Some atheists are just like religious fundamentalists

[Arioch]

These kind of atheists don't just placidly lack belief, they are angry, dismissive and occasionally rather aggressive.

And many, but not all, have very valid reasons for feeling that way about religion. Religious apologists don't help by making demonstrably false claim after demonstrably false claim either.

 

[Balerion]

Our experiences apparently have been a little different. My view is that some (not all and not the majority of) atheists do appear rather similar to religious fundamentalists. It's entirely possible for a person to be what amounts to an atheist fundamentalist. They are common on the internet.

What exactly is an atheist fundamentalist? Define that for me. Because fundamentalism is defined as a "strict or literal adherence to a set of principals." The reason it is considered dangerous among religious sects is that religious texts are very dangerous when read literally and followed strictly.

What are the principals of atheism? Is atheism principled?

Or at least they hold the opinion that the "God" position lacks credible justification. Sure, many/most atheists are pretty relaxed and simply don't believe in 'God'. I include myself in that group.

But a certain percentage of atheists do push their non-theism much further along towards broad anti-religious passion. Some atheists are as consumed by their anti-religious passion as the fundies are consumed by religious emotion. These kind of atheists don't just placidly lack belief, they are angry, dismissive and occasionally rather aggressive.

And what's wrong with that? Why should atheists be placid in their belief? You do understand that American atheists live in a country where we are surrounded by religious iconography in public space, to the point where our children are asked to pledge allegiance "under God" at school, and homosexuals are barred from the institution of marriage because of religious opposition. And this says nothing of the multicultural nightmare you find in parts of Europe.

Why on earth should atheists remain silent?

And more subtly, some atheists just seem to conceptualize religion as if it was Christianity, and Christianity as if it was a Protestant-style Biblicism. You'll find a certain kind of atheist studying their Bibles just as intently as the Christian fundies do, and reading them in the same highly literalistic way. There's a similar hostility to allegorical interpretation, a similar disinterest in non-Christian religiosity and blank incomprehension towards the Christian contemplative traditions.

I don't think that's true. I think there's an emphasis on Christianity in the US because that's the dominant religion, and the one that threatens equality. It doesn't have anything to do with people lumping all religion in with Christianity, it's simply a matter of atheists taking aim at the most prominent and hostile religions.

 

[Arioch]

it's simply a matter of atheists taking aim at the most prominent and hostile religions.

The biggest target collects the most arrows.

 

[Balerion]

The biggest target collects the most arrows.

Exactly! This is the same faith that spreads propaganda about a cancer-preventing vaccine because it "doesn't do enough to discourage sex," and wants to ban contraception. Are we supposed to just sit back and take that?

 

[Arioch]

And let's face it, what is christianity if not a big, fat target for criticism?

 

[wynn]

These kind of atheists don't just placidly lack belief, they are angry, dismissive and occasionally rather aggressive.

And many, but not all, have very valid reasons for feeling that way about religion.

There are some angry, dismissive and occasionally rather aggressive theists.
And there are some angry, dismissive and occasionally rather aggressive atheists.

Practically, there isn't really any difference between the two of them: one cannot have a civilized conversation with either.


Or do you believe that anger, dismissiveness and aggressiveness are signs of being civilized and advanced?

 

[wynn]

Yes he is biased. But unlike most people, including your good self (with apologies) he states his biases up front.

So in advance explaining and apologizing that you are about to slap a person, makes it okay to slap them?

And are you saying everyone else is dispassionate, including the religious clergy?

Certainly every person is invested in their own cause.
It's not possible to pursue something and be simultaneously dispassionate about it.

Although different people do exhibit different degrees of anger, contempt, hostility and other negative emotion in relation to those who seem to be opposed to their cause.

A fundamentalist of any kind, theist or atheist, usually harbors a lot of anger, contempt, hostility and other negative emotion in relation to those who seem to be opposed to their cause.

 

[Arioch]

@wynn --

I think that anger and whatnot are human emotions that are experienced by all humans given the "proper" stimulus(and what that stimulus is depends on the person and the circumstance). All I was saying is that there are those, like myself, who were not only lied to our entire childhood by people we're supposed to be able to trust above all others, but that they did so based on a false premise. Beyond that many of those same people then tell us that we're "less" than human or somehow worthy of scorn. And beyond even that we have many of those same people trying to force their beliefs and inchoate moral systems down our throats, by force many times. I think that we have every right to be angry.

Besides, it's not dismissiveness if we've heard the arguments hundreds(if not thousands) of times before. At that point we're merely going on precedence. In my years of debating theology and religion, I've only heard one new argument coming from the theist side of the equation.

 

[wynn]

@wynn --

I think that anger and whatnot are human emotions that are experienced by all humans given the "proper" stimulus(and what that stimulus is depends on the person and the circumstance). All I was saying is that there are those, like myself, who were not only lied to our entire childhood by people we're supposed to be able to trust above all others, but that they did so based on a false premise. Beyond that many of those same people then tell us that we're "less" than human or somehow worthy of scorn. And beyond even that we have many of those same people trying to force their beliefs and inchoate moral systems down our throats, by force many times. I think that we have every right to be angry.

Besides, it's not dismissiveness if we've heard the arguments hundreds(if not thousands) of times before. At that point we're merely going on precedence. In my years of debating theology and religion, I've only heard one new argument coming from the theist side of the equation.

Here, some people would suggest that you are attached to the wrong things, the wrong people, or for the wrong reasons ... and that the problem is, essentially, yours.

 

[Enmos]

It's not possible to pursue something and be simultaneously dispassionate about it.

That's perfectly possible. Sometimes one has to pursue something.

A fundamentalist of any kind, theist or atheist..

Please explain what a fundamentalist atheist is.

 

[wynn]

That's perfectly possible. Sometimes one has to pursue something.

Need doesn't preclude passion.

Please explain what a fundamentalist atheist is.

I said:

A fundamentalist of any kind, theist or atheist, usually harbors a lot of anger, contempt, hostility and other negative emotion in relation to those who seem to be opposed to their cause.

 

[Enmos]

Need doesn't preclude passion.

It doesn't require it either. The point is, one can pursue something without being passionate about it.

I said:

A fundamentalist of any kind, theist or atheist, usually harbors a lot of anger, contempt, hostility and other negative emotion in relation to those who seem to be opposed to their cause.

Please explain what a fundamentalist atheist is. The bold part could hardly be that definition..

 

[wynn]

It doesn't require it either. The point is, one can pursue something without being passionate about it.

That's like saying "I can go to London without going to London."

Please explain what a fundamentalist atheist is. The bold part could hardly be that definition..

Why not? I think it is accurate.

 

[Enmos]

That's like saying "I can go to London without going to London."

Not at all. I have to pursue making money in order to make a living. But I'm not passionate about it.
If you're passionate about something you want to pursue it.
If you need something you have to pursue it.

Why not? I think it is accurate.

fundamentalism
strict adherence to the fundamental principles of any set of beliefs
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fundamentalist

 

[Balerion]

A fundamentalist of any kind, theist or atheist, usually harbors a lot of anger, contempt, hostility and other negative emotion in relation to those who seem to be opposed to their cause.

Making up your own definitions now?

You, like many weak-minded people devoid of any sound argument, often mistake challenge for hostility. If I call someone's belief ludicrous, you call that response hostile. You're like Michael in the sense that you want to villainize the people who disagree with you. It's easier to say "You're being mean!" than to actually support the argument you present. I've seen you do this on numerous occasions. In fact, in just our last conversation, you turned into a four-year-old having a tantrum. That's how you behave.

You also said there was no "practical" difference between angry atheists and angry theists, which is a ridiculous statement. I suggest you think about that one again for a while.

 

[wynn]

. I suggest you think about that one again for a while.

I can't. I'm "weak-minded and devoid of any sound argument".

 

[wynn]

Not at all. I have to pursue making money in order to make a living. But I'm not passionate about it.
If you're passionate about something you want to pursue it.
If you need something you have to pursue it.

You might not be passionate about making money, but you are passionate about that which having money allows you to do. So you're still passionate about your pursuits. The only question is what exactly it is that you are passionate about.

fundamentalism
strict adherence to the fundamental principles of any set of beliefs
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fundamentalist

And how does this contradict -

A fundamentalist of any kind, theist or atheist, usually harbors a lot of anger, contempt, hostility and other negative emotion in relation to those who seem to be opposed to their cause.

-?

 

[Balerion]

I can't. I'm "weak-minded and devoid of any sound argument".

Funny how the only time you make a good point is when you repeat one of mine.

 

[Balerion]

And how does this contradict -

A fundamentalist of any kind, theist or atheist, usually harbors a lot of anger, contempt, hostility and other negative emotion in relation to those who seem to be opposed to their cause.

-?

Fundamentalism does not imply emotion. You've made that connection on your own.

And please answer the question as it was posed to you: What is a fundamentalist atheist?

 

[Grumpy]

wynn


I am not a "fundamentalist" Atheist but I am passionate about removing the idiocy and evil that religion often causes when the fundamentalist religionists force their beliefs on others. One only has to look at the Taliban in Afghanistan to see where that leads. Right now in America we have Republicans trying to roll back advances in the rights of women based on their religious views, trying to limit the access to the vote for those they consider less than American, trying to insinuate that our current President adheres to unAmerican ideologies(Islam, Communism, Socialism), trying to buy the election and the legislators in order to continue to "vote themselves rich"(or, rather, richer)at the expense of the country as a whole. They already allowed their Wall Street buddies(with the help of some Democrats)to destroy out economy(Obama still gets the blame for that, too. Even though it happened over the previous 8 years, culminating in 2008, before Obama was sworn in in 2009).
But do not confuse the passion I feel about these facts as hostility toward religion. In America you have a right to believe anything you like, to gather with others of like mind and to live your life according to those beliefs. But what you do not have a right to is to impose those beliefs on others, to expect special treatment because you subscribe to popular belief systems or to be free from criticism when your beliefs simply do not conform to reality(you deserve common courtesy and respect but your beliefs do not automatically deserve respect if you cannot logically defend them).
If I am a fundamentalist about anything, it would be the Constitution. It is not, nor will it ever be perfect but it is the foundation for our Democracy, our country and our society. There is room for your religious beliefs in it, but there are also contraints on your behavior and ability to be intolerant of the equal right of others to be free of those beliefs. It seems you are calling others fundamentalist for simply asserting those rights.

Grumpy