Simple Test for the quran

[§outh§tar]

What double post? I haven't posted here since yesterday??

 

[Bruce Wayne]

islam doesn't know names or titles, sister of ______? son of ________? Mary & Joseph claimed linage from David, so that Jesus would have been 'beth David', (House of David, not House of Aaron).

Please think, Please!!! Mary gave birth to Jesus -peace be upon hthem both, so he is her son. So he is the son of Mary, oK?? Now Mary in Arabic is Maryam. SO in Arabic he is the son of Maryam (probably in aramic too).

funny that in islam Jesus spoke at birth, while in Christianity, he was a normal male until He was baptised, His first miracle was turning water into wine at the wedding in Cana. also, if Jesus ever spoke like that, He would have really been a muslim, unfortunately for muslims, He never uttered those words, made up by Mohammad or whoever

Strange, I though christianity thaught that he was God/the son of God/part of the triunity.

Randolfo, please lay off the links and think for your self.

 

[surenderer]

As "for all time is concerned" Arabic seemes to be quite well perserved, I is actually coming back again. As "for all mankind" Muslims from all nationalities can be taught in their language in afirst stage. They can also learn Arabic. The greatest men that drawed the intricate rules of Arabic grammar are not Arabs.[/QUOTE]



Very true like i said before I've learned Arabic(i havent been muslim all my life) and the Koran is the most memorized book in the world so God seemed to know what he was doing

 

[surenderer]

Randolfo,
Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary definition of muslim:
Function: noun
Etymology: Arabic muslim, literally, one who surrenders (to God)




Please tell me that Jesus(pbuh) Moses(pbuh) etc......were not muslims....peace

 

[Bruce Wayne]

counting back, it is your second post.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I feel humbled.

lol. Wiseguy.

Truth for one.

So in order for it to be true it should be true. You are not adding anything new here.

These quotes were taken from the Muslim's book so your bone to pick is not with me. Your fellow Muslim is to blame.

If you are referring to a guy that thinks number 19 is magical, I don't think he is a Muslim. And you are to blame. You used the info as evidence. You trusted the guy. So I blame you for copy pasting without thinking.

Where does the Holy Bible say this?

"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall NOT HAVE GONE OVER THE CITIES OF ISRAEL, till the Son of man be come." Matthew 10:22

That is only one of them verses.

So I suppose you are admitting this?

No I said I have not researched the matter.

And what "mutilation of science" does the Bible commit? Funny that you wouldn't post "all" or even one of these "mutilations"..

I already mentionned two. The flood covered the entire earth and Jesus (I wrongly said it was moses) -peace be upon him- was on such a high mountain and he could see so far. Well as it truns out earth is not flat. So you can never see the entire earth from a mountain, however high it may be.

The verse includes nothing from the quote??? What are you talking about?

http://sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=37738

You said you quoted the words from 5:36. That is 5:36.

Funny, huh? There are women in the Bible who occupy important positions. But do not be fooled, the Bible is not about man, woman, or who is better.

Oh but it does. It is only that you do not really know the bible well. Southstar, I don't wanna get sucked in a discussion about christanity. It is not a challenge. And in the end you will end up with a new reinterpretation, withou any tangible result.

How convenient that you should add "lightly" to the text. I suppose beating would solve the problem, and even as you so cunningly added, "beating lightly" would be a great factor in remedying the family problem.

I did not add it. It is the translation of the meanings.

Breaking my glass house. It is unfortunate that you know little to nothing about the Bible and yet speak as if you do. The Bible claims "that man was created for God and the women was created for the man."? That is ABSOLUTELY FALSE and you had better read the Holy Scripture because the Bible does NOT say that.

Well what do you know! I knew what I was talking about.

Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything

Ephesians 5: 22-24

thx Surrenderer.​

It appears I was correct. And you didn't know your bible. I suggest you go and learn about your own religion before attacking mine.

Sorry from breaking your glass house..

Actually my bastion is next door. The one you broke was your own house.

 

[path]

Sorry for cutting to the chase but this is really the simple answer I will address some of your points when I have more time and qualify it briefly like so.

If anyone wants all the reasoning behind this read Bruce's post on page 5

Now you stated that the prescribed method of dealing with adultery was

The best of cures!

:m:

So I believe it is safe to say that a moderate muslim, such as yourself would agree that stoning is the best of cures.

The punishment of the adulterous married is heavier. Islam prescribes stoning.
Peace.

A permanent cure it most certainly is since there is no chance to misbehave when you are dead. It was just kind of funny that you used the example of a wife cheating on her husband.

So if your wife is cheating on you. You don't just beat her up as many would do. But you should talk to her first... God this faith is beautifull!!

So it is beautiful because he would talk to her first then she could be stoned? sorry I couldn't resist. I'm sure it was just a slip up on your part.


Does islam beleive in the same ten commandments as christianity?

Gotta run be back later

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Sorry for cutting to the chase but this is really the simple answer I will address some of your points when I have more time and qualify it briefly like so.

This is not cutting to the chase. This is selective reading. You try to limit the answer to that which you think would make Islam look bad and then scream fire. You should do better than that.

So I believe it is safe to say that a moderate muslim, such as yourself would agree that stoning is the best of cures.

Are you sure you read my post? Who ever said that stoning was the cure?
Path, let’s cut to the chase here, you and I both know that you want to come to saying:” look how awful Islam is, it condones stoning” Well it is not that easy. My post really answers it all. Now please drop the petty word games, you are too old for them.

So it is beautiful because he would talk to her first then she could be stoned? sorry I couldn't resist. I'm sure it was just a slip up on your part..

No one said she would be stoned. That is your prejudice playing up again. That was about a disloyal woman in general, not one that actually has had sex with other men. Again, you have not read what I wrote you only looked for the words that seemed to reiterate what you already think to know.

For what it's worth I did you the courtesy of explaining the cure although it is not part of the thread. I think that explanation suffices. Now do take your time, read it and think it over. If you have any further questions do seek professional assistance (try Islamonline.com) since I said all there was to say here and since I think my time is being wasted in responding to you.

A sincere advice; you have a lot of time on your hands. And since you are so interested in Islam, I propose you read about Islam. Not from answering-islam or proud infidels, or whatever specialized hate site, but from Muslim scholars and thinkers. Just think about it, either you agree with what they say or you will confirm that your present stance is well founded, either way you will be able to understand the way Muslims think and satisfy you curiosity.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Well actually i did answer this once but here i go again ,


"Whichever Ayah We relinquish or cause to be forgotten We replace it with its equal or with that which is greater, did you not know that God is capable of all things?" 2:106

you don't know how weak that sounds, if you had to hear the same thing about christianity from me or the Bible, would you accept it? anyone hearing this lame excuse would laugh in your face, unless they were already brainwashed.

and tell me again that Jesus(...) Moses(...) etc..... werent muslims tell me again that they BY DEFINITION werent muslims .....

nope, they never were muslims, would have never bowed or prayed to a pagan crescent-moon god from Mecca. by DEFINATION they were both JEWISH. so shalom, l'chaim & mozal tov!

peace to you

 

[surenderer]

you don't know how weak that sounds, if you had to hear the same thing about christianity from me or the Bible, would you accept it? anyone hearing this lame excuse would laugh in your face, unless they were already brainwashed.



nope, they never were muslims, would have never bowed or prayed to a pagan crescent-moon god from Mecca. by DEFINATION they were both JEWISH. so shalom, l'chaim & mozal tov!

peace to you

lol well if you are going to quote me quote all of what i said....i showed the word ayah in three different verses meaning three different things.....sorry if you dont think that the prophets in the Bible surrendered their wills to God .....but at least you didnt try to say they were Christians....hooray for you

 

[Knife]

Randolfo, in one of your earlier posts you were hoping that muslims saw the light and found Jesus. a nice gesture. however, the way you insult other peoples beliefs really have a negative effect. it is not considered nice to insult others and their beliefs in the same way it would be rude to insult yours.

furthermore, you seem really interested in disscrediting the Quran without quoting it, you "say" the quran says this, and says that, but are not telling anyone where it says it. you also use non-muslim experts to discredit the quran and religion (southstar, you do this too). do you not understand that i can use muslim scholars to do the same with christianity, but that would get us nowhere. i thought the point here was to understand each other.

you mention science, but what about the many christians that have concurred the truth of the quran. what about the many western and far eastern scientists, that have admitted that science in the quran was well beyond its time (a main reason islam is still the fastest growing religion in the world). i am not debating what is in the quran. your post is to test it. please explain the science in the quran that took years to discover.

since you are discussing the quran, please explain the bible in the following verses (this is not meant to be sarcastic or anything, but i really would like to know the answers):

1) "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the son, but the Father." (Mark 13:32 and Matt. 24:36), doesnt god (all three) know all? here jesus himself acknowledges limitations.

2) "Verily, verily I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do..." (John 5:19). & "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which has sent me." (John 5:30). here jesus admits himself he can do nothing....nothing?! doesnt make sense, i dont get the contradiction with the statement that he is god.

3) "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matt. 27:46). now is jesus asking himself? again, doesnt make sense.

4) "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless, not as I will but as thou wilt." (Matt. 26:36). again, is he asking himself?

5) "My Father is greater than I." (John. 14:28). a clear distinction between Jesus and God.

6) "not my will but Thine be done" (Luke. 22:42). so, whose will is it?

now if you are a believer that jesus is not god, but only the son, i got more.

BUT.......the point i am trying to make is that everyone can point fingers. anyone can quote. anyone can accuse. you pick one, i can too. you pick ten, i can too. i am not here to falsify your beliefs as you are doing with others. i am here to help others understand me and hopefully i can understand them.

of course, you can always use examples of lost muslims and their actions today and say that this is what islam teaches, but be careful because the same can be said about every religion in the world, no one is safe using logic like that!

southstar, in one of the posts you raised the issue of women. why not highlight the rights of women in europe at around 600,700AD, a region that was predominantly christian. or of course we can quote the bible:

1) "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing, in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you. " (Gen. 3:16). the last few words make a very interesting quote.

2) "But any woman who prays and prophecies with her head unveiled dishonors her head - it is the same as if her head were shaven, for if a woman will not veil herself then she should cut off her hair. But if it is disgraceful for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her wear a veil. " (Corin 11:5) very interesting punishment.

3) "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak" (Corin 14:34) how many women are in violation of this?

4) "but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (Corin 11:something, i cant remember off hand). that is a new way to explain the equality between man and woman.

5) "If brothers dwell together, and one of them dies and has no son, the wife of the dead shall not be marries outside of the family to a stranger; her husband's brother shall go into her, and take her as his wife." (Deut. 25:5) does she have no choice in the matter?

again, i want point out that anyone can quote and accuse. there are many more, but this does nothing but create more hatred and contempt. i find it very difficult to read most of these posts from christians who accuse and use such harsh language. i thought jesus was supposed to represent love, forgivness, redemption, mercy, etc. you guys arent doing a very good job, of course that applies to many muslims today as well (so i kinda just kicked myself in the a**! .

anyway, interesting reading at least.
:m:

 

[path]

Sorry for letting you wait pathrick, old boy. Priorities you know and every time I try to write something more important comes along.

Let's see. Where shall I start?

Ok, the cure we mentioned before is indeed simple since it engulfs human nature. On the other hand it does have a multitude of mechanisms.

First Islam establishes that Zina/Adultery is a bad thing. It is among the 7 chief sins. It is firmly denounced as not befitting the Muslim. Off course for a pious Muslim this would be enough for him not to partake in crimes of the kind. Let alone if it was the norm in a Muslim society. Note here that sexuality is not a taboo in a Muslim society.

Civil society does the same thing, infidelity is legal grounds for divorce no earth shattering difference here.

Islam in fact doesn't say don't commit adultery, Islam says don't even approach it. That begins by, not even looking at strange women. If a Muslim man should see a woman naked, like so many are nowadays, he has no excuse. He should look away. Also there is no room for innocent”friendships, no hanging around between a single man and a single woman. As Omar-ibn-abd-al-Aziz (the grandson of Omar ibn-al-khattab) -may they both be rewarded for the many good they did- said, Don't be alone with a (stranger)woman even if it is to teach her the Qur'an.

Now there is to be no "coziness" between a woman and a man outside the prescribed limits. That is within the direct family (not cousins). This doesn't mean that a man and a woman who are not direct family can never speak to one another, after all all Muslims are brothers and sisters. It means that if they do they should in decency. Since any excess familiarity could lead to more. Off course decent intercourse is not prohibited.

It is sad that we are so imperfect isn't it but there is also a beauty to it. I have had many intimate (not sexually) female friends in my life and have greatly benefited by having them. Learning to harness your emotions and desires is a lifelong process that requires much effort. Islam takes the easy way out through isolation. Islams paranoid controlling dogma would have made me a poorer human being.

Now as all know, except the people you directly deal with society plays a huge role. Specially here in Europe and the states you can't walk the street without their being allusions to sexuality. The individual is confronted with billboards, commercials (since women are used to sell everything), (more than) half-naked women.

That sex sells doesn't go unnoticed in the west and there is constant debate and dialog regarding the ethics of it.

Many men would say they can't help but get over-excited.

Here is where there is a great deal of disagreement between our world views. Islam says "men can't help it" "they brought this upon themselves" While the west says "you are your own master" you damn well better control it or get help to. Each models gains something but sacrifices something else.

In fact, a Dutch Islam-basher had to admit in his column that he felt more at ease in Iran than in the Netherlands -in this regard off course. Off course the billboards and commercials portraying women naked or in an indecent setting are not allowed. But more so there is a dress code for men and women (they have feelings too, you know). So Islam also regulates the role of the public domain.

Indecency is subjective, I have been on a nude beach and felt NO sexual tension while other times just being in a room with fully clothed people the tension was so thick you could cut it with a knife. If you tend to believe everything is immoral or dirty then it will seem so to you. In the words of Zarathustra

"To the clean are all things clean"--thus say the people. I, however, say unto you: To the swine all things become swinish!
Therefore preach the visionaries and bowed-heads (whose hearts are also bowed down): "The world itself is a filthy monster."
For these are all unclean spirits; especially those, however, who have no peace or rest, unless they see the world FROM THE BACKSIDE--the backworldsmen!
TO THOSE do I say it to the face, although it sound unpleasantly: the world resembleth man, in that it hath a backside,--SO MUCH is true!
There is in the world much filth: SO MUCH is true! But the world itself is not therefore a filthy monster!
-Thus Spake Zarathustra

Now to sum up, slam teaches woman and man that adultery is bad. Off course this is imprinted in them. It regulates their intercourse with one another in a way that limits the temptations and the opportunities. It keeps the -in many cases- destructive public domain in check. All this would be enough to reduce adultery.

Adultery is bad in all societies only in islam is adultery sanctioned (for the man only) in the ability to make other partners into additional wives. The cost of keeping the -potentially destructive- public domain in check is to restrict free human interaction forcibly(see zarathusas quote above)

But woman and man have natural needs. These needs have to be satisfied. Islam does not see these needs as something bad, on the contrary. The Muslim is rewarded for it.

What do you get like frequent flier miles or a better seat in heaven or more virgins? what reward?

Now these needs have to be met. And therefore marriage came. The Muslim is encouraged to marry as soon as able. The Muslims are also urged to help one another to marry, especially when puberty hits. Off course if one reaches puberty in an truly Islamic community the urge for sex would not be the same as it is nowadays due to the ever expanding incentives. Now this marriage gives ample room for afore mentioned needs.

As all marriages tend to do

There a side note here. When the two married get quite old, when the man reaches his midlife crisis, I have noticed that men tend to look for youth in another mate. Now, as far as I know the bible and catholic christianity forbid the man to marry another woman. Since that is regarded adultery. They also prohibit divorce. The man is thus forced to look for it somewhere else.

Forced by who? If a man is weak he can be lead astray the challenge with giving yourself to another for life is to work through it all adversity and joy. So when a man lets his EGO get the best of him and he tries to recapture his youth with a new younger wife (a vain attempt since it will not satisfy his longings for his lost youth on anything other than a superficial level) he gets the blessings of islam.

In secular law, man and woman (9 in 10 in women France have had extramarital relationships.) either commit adultery on the side or get divorced if one of them is being too difficult about it.

Can you please give a reference for those figures?

Islam however gives the man another option. He may preserve his initial family and marry another woman. But that is another -equally beautiful- story.

Yes a beautiful story for an old horny man in the fits of mid-life crises (which we in the west see more as something to get over not reward) How beautiful is it for the wife who now fully realizes that she is insufficient, inadequate. I could not possibly convey to you how much this would hurt my wife even the thought of it makes me sad

To return to sex marriage again, Islam not only let the mates have sex it encourages it. Contrary to some other religion it doesn't say that sex is for the making of babies only. Islam says that it is for pleasure too and is thus rewarded. (When the messenger of Allah –peace be upon him- said that, a surprised man asked:” are we rewarded for that?”. The prophet replied:” Aren’t you punished if you do it outside marriage?” It is also the duty of the man and the woman, to make themselves as attractive as possible for their mates.

Isn't sex a big part of ANY marriage? Again with the rewards

There is another possible course of events possible for married couples. That is if the man or woman accuses his or her partner of committing adultery. In this case the accuser has only to swear to establish the charge. Now the accused can clear himself by swearing his innocent. This happens four times. If they both swear four times they are asked for fifth in which the accuser that Allah’s wrath is upon him if he is lying. This would again establish the guilt. But the accused will have the same option, i.e; to swear that he/she did not commit adultery and if he/she is lying than may Allah’s wrath be upon him/her. If they both swear five time, they ae separated as one of them is definably and defiantly lying.

Peace.

Sounds abit like a childrens argument rather than a law created by a supreme being don't you think.

 

[path]

This is not cutting to the chase. This is selective reading. You try to limit the answer to that which you think would make Islam look bad and then scream fire. You should do better than that.

No I asked a specific question not for a background on the islamic view of marriage and relationships

Are you sure you read my post? Who ever said that stoning was the cure?

You did, that is why I quoted you to avoid confusion.

Path, let’s cut to the chase here, you and I both know that you want to come to saying:” look how awful Islam is, it condones stoning” Well it is not that easy. My post really answers it all. Now please drop the petty word games, you are too old for them.

Your post answered more than I requested. As to word games I believe my posts are usually very short and to the point I am not masking any of my answers am I.

No one said she would be stoned. That is your prejudice playing up again. That was about a disloyal woman in general, not one that actually has had sex with other men. Again, you have not read what I wrote you only looked for the words that seemed to reiterate what you already think to know.

No but stoning is the prescribed method if you are found guilty, and it does happen, don't dance around the issue Bruce it makes it look like you are playing word games. Have some courage, give the answer, and stand by it, giving whatever explaination you need to.

For what it's worth I did you the courtesy of explaining the cure although it is not part of the thread. I think that explanation suffices. Now do take your time, read it and think it over.

Done

If you have any further questions do seek professional assistance (try Islamonline.com)

Will do

since I said all there was to say here and since I think my time is being wasted in responding to you.

Welcome to the club I will move over and you can sit next to me

A sincere advice; you have a lot of time on your hands. And since you are so interested in Islam, I propose you read about Islam. Not from answering-islam or proud infidels, or whatever specialized hate site, but from Muslim scholars and thinkers. Just think about it, either you agree with what they say or you will confirm that your present stance is well founded, either way you will be able to understand the way Muslims think and satisfy you curiosity.

Again you are accusing me Bruce I thought we got passed this. To quote you from Sufi's deviated thread

You make seem like people are persecuting you. He that questions you is filled with hate??? and you have a monopoly on love?? You know and he that uses arguments to question you is ignorant

I do read about islam Bruce and it is not all bad.

 

[Knife]

I do read about islam Bruce and it is not all bad.

hey path, i just want to thank you for this last comment. this is the attitude that leads to tolerance and understanding. the words of a true intellectual (sp?).

the same can be said for all beliefs. none of them are all bad. they are just different. if someone thinks something is not for them, then so be it. that is their choice. muslims and everyone else (no one is exempt), must understand this. isnt that what it all boils down to, choice.

we must differentiate between illusion and reality. it is illusion to think that people can be forced in to something. the reality is that people must be convinced (goes both ways of course, trying to be objective here ).

humans have the gift (or curse) of choice.

 

[path]

hey path, i just want to thank you for this last comment. this is the attitude that leads to tolerance and understanding. the words of a true intellectual (sp?).

the same can be said for all beliefs. none of them are all bad. they are just different. if someone thinks something is not for them, then so be it. that is their choice. muslims and everyone else (no one is exempt), must understand this. isnt that what it all boils down to, choice.

we must differentiate between illusion and reality. it is illusion to think that people can be forced in to something. the reality is that people must be convinced (goes both ways of course, trying to be objective here ).

humans have the gift (or curse) of choice.

Hello Knife good to see you again you haven't been here in awhile hope the wife and kids are well.

The gift of choice has quite a bit to do with the point I was trying to make above.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Randolfo, in one of your earlier posts you were hoping that muslims saw the light and found Jesus. a nice gesture. however, the way you insult other peoples beliefs really have a negative effect. it is not considered nice to insult others and their beliefs in the same way it would be rude to insult yours.

again, i want point out that anyone can quote and accuse. there are many more, but this does nothing but create more hatred and contempt. i find it very difficult to read most of these posts from christians who accuse and use such harsh language. i thought jesus was supposed to represent love, forgivness, redemption, mercy, etc. you guys arent doing a very good job, of course that applies to many muslims today as well (so i kinda just kicked myself in the a**! .

anyway, interesting reading at least.
m:

hi, let me think about your staement a bit, gotta go eat & go to Barnes & Noble. see ya later

 

[Leo Volont]

Dear Randolfo,

Simple test for the Bible -- 14 of the 27 books of the New Testament are written by a non-apostle who ostensibly never even met Jesus. If God wanted the Bible to be authentic, then Jesus would have selected Paul to be one of his disciples. They were contemporaries, weren't they? If Christ wanted paul to be an Apostle, he could have appointed him as one. Instead we have only Paul's word for his conversion. With this as the standard, we should include in the New Testament the books written by any silly pimple-faced Altar Boy, whose credentials are at least as good as Paul's... except that the Altar Boys probably aren't murderers, and paul was.

 

[Judge43]

This is, probably not meant as a challenge, but I view it as a forcefull indication. Never have I heard of a single christian that memorized the bible, which is understandable considering the lmany languages that claim to have the exact word, the many versions, translations, interpretations and so on.

And you don't think that the Quran has many versions since it's been translated? Every book that is translated has different words, which usually mean the very same thing, including the Quran.

Now in Islam, all Muslims recognise one Qur'an. There are no divisions in that. This is in comformity with the Qur'an itself.

Al-Hijr (The Rocky Tract) 15: verse 9:

15:9 We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).

This perservation was achieved through the very important fact that Muslim religious scriptures were always in the hands of the people. There was no special class that had exclusive rights to it, like the christan priests for instance.

Are you for real? Your own hadiths prove the above to be wrong. Your hadiths say all other versions of the Quran were burnt at one time. The very old fragments found not long ago show a difference in the Quran you have today and the Quran they had a long time ago. There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that Islam existed before the 8th century. Islamic laws were not used before the 9th century. How would you explain this? They do have proof of this fact because they went through old court records.

So when it was written down in the life of the prophet -peace be upon him, there were many that memorized it. When Othman -may God/Allah reward him- finished the compilation that was started before him and published it. There was not objection from the thousands of Muslims that had memorized at the time. The memorization has gone through from that time to ours. Uninterupted. There are millions nowadays that memorize the Qur'an, word by word. I don't think any version of "the" bible could match that.

Your own hadiths, again, say some animals ate parts of the Quran while everyone was busy burying Mohammad. Have you read your hadiths?

A side note here. A factor that made the memorization of the Qur'an easy is the fact that it runs from large chapters and decreases steadily. This combined with fact that it is not chronological made it possible for childeren and any beginning leaner to start from the last and smallest surahs and go on learning whithout being afraid of disturbing the chronlogical sense. Also, quite amazingly the last surahs fit to be the beginning of The Book. They start with seeking refuge in God from all evils and then goes on to declare the uniqueness of God and so fort.

Or this may be reason for so many being obsessed/possessed with the Quran. What good is it doing to memorize the Quran in today's world?

One other part were the Qur'an distinct itself from the bibles is the fact that it is clear. When speaking of Himself, God says:"

AL-IKHLAS (SINCERITY) 112:

"(1) Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; (2) Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; (3) He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; (4) And there is none like unto Him."

Well, I doubt that God is anywhere near simplistic and I am not sure why anyone would expect Him to be.

As you see there is no confusion. No riddles. You don't have to ask, is he one? or maybe three? is Mary -may peace be upon her- divine? Are we like God? How? I believe that even christians believe that God does not sow confusion. By this criterium, I ask all (neutral-)atheists here, which book is best fitting to be the word of God/Allah.

If God does not sow confusion, then why isn't it absolutely clear which religion is the true religion of the world? The Bible is very complicated and there are many parts we still do not understand today, but God told us parts of the Bible would be sealed until He was ready for us to understand them, and indeed, He did just that. The Bible is full of prophecies. If we could all understand them perfectly before they happen, we would all be trying to make each one happen. Therefore, we usually do not understand them until after the prophecies pass.


P.S: It was not the Muslims that placed the surahs in any order. It was the order of the prophet -peace be upon him.[/QUOTE]

This is not what your hadiths/history says.

 

[path]

Judge it is hard to read your post because one can't see where you are speaking and where you are quoting. Just highlight what you want to quote then hit the quote icon, far right just under the [color] drop down menu. As your post stands now I would have to say you are suffering from schizophrenia

 

[surenderer]

[

If God does not sow confusion, then why isn't it absolutely clear which religion is the true religion of the world? The Bible is very complicated and there are many parts we still do not understand today, but God told us parts of the Bible would be sealed until He was ready for us to understand them, and indeed, He did just that. The Bible is full of prophecies. If we could all understand them perfectly before they happen, we would all be trying to make each one happen. Therefore, we usually do not understand them until after the prophecies pass.

Huh? thats the biggest cop-out i've heard yet

Well, I doubt that God is anywhere near simplistic and I am not sure why anyone would expect Him to be.

Well nobody except one who would believe I Corithians 14:33 Have you read YOUR Bible?

And you don't think that the Quran has many versions since it's been translated? Every book that is translated has different words, which usually mean the very same thing, including the Quran

Except the Koran isnt authentic if it is in any other language but Arabic