Should the Brown's Chicken Killers get death?

Doreen said:
It is already happening out there. I don't know who is paying.
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Well if people are willing to pay to help convicts, that is a plus.

Has there ever been a movement in the US to pardon/rehab of convicts?

Especially those not accused of violent crimes? Or even those accused of violent crimes that are not prone to recividism?

Do you think committing such people as the OP to clinical care may be better than incarceration or killing?
 
discussing a multiple murderer and then bringing that up, when your viewpoint is more emotional, isnt really conducive to the discussion. i am not a hardliner about this though.

however, there are numerous threads dealing with the issue you raised.
 
Are you talking to me? I happen to believe that punishment is not only bad for the criminal, its also bad for the society. It creates a mindset bent on vengeance and revenge rather than succour and aid. If you must respond to a criminal act, why not respond in a way that assists the other rather than punishes them?
 
S.A.M. said:
Well if people are willing to pay to help convicts, that is a plus.

Has there ever been a movement in the US to pardon/rehab of convicts?

Especially those not accused of violent crimes?
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I don't see it as only helping convicts. If you have a hammer, it is best to use it as a hammer. Using your hammers as screwdrivers is poor tool use. The reasons I suggest that we get them doing whatever they are at least somewhat suited to do is not so they have a nice time, but as a defensive measure to prevent the use of them as slave labor, even is some of them deserve to be used this way. Once they are seen as a way to bypass the labor market, it hurts other workers in ways that should be avoided. I am glad if there is a side effect and these people actually learn things. I do not think their suffereing should be our goal. And if they are going to be released I think they are much more likely to act morally if they have thrived or come closer to it in their work. But those are secondary gains.

Governments put people in prisons for the wrong reasons and anything that encourages this practice - like cheap labor access by scummy businesses - is something I would like to undermine.

The drug laws, for example, are there to fund law enforcement, to increase law enforcement 'needs' and funding through taxes, to give government more incentive to enter homes and monitor certain people. It gives the war machine a home field. Cheap labor has also been a factor in creating prisoners. The South did it wonderfully and focused on African Americans.
 
Doreen said:
...Do you agree that anyone suffering rape in prison whose crime is not as serious a crime as rape should be released?
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No. You do the crime you do the time.
Doreen said:
'Fix the damn country'Can you mention a country where this worked at some point in history? Where it 'got rid of the sludge' and there was no more murder and rape?
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Sodom and Gomorrah.
 
no sam, we posted at the same time.

I happen to believe that punishment is not only bad for the criminal, its also bad for the society. It creates a mindset bent on vengeance and revenge rather than succour and aid.
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well the may be true, but it does not match up with what you posted in another thread.
 
John99 said:
no sam, we posted at the same time.

well the may be true, but it does not match up with what you posted in another thread.
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Well thats a demonstration of why I also do not think anger is a good frame of mind to be dispensing justice.:eek:

Note that my self justification and lack of remorse would not make me less culpable in a court of law
 
S.A.M. said:
Well if people are willing to pay to help convicts, that is a plus. Has there ever been a movement in the US to pardon/rehab of convicts?Especially those not accused of violent crimes? Or even those accused of violent crimes that are not prone to recividism?Do you think committing such people as the OP to clinical care may be better than incarceration or killing?
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Our former governor Ryan pardoned some death row inmates. He declared a moratorium on executions in January 2000. He commuted the sentences of other death row inmates to life in prison. Our violent crime rate has shot up since then. There is no deterrent. Criminal thugs think they can get away with murder because they do.
We do pay to help convicts. Our tax dollars go to help them in and out of prison. The recidivism rate is atrocious.
 
Then perhaps money may be better spent understanding what makes a life of crime attractive or why so many people are apparently unwilling to break the cycle.
 
Black and Hispanic males commit the most crimes. Areas around the city with low numbers of them are safer. We don't need to spend any money to figure it out. We know the problem.
 
Whats the problem? Poverty? Racial discrimination? Ghettos? Lack of parental supervision due to absent male role models? Low education? Unemployment? Peer pressure?
 
sandy said:
Yeah, I'm tired of being pc. Look where it got us. We should be like Iminajihad and fry criminals. There would be less crime, less victims, and better neighborhoods.
Jesus was not a hippie peacenik. He hated crime. Look at the money changers. And he cursed a fig tree causing it to wither just for not producing fruit. Imagine what he would do to a mass-murderer. He said murderers will NOT go to Heaven. That's the worst punishment possible.
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Yes, look where centuries of Christian thought and decision making processes have got us. Instead, we would have had less crime, less vicitms, and better neighborhoods.

Nice to see your not "pc"

(pretend christian)
 
sandy said:
I support the death penalty and eye-for-an-eye punishment. If some pervert sodomizes a child then he should be sodomized with something 10x as big as his sick-@ss rectum. If he shoots 7 innocent people then he should be shot. And he should suffer exactly as his victims did. Enough of this politically correct bs. Fix the damn country. Get rid of the sludge.
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What about if we kill an innocent person wrongly convicted? Are you in favor of that too?

To fix the country, you'd need to fix the cult that drives the country, first. It was cult thinking that got us here in the first place.
 
S.A.M. said:
Whats the problem? Poverty? Racial discrimination? Ghettos? Lack of parental supervision due to absent male role models? Low education? Unemployment? Peer pressure?
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Bad/single parents plus wrong thinking. These punks need to get their sorry @sses into church and forget about killing each other.
(Q) said:
Yes, look where centuries of Christian thought and decision making processes have got us. Instead, we would have had less crime, less vicitms, and better neighborhoods.Nice to see your not "pc" (pretend christian)
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CCR neighborhoods have low crime rates. On-fire-for-Jesus, Born-Again, true, church-going Christians commit less crime than any other demographic. My CCR hoods have zero crime. They are mostly guarded/gated and Heavenly. We keep the filth out.
 
Doreen said:
I do notice you have said nothing about whether my criticism of your cheap labor suggestion is a valid one. I keep answering your questions, but I think I will stop here.
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Of course, it is a valid one, which you would have realised if you had clicked on the links I gave Enmos, I thought you had already done so

http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2376673&postcount=21

[just found your question while re-reading the thread]
 
Doreen said:
YOu mean it was better in the old days? Which ones? And remember, the old days led to the new ones?And PC? For some the death penalty is PC.For some it is not.
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Yes. Back when criminals were actually punished instead of given light sentences if any at all. Did you see that story about the liberal judge who gave the child rapist probation? It was sick. The pervert molested the kid for 8 years starting at age 6. He gets f-ing probation!:mad: There was less crime in the old days. The 50s-70s were the best. With all the pc bs now, criminals get away with too much. Look at OJ.:(
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-story-molester-sentence-090909,0,6782548.story
 
sandy said:
CCR neighborhoods have low crime rates. On-fire-for-Jesus, Born-Again, true, church-going Christians commit less crime than any other demographic. My CCR hoods have zero crime. They are mostly guarded/gated and Heavenly. We keep the filth out.
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That clearly is a bold-faced lie, something else the "church-going Christians" appear to revel.

It is the "On-fire-for-Jesus, Born-Again, true, church-going Christians" that are the filth of the world.
 
Tiassa said:
In the broader discussion of capital punishment, those who oppose the death penalty often raise the point of revenge. And many who support the death penalty are offended by the proposition that they could be so crass. Yet for those who would insist that we who oppose the death penalty are wrong to raise the issue of retribution, I would point to the above-quoted statement, which is not, by its form and nature, unfamiliar to our experience.
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I would not deny that revenge is an important part of justice. The criminal must pay his debt to society. If possible, he must "make whole" the victim". In the case of murder, the victim can not be made whole. They are dead and rotting in the ground. Every pleasure that life might have offered has been taken from them. All that remains is the prisoner's blood debt to society for the life(s) he took.

You can also consider it from a natural rights perspective. In the state of nature (without government), men seek justice via revenge. This often leads to blood feuds as various clans strike back at one another for perceived injuries. When we join together to form a government, we give up the right to exact personal vengence and count on the government to do so.
 
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