Should women be allowed to nurse their baby on airplanes?

[Prince_James]

Bells:

I meant "don't take your shirt off, announce it to the world you're breast feeeding, then jam it down your kid's throat".

 

[Tiassa]

Suck 'em if you got 'em!

I mean honestly, what kind of sick individual can look at a baby breastfeeding and view it as being somehow sexual or pornographic? A baby is not a sexual object and just because it is breastfeeding does not automatically make it sexual.

Just blame it on Original Sin.

Really, I can't think of what could make such prudishness (general issue) or perversity (specific example) seem sensible.

 

[Bells]

Bells:

I meant "don't take your shirt off, announce it to the world you're breast feeeding, then jam it down your kid's throat".

1. Women do not take their shirts off when breastfeeding in public.

2. Women do not do as stated in 1. and then scream out "I'm about to breastfeed".

3. Women do not do 1. and 2. and then 'jam it down' the child's throat. Doing so could result in suffocation of the child.

I have never seen a single woman do as you have claimed PJ. Speak honestly now. Have you ever seen a woman in a shopping centre or out anywhere in public strip off completely before breastfeeding? Because I can assure you, I never have.

 

[redarmy11]

They're just boobies. Get over it. Shall we ban topless beaches as well? Is it ok to publicly disrobe in order to catch skin cancer but not to feed a screaming, hungry child? What should a mum in that situation do - put tape over the kids mouth? Tell it to stop being such a baby and wait 'til it gets home? Christ, men can be so childish sometimes.






Heh heh. I said 'boobies'.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

They cry and wake everyone up,

On two long distance flights back to back, my son cried two times. Once during a takeoff and once during a landing. That totalled 5 minutes.

they can't use seatbelts,

Actually they do have a special seatbelt extension. Therefore they can use seatbelts.

their immune systems are weak,

No, they are actually surprisingly resilient. Especially when the baby is breastfed. My 9+ month old son hasn't been sick yet. During last weeks stomach flu bout in the household he was the only one who managed to ignore the existence of the local epidemic. And often babies burn through a disease quicker than adults.

and the strollers are awkward to use and store in a plane.

Actually strollers are put in the bagage compartment.


In conclusion, please do in the future use real facts to support your small minded views regarding your distorted opinion on breastfeeding.

-------------

From the article:

Gillette took the window seat in the second-to-last row, she says, and her husband took the aisle. She began nursing River, using one hand to hold her shirt closed. She says: "I was not exposed."

But the flight attendant approached, tried to hand her a blanket and asked her to cover herself, she recalls. "You're offending me," Gillette quotes the woman as saying.

"I'm not doing anything wrong and I will not cover up," Gillette says she said in response.

The woman was sitting in a window seat. She was flanked by her husband in the aisle seat. She used one hand to hold her shirt closed. The were sitting almost in the last row.

What we have here is a classic example of fucked up people displaying their fucked up mind: the flight attendent. She was offended.

Nobody was forced to watch them. In fact gazing at people is rude whether they are breastfeeding or not. It is an example of a fucked up American puritan mind.

The only reasonable solution would have been to toss the flight attendent out of the airplane at high altitude. She is sick and beyond help. She should be put out of her misery.

 

[Prince_James]

Bells:

You'd be surprised how absurd people can be sometimes.

 

[Athelwulf]

Are men allowed to masturbate on airplanes?

Is breastfeeding a sexual function conducted purely for one's sexual gratification?

Don't you realize that an airplane filled with women breastfeeding could open the door to all sorts of over behavior?

Haha. An airplane filled with women breastfeeding. And I'm sure that happens all the time.

I say, let women do this, and let then use a curtain so they can have privacy.

Hm... This is an interesting idea, having a privacy curtain for people on airplanes. I wonder how reasonable this might be.

These people could perhaps make a reasonable effort to cover themselves while they breastfeed, although I don't see why they should really have to. I mean honestly, people are offended by the littlest things.

Bells:

You'd be surprised how absurd people can be sometimes.

So in other words, you got nothing?

 

[Bells]

Bells:

You'd be surprised how absurd people can be sometimes.

Reading through this post, yes people can be absurd.

After all, how absurd is it to view breastfeeding as being somehow sexual or pornographic or likening it to masturbation.. How absurd is it to say that women somehow 'rip their clothes off in public and announce they're about to breastfeed before jamming down the baby's throat'..

Absurd indeed..

 

[one_raven]

Yes, women should be allowed to breastfeed where and when the child is hungry.
And yes, I think women should aim to be discreet, which the vast majority do and this woman seems to have done.

By the way, just a couple interesting side notes that this made me think of...
Did you know that many women orgasm while breast feeding?
Did you know that the sound of a crying baby can induce milk production in lactating women?
Did you know that women are infertile when lactating?

I just thought it was interesting.

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

I mean honestly, what kind of sick individual can look at a baby breastfeeding and view it as being somehow sexual or pornographic? A baby is not a sexual object and just because it is breastfeeding does not automatically make it sexual.

Ok, I see your stance as being completely unreasonable.
I would have thought there were 2 conflicting groups on this issue - those who feel it is inappropriate for mothers and babies to put on pornographic displays for men in public, and those who feel like "who cares" if some men get boners, the baby wants it's milk. Let all the babies have their bottle.
But your stance is "I'm going to get my fat titties out and have my baby suckle on them like a little deviant and if you get a boner YOU are the bad guy, nay a sick individual".
You sound like a woman who doesn't want men oggling her tattas and thinking erotic thoughts while she is feeding her baby, I don't blame you at all. My advice to you then would be to keep your voluptuous breasts inside your blouse when in the company of red blooded males.

how absurd is it to view breastfeeding as being somehow sexual or pornographic or likening it to masturbation

Absurd maybe, so is aurora borealis, tell it to quit flashing why don't you.
You complete lunatic.
The bottom line is tits cause boners, full moist suckled tits even more so.
That's a fact you need to take into consideration, from there you need to decide whether you want to give men boners while engaging in the wholesome activity of feeding your baby (forcing your baby to be an erotic performer without it's consent), or try to avoid that disturbing situation.

You want to talk about a sick individual, that would classify as a sick individual to me. The guy with the boner is a simple animal who had no say in his state of arousal.
But you are deciding to have a little duo erotic performance with your newborn child for an audience, that is really disturbing.
Whilst wanting the men to be ashamed of themself, angrily accosting them, drops of milk from your exposed breasts flicking over their stunned faces as you work yourself into a right state, jiggling, shaking and berating.
You have some nerve.

It's entirely up to you, you can puzzle and ponder over the absurdity of men all you like, they are what they are, the ball's in your court and you need to take the responsibility. You will be the cause of these unpleasant scenarios where men are becoming aroused at the sight of you feeding your baby.

Women should be allowed to do it wherever they want, but self respecting women who find the idea of turning guys on while breastfeeding to be distasteful (ie all moderately decent human beings of the female persuasion) would naturally avoid doing it in public.
I can imagine a pornstar woman, who goes bare-tits and bare-assed in public for fun all the time, could still find it immoral to breastfeed in public, because the baby is involved.
She would not be inconsistent in her views.

Don't be fooled by guys who say "it's natural and beautifull", they are the sickest perverts of all.
We're all turned on by it, I just have the decency to let you in on the secret.
I'm the guy who pulls your boob tube up after the wadrobe malfunction you're oblivious to, they snicker and stare and put their hands in their pockets, acting like everything is fine.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

blabla

Should breastfeeding be stopped because you get a boner?

1. A boner is an involuntary reaction. Did you ever actually get a boner watching a woman breastfeed? Even if you got a boner did this in any way hurt you? In case of tight pants should you really wear tight pants if you have boners so easily?

2. A boner feels good. Unless you are a masochist and like wearing tight pants.

3. Did you have to stare at a woman sitting somewhere in the back at the window shielded by her husband. You may caught a glimpse of skin in the passing. No breast was ever seen. You saw a baby feeding. But only if had stood there staring. A rude behaviour in all cultures. An undesirable behavioural pattern in most primate species: staring.

4. Did you get a boner when you saw that obese american gulping down his food? He just used that mouth an hour ago to blow someone else on the public toilet at the airport. You are staring at an instrument of sex. He is now talking to you with that sex instrument spitting old semen mixed with airport food on top of you.

5. You look at the elderly man on the other side of you. A priest. You see his hands in prayer. You are looking at a sexual instrument. He just came from the toilet where he wanked his one-eyed-snake into submission.

6. A woman gets up in front of you. You see her ass. A few hours ago she had a penis shoved up in this very ass. her pants are tight. You can see the ass line clearly. An instrument of sex. You are by your definition aroused. Throw off the airplane?

6. Did you in fact just make it up that everybody is aroused by breastfeeding? You did.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

Did you know that women are infertile when lactating?

Not true.

 

[one_raven]

Not true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactation

The chief function of lactation is to provide nutrition to the young after birth. In almost all mammals lactation, or more correctly the suckling stimulus, induces a period of infertility which serves to provide the optimal birth spacing for survival of the offspring.

Source:McNeilly, A. S. 1997. Lactation and fertility. Journal of Mammary Gland Biology and Neoplasia 2:291-298 PMID 10882312

 

[Theoryofrelativity]

Many men do get aroused by the sight of a woman breast feeding, it involves a boob afterall.

I watched a program recently about women who are still breastfeeding their 8yr olds!

One couple went to a breast feeding convention (or sponsored breast feed, something to raise awareness) and the husband confessed he 'loved ' every minute of it. All those boobs out.

men are men, desiring men to be other than men, does not make them any the less men. If you get me?

 

[Bells]

You sound like a woman who doesn't want men oggling her tattas and thinking erotic thoughts while she is feeding her baby, I don't blame you at all. My advice to you then would be to keep your voluptuous breasts inside your blouse when in the company of red blooded males.

The issue here was a woman who found it 'offensive'. Hey if you feel aroused by 'tattas', fine. You're probably aroused just thinking about it. I have a friend who's husband found himself becoming aroused when she was in labour. Now that would be one time I wouldn't think could be in any way arousing, but apparently her moans, nakedness and lying back with her legs spread got to him and he was quite embarrassed. The fact that the baby was coming out and the mess that comes with it didn't matter. That's the thing, men can be aroused by anything. Hell men don't even need to feel aroused to get a 'boner'. Now if you are aroused by women's 'tattas', do you sit there and stare and masturbate, or do you just go about whatever it was you were doing? Would you go up to her and tell her her breasts were offensive and she should get rid of them or put them away? What if women wearing silk blouses get to you? Do you stalk them and keep your hands down your pants the whole time?

The bottom line is tits cause boners, full moist suckled tits even more so.
That's a fact you need to take into consideration, from there you need to decide whether you want to give men boners while engaging in the wholesome activity of feeding your baby (forcing your baby to be an erotic performer without it's consent), or try to avoid that disturbing situation.

Hey if you want to consider a baby as a sexual object, then that's your problem and not mine.

You want to talk about a sick individual, that would classify as a sick individual to me. The guy with the boner is a simple animal who had no say in his state of arousal.
But you are deciding to have a little duo erotic performance with your newborn child for an audience, that is really disturbing.
Whilst wanting the men to be ashamed of themself, angrily accosting them, drops of milk from your exposed breasts flicking over their stunned faces as you work yourself into a right state, jiggling, shaking and berating.
You have some nerve.

Yes Lou. When I fed my son, I made sure I had stripper music playing in the background, just to make sure that those who may have been around me saw that I found it to be sooooo erotic that I wanted them to get off on it. And I ensured their arousal by wearing tassles and ripping my top off and swinging and jiggling my 'tattas' so that the milk squirted everyone in range, ripping off the rest of my clothes and dancing with a pole with the baby in my arms..

Men get erections with or without the sight of a woman's 'tattas' in front of them. Men can get an erection from anything at all or nothing at all. Now are you offended if and when you get an erection? Do you go up to whatever it was that may have caused you to get said erection and told it to stop?

Again, if you find a newborn to be a sexual object, that's your issue and not mine or anyone else's. I'd suggest you speak to someone about it.

It's entirely up to you, you can puzzle and ponder over the absurdity of men all you like, they are what they are, the ball's in your court and you need to take the responsibility. You will be the cause of these unpleasant scenarios where men are becoming aroused at the sight of you feeding your baby.

I have fed my child in front of people, and the only unpleasant scenario I've experienced was when an elderly woman came and told me that what I was doing was 'disgusting'. This was of course the same elderly lady who gave me dirty looks when my son had started crying about 3 minutes before hand. She then advised me that in her day, women did not take their children out and stayed indoors throughout their pregnancy and until the baby was old enough to stop nursing. I believe I told her to sod off and threatened to have her arrested for harrassing me and my child in a park. She hobbled away in a huff. Now was this elderly lady aroused? I doubt it. She had also berated one man just before she came at me, because this man was wearing a tank top and his nipple flashed apparently.

If you feel that a newborn is a sexual object, again that's your problem to deal with and not mine. If you find it that offensive when if and when you get aroused, again that's your problem and not mine. It's for you to deal with and not for me to starve my child. After all, which would I consider to be a priority? My child who's hungry or the puritanical prats who get offended at anything and everything? Hmmm.. yep.. my child. But let me guess, you're one of those who sits there with your mouth hanging open, with that little drop of drool falling from your lip and your hands down your pants when you even see a woman, aren't you Lou? Let alone a breastfeeding woman, but just any woman and you're like the lurking pervert who stalks women outside the public rooms at beaches.

Women should be allowed to do it wherever they want, but self respecting women who find the idea of turning guys on while breastfeeding to be distasteful (ie all moderately decent human beings of the female persuasion) would naturally avoid doing it in public.

Soooo, if I'm in a plane for example, and my child only breastfeeds, I should what? Let it starve for the duration of the journey? Nice.

As I said before, guys get turned on by anything and everything. Does that mean all life should stop because something might just turn a guy on? If a guy gets turned on by the sight of a woman breastfeeding, then he can sit there and get turned on for all I care. As I said, anything can turn a guy on. The sight of a woman in jeans can turn a guy on. Does that mean all women should stop wearing jeans? Hardly.

If you find it offensive, then look away. I mean honestly, are you that offended if you're turned on? Was the stewardess turned on by a woman hiding in the corner of her seat feeding her child while her husband blocked her from view and she was holding her shirt closed? I don't personally give a shit if you're turned on by anything. It's the prats who come up and demand you suffocate your child under a blanket because they are offended is what gets me. If my child is hungry, then my child gets fed. Simple as that. No I don't stand there and undress for all to see. Nor do I jiggle my boobs and swing them around while telling anyone around me that I'm about to breastfeed and it's now for them to get off on it.

 

[Bells]

Yes, women should be allowed to breastfeed where and when the child is hungry.
And yes, I think women should aim to be discreet, which the vast majority do and this woman seems to have done.

By the way, just a couple interesting side notes that this made me think of...
Did you know that many women orgasm while breast feeding?
Did you know that the sound of a crying baby can induce milk production in lactating women?
Did you know that women are infertile when lactating?

I just thought it was interesting.

Some women I know have said they find it sensual to breastfeed.. as in it makes them feel so womanly. Personally I was usually just relieved that the baby was eating and my breast weren't feeling as though they were about to explode.

Yes crying babies can induce milk production and does.

The notion of infertility while lactating is a bit of a myth. You need to be breastfeeding exclusively (as in no expressing or any bottle or anything else used to feed the child) and it only lasts for about a couple of months or so, and it's usually around the time that a woman who's just given birth cannot have sex anyway so it's a bit of a moot point. I'd consider the infertility aroused more from the fact that a woman who's given birth a month beforehand is not meant to have sex due to the fact she's still passing lochia from after the birth and sometimes it lasts up to 6-8 weeks or longer after the birth.

 

[spidergoat]

I don't really care. My little brother was breastfed until he was 4.

 

[Baron Max]

So ....what have we all decided?

Are we going to force people who don't want to see women breast-feed their babies to ride in the same airplane with women who breast-feed their babies?

Or are we going to force women who breast-feed to not do it on airplanes where there might be some people who object?

I mean, as I see it, one group or the other is going to have to be forced to do something that they don't want to do. What'd we do ...flip a coin?

Living in a society with large groups of humans means that we all can't agree on everything ...therefore, someone has to be forced to do what they don't want to do (or see). So .....who gets forced this time?

Baron Max

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

Hey if you want to consider a baby as a sexual object, then that's your problem and not mine.

I don't want to. That is the whole point of what I'm saying.
I'm one of the guys who looks away and says "great. Does she have to do that here? tsk *annoyed sigh*", specifically because I think it's inappropriate to consider a baby a sexual object.
Meanwhile what you're percieving as the "open minded" new age guys are going "hey it's natural and beautifull, look at the little fella there... suckin away, mmmm, yeah, you suck that titty, thirsty aren't ya? hey you spilled some, yeah lap that up, mmm *knuckle bite*".
Oh they're open minded alright, so open minded they're "cool" with getting off on infant porn.
What free spirits.

But let me guess, you're one of those who sits there with your mouth hanging open, with that little drop of drool falling from your lip and your hands down your pants when you even see a woman, aren't you Lou?

Not at all, I'll stick a 20 up a stripper's arsehole as casually as you insert coins into a parking meter.
What I won't do is give the 20 to the strippers child and say "go shove this in your mummies bum sweetheart, atta girl".
That's just inappropriate.

In all honesty you could do it in front of me, it wouldn't matter, I'd look away and think of cricket.
What bothers me, and what should bother you, is the reality that lots of guys are going to get there thrills where they can, lots of guys will just go ahead and look and have perverted fantasies while you feed your baby. Pretending to be great guys who totally don't think it's a big deal all the while, ofcourse.
What's not wrong with that?

She then advised me that in her day, women did not take their children out and stayed indoors throughout their pregnancy and until the baby was old enough to stop nursing.

That doesn't seem unreasonable.

Soooo, if I'm in a plane for example, and my child only breastfeeds, I should what? Let it starve for the duration of the journey? Nice.

Who are you, Walter Kronchite?
Why do you need to be Jetsetting around the globe during that period of your life?
Don't they give out paid maternity leave to "action news" staff members?
Is it so f-ing inconvenient to be a mother when you fall pregnant?
You're not an opossum, you don't need to go out scaling trees and foraging for food with your babies clinging desperately to your body, take it easy for christ's sake.

 

[Bells]

I don't want to. That is the whole point of what I'm saying.
I'm one of the guys who looks away and says "great. Does she have to do that here? tsk *annoyed sigh*", specifically because I think it's inappropriate to consider a baby a sexual object.
Meanwhile what you're percieving as the "open minded" new age guys are going "hey it's natural and beautifull, look at the little fella there... suckin away, mmmm, yeah, you suck that titty, thirsty aren't ya? hey you spilled some, yeah lap that up, mmm *knuckle bite*".
Oh they're open minded alright, so open minded they're "cool" with getting off on infant porn.
What free spirits.

You look away and that's that? Right? Would you walk up to the woman and tell her you were offended? I mean you could see a girl in a pair of tight jeans and say and do the same thing. Would you walk up to that girl and say 'your tight jeans offend me because it makes me think of you as a sexual object, please take them off or stop wearing them in my presence'..? I honestly do not know what a particular guy might be turned on by, nor do I really care. He could be turned on by my toe wiggling in my sandals for all I know or care. Does that mean women should cover up from head to toe with nothing showing and refuse our children what is best for them, because someone might find it a turn on? My reply to that is get stuffed basically. I didn't flash my 'tattas' when I breastfed and I doubt I will when my second is born in March. To me breastfeeding is something that is done because it is best for my child and my body produces the damn milk specifically for that purpose. Most of the time, no one knew I was breastfeeding until I had started burping the baby. How? Because I was discreet. You or anyone else doesn't like it or finds it a turn on, then deal with it. Look away and dream of England for all I care. But approach me or my child as I'm feeding him saying 'aww how natural and beautiful...' and I'll have you down on the ground with your nuts bleeding before you can even blink.

I swear, the way so many carry on, it's as though I'm committing a crime. You go to a beach and see a woman dressed in a bikini and get turned on. What do you do? Look away and say 'right', or whatever. But how do you think society would react if people started yelling at women in bikini's on the beach and telling them they were offensive? Those individuals would be told to sod off and quite rightly so. I'm not flashing myself at anyone when I breastfeed. It's what the damn breasts are for. I personally didn't find it pleasurable. It was economical and less time consuming, but it wasn't something that bought me pleasure. Believe me, feeling as though my breasts were exploding half the time was in no way pleasurable, sexual or arousing in any way shape or form. Those people who find it offensive should remember that they were probably breastfed and that accosting women who are attempting to feed their child is offensive to the mother as well as the child.

What bothers me, and what should bother you, is the reality that lots of guys are going to get there thrills where they can, lots of guys will just go ahead and look and have perverted fantasies while you feed your baby. Pretending to be great guys who totally don't think it's a big deal all the while, ofcourse.
What's not wrong with that?

What bothers me is that there are some out there who get turned on by 2 year olds in bathing suits. Does that mean children should not be allowed to wear bathing suits? As I said before, some have a foot fetish and get turned on by the sight of toes, should open toed shoes be banned because it's a worry or a bother? People look and have perverted fantasies even if a woman is not breastfeeding. So should women have their breasts removed? For goodness sake Lou, think about it, anything and everything can be considered a turn on for some and those people will have perverted fantasies regardless. You can't stop living because a few perverts are out there and I'm damned if I"m going to let my child go hungry or refuse to breastfeed because someone out there might get off on it.

Medical opinion states that breastmilk is the best thing for a child. Reason being that it is caters specifically for that particular child's needs. It gives the child what it needs when it needs it. It's balanced precisely for the child. Now either as a parent, I strive to give my child the best, or I fail as a parent because someone might get a turn on. Sure bottled milk is designed for babies, but even on the cans or containers of all baby forumula is the message written in bold "breastmilk is best for a baby". But formula, while good, caters for all children and not each child in particular. It has all the vitamins and proteins needed by children in that particular age group, but even they admit that they cannot come close to breastmilk in being as good for a child. Now I don't know about you, but as a parent, I strive on a daily basis to do what is best for him and what was best for him was breastmilk. If people don't like it, then they can simply look away. After all, if someone is offended by the sight of blood, does that mean no one should have an accident lest that individual gets offended? Or would you expect that individual to simply look away and not stare, instead of demanding that the accident victim should not bleed because they find it offensive?

That doesn't seem unreasonable.

Hey I know! How about all women get locked up in an institution away from the public until their children are 3 before being allowed to go out in public again. Or women should simply be banned from appearing in public while they are pregnant or have small children. Nooo.. not unreasonable at all..

Who are you, Walter Kronchite?
Why do you need to be Jetsetting around the globe during that period of your life?
Don't they give out paid maternity leave to "action news" staff members?
Is it so f-ing inconvenient to be a mother when you fall pregnant?
You're not an opossum, you don't need to go out scaling trees and foraging for food with your babies clinging desperately to your body, take it easy for christ's sake.

So you think women who have small babies are somehow incapacitated and should remain in bed? Period of my life?:bugeye: What do you think happens when a woman has a child?

I travelled and even went on holidays with my baby... *gasp*.. .. I continued to live life as normally as I could after my child was born.. how dare I!!..