Statistical Miracles of the Noble Quran

[SoSlick]

I'll be looking forward to making a few jaws drop.........


coming soon to a sciforum near you






Watch This space

 

[Proud_Syrian]

Originally posted by James R
<i>Coincidences can happen onece or twice not hundered of times in ONE BOOK!!!</i>

Sure they can - and the longer the book the more "hidden messages" you can create from its contents. That's why the bible and the Qu'ran are so popular with "code" nutters.

<i>we are dealing with the true uncorrupted word of Allah Almighty.</i>

Oh? How do you know?

Look man, dont say silly things, you cant have hunderd of coincindences in one book....

How do I know the Noble Quran is the true word of God ? show me ONE contradiction in the Quran !! no one through history was able to find a single contradiction or scientific errors in the Quran.

 

[Proud_Syrian]

Re: Re: Statistical Miracles of the Noble Quran

Originally posted by Randolfo
Comments on the assertion that there are
“Statistical Miracles of the Noble Quran”

First of all, the Quran was put together after Mohammad’s death by an early caliph
============================
P S:

This is Not true, the Quran was complete just before the death of the prophet Muhammad(pbuh).

=============================
Second, it was not put in chronological order, as given, but from longest to shortest suras
=============================
P S:

WRONG...the second surah in the Quran(the cow) is very long.

==============================
Third, there is no telling how much of the original was saved after the deaths of some of
those entrusted with it to memory or palm frond
==============================
p s:

back to my first answer.

==============================
Fourth, the fact that only the so-called original Arabic Quran is correct, implies to me that
it is an Arabic tool for conquest, which by the subsequent actions of its followers proves
me right, they didn’t send missionaries first, they sent conquerors to all ends of the earth
================================
P S:

WRONG AGAIN, it is well KNOWN historical fact that the muslim armies NEVER reached Indonesia and yet now indonesia is the BIGGEST MUSLIM COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WITH 200 MILLION MUSLIM !!!

Another example is the barbaric pagan tribes who invaded the muslim world in the 12th century, they were so brutal, they destroyed Baghadad totally, they were massively superior, if they wished, they could have forcefully converted muslims into their pagan religion, what happened howver is UNIQUE in history, for the first time in history an invading forces so superior CONVERT to the religion of the weaker invaded.......GO READ SOME HISTORY.

===================================
Fifth, any god that can only ‘speak’ Arabic, must be Arabic (as in a tribal god)
================================
P S:

Allah does not speak Arabic, speaking is HUMAN ATTRIBUTE and cant be applied on God, the Quran was revealed in Arabic because it was sent to the Arabs who were so corrupt, Islam message is UNIVERSAL and that's why we have 55 muslim countries span from INDONESIA IN THE EAST TO MOROCCO IN THE WEST.
==========================
Sixth, if there is no compulsion in religion, why can’t people leave islam without repercussion?
==========================
P S:

Did you ever see someone got killed for leaving islam ??

Every system has its own laws, if you desert the army in certain times you will be killed, so why this hypocrisy ???

==============================
Seven, if islam says that it is more correct than Judaism or Christianity because it came after
to correct them, then all later revelations can be the last, so that mormonism would be more
correct that islam? Since it is after?
==============================
P S:

This is nonesense, first of all, you cant compare small sect like the mormons to the largest Abrahimic religions.

Second, everyone who came after the prophet Muhammd claiming to be prophet has been proved to be liar either by studying their lives or reading about their ends ( the founder of the mormons cult is great example ).

Check these sites for more information:

http://www.muslimheritage.com/

http://www.xmission.com:8000/~dderhak/index/moors.htm

http://www.harunyahya.com

http://www.themodernreligion.com

http://www.it-is-truth.org

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Re: Re: Re: Statistical Miracles of the Noble Quran

Originally posted by Proud_Syrian

First of all, the Quran was put together after Mohammad’s death by an early caliph
============================
P S:
This is Not true, the Quran was complete just before the death of the prophet Muhammad

Check history, you are wrong

=============================
Second, it was not put in chronological order, as given, but from longest to shortest suras
=============================
P S:
WRONG...the second surah in the Quran(the cow) is very long.

Open up your Quran, check it out, just look

==============================
Third, there is no telling how much of the original was saved after the deaths of some of
those entrusted with it to memory or palm frond
==============================
p s:
back to my first answer.

You must read only the sanitized version of history

==============================
Fourth, the fact that only the so-called original Arabic Quran is correct, implies to me that
it is an Arabic tool for conquest, which by the subsequent actions of its followers proves
me right, they didn’t send missionaries first, they sent conquerors to all ends of the earth
================================
P S:
WRONG AGAIN, it is well KNOWN historical fact that the muslim armies NEVER reached Indonesia and yet now indonesia is the BIGGEST MUSLIM COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WITH 200 MILLION MUSLIM !!!

I said the armies went out first, not “ONLY”, lets see to the West they ended up all across North Africa to Spain, stopped by Charles Martel at Pointers, France. To the North they ended up across to the doors of Constantinople stopped by what remained of the Byzantine Empire. To the South all across the Arabian Peninsula (stopped by the sea). To the East up to the steppe (where they womped the Chinese T’ang army). You can look up the years. The missionaries came later.

Another example is the barbaric pagan tribes who invaded the muslim world in the 12th century, they were so brutal, they destroyed Baghadad totally, they were massively superior, if they wished, they could have forcefully converted muslims into their pagan religion, what happened howver is UNIQUE in history, for the first time in history an invading forces so superior CONVERT to the religion of the weaker invaded.......GO READ SOME HISTORY.

I know, Tamer lame did, but the Mongols, Turks & Tartars saw a true warriors religion when the saw it, so why shouldn’t they convert? You can steal, rape, pillage, all the name of religion, if you live, you are rich with plunder, if you die, whoa, you go to heaven, 70 virgins & paradise, who could refuse?

===================================
Fifth, any god that can only ‘speak’ Arabic, must be Arabic (as in a tribal god)
================================
P S:
Allah does not speak Arabic, speaking is HUMAN ATTRIBUTE and cant be applied on God, the Quran was revealed in Arabic because it was sent to the Arabs who were so corrupt, Islam message is UNIVERSAL and that's why we have 55 muslim countries span from INDONESIA IN THE EAST TO MOROCCO IN THE WEST.

If it is so universal, why can't a Mexican like me see that? I see an oppresser religion, a cultural imperialist religion, a backward religion. Who has a so-called monthly fast, that only lasts during the daylight hours? Then the feast? Who makes suicide & murder a virtue? Who makes stealing & plunder from non-believers ok? Who makes lying to non-believers ok? Can you say “ISLAM”?

==========================
Sixth, if there is no compulsion in religion, why can’t people leave islam without repercussion?
==========================
P S:
Did you ever see someone got killed for leaving islam ??

No, I don’t live in a muslim country, you can check it out for yourself, use your browser, be a brave Syrian!

Every system has its own laws, if you desert the army in certain times you will be killed, so why this hypocrisy ???

So, you admit it’s an army? People can leave Christianity, Judaism, whatever here, if you live in Syria, do an experiment, tell every body that you have left Islam for Christianity, lets see how long you last? Are you a Brave Syrian?

==============================
Seven, if islam says that it is more correct than Judaism or Christianity because it came after
to correct them, then all later revelations can be the last, so that mormonism would be more
correct that islam? Since it is after?
==============================
P S:
This is nonesense, first of all, you cant compare small sect like the mormons to the largest Abrahimic religions.

Hey, islam had a small start too, how can you tell that it isn’t the “TRUE” religion? What is your criteria? How can you tell truth from error? What if God had really made Christianity the true religion & you couldn’t tell?

Second, everyone who came after the prophet Muhammd claiming to be prophet has been proved to be liar either by studying their lives or reading about their ends ( the founder of the mormons cult is great example ).

So how does Mohammad stack up to Jesus, the Buddha, and J. Smith? What criteria do you use? Was not Mohammad a murderer, a thief, a bandit, a terrorist, a deceiver? a warlord? a polygamist? a child molester? Where was his purity? His compassion? His mercy?

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Re: Statistical Miracles of the Noble Quran

if it is so miraculous, why isn't this post in the Math, physics, or history sections? Let's see you put up the Quran against the nerds, the geeks, the geniuses? No can do, they'll laugh you off the planet! Get the comp's to tear it apart? You can not stand logic, truth, bye

 

[James R]

Proud_Syrian:

<i>How do I know the Noble Quran is the true word of God ? show me ONE contradiction in the Quran !! no one through history was able to find a single contradiction or scientific errors in the Quran.</i>

Start here:

http://answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/

 

[Proud_Syrian]

Originally posted by James R
Proud_Syrian:

<i>How do I know the Noble Quran is the true word of God ? show me ONE contradiction in the Quran !! no one through history was able to find a single contradiction or scientific errors in the Quran.</i>

Start here:

http://answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/

YEAH RIGHT !! Answering Islam hate site !! LOOOOOOOL

You can start with here too:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran.htm

 

[Proud_Syrian]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Statistical Miracles of the Noble Quran

Originally posted by Randolfo
Check history, you are wrong

==============================
P S:

Look man, you know you are ignorant about Islam history so why you want to insist on your ignorance ??

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/history/chronology/

================================

Open up your Quran, check it out, just look
================================
P S:

Again, stop being pathetic, I know my Quran, this is the second Surah and it is VERY VERY LONG:

http://www.unn.ac.uk/societies/islamic/quran/noble/nobae002.htm

================================
You must read only the sanitized version of history
==================================
P S:

Oh right !!! sanitized version of history is what ISLAMOPHOBES usually read.

================================
I said the armies went out first, not “ONLY”, lets see to the West they ended up all across North Africa to Spain, stopped by Charles Martel at Pointers, France. To the North they ended up across to the doors of Constantinople stopped by what remained of the Byzantine Empire. To the South all across the Arabian Peninsula (stopped by the sea). To the East up to the steppe (where they womped the Chinese T’ang army). You can look up the years. The missionaries came later.
================================
P S:

Again you are showing deep bias against the history of Islam, muslim armies went there to crush the romans and the Spanish who were threatning and murdering Muslims.

So, I did not hear a single word from you about INDONESIA AND MALAYSIA and how they became muslims !!! could it be you dont have an answer ??

Anyway, to read about this famous myth that Islam spread by sword, check this out:

http://www.thetruereligion.org/swordspread.htm

http://www.unn.ac.uk/societies/islamic/convert/sword1.htm

================================
I know, Tamer lame did, but the Mongols, Turks & Tartars saw a true warriors religion when the saw it, so why shouldn’t they convert? You can steal, rape, pillage, all the name of religion, if you live, you are rich with plunder, if you die, whoa, you go to heaven, 70 virgins & paradise, who could refuse?
================================
P S:

What kind of nonesense is that ?? the Mongols and the Turks and the Tatar were killing murdering and plundering BEFORE they converted to Islam, they dont need Islam, yet THEY CONVERTED and their conversion transformed them into CIVILIZED NATIONS..

stop parroting this myth about the 72 virgins...it is utter lie, nothing in Islam about virgins...LOL

=================================

If it is so universal, why can't a Mexican like me see that? I see an oppresser religion, a cultural imperialist religion, a backward religion. Who has a so-called monthly fast, that only lasts during the daylight hours? Then the feast? Who makes suicide & murder a virtue? Who makes stealing & plunder from non-believers ok? Who makes lying to non-believers ok? Can you say “ISLAM”?
==================================
P S:

Hang on a second !! are you saying Islam make it ok to steal and plunder and lie to non-believer ??? SHOW ME WHERE IN THE QURAN ALLAH ALMIGHTY ORDERED MUSLIMS TO DO THAT ???

Stop being brainwashed by lies and myths....

Islam is SPREADING IN MEXICO SO FAST...YOU JUST NEED TO ASK THOSE MEXICANS WHY ON EARTH THEY ARE CONVERTING TO '' BACKWARD''' RELIGION:

CHECK THESE MEXICAN SITES:

http://www.islammexico.org.mx/Fundamentos/Salat/Salat_Eid.htm

http://hispanicmuslims.com/articles/mexico.html

http://www.islam.com.mx/home.html

http://www.finalcall.com/international/mexico07-02-2002.htm

http://www.webislam.com/numeros/1999/articulos/TX_99_11.HTM

http://www.beautifulislam.net/converts/mexico_discovers_islam.htm

http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Park/6443/LatinAmerica/mexico.html

===================================

No, I don’t live in a muslim country, you can check it out for yourself, use your browser, be a brave Syrian!
================================
P S:

Check it for myself ?? LOL..... you are like a parrot, you repeat what others say without even bothering to check it out...LOL.

==============================

So, you admit it’s an army? People can leave Christianity, Judaism, whatever here, if you live in Syria, do an experiment, tell every body that you have left Islam for Christianity, lets see how long you last? Are you a Brave Syrian?
============================
P S:

I did not say Islam is an army, hell, do you understand English ?? I gave example of the army and if you desert the army in certain times you will be killed....there are some misguided people who leave Islam, NOTHING HAPPEN to them....show me EVIDENCE, SHOW ME LINKS....I DONT ACCEPT HEARSAY MR.PARROT.

================================
Hey, islam had a small start too, how can you tell that it isn’t the “TRUE” religion? What is your criteria? How can you tell truth from error? What if God had really made Christianity the true religion & you couldn’t tell?
=============================
P S:

Islam is the true religion because it is the fastest growing religion in the WORLD, muslims are now 2 BILLION and growing, churches in Europe are being sold to muslims to convert them into mosques....
==================================
So how does Mohammad stack up to Jesus, the Buddha, and J. Smith? What criteria do you use? Was not Mohammad a murderer, a thief, a bandit, a terrorist, a deceiver? a warlord? a polygamist? a child molester? Where was his purity? His compassion? His mercy?
================================
P S:

You are so rude, so abusive and so hateful....someone who described THE NOBELEST MAN IN THE WORLD LIKE THAT IS JUST NOT WORTHY TO ANSWER TO....

Read this SIR:

"My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular level." Michael H. Hart, THE 100: A RANKING OF THE MOST INFLUENTIAL PERSONS IN HISTORY, New York: Hart Publishing Company, Inc., 1978, p. 33.

"I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion for from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today."

George Bernard Shaw, THE GENUINE ISLAM, Vol. 1, No. 81936.

"He was Caesar and Pope in one; but he was Pope without Pope's pretensions, Caesar without the legions of Caesar: without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a palace, without a fixed revenue; if ever any man had the right to say that he ruled by the right divine, it was Mohammed, for he had all the power without its instruments and without its supports."

Bosworth Smith, MOHAMMAD AND MOHAMMADANISM, London, 1874, p. 92.

PEACE BE UPON THOSE WHO FOLLOW THE RIGHT PATH.

 

[James R]

Proud_Syrian:

<i>YEAH RIGHT !! Answering Islam hate site !! LOOOOOOOL</i>

Either what they say in this context is right or it isn't. There are plenty of other sites which give similar lists of examples.

BTW, proving that the bible has contradictions and errors does not at all affect whether or not the Qu'ran has contradictions or errors. I find it strange that you seek to link the two.

 

[Flores]

Originally posted by James R
Either what they say in this context is right or it isn't. There are plenty of other sites which give similar lists of examples.

It is purely not right. I have looked at many of their examples, and either they flat out wrong in the way that they applied simple linear algebra to a partial differential phenomena or they took things out of context where the answer was given in the following verse. Two small example of how they applied math wrong comes to mind.
1- Inheritance law. The law states that when a man dies, his debts must be paid, then his wife get 1/8 of the remainder, and his daughters get 2/3, and his sons get 1/2, bla bla bla. They automatically jump to the conclusion that Muhammed can't count and start adding the fraction up to show they don't add up to one....How idiotic? Of course, they fail to see that we are talking about the remainder of the inheritance and not simple division. Noone might get anything if the debt exceed the inheritance, but if the inheritance exceed the debt, then 1/8 of the remainder goes first to the wife, after the wife, the daughters inherit 2/3 of the inheritance, the remainder of the inheritance gets divided into half, where half goes to the son. Now, they tell you, the son is getting more than the daughter, but how do they know that? Girls get paid first in the sequence and the remainder might be so small that half of it might be much less than the 2/3 that the girl got.

2- Creation. God say he created the universe in 7 days, and he also say that he created heaven in two days, planets in 4 days, living creature in two days, so they add up the numbers and automatically jump the gun and say......Muhammed is an idiot who can't count.....But they are truly the idiots, because they failed to consider that the creation must have been overlapped and that the living could have been created together or partially together with the planets, ect.

Please bring on any verses that shout contradiction at you, and I'll be happy to clear it up for you.

Originally posted by James R
BTW, proving that the bible has contradictions and errors does not at all affect whether or not the Qu'ran has contradictions or errors. I find it strange that you seek to link the two.

I agree on that one. PS is not linking the two, he's merely making sure that another soul who have no problem believeing in the bible that to me is 1000 time shakier is putting a deaf ear on all the contradictions in his house and investigating the Quran. You obviously don't believe in the bible or the Quran, so that is not directed to you

 

[James R]

Do I really need to list a whole bunch of other sites which point out errors and contradictions in the Qu'ran?

I'm pretty sure that no number of examples will convince either of you. It's all about faith, isn't it?

 

[Flores]

Originally posted by James R
Do I really need to list a whole bunch of other sites which point out errors and contradictions in the Qu'ran?

And do you really need to mention these sites at all if you don't intend to carry an intelligent discussion?

Originally posted by James R
I'm pretty sure that no number of examples will convince either of you. It's all about faith, isn't it?

You haven't brought up a single example, and you have not discussed anything. You made blanket statements, that makes me believe that no justification will ever convince you either, since your faith seem to be pretty established.

What a shame, I thought you carry around Aristotle wise words for a reason.

 

[James R]

Flores:

<i>And do you really need to mention these sites at all if you don't intend to carry an intelligent discussion?</i>

I mentioned the site because somebody made an incorrect claim about how the Qu'ran contains no errors.

<i>You haven't brought up a single example, and you have not discussed anything.</i>

I've pointed you towards many examples. I trust you can read.

<i>You made blanket statements, that makes me believe that no justification will ever convince you either, since your faith seem to be pretty established.</i>

Now I'm confused. What is it that I'm supposed to have faith in, exactly? It seems to me that there are certain people in this thread (and elsewhere) making blanket statements about the Qu'ran based on faith.

What's that in the distance? Do I see a kettle talking to a pot?

<i>What a shame, I thought you carry around Aristotle wise words for a reason.</i>

I do indeed.

 

[Proud_Syrian]

Originally posted by James R
Proud_Syrian:

<i>YEAH RIGHT !! Answering Islam hate site !! LOOOOOOOL</i>

Either what they say in this context is right or it isn't. There are plenty of other sites which give similar lists of examples.

BTW, proving that the bible has contradictions and errors does not at all affect whether or not the Qu'ran has contradictions or errors. I find it strange that you seek to link the two.

I am not linking the two James, but I find it odd that a clever moderator like you can go to low hate site such as answering islam !!

I have numerous sites that refute all lies and alleged contradictions in the noble Quran. The Quran is errors-free...fact.

 

[Proud_Syrian]

Originally posted by James R
Do I really need to list a whole bunch of other sites which point out errors and contradictions in the Qu'ran?

I'm pretty sure that no number of examples will convince either of you. It's all about faith, isn't it?

No James, Islam is NOT about faith, we are UNLIKE christians, Islam is based on REASON and LOGIC.

I am ready to address any alleged contradictions or errors one by one.

Thanks.

 

[James R]

<i>Islam is NOT about faith, we are UNLIKE christians, Islam is based on REASON and LOGIC.</i>

Oh, good.

Logically, the Palestinian-Israeli dispute is a waste of human life, isn't it? Jerusalem should be shared by Jews, Christians and Muslims. I'm sure that, as a logical Muslim, you'll agree.

 

[Flores]

Me Me ME

Originally posted by James R
[BOh, good.

Logically, the Palestinian-Israeli dispute is a waste of human life, isn't it? Jerusalem should be shared by Jews, Christians and Muslims. I'm sure that, as a logical Muslim, you'll agree. [/B]

I agree totally, Jerusalem should be under neutral grounds and be open free city for all.....Tell that to the jews who call it Israel, hang their flag in it everywhere, and are currently occupying it and making the poor palestenians go through hell check points to visit......

Good point proud Syrian....Islam has nothing to do with Faith.....It's an active responsible choice to submit to the creator based on personal understanding and coupeled with major accountability for one's choice. The Quran doesn't have a Sura that is free from the sentence..."for those that understand".....So literally, god doesn't like the dumb even if they have faith.

 

[James R]

I'm glad we agree on something, Flores.

<i>So literally, god doesn't like the dumb even if they have faith.</i>

Really? God doesn't like dumb people? Why not?

 

[James R]

The Quran seems to make a lot of claims about how humans were created and what they were created from. Were we created from earth(11:61), dry clay (15:26,28,33, 17:61, 32:7), nothing (19:67) (or NOT from nothing (52:35)), wet earth (23:12), mire (38:71), water (25:54, 21:30, 24:45) or dust ( 3:59, 30:20, 35:11)?

This seems contradictory to me. Please explain.

It also seems to refer to a flat Earth:

God made earth like a carpet spread out…20:53
The earth is like a carpet spread out…43.10
Allah has spread out the earth…51:48
Allah made the earth a carpet…71:19
Allah made the earth as a wide expanse…78:6

Isn't the Earth a sphere?

What about this:

And he followed a road; Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness. (Qur'an 18:85-86)

How can a man reach the setting-place of the sun? How can the sun set "in a muddy spring"? Is this a mistake?

The Quran also says God created seven heavens, and decked the lowest heaven with lamps (Qur'an 67:3-5) and adorned it with the beauty of the stars (Qur'an 37:6). The Qur'an also states that the moon is within these seven heavens (Qur'an 71:15-16).

What are these lamps it is talking about? There aren't any lamps in the sky, are there?

 

[Flores]

Originally posted by James R
Really? God doesn't like dumb people? Why not?

Of course before I venue in this discussion, we must agree on the meaning of the word dumb. Dumb is not by any means a diseace or mental retardation. I would define it as mental laziness or concsiously abstaining from reaching one's potential and aptitude tthat result in ignorance. A dumb or ignorant person doesn't usually view himself/herself as dumb.

Dumbness is comparable to darkness, laziness in tackeling one's own problems and understanding of the root cause, can lead to ignorance about the problem and one's self. This ignorance is darkness because no guided steps can be taken in the correct direction unless the person figures out how to untangle the mess he built up over time. hence the use of the words light and darkness in the bible and Quran. The light spoken for in the scriptures is not a physical light, but a vivid crisp understanding that can help the person take further steps in the right path.

Understanding is the true light of believers that guides them in their path. Blind faith is bull shit that god doesn't accept.