St. Paul's God

[c20H25N3o]

The irony here battig1370 is that you yourself have been deceived.
I testify that the Paul you are talking of received the Spirit of God and indeed preaches the truth of God. Paul's revelation of God is an account that blesses me daily and 'sets me free' because of my love of the 'truth'. It is so fitting that God should choose this once murderer of Christians to reveal yet more of His forgiving nature to sinners such as us. These are they mysteries that your eyes have been shut to. You wold love to believe that all those believers out there have been deceived because it would make you feel less singled out surrounding your own deception.
I tell you the truth, the clay pots that God has made he has made for His purpose and His pleasure. I pray that God opens your eyes to the murderer inside of you so that you may turn in all humility to him who is able to wipe your sin away and whose Grace declares you 'Not Guilty'. May God forgive you!

peace

c20

 

[nicoman]

St Paul was my pauper. He was my marionette. Paul of Tarsus was a buffoun. Paul was evil, he was my conquerer. Paul of Tarsus was the devil. He was satan. he was real. he laughs at you for your belief chistianity isn't real. its a false god.jesus didn't die foryou. jesus didn't die. he lived. jesus lived. none of you christians are saved from anything. you doomed. christians are doomed forever. christians are the fools of the world. i hate christians. christians are fools

 

[§outh§tar]

The irony here battig1370 is that you yourself have been deceived.
I testify that the Paul you are talking of received the Spirit of God and indeed preaches the truth of God.

This is the STUPIDEST statement I have seen so far on the statement by far.

Do tell me how why you believe Paul "received the Spirit of God and indeed preaches the truth of God"? Because he said so? Oh wait, because he said so it must be true?

I tell you the truth, the clay pots that God has made he has made for His purpose and His pleasure. I pray that God opens your eyes to the murderer inside of you so that you may turn in all humility to him who is able to wipe your sin away and whose Grace declares you 'Not Guilty'. May God forgive you!

How do you know Jesus pardons man? Because somebody believed so and wrote it down? Please expound.

 

[c20H25N3o]

This is the STUPIDEST statement I have seen so far on the statement by far.

Do tell me how why you believe Paul "received the Spirit of God and indeed preaches the truth of God"? Because he said so? Oh wait, because he said so it must be true?



How do you know Jesus pardons man? Because somebody believed so and wrote it down? Please expound.

It is a matter of faith but you know that.

 

[nicoman]

Paul is a liar. Paul is the antichrist. How can anyone believe in Paul? Paul is a liar, and so is Christianity. Christianity -- of the lie.

 

[§outh§tar]

It is a matter of faith but you know that.

testify
1 a : to bear witness to : ATTEST b : to serve as evidence of : PROVE


I don't see anything about "a matter of faith" in the definition, do you? You can do neither of those things and yet you claim to testify Paul's reception of the Spirit of God..

Do tell me then, WHY do you believe because Paul claims to have recieved the Spirit, it is true?

 

[anonymous2]

Better yet, prove to me that there really was a historical Paul, and that the letters attributed to him were really from him. How many ancient writings were there and are there which were/are from some supposed figure, which Christians themselves regard as dubious or inauthetic or forgeries? Just because it's old, and written, that does not necessarily make it true. Does anyone here accept everything Homer said as completely historically factual and his religious statements as completely factual? Does anyone here accept all historical and religious statements written in Egypt in hieroglyphics to be "absolute truth"? One may say that I have an extremely doubtful attitude toward history, and if you say that, you are correct. Christians themselves admit to literary forgeries. "Paul" may have simply been a character used by ancient authors to support Christian theology.

And if someone wishes to accept "Paul" on faith, then why not some of the other alleged prophets or godmen? Why not accept Buddha on faith that he received enlightenment under the Bodhi tree? Why don't you believe Zoroaster received a revelation from Ahura Mazda? Why don't you accept the claim that Krishna resurrected a dead baby? These are "myths" or "Satanic", but yours is "truth"?

 

[c20H25N3o]

Better yet, prove to me that there really was a historical Paul, and that the letters attributed to him were really from him. How many ancient writings were there and are there which were/are from some supposed figure, which Christians themselves regard as dubious or inauthetic or forgeries? Just because it's old, and written, that does not necessarily make it true. Does anyone here accept everything Homer said as completely historically factual and his religious statements as completely factual? Does anyone here accept all historical and religious statements written in Egypt in hieroglyphics to be "absolute truth"? One may say that I have an extremely doubtful attitude toward history, and if you say that, you are correct. Christians themselves admit to literary forgeries. "Paul" may have simply been a character used by ancient authors to support Christian theology.

And if someone wishes to accept "Paul" on faith, then why not some of the other alleged prophets or godmen? Why not accept Buddha on faith that he received enlightenment under the Bodhi tree? Why don't you believe Zoroaster received a revelation from Ahura Mazda? Why don't you accept the claim that Krishna resurrected a dead baby? These are "myths" or "Satanic", but yours is "truth"?

You who ask why dont I accept this or that ... why dont you accept this or that?

 

[anonymous2]

You who ask why dont I accept this or that ... why dont you accept this or that?

Because much religion is at least partially based on power. If one claims some revelation, one can get followers based on that and establish a community which one can manipulate according to one's own will. You want money and power? Say that your religion demands the followers to give money and of themselves, to the religious organization, and then the "leaders" of such an organization can get rich and also have power over the minds of the people. If you can convince people of a religious doctrine, then you have control over their minds. That's why I highly suspect religious claims, even religious claims based on an alleged historical context. Yes, "pure unequivocal distrust" as Jenyar could say. The claim that Pharaoh or one of the Roman Emperors was god, what does that say? "Submit to god", but what was it in reality? Submitting to HUMANS, and HUMANS were the ones who created the religious mythology, right? Unless you wish to say that Pharaoh and the Roman Emperors were actually gods, or demons I guess. And people who are adept at lying, don't come out and say "I'm lying". People can seem completely sincere yet be liars. Only "stupid" liars come out and say "I'm lying", pretty much, in my opinion.

As for Paul, at least one place he seems to admit that he was crafty.. "crafty man that I am, I took you by deceit". He said he became all things to all people to get them to accept Christ. That tells me that he was a chameleon. You see it as based on a higher good. That would be what he could have CLAIMED it was, but like I said, only "stupid" liars come out and say "I'm lying".

Also, at least one of Paul's arguments seemed to be wrong to me. He said the Genesis verse referring to "seed" instead of "seeds", referred to Christ. In Hebrew, from my understanding, when human offspring is referred to, "zera" is used, which is a singular which can refer to a plural. There is no "seeds" in reference to human descendants in the Hebrew part of the Bible, from my understanding. So there was no difference between human "seed" and human "seeds" in Hebrew. How is someone inspired by God if he makes an argument based on his incorrect understanding of a word?

And all of that was assuming that there was an historical Paul, and the letters which claim to be written by him were really written by him.

Hopefully that answered your question on my viewpoint.

 

[§outh§tar]

And if someone wishes to accept "Paul" on faith, then why not some of the other alleged prophets or godmen? Why not accept Buddha on faith that he received enlightenment under the Bodhi tree? Why don't you believe Zoroaster received a revelation from Ahura Mazda? Why don't you accept the claim that Krishna resurrected a dead baby? These are "myths" or "Satanic", but yours is "truth"?

My point exactly. Any God who wants man to be that arbitrary and abandon reason that much when all he gave man was his sensibility is just plain...


Did I mention c20H25N3o answered not your question nor my question simply because he has no answer and understands just how marvelouslly arbitrary any response would seem.

Paul followed his own interpretation of Christ, remember he NEVER saw Jesus and yet claimed to have "visions" of him.

How can he possibly know he was seeing Jesus if he had never seen him before? Not to mention no one could verify these visions.. besides, doesn't Satan alledgedly masquerade as an angel of light?

 

[c20H25N3o]

This is the STUPIDEST statement I have seen so far on the statement by far.

Do tell me how why you believe Paul "received the Spirit of God and indeed preaches the truth of God"? Because he said so? Oh wait, because he said so it must be true?



How do you know Jesus pardons man? Because somebody believed so and wrote it down? Please expound.

Jesus said "Father forgive them for they know not what they do"

I know this to be true because God is love. If God was ever gonna be anything worth having in your life, He had to be 'love' didnt he? Cos we all know that love is the greatest of all. Well when I see this guy on a cross and can find no wrong in him and he is saying that, well I think to myself - well that is love aint it - dont come much greater than that!

 

[c20H25N3o]

Because much religion is at least partially based on power. If one claims some revelation, one can get followers based on that and establish a community which one can manipulate according to one's own will. You want money and power? Say that your religion demands the followers to give money and of themselves, to the religious organization, and then the "leaders" of such an organization can get rich and also have power over the minds of the people. If you can convince people of a religious doctrine, then you have control over their minds. That's why I highly suspect religious claims, even religious claims based on an alleged historical context. Yes, "pure unequivocal distrust" as Jenyar could say. The claim that Pharaoh or one of the Roman Emperors was god, what does that say? "Submit to god", but what was it in reality? Submitting to HUMANS, and HUMANS were the ones who created the religious mythology, right? Unless you wish to say that Pharaoh and the Roman Emperors were actually gods, or demons I guess. And people who are adept at lying, don't come out and say "I'm lying". People can seem completely sincere yet be liars. Only "stupid" liars come out and say "I'm lying", pretty much, in my opinion.

As for Paul, at least one place he seems to admit that he was crafty.. "crafty man that I am, I took you by deceit". He said he became all things to all people to get them to accept Christ. That tells me that he was a chameleon. You see it as based on a higher good. That would be what he could have CLAIMED it was, but like I said, only "stupid" liars come out and say "I'm lying".

Also, at least one of Paul's arguments seemed to be wrong to me. He said the Genesis verse referring to "seed" instead of "seeds", referred to Christ. In Hebrew, from my understanding, when human offspring is referred to, "zera" is used, which is a singular which can refer to a plural. There is no "seeds" in reference to human descendants in the Hebrew part of the Bible, from my understanding. So there was no difference between human "seed" and human "seeds" in Hebrew. How is someone inspired by God if he makes an argument based on his incorrect understanding of a word?

And all of that was assuming that there was an historical Paul, and the letters which claim to be written by him were really written by him.

Hopefully that answered your question on my viewpoint.

Look it is all confusion to you because you do not 'believe'. You do actually need that seed of faith before you will ever see the leaves on the branches of the tree from the seed.
I know you despise religion and its power base and hypocrisy. Jesus agreed with you! He called those hypocrites "A brood of vipers" so that you may know where the judgement lay!
Surely whoever is for you cannot be against you!

 

[anonymous2]

Look it is all confusion to you because you do not 'believe'. You do actually need that seed of faith before you will ever see the leaves on the branches of the tree from the seed.
I know you despise religion and its power base and hypocrisy. Jesus agreed with you! He called those hypocrites "A brood of vipers" so that you may know where the judgement lay!
Surely whoever is for you cannot be against you!

That's the thing though. I used to "believe" when I was younger. How can I get a lobotomy and return to that state of mind and just "believe it all"? If you can tell me how to do it, I'd like to know. I can't even find it in myself to have the faith of a mustard seed. As for religion, I don't despise religion per se, I just have problems with some aspects of religion.

 

[§outh§tar]

Jesus said "Father forgive them for they know not what they do"

I know this to be true because God is love. If God was ever gonna be anything worth having in your life, He had to be 'love' didnt he? Cos we all know that love is the greatest of all. Well when I see this guy on a cross and can find no wrong in him and he is saying that, well I think to myself - well that is love aint it - dont come much greater than that!

For once in your life, can you actually address my comments instead of going off on tangents..?

You believe that Jesus died on the cross without sin because somebody said so and wrote it down. Why do you believe that this person was telling the truth when they said Jesus was sinless? Is it not their personal interpretation they were writing down? Why do you then put your heart and soul into someone else's interpretation?

 

[c20H25N3o]

For once in your life, can you actually address my comments instead of going off on tangents..?

You believe that Jesus died on the cross without sin because somebody said so and wrote it down. Why do you believe that this person was telling the truth when they said Jesus was sinless? Is it not their personal interpretation they were writing down? Why do you then put your heart and soul into someone else's interpretation?

Ok. I will try and explain it. Some time ago I didnt believe in nothing. Probably much like yourself, I dont know. Then some Christians said "Hey m8, why dont you take all that doubt and stuff and just give it to Jesus and see what goes down?"
So I did, and I was blown over by a Wind from above that I cannot describe. They caught me ( the two Christians) and let me to the ground where I lay. As I lay there I went through an incredible set of thoughts, emotions, feelings and 'knew' that I was being washed in 'blood'. I knew that I had been visited by something incredibly 'holy'. This had nothing to do with 'drugs' by the way before that old chesnut comes out. I went from being an unbeliever to a believer. I believe I have received the Holy Spirit because I 'know' that. The bible just affirms what I already believed. You may note that I rarely quote all the wonderful passages that others more scholared than me quote. This is because I rarely read the bible. God's Spirit in me is sufficient to know the truth about God.

peace

c20 :m:

 

[c20H25N3o]

As for religion, I don't despise religion per se, I just have problems with some aspects of religion.

Me too. I dont despise people beliefs. It's when those beliefs are used to justify 'wickedness' that I have a problem but it is with those people that actually commit the wickedness that I have a problem with. I dont have a problem with the religion that they are using as an excuse for their wickedness.
You say that you cannot 'find' a mustard seed. You are gonna struggle in the dark to find anything. What do you need? Ask and you will receive!

 

[c20H25N3o]

testify
1 a : to bear witness to : ATTEST b : to serve as evidence of : PROVE


I don't see anything about "a matter of faith" in the definition, do you? You can do neither of those things and yet you claim to testify Paul's reception of the Spirit of God..

Do tell me then, WHY do you believe because Paul claims to have recieved the Spirit, it is true?

Why? Because I have received the same Spirit! Why else?

 

[§outh§tar]

Why? Because I have received the same Spirit! Why else?

That is even INFAMOUSLY more stupid than your earlier statement.

The SAME Spirit? How do you know you have the same Spirit? By guessing? How do you know you both share the same beliefs? By extrapolating from his epistles? So now you are basing your faith on your estimates on what Paul said?

 

[c20H25N3o]

That is even INFAMOUSLY more stupid than your earlier statement.

The SAME Spirit? How do you know you have the same Spirit? By guessing?

Not by guessing but by faith! Look you can ask me to prove stuff as much as you like. No one has ever seen God so I am unlikely to have a pair of magic goggles that I can give you so that you can see him.

If the fact that I cant prove God's existence makes me a lost soul with no hope as being as intelligent as the scientists then I guess that is my lot. I will have to accept that. Please, carry on.

 

[§outh§tar]

Ok. I will try and explain it. Some time ago I didnt believe in nothing. Probably much like yourself, I dont know. Then some Christians said "Hey m8, why dont you take all that doubt and stuff and just give it to Jesus and see what goes down?"
So I did, and I was blown over by a Wind from above that I cannot describe. They caught me ( the two Christians) and let me to the ground where I lay. As I lay there I went through an incredible set of thoughts, emotions, feelings and 'knew' that I was being washed in 'blood'. I knew that I had been visited by something incredibly 'holy'. This had nothing to do with 'drugs' by the way before that old chesnut comes out. I went from being an unbeliever to a believer. I believe I have received the Holy Spirit because I 'know' that. The bible just affirms what I already believed. You may note that I rarely quote all the wonderful passages that others more scholared than me quote. This is because I rarely read the bible. God's Spirit in me is sufficient to know the truth about God.


See here for something more thorough:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ed_babinski/experience.htm

peace

c20 :m:

Believe you me, I am not an idiot.

I went through the same mind blowing transformation you speak of and I really did 'pity' anyone who rejected the truth of Jesus. But I will ask you this: Are you currently aware that most if not all other religions share this same experience, NOT only Christians?

Are you aware that there are at least 20,000 different Christian denominations, missionary groups and so on who testify of this same spiritual "rejuvenation"?

Why then do you foolishly assume that Christians experience the same thing when they are so varied? Do you call Muslims who testify of this same experience liars, or do you say they are mistaken? How arbitrary can one possibly be!