fig. 3.1). He presented these pictures to scientists at several conferences.

CreationOfMan_03.gif

Fig. 3.1

The second meaning of the word ‘alaqah is “a suspended thing”, and this is what we can see in the attachment of the embryo during the ‘alaqah stage to the uterus (womb) of the mother. The third meaning of the word ‘alaqah is “a blood clot”. It is significant to note, as Professor Moore stated, that the embryo during the ‘alaqah stage goes through well known internal events, such as the formation of blood in closed vessels, until the metabolic cycle is completed through placenta. During the ‘alaqah stage, the blood is caught within closed vessels and that is why the embryo acquires the appearance of a blood clot, in addition to the leech-like appearance. Both descriptions are miraculously given by a single Qur'aanic word ‘alaqah.

How could Prophet Muhammad have possibly known that by himself? Professor Moore also studied the embryo at the mudghah (chewed-like substance) stage. He took a piece of raw clay and chewed it in his mouth, then compared it with a picture of the embryo at the mudghah stage. Professor Moore concluded that the embryo at the mudghah stage acquires the exact appearance of a chewed-like substance (Fig. 3.2) . Several Canadian periodicals published many of Professor Moore’s statements. In addition, he presented three television programs in which he highlighted the compatibility of modern science with what has been contained in the Qur'aan for one thousand and four hundred years. Consequently, Professor Moore was asked the following question: ‘Does this mean that you believe that the Qur'aan is the Word of Allah?’ to which he replied: “I find no difficulty in accepting this.” Professor Moore was also asked: ‘How can you believe in Muhammad while you believe in Jesus Christ?’ His reply was: "I believe they both come from the same school."

CreationOfMan_05.jpg

Fig. 3.2

Thus modern scientists all over the world today can come to know that the Qur'an has been revealed from Allah’s knowledge. As Allah the Almighty has told us: Allah bears witness that what He has sent unto thee He has sent with His (own) knowledge. (Qur'aan 4:166).

It also follows that modern-day scientists should have no difficulty in acknowledging that the Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him), is a Messenger of Allah.
 
Originally posted by chalcedony
Hi again,

Are these contradictions in the quran?

1. How many angels? One or many?


She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent to her Our Ruh [angel Jibrael (Gabriel)], and he appeared before her in the form of a man in all respects. She said: "Verily! I seek refuge with the Most Beneficent (Allâh) from you, if you do fear Allâh. (The angel) said: "I am only a Messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a righteous son. She said: "How can I have a son, when no man has touched me, nor am I unchaste?" He said: "So (it will be), your Lord said: 'That is easy for Me (Allâh): And (We wish) to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us (Allâh), and it is a matter (already) decreed, (by Allâh).' (Maryam 19:17-21)


And (remember) when the angels said: "O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allâh has chosen you, purified you (from polytheism and disbelief), and chosen you above the women of the 'Alamîn (mankind and jinns) (of her lifetime)." (Aali Imran 3:42)

(Remember) when the angels said: "O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allâh gives you the glad tidings of a Word ["Be!" - and he was! i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus) the son of Maryam (Mary)] from Him, his name will be the Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), held in honour in this world and in the Hereafter, and will be one of those who are near to Allâh." (Aali Imran 3:45)
=====================================
P S:

Actually, the author's unfamiliarity with the Arabic language, its grammar and usage, is one of the main reasons for his objection. Indeed, one of the major problems with the Bible as it stands today as so graciously demonstrated by him for us in this example, is that our current Bibles force us to study ancient Hebrew and Aramaic scriptures through Greek and Latin glasses as seen by people who are neither Jews, Greeks, nor Romans. Such practices (as demonstrated in the book "What Did Jesus Really Say?"), have seriously handicapped any attempts to faithfully translate the original author's intended meanings. This problem, all thanks be to the Almighty, has been completely avoided in the Qur'an, since it has remained from the time of its inspiration to the present day in the same language it was originally revealed in, the language has remained a living language from that day to this, and the book itself has always been in the hands of the people and not "the elite."

The foremost miracle of the Qur'an is in its text. The text of the Arabic language. You can not translate a miracle no matter how you may try. The Arabic language can not be compared to any other language in its intricate complexity, diversity of form, richness of meaning, brevity of parlance, beauty of construct and power of delivery. To give an example of this let us look at the most basic of measures, that of dictionaries:

A fairly comprehensive and authoritative reference on the English language would be the "Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary" tenth edition, in 1500 pages. On the other hand, a common Arabic dictionary is "Lisan Al-Arab" in 18 volumes, each averaging about 650 pages, or about 11700 pages in all. In other words, even if we were to disregard all of the other aspects of the Arabic language, such as its grammar, we would still be faced with a language which is about eight times as complex as the English language. It is not at all uncommon in the Arabic language to find over one hundred words that refer to the same entity, each one of them giving a slightly different detailed description than all of the others. This has resulted in a language which can translate complete English sentences into only one Arabic word.

But the Arabic language is not simply a list of words. Far from it, it is a very complex collection of literary sciences which have been developed, refined, and fine-tuned for generations and millennia beyond counting. The end result of this is a group of literary sciences which literally have no parallel whatsoever in the English language, such as the science of "Sarf" or the multifarious sciences of "Balaghah," among others. Even when the English language can lay claim to a parallel science to that of the Arabic language, such as for example the science of "grammar," even in this case anyone who has the slightest understanding of the Arabic language finds that even these equivalent sciences fade nearly into oblivion when faced with the tremendous complexities and inestimable attention to the minutest detail in Arabic grammar which can literally reverse the meanings of a sentence simply by changing a single squiggle (diacritic) above the last letter of only one word in that sentence (Imagine being able to reverse the meaning of an English sentence by removing the dot over one "i" in that sentence).

William Shakespeare was considered to be one of the leading masters of English literature known to date. However, he never had to deal with the Arabic language. Now, taking into consideration that the Arab nation was one obsessed with literary perfection and refinement of prose, it becomes apparent that what we had here was a nation of literally hundreds of "William Shakespeares." Indeed an individual's mastery of the Arabic language was considered one of the primary distinguishing criteria in selecting tribal leaders. Just as in the wild west people used to have public shoot-outs at high noon, so too did the ancient Arabs have public face-downs in literary composition. These public confrontations could at times be so scathing and destructive as to totally destroy a given individual or tribe and cause them to disband in shame and humiliation, erased from the pages of history (such as happened with the tribe of "Numair"). The greatest of these literary masters had their compositions transcribed and hung up on the walls of the noble Kaaba as a badge of honor and an example for future generations. These compositions which were regarded the "best of the best" where given the name of "Al-Muallaqat" (the hanging poems). These were the people whom God sent Muhammad (pbuh) to, and these are the people whom prophet Muhammad (pbuh) repeatedly challenged, over 23 years, to produce a work similar to the Qur'an, standing alone with no tribe to support him and no ally to defend him but God Almighty. In other words he was challenging them in a field which they were the world's foremost authorities in and the source of their greatest strength and pride. Indeed all of God's prophets throughout history have been sent with miracles in the very fields which that prophet's people excelled in so that they might fully comprehend the magnitude of that miracle and have no excuse in ignorance.

These people whom prophet Muhammad (pbuh) stood alone against and challenged to face the Qur'an were no timid sheep. They were men of great pride, misdirected as it may have been, who would rather go to war and die a slow and torturous death rather than allow the slightest indignity to be attached to their names or the most trivial challenge go unanswered. These were people who would go to war at the drop of a hat or the slightest disrespectful word. In spite of all that, when prophet Muhammad (pbuh) brought them the word of God in the noble Qur'an they suddenly fell silent and refused to face its challenge. God continued to reduce the challenge to them, from challenging them to produce a book like the Qur'an, to challenging them to produce a single surah (chapter) like it, to finally challenging them to produce even a few verses like it. And still, no one was able to face the challenge. On the contrary, those who were the best versed in these issues were among the first to convert to Islam and accept God's message. Some of them even went so far as to completely give up altogether on their previous literary work and to publicly declare that faced with the utter perfection and completion of this book that there was nothing left to say and nothing left to compose. Perfection had already been achieved (3).

Why did I get into all of this?. Well it is in order to make it easier to understand some of the reason why the noble words of God in the Qur'an can never be faithfully translated into English and why the first thing most converts to Islam do is to learn Arabic.

For example, as seen in chapter 14 of the book "What Did Jesus Really Say?," we find that many people when reading the Qur'an mistakenly understand the plural references to God through the use of the words "We" and "Us" to mean that God is "many" or "triune" etc. As seen in that book, this has indeed been the very reason why some people of little knowledge of ancient Hebrew even go so far as to claim that the OT Bible's use of such constructs implies a similar "plurality" of God in a "Trinity." Our current author himself at one time defended this belief. However, as seen in that book, this is far from the true meaning. Informed Christian scholars and dictionaries readily recognize the plurals used there as being plurals of respect reverence and exaltation, not plurals of multiplicity. For example, one of the quotes presented in that book is quoted from the Eerdmans Bible Dictionary where we read the following explanation of the word "Elohiym" (God):


"As a name or designation of the God of Israel, the term is understood as a plural of majesty or an intensive plural, indicating the fullness of the supreme (or only) God ... the canonical intent is clearly monotheistic, even where the accompanying verbs or adjectives are grammatically plural (e.g. Gen. 20:13, Exod. 22:9 [Mt 8])"

Eerdmans Bible Dictionary, edited by Allen C. Myers, William B. Eerdmans Publishers, p. 331


This is why to this day we find the Queen of England, French dignitaries, and most Arab leaders referring to themselves, or referred to by others in the plural sense. When the Queen of England refers to herself in her official speeches as "we" does this mean that she too is "a Trinity"? Sadly, even to this day we still can find people of little experience in these issues continuing to insist on their personal forced interpretations of these matters in spite of what they truly mean and in spite of what those who speak the language, or their own scholars, say they mean.

A similar case to the above is the one presented by our current author. The first three verses (Aal-Umran(3):42-45) do indeed use the word "angels." However, this plural form of the word is used to describe only one angel, specifically, angel Gabriel. Such constructs are used in the Arabic language as a symbol of dignity and respect for that person. This is a popular Arabic grammatical construct called "al-majaz al-mursal" which falls under the subheading of Arabic grammar titled "Balaghah" and which we can not get into here since it requires a basic knowledge of the Arabic language and its grammar. Suffice it to say that there are at least two quick clues to this matter which even non-Arabic speaking people can appreciate. The first one is that in the first set of verses, verses 46-48 say: "The angels said... Mary said... HE replied" meaning that we are speaking about an angel designated as "he" and not "they," in the same very verses themselves.

Secondly, a similar construct can be found elsewhere in the Qur'an which can hopefully clarify this construct to non-Arabic speakers. For example, in Al-Nahi(16):120 we read: "Verily Abraham was a nation obedient to Allah and he was not of the polytheists."

We notice here that prophet Abraham (pbuh) is described as a "nation." Does this mean that he is literally a few hundred thousand people? No. This is an Qur'anic term of exaltation and elevation for Abraham above all humans such that he is higher in regard and reward with God than an entire nation of mortals. In the same manner, the status of the angel Gabriel with God is of a similar stature among the angels. There are many other similar constructs in the Arabic language, many of which are applied to angel Gabriel in more than one location in the Qur'an to set him apart from all other angels. These examples include special grammatical constructs as well as special titles (such as the title of "Holy Spirit").

For example, president Clinton is a Washington politician. No one doubts this fact. However, have you ever heard someone say: "President Clinton has just concluded a meeting with senior advisors and other Washington politicians"? Obviously this is a "contradiction" right? If we refer to these other men as "Washington politicians" then we can not then claim that president Clinton too is a "Washington politician." That would contradict this statement. He must be something "other than" a Washington politician, right?

Obviously this is faulty logic. Such constructs are used even in the English language to "set apart" or "dignify" a given individual of special importance over a group of his peers. The fact that President Clinton was mentioned separately from the other Washington politicians is only intended to convey a special status for him over and above "run or the mill" Washington politicians. He is the "President." He is "special." This and other similar constructs are used numerous times in the Qur'an in reference to Angel Gabriel in order to set him apart as a very special and highly esteemed angel with God. For example, in Al-Nahil(66):4 we read: "If you both repent unto God then your hearts have indeed heeded. But if you assist one-another against him (Muhammad, pbuh) then verily Allah is his Patron, and Gabriel, and the righteous believers, and the angels after that shall come to [his] aid."

And in Al-Baqarah(2):98: "Whosoever is an enemy to Allah, His angels, His Messengers, Gabriel, Michael (the angel of the rain), then verily, Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers."

Here we see angel Michael too set apart with a special status and mention. Angel Gabriel is an angel. So is angel Michael. Muslims have no doubt about that. However, Gabriel is not just any angel. He is a special angel. An angel with a special purpose, unique titles, high stature with God and the patron of the prophets. This is how God dignifies and exalts those who serve Him in truth, integrity, and sincerity.

Similar to these examples, we find in the Qur'an that not all prophets are alike. For example, some prophets have been given distinction over others and are mentioned in isolation from the rest as a sign of exaltation for them. For example, God says in the Qur'an in Al-Baqarah(2):253:

"Those messengers! We preferred some of them over others. Some were those who were spoken to by God, others He raised by degrees. And unto Jesus the son of Mary We bestowed the clear proofs and assisted him with the holy Spirit (Gabriel)..."

And in Al-Israa(17):55:

"And your Lord knows best who are in the heavens and the earth. And indeed, We have preferred some of the prophets above others, and to David We gave the Psalms."

Also, in A'al-Umran(3):84:

"Say: 'We believe in Allah and in that which was sent down upon us and that which was sent down upon Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the sons of Jacob, and that which was given unto Moses, Jesus, and the prophets from their Lord...."

Does this mean that Moses, Jesus, Abraham, etc. are not "prophets"? No. This is simply the nature of the language of the Qur'an and one of the methods used to distinguish them above the rest.

Getting back to our current example, we find that in both of the quoted verses angel Gabriel is referred to through popular Arabic constructs of respect and exaltation. In the first it is demonstrated in the use of the plural construct, in the second it is demonstrated in the use of his official title of "Holy Spirit," where we see that the verse says that "We (God) sent unto her (Mary) Our Spirit (Gabriel)..."

Even in English is not too much of a stretch to understand the intent. If a president has a highly esteemed ambassador whom he has entrusted with a significant task, and this president wishes to bestow upon this ambassador and his message an air of importance, then he would not say "I have sent some guy...." or "I have sent one of my people.." since this would reflect badly on that ambassador as someone who is not even worthy to remember his name or his service. It would also reflect badly on the message itself since it would imply that the message was of such little importance that it was entrusted to someone of such little merit. Rather, one way to convey an air of dignity and importance to the messenger as well as the message would be to mention the man's office, such as to say "I sent my ambassador.." Another way would be to directly exalt him such as saying "I sent my most trusted and faithful aid..." And finally, in Arabic one could use the plural form such as to say "I sent THEM (him).."

And for the rest of the so called 'contradictions''. here is the link which refutes all these LIES against the Noble Quran:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/thetruth.htm
 
Well you posted a lot of what others had to say, but nothing of what you have to say.

Anyone raised with animals can see the blood clot looks like a leech embryo. I saw that when I was in my teen years when a pet miscarried. Embryos come from egg and sperm, the merging of DNA. A miracle from God, but not what the quran says.

I will look for other answers you have cut and pasted here.
 
Originally posted by chalcedony
Well you posted a lot of what others had to say, but nothing of what you have to say.

Anyone raised with animals can see the blood clot looks like a leech embryo. I saw that when I was in my teen years when a pet miscarried. Embryos come from egg and sperm, the merging of DNA. A miracle from God, but not what the quran says.

I will look for other answers you have cut and pasted here.

it is amazing when you got corenered and stuck in small corner you restore to personal attacks.....

What do you mean what you have to say ? this is what i wanted to say...I KNOW, TRUTH HURTS.
 
Originally posted by Proud_Syrian

I KNOW, TRUTH HURTS.
Then you must be in the most horrible pain, lucky for you, your brain is too numb to feel, from all that brainwashing.
What did you say? That the Quran is a miracle? It's too bad so many people are led astray
 
Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
Ohhhh, I read your wonderful bible and it made me throw up, i felt so sick.....

Poor boy, the truth hurts so bad, your dreams are going up in a puff of smoke! you'll feel better when you become a Christian, then you will understand all the stuff that confused you so bad & when you meet the "REAL" Jesus, ask Him to hold you in His arms, so that you can see the nail marks on His hands.

but what happens when you read the quran? it washes your brain so well, that you dream of a paradise with 70 virgins? Now what are you going to do with 70 virgins? What does your god expect you to do? so your god is a sensual god, a god of human pleasures, a god of sex? hmmm, sounds like satan, no? are you sure that the whole quran is not all satanic verses? I think so, why else would your religion give you the right to kill, conquer, pillage, rape & steal from unbelievers? what a merciful, loving, kind god is that? so slavery makes you sick? why does islam still condone it then? check out the Sudan right now, Saudi Arabia not so long ago, also ask the Pilipino & Koreans how they feel about having their passports taken away while they work in arab lands?

Remember, there is no miracle, if the quran had any tampering after the fact; poor old Mohammad wasn’t even decomposed before the quran was fixed by those that came afterwards, if you can read Arabic, then you would be able to find out, unless your brainwashing affects your eyes too?
 
Originally posted by Randolfo
Then you must be in the most horrible pain, lucky for you, your brain is too numb to feel, from all that brainwashing.
What did you say? That the Quran is a miracle? It's too bad so many people are led astray

you are really making my day every time i read your nonesense, but here is something VERY SWEET for you from the BBC:

Snooker Champ Converts to Islam
By Martha Doyle
BBC religious affairs reporter

Former world snooker champion Ronnie O'Sullivan has become the latest in a long line of sportsmen and celebrities to convert to
the fastest-growing religion in Britain

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3155784.stm
 
Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
you are really making my day every time i read your nonesense, but here is something VERY SWEET for you from the BBC:
Snooker Champ Converts to Islam By Martha Doyle
BBC religious affairs reporter
I guess the sweet taste, has turned sour, even bitter, don't spit it out, you have to swallow dear boy.

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/snooker/story/0,10158,1055103,00.html

Nonsense? you must be reading the quran too much, STOP! you'll go blind!
 
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