St. Paul's God

c20H25N3o said:
Not by guessing but by faith! Look you can ask me to prove stuff as much as you like. No one has ever seen God so I am unlikely to have a pair of magic goggles that I can give you so that you can see him.

If the fact that I cant prove God's existence makes me a lost soul with no hope as being as intelligent as the scientists then I guess that is my lot. I will have to accept that. Please, carry on.
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Don't be silly, I never asked you to prove God's existence.

I only asked why you believed you have the same Spirit? Why don't you believe you have the same Spirit that a Mormon claims, or a Jehova's witness or even Arians? What about those who burned witches and fought wars in the name of Christ? Do you arbitrarily say you have a different Spirit?

Then simply tell me why!
 
§outh§tar said:
Don't be silly, I never asked you to prove God's existence.

I only asked why you believed you have the same Spirit? Why don't you believe you have the same Spirit that a Mormon claims, or a Jehova's witness or even Arians? What about those who burned witches and fought wars in the name of Christ? Do you arbitrarily say you have a different Spirit?

Then simply tell me why!
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Because I see things the same way Paul does after his conversion. That's why.
 
§outh§tar said:
Why then do you believe what Paul says is truth?
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He believes it on faith I'm supposing, which I don't see anything necessarily wrong with. Now if you and I could get lobotomies to make OUR minds "believe", we'd be in good shape, wouldn't we? ;)
 
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anonymous2 said:
He believes it on faith I'm supposing, which I don't see anything necessarily wrong with. Now if you and I could get lobotomies to make OUR minds "believe", we'd be in good shape, wouldn't we? ;)
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Hallelujah! Now even we can have visions and know the TRUTH! :D
 
Dear rrt7,
Let me begin by saying that in my experience almost all the people that I have known that were deeply involved in religious thought were and are decent people leading decent lives, and that I think this basic decency far outweighs any subscription to a given theological position. I am particularly drawn to your seeming commitment to and love of truth.

aguy2
 
Dear rtt7,
In examining the epistles of what I think was the "Saul/Paul team" it seems to me that they all but made out a list of the teachings of the Christ and methodically nullified or reversed each one in its turn, but there are two salient points I would like to make in this post.
(1) By propagating a 'false image' of the Christ, as was prophesied in the book of Revelation, they successfully seduced many to veiw Jesus as an object of worship and thus to break the first and foremost of the 'Ten Commandments'.
(2) The Christ taught us, "But be ye not called Rabbi: for one is your Master even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your master, even Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant." (Mt.23:7-10)
It is my contention that Saul/Paul in word and in action established the precedence and scriptural rational for the hierocracy of the majority of Christian churchs, in defiance of the teachings of the real master.

aguy2
 
battig1370 said:
Here is what Saul/St.Paul wrote about his God, "And for this cause GOD shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a LIE." -( 2 Thess. 2:11 ).

Is there A LIE so big and massive that it is IMPOSSIBLE to believe it's a LIE?

"THE CLOAKING OF EVIL" ---> The DECEIVER, Saul/St.Paul's Christ has cloaked his wickness with the garment and name of Jesus for nearly 2000 years. The DECEIVER through Saul/St.Paul said, "Abstain from all appearance of evil." - ( Thess.5:22 ), and JESUS said, "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.


ABOUT SAUL'S CHRIST. On the Road to Damascus a vision of a blinding light came to Saul, from his Lord, the God of his fathers. This Lord said to Saul, "Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?" Saul answered, Who art thou, Lord?" Saul must have been very surprized that his Lord, called himself 'The Jesus of Nazareth'. After this Saul arrived in Damascus where Ananias came to Saul. Ananias said to Saul, " The God of our fathers has chosen you." -( Acts 22:14 ) --- Who was and is the God of Saul's and Ananias's father. Both they and their fathers were Pharisees, that JESUS spoke of, who were the pious religious. --- JESUS said "Ye are of your father the Devil, and the lust of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.(John 8:44). --- The God of Saul's and Ananias's fathers was not JESUS, the ALPHA and OMEGA, but their God was and is the Devil, as JESUS said.

After the Road to Damascus event, Saul went to Jerusalem where he was brought in front of the council, there Saul cried out, "I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee.-( Acts 23:6 ) JESUS said, "Woe unto you, Pharisees ---> Matthew chapter 23. " For ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."

Is there A LIE so big and massive that it is IMPOSSIBLE to believe it's a LIE?

The reason that most Christians MUST believe it's unthinkable and impossible that Satan came to Saul as an angel of light, saying "I am Jesus of Nazareth", to deceive the whole world, is because the consequence of this being TRUE would be so massive that it would bring about a great spiritual earthquake that would crumble all the foundations of the christian churches.

Let the Spirit of Love and Truth be with you and guide you.

Peace be with you, Paul
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This is a pretty funny argument. First, your argument is stupid - fathers does not mean one generation (my father) it means ancestors -- he he, you were just kidding, right? The god of their fathers means the god of their ancestors - Yehovah.

Second, many millions (billions?) have made the mistake of following Paul and forgetting to follow Jesus (Yeshua). Paul himself warns of this. I have always been a little suspicious of Paul. Paul was around at the time of Jesus and Jesus could have found Paul and made him a disciple - yet Jesus did not. This doesn't by itself disqualify Paul, but it certainly makes him a second tier apostle. Nevertheless, I will listen to Paul as long as his writings don't conflict with the sayings of Jesus. If they do, then I have two choices - first, I can assume I am not understanding what Paul is saying, or second, I can call Paul a liar. Thankfully, all conflicts I am aware of thus far have fallen into the first category.

Paul's God was the Devil!!!! He He He, very funny...
 
§outh§tar said:
Hallelujah! Now even we can have visions and know the TRUTH! :D
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Southstar - you do realise you are prasing God don't you? The word Hallelujah is a compound word meaning "Praise Jehovah". The Hebrew word Hallel means to Boast of or Praise and the word Jah (pronounced Yah) is the short form of the name Jehovah. So, good for you, keep it up! Hallelujah!
 
c20H25N3o said:
Conviction. Nothing more, nothing less.
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So you are going to base your belief system in part or in full on what Paul claims, albeit you are totally ignorant of his intentions? What then does lead you to be 'convicted' concerning the Pauline epistles? The fact that he claimed to have visions?
 
David F. said:
Southstar - you do realise you are prasing God don't you? The word Hallelujah is a compound word meaning "Praise Jehovah". The Hebrew word Hallel means to Boast of or Praise and the word Jah (pronounced Yah) is the short form of the name Jehovah. So, good for you, keep it up! Hallelujah!
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:confused: I know what hallelujah means.. i was a Christian..
 
SouthStar,

We're not "totally ignorant" of Paul's intentions - he makes them clear enough.
 
§outh§tar said:
So you are going to base your belief system in part or in full on what Paul claims, albeit you are totally ignorant of his intentions? What then does lead you to be 'convicted' concerning the Pauline epistles? The fact that he claimed to have visions?
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I have already told you but you do not listen. It is 'conviction' that I have.
Conviction came upon me and I accepted it for what it was. It is that it is.
My conviction ( as was Paul's) is that Jesus Christ was sent by God to redeem man and to restore him back to God. I did not know God but instead mocked the Christians for their stupidity. I revelled in my own intelligence and tried to tear down their peace with logic and reasoning. They stood firm however because they were convicted.
God opened my eyes that were firmly shut. I empathise with Paul, we love the same God. It is obvious to me. And I am able to discern his motives at every turn and can confirm that he received the same Spirit that helps me.
In fact the one thing that Paul says that causes me to know the man is " I thank God that He gave me my own 'person'" I can so empathise with that.
I love Paul with all my heart. I can do nothing else.

peace

c20
 
Just wonder, if Paul's God is the false God and he has sucessfully hijacked the religion founded by Jesus, then which religion's God nowadays is, or closest to, Jesus's God?

If this religion has died, then Devil (or whatever anti-God entity) has triumphed over Jesus' God and it is very likely that Jesus' religion is also false too.
 
melodicbard said:
Just wonder, if Paul's God is the false God and he has sucessfully hijacked the religion founded by Jesus, then which religion's God nowadays is, or closest to, Jesus's God?

If this religion has died, then Devil (or whatever anti-God entity) has triumphed over Jesus' God and it is very likely that Jesus' religion is also false too.
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You are full of if's and wonders but no substance! I suggest you read Paul and then you may know that he preaches nothing but life in Christ Jesus.

If Pauls God is the false God! What rubbish!
 
Jenyar: SouthStar, We're not "totally ignorant" of Paul's intentions - he makes them clear enough.
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M*W: Unfortunately, this is not so. If you were "totally clear" as to Paul's intentions -- you would not be Christian.
 
melodicbard said:
Just wonder, if Paul's God is the false God and he has sucessfully hijacked the religion founded by Jesus, then which religion's God nowadays is, or closest to, Jesus's God?

If this religion has died, then Devil (or whatever anti-God entity) has triumphed over Jesus' God and it is very likely that Jesus' religion is also false too.
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I do think this is much of what happened, but I don't think the blame falls on Paul but on follower's of Paul who later corrupted his teachings, but through it all, the Word remains.

I don't think this religion is dead, just subdued. Even the corruption of Paul's words still contains a kernal of truth. From time to time, the true belivers rise up and try to take back their religion from those who have corrupted it - Luther, Wycliff, Wesley, Puritains, Zuza, Bible Churches - just to name a few. The problem is that they can never completely rid themselves of the corruption and thus they fall back into apostacy after a generation or two or ten.

I suspect that Paul told us the answer to this dilema. Some are Called, Some are Justified and Some are Glorified. This might even be taken as levels of rewards. What level of reward have you attained?
 
c20H25N3o: I have already told you but you do not listen. It is 'conviction' that I have. Conviction came upon me and I accepted it for what it was. It is that it is. My conviction (as was Paul's) is that Jesus Christ was sent by God to redeem man and to restore him back to God.
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M*W: No one doubts your 'conviction.' You accepted what you believed to be the truth and, as such, you have 'convictions' to your perception of the 'truth.'
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c20H25No: I did not know God but instead mocked the Christians for their stupidity. I revelled in my own intelligence and tried to tear down their peace with logic and reasoning. They stood firm however because they were convicted.
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M*W: The simple case of the 'convicted' leading the 'convicted.'
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c20H25No: God opened my eyes that were firmly shut.
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M*W: How did you know for sure it was "God?"
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c20H25No: I empathise with Paul, we love the same God. It is obvious to me. And I am able to discern his motives at every turn and can confirm that he received the same Spirit that helps me.
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M*W: I believe you do love the 'same God' as Paul. It is also obvious to me. I'm sure you have a very close relationship with Paul and his teachings, and I do believe you and Paul have received the 'same spirit.'
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c2OH25No: In fact the one thing that Paul says that causes me to know the man is "I thank God that He gave me my own 'person'" I can so empathise with that. I love Paul with all my heart. I can do nothing else.
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M*W: It is not Christianity you believe but Paulianity. There's a big difference. The teachings of Jesus were to be taught through the Jerusalem Church of James, not Paul. Paul never knew Jesus. Are you saying that you have as much wisdom as Paul? Then you don't know Jesus. It's that simple! Paul was a very self-aggrandizing and selfish evil man. This is who you worship? You should give it more thought and quit believing blindly.
 
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