Sick of it all
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Medicine Woman said:
I knew all that stuff even before i became a practicing catholic.
I realized, even as a paganish student of history, that all that stuff is junk scholarship.
If all these things that falsifiers taught you are true, then explain the popularity and centrality of the Church throughout history.
Lapdog: I knew all that stuff even before i became a practicing catholic.
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M*W: And you still converted???
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Lapdog: I realized, even as a paganish student of history, that all that stuff is junk scholarship.
If all these things that falsifiers taught you are true, then explain the popularity and centrality of the Church throughout history.
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M*W: What popularity??? The Church WAS the State! The Church has a very dark history throughout the ages. People had NO CHOICE but to believe what they ordered them to believe, or they'd be burned at the stake! Even today, aside from the rampant pedophilia, it is apparent to many Catholic scholars that there is devil worship going on inside The Vatican -- right in St. Peter's. I've known this since 1978 when I was there. There is nothing you can say to convince me otherwise. I've done my homework.
Christianity is dying worldwide, except for maybe in Africa. The Church is corrupt. I believe the RCC is the "antichrist." The whole premise of the RCC is based on lies. I can't believe I was ever "caught-up" in its possession.
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M*W: And you still converted???
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Lapdog: I realized, even as a paganish student of history, that all that stuff is junk scholarship.
If all these things that falsifiers taught you are true, then explain the popularity and centrality of the Church throughout history.
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M*W: What popularity??? The Church WAS the State! The Church has a very dark history throughout the ages. People had NO CHOICE but to believe what they ordered them to believe, or they'd be burned at the stake! Even today, aside from the rampant pedophilia, it is apparent to many Catholic scholars that there is devil worship going on inside The Vatican -- right in St. Peter's. I've known this since 1978 when I was there. There is nothing you can say to convince me otherwise. I've done my homework.
Christianity is dying worldwide, except for maybe in Africa. The Church is corrupt. I believe the RCC is the "antichrist." The whole premise of the RCC is based on lies. I can't believe I was ever "caught-up" in its possession.
Medicine Woman said:
I am really glad you recovered from that fall MW.
Ok, I will not try and convince you. You know, just because the Vatican has cepisodes of corruption doesnt mean that the teachings are false.Medicine Woman said:
What did you see in 1978?
ARE YOU A SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST?Medicine Woman said:
Lapdog: Ok, I will not try and convince you. You know, just because the Vatican has cepisodes of corruption doesnt mean that the teachings are false. What did you see in 1978?
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Lapdog: ARE YOU A SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST?
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M*W: No, why would you say that?
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Lapdog: I don't see where you get that I'm a Seventh Day Adventist. I'm a recovering Catholic!
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M*W: I certainly don't believe in Seventh Day Advenistis! I'm a Recovering Catholic! Why do you ask?
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Lapdog: ARE YOU A SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST?
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M*W: No, why would you say that?
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Lapdog: I don't see where you get that I'm a Seventh Day Adventist. I'm a recovering Catholic!
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M*W: I certainly don't believe in Seventh Day Advenistis! I'm a Recovering Catholic! Why do you ask?
Lapdog: Ok, I will not try and convince you. You know, just because the Vatican has cepisodes of corruption doesnt mean that the teachings are false. What did you see in 1978?
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M*W: Those "episodes" of "corruption" prove that the RCC's teachings ARE false!
I visited Vatican City in October 1978, the first day of Pope John Paul II's coronation. We were in his first audience. I feel that I was given special privileges to be there at the time, and now that he is dead, I certainly hope for his sainthood.
What I found and felt in my soul was the enigmatic host of the Church. I prayed for the truth to be told, but I never received the truth from the RCC. There is no god. There is no savior. There is no redemption through the Church!
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M*W: Those "episodes" of "corruption" prove that the RCC's teachings ARE false!
I visited Vatican City in October 1978, the first day of Pope John Paul II's coronation. We were in his first audience. I feel that I was given special privileges to be there at the time, and now that he is dead, I certainly hope for his sainthood.
What I found and felt in my soul was the enigmatic host of the Church. I prayed for the truth to be told, but I never received the truth from the RCC. There is no god. There is no savior. There is no redemption through the Church!
Southstar said -"These days I'm busy driving stakes through the hearts of moralists and everyone who condescends nihilism."
Nihilism is below condescension.
You have to have something to form an ideal ABOUT.
Meaninglessness may be a reality, but it isn't a valid ideology.
Read Neitzsche again before you praise nihilism.
My favorite quote about nihilism -
"In the future no one will believe in anything. No one that is except the nihilists. They'll still believe in nothing."
gx jupitter-larsen
Nihilism is below condescension.
You have to have something to form an ideal ABOUT.
Meaninglessness may be a reality, but it isn't a valid ideology.
Read Neitzsche again before you praise nihilism.
My favorite quote about nihilism -
"In the future no one will believe in anything. No one that is except the nihilists. They'll still believe in nothing."
gx jupitter-larsen
Cole,
Of course, you realize, that you're not talking about Nihilism but rather it's popular stereotype.
True Nihilism is about revaluation of values. Not just throwing them away.
I really need to ressurect that murdered thread...
Anyway. Nietzsche never advocated an amoral existence. On the contrary, he advocated a very moral existence. But, rather than just accepting the morals that are handed down without questioning, Nietzsche proposed that you actually think about them. Choose them. Validate them.
What a contemptible thought that is, eh?
Of course, Nighilists give Nihilism a bad name.
(This is all off topic but I couldn't resist. I will ressurect the thread someday...)
Edit:
Oh. And Medicine Woman.
Shut the fuck up.
Water has already talked about her ex negativo approach or whatever. You know. The thing about contradicting everything you say?
And as to her stretching out her posts...
You should realize that what she's doing is trying to make them readable. Unlike your 'unique' formatting style which is a nightmare to try to wade through.
Of course, you realize, that you're not talking about Nihilism but rather it's popular stereotype.
True Nihilism is about revaluation of values. Not just throwing them away.
I really need to ressurect that murdered thread...
Anyway. Nietzsche never advocated an amoral existence. On the contrary, he advocated a very moral existence. But, rather than just accepting the morals that are handed down without questioning, Nietzsche proposed that you actually think about them. Choose them. Validate them.
What a contemptible thought that is, eh?
Of course, Nighilists give Nihilism a bad name.
(This is all off topic but I couldn't resist. I will ressurect the thread someday...)
Edit:
Oh. And Medicine Woman.
Shut the fuck up.
Water has already talked about her ex negativo approach or whatever. You know. The thing about contradicting everything you say?
And as to her stretching out her posts...
You should realize that what she's doing is trying to make them readable. Unlike your 'unique' formatting style which is a nightmare to try to wade through.
Who are the "true" nihilists?
Neitzsche would give someone a slap if they called him one, I think. Neitzsche beleived in things, or he wouldn't have been so passionate in his writing. Unless you give him the title of "enflamed reactionary", but I esteem him higher than that.
Neitzsche would give someone a slap if they called him one, I think. Neitzsche beleived in things, or he wouldn't have been so passionate in his writing. Unless you give him the title of "enflamed reactionary", but I esteem him higher than that.
neitzsche said:
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You got me on the Nietzsche thing. That's what I get for just popping in real quick.
Yeah. Nietzsche never called himself a nihilist. But, his philosophy falls square into the nihilistic category. Not that it tells people to ditch their values. But that it recommends considering your values rather than just accepting them.
A thing earned is more valuable than a thing given.
But. Nietzsche's philosophy falls prey to the same syndrome as nihilism in general. (Because it is nihilism probably...) People take the half-assed approach and just do the easy part. Throw away. They don't ever rebuild.
A good analogy would be a man who needs to build a house in a crowded urban area. Every square meter of ground is covered in ramshackle buildings. To build he must first destroy.
A 'nihilist' would just destroy and call it good. (Actually, most don't even do that. They instead talk about destroying but never even actually go that far.) A 'true' nihilist would rebuild from that initial destruction.
The key to nihilism is that it doesn't actually say that one should not have values and morals. But rather that the world does not have values and morals inherent in its construction. Man must choose his morals. Or have them chosen for him.
People mistake this to mean that there are no values and are left with nothing.
This is a mistaken interpretation. And leads to a lot of depressed kids burning black candles and cutting themselves...
Yeah. Nietzsche never called himself a nihilist. But, his philosophy falls square into the nihilistic category. Not that it tells people to ditch their values. But that it recommends considering your values rather than just accepting them.
A thing earned is more valuable than a thing given.
But. Nietzsche's philosophy falls prey to the same syndrome as nihilism in general. (Because it is nihilism probably...) People take the half-assed approach and just do the easy part. Throw away. They don't ever rebuild.
A good analogy would be a man who needs to build a house in a crowded urban area. Every square meter of ground is covered in ramshackle buildings. To build he must first destroy.
A 'nihilist' would just destroy and call it good. (Actually, most don't even do that. They instead talk about destroying but never even actually go that far.) A 'true' nihilist would rebuild from that initial destruction.
The key to nihilism is that it doesn't actually say that one should not have values and morals. But rather that the world does not have values and morals inherent in its construction. Man must choose his morals. Or have them chosen for him.
People mistake this to mean that there are no values and are left with nothing.
This is a mistaken interpretation. And leads to a lot of depressed kids burning black candles and cutting themselves...
I am still interested in reading from one of these "true nihilists", because Neitzsche was not one, and, as you probably know, was the second most misinterpreted proponent of important ideas (behind Jesus), in the world, I think.
More misinterpretations evidenced -
and
More misinterpretations evidenced -
Neitzsche said:
and
Neitzsche said:
Why do those quotes say that Nietzsche wasn't a nihilist?
For one thing, I think that Nietzsche was aware of the dangers of 'isms' and thus was not a nihilist. But, his philosophy (and even his life) advocates nihilism as I've described it. Not destroying values and ending up with nothing. That is the Will to Nothingness that he's talking about. Nihilism, as I've described it, is about Life. It's about Choosing Life. And only through Choice can one live. To blindly accept the values that are forced down your throat is the act of a dead man.
Life Chooses.
Life says Yes.
But. Perhaps there can be said to be two schools of thought on the nihilism front. Perhaps my definition is faulty. After all, more people believe in your version than mine. That must mean something. But, I still contend that nihilism is about choosing rather than denying.
But. Wait. This is all off-topic in here. I'll ressurect a nihilism thread I've murdered and this can continue in there.
Tomorrow.
For one thing, I think that Nietzsche was aware of the dangers of 'isms' and thus was not a nihilist. But, his philosophy (and even his life) advocates nihilism as I've described it. Not destroying values and ending up with nothing. That is the Will to Nothingness that he's talking about. Nihilism, as I've described it, is about Life. It's about Choosing Life. And only through Choice can one live. To blindly accept the values that are forced down your throat is the act of a dead man.
Life Chooses.
Life says Yes.
But. Perhaps there can be said to be two schools of thought on the nihilism front. Perhaps my definition is faulty. After all, more people believe in your version than mine. That must mean something. But, I still contend that nihilism is about choosing rather than denying.
But. Wait. This is all off-topic in here. I'll ressurect a nihilism thread I've murdered and this can continue in there.
Tomorrow.
I think Neitzsche was cool with nihilism destroying all meaning - to pave the way. But the higher man that he said is to come is not a nihilist, no way.
He may not have figured out how the nihilism would be overcome, but he didn't think nihilism was a goal, just a convenient pressure which would result in a higher goal.
That's what i think.
And it is off-topic, but also on-topic - "sick of it all", all this talking merely the meaningless strutting and fretting of poor players (ouch, where is my life when I need one).
He may not have figured out how the nihilism would be overcome, but he didn't think nihilism was a goal, just a convenient pressure which would result in a higher goal.
That's what i think.
And it is off-topic, but also on-topic - "sick of it all", all this talking merely the meaningless strutting and fretting of poor players (ouch, where is my life when I need one).
Medicine Woman said:
MW,
Sorry to butt in but I wanted to know if you were serious when you referred to the RCC as the antichrist...I mean, are you gonna quote Revelation scripture or what?
And I've said it before...I don't understand why you equate the RCC with God Himself. I mean, of course there is no redemption through "the church". Redemption is through rebirth in Christ Himself, and The Church are the redeemed in Christ! Being reborn and having God show Himself to you personally has nothing to do with the organization that you were once tied so tightly to. So let it go!
water,
If we want to ‘know’ whether God is with us, we must become ‘ready’ to know.
There is one scripture which God describes Himself and His creation, and that is Bhagavad Gita. Forget about ‘Indian’ or ‘hindu’, it is neither. Read it and see what you think.
It is called suppression. The idea is to destroy God in the minds of men. Few know what they are doing, but lots jump on the bandwagon because of various reasons.
Take a good look at the world we live in today, and see how things are changing, and what they are changing to.
Love
Jan Ardena.
If we want to ‘know’ whether God is with us, we must become ‘ready’ to know.
There is one scripture which God describes Himself and His creation, and that is Bhagavad Gita. Forget about ‘Indian’ or ‘hindu’, it is neither. Read it and see what you think.
It is called suppression. The idea is to destroy God in the minds of men. Few know what they are doing, but lots jump on the bandwagon because of various reasons.
Take a good look at the world we live in today, and see how things are changing, and what they are changing to.
Love
Jan Ardena.
Jan Ardena said:
This is the biggest cop-out for religions there is. Blaming God's lack of interest and involvement in our lives on us. Then, once you start trying to get ready you get all confused (because it is a lie) and then you blame yourself some more and are utterly lost. See what religions do? They make you doubt yourself. By the time you wake up, you realize that all your money is gone (God so needs that 10% {or more} to further confuse and dismay), your family has shunned you for doubting them (and God), and you are left alone. Yet, there is a silver lining. When you do wake up, you realize that you have a brain and that other humans (like in this forum) do as well. Once the fog of religion is lifted, the whole world is brighter and more appealing (except that there are still those deluded ones out there that you have to deal with). That is why it is important that you come to sci-forums to see that there are others like you. You need some support after those arrogant, smug ("you're not ready"), condescending a-holes get through with you. Believe me, they will toss you aside, too, once they realize they can't either convert you or bring you "back into the fold."
You got this one exactly right, though, Jan. God is a debilitating, paralyzing influence upon our true selves. He is a divider and a hate-monger. I plan to Destroy Him, utterly and irrevocably.
Changing? What change? Compare today to any other point in history, and tell me how things have changed. I challenge you to THINK about it, and find one thing that is really different. Oh, sorry, besides the fact that more and more people are becoming convinced of religion's inherent flaws.
Love, Cottontop3000.
P.S. Was all that too hateful? I'm sorry if I offended anybody.
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